Thank you very much I will compose my posts as I see fit
you are free of course to not read them if you find them that troubling.
A poem can always do a heart well I might add.
So you conclude I am not outraged at the loss of life...
that I am not sad and angry... how do you come to this conclusion?
is this because I can also show empathy for the person committing the crime?
It is unusual for me to do so but it is so very obvious he himself is a victim also.
I think your presumptions of me and what I think of child molesters,
DUI's or criminals preying on other human beings for their own gain,
are very telling of you.
Is seems you are assuming much of me with knowing little, wouldn't you say?
Not really good debate form... assuming of others.
You would be so very wrong in all cases / examples you have given.
Good for you that you can show empathy, you appear to have a very big heart. My question to you Pandora would be....would you show the same empathy if your grandchild or son or husband was in that theatre and was killed by this shooter?
Peace
Yes he has a mental illness, victims of his shooting spree have empathy.
It is my opinion that he is not an evil person seeking personal gratification or gain,
it is my opinion he is sick.
I would be broken by the fact that he was unable to get help before
he killed and wounded. That my loved one could have been saved if only...
I know all to well in my personal life experience that this is the cause
for so much pain and suffering ...
the inability to get help until after violence.
Pandora...
Yes he has a mental illness, victims of his shooting spree have empathy.
Is this a yes to my question that you would have empathy for the shooter if he had killed your son in that movie theatre? In your opinion he has a mental illness and is NOT evil without a proper mental evaluation done at this time. I hope you have EXPERIENCED 100's of these cases in order to come up with such a quick opinionated decision.
victims of his shooting spree have empathy.
May I ask how the hell do you know this....is this ALL of the victims or just a few? Have you heard or seen interviews of the the victims to come up with yet another opinion?
I would be broken by the fact that he was unable to get help before
he killed and wounded. That my loved one could have been saved if only...
I know all to well in my personal life experience that this is the cause
for so much pain and suffering ...
the inability to get help until after violence.
Again, how do you know he was trying to getting help...did you read that somewhere, was that info in a previous evaluation if so please produce such an eval. I think he was far more concern about getting his ammo, guns and setting his pre-plans for this shooting spree than ever having any thoughts of getting mental help.
So it appears what you might be saying there is that he has found relief from his apparent despair by going out planning and executing a killing spree in order to get the much needed mental help you feel he needs BEFORE a proper mental eval. That appears to be somewhat tragic and backwards but that's your opinion.
My experience in mental illness is just a short time working at Glenside Psychiatric Hospital just outside of Boston in Jamaica, Mass. I worked in all three wards locked (much more interesting and focused place to work...a place we worked on the worst psychiatric cases) unlocked ward and thevoluntary\involuntary ward. I hope you can follow up on a few of my concerns.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I think it is easier for people to accept this type of crime if a mental illness is involved but it leads to total stigmatisation of those with mental illnesses. Most people with untreated mental illnesses are unable to help themselves get out of bed or interact with the outside world let alone plot and carry out this type of an attack in a rational way.
I note that no one ever brings mental illness into shootings carried out in gang attacks or drive by shootings but its an automatic assumption when something like this happens it must be down to mental illness. There doesnt appear to be anything in this guys past to indicate a mental illness and the way in which the attack was plotted and carried out would seem to indicate it wasnt due to a temporary break with reality triggered by an event!
It waits to be seen what led to this and maybe he will be found to have some form of illness, but I do believe there are just some people out there who are in fact evil. He may or may not be one of them!
Perhaps. Then again, that innocent person who draws their weapon becomes more of a target for the psycho with four guns and armor. So, I'll just disagree because they are drawing attention to themselves and they are severely out-gunned. So, more of a chance than the unarmed person sitting next to them...maybe, maybe not.
Well, you presume that the main attacker here has eyes on all people at all times and, as many others have already pointed out, all the while in a dark and smoke filled environment. This whole thread is filled with suppositions like this and against this but the fact remains that if someone is able to counter an attacker on a more equal playing field, that person has a better chance than one who is on a completely unlevel playing field. In my mind, if someone had a gun they would not have been completely equal, but moreso than someone who did not.
I think it is easier for people to accept this type of crime if a mental illness is involved but it leads to total stigmatisation of those with mental illnesses. Most people with untreated mental illnesses are unable to help themselves get out of bed or interact with the outside world let alone plot and carry out this type of an attack in a rational way.
I note that no one ever brings mental illness into shootings carried out in gang attacks or drive by shootings but its an automatic assumption when something like this happens it must be down to mental illness. There doesnt appear to be anything in this guys past to indicate a mental illness and the way in which the attack was plotted and carried out would seem to indicate it wasnt due to a temporary break with reality triggered by an event!
It waits to be seen what led to this and maybe he will be found to have some form of illness, but I do believe there are just some people out there who are in fact evil. He may or may not be one of them!
Very well said - and great point about other types of shootings.
When someone is psychotic or having a break with reality, it's usually very noticeable to the people around them. Their appearance changes, they have trouble holding conversations and following through on tasks, it will come out in their writings, they often become fixated on a concern or issue, people can generally tell something seems "off." I have one student that just gets a look in her eye and her whole appearance becomes disheveled. I can tell her mental status the minute she walks in the door. In my experience professors do a pretty good job of identifying these concerns, they're often the first to notice them, and to try to connect students to services. I'm interested to see if the school has any more information on his most recent functioning. Like I said, his withdrawal from the Ph.D. program could have been evidence of his decompensation, but there's not enough information about his yet.
Post edited by comebackgirl on
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
I dindn't read most of this thread, but I think it's worth noting that the present day media has allowed the exposure of these types of events to be heard around the world. If shootings happened 100 years ago, only a certain group of people would know about it. It seems like it's more prevailant now, but that just might be because we all hear about every single case.
It is very sad and when I heard about it i was very rattled..
2003: 7/14 NJ ... 2006: 6/1 NJ, 6/3 NJ ... 2007: 8/5 IL ... 2008: 6/24 NY, 6/25 NY, 8/7 EV NJ ... 2009: 10/27 PA, 10/28 PA, 10/30 PA, 10/31 PA 2010: 5/20 NY, 5/21 NY ... 2011: 6/21 EV NY, 9/3 WI, 9/4 WI ... 2012: 9/2 PA, 9/22 GA ... 2013: 10/18 NY, 10/19 NY, 10/21 PA, 10/22 PA, 10/27 MD 2015: 9/23 NY, 9/26 NY ... 2016: 4/28 PA, 4/29 PA, 5/1 NY, 5/2 NY, 6/11 TN, 8/7 MA, 11/4 TOTD PA, 11/5 TOTD PA ... 2018: 8/10 WA 2022: 9/14 NJ ... 2024: 5/28 WA, 9/7 PA, 9/9 PA ---- http://imgur.com/a/nk0s7
Perhaps. Then again, that innocent person who draws their weapon becomes more of a target for the psycho with four guns and armor. So, I'll just disagree because they are drawing attention to themselves and they are severely out-gunned. So, more of a chance than the unarmed person sitting next to them...maybe, maybe not.
Well, you presume that the main attacker here has eyes on all people at all times and, as many others have already pointed out, all the while in a dark and smoke filled environment. This whole thread is filled with suppositions like this and against this but the fact remains that if someone is able to counter an attacker on a more equal playing field, that person has a better chance than one who is on a completely unlevel playing field. In my mind, if someone had a gun they would not have been completely equal, but moreso than someone who did not.
I get that, and it makes sense to a degree. but when assessing the factors (tear gas, chaos, four guns and body armor) involved in this shooting, I think more people with guns could've been a bad recipe..but you're right, these are all just guesses, so it doesn't really matter.
I just think there are many other factors (the problems and motives) that could be looked at before we throw MORE guns into the equation. For example: he bought an AR-15 rifle, which had been outlawed under the assault weapon ban in 1994. But that prohibition expired in 2004 and Congress, in a nod to the political clout of gun enthusiasts, did not renew it.
Even if this guy was mentally ill he would have to choose to get help. He attended multiple universities that I'm pretty sure offered some type of free health care for students. You can't make people seek help so it would be nice to keep them away from anything that can kill 100 people in a matter of minutes and be purchased legally.
This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
I re-read my posts... and I have not found anything in them that looks like a personal attack on you as a person (other than a reference to one of your posts where you make a veiled attempt at dignifying yourself as 'slightly more enlightened' than those of us who do not share the same level of compassion for the offender).
I referred to your timing, your position, and made a small tongue-in-cheek comment about your formatting (you made a similar comment earlier with your 'big letters' comment to Jose... so I had assumed comments such as these would be fair for all. No?).
Excuse- Cause... It's the same thing. Don't get stuck on semantics. A pre-meditated murder on a large scale would obviously suggest that there's something wrong with this guy... but who cares what underlying cause it might be- this act is flat out inexcusable. Not worthy of pity.
Yours was no challenge you assumed ridiculous things ... challenge ... my arse!
cause...
Make (something) happen
excuse...
Attempt to lessen the blame attaching to (a fault or offense); seek to defend or justify.
No not the same thing :fp:
what makes you think I am excusing his behavior good lord it is empathy not condoning
nor excusing.
empathy...
the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.
You didn't answer my questions about mental illness ...
Have you ever known anyone close to you with schizophrenia?
Have you seen results from the disease?
Have you seen trauma caused by the disease?
If this was a war vet would you accept his insanity better?
why?
I'll take a s tab at it.
Have you ever known anyone close to you with schizophrenia?
Have you seen results from the disease?
Have you seen trauma caused by the disease?
If this was a war vet would you accept his insanity better?
Yes, my uncle.
Yes, he was sick with that disease and never.hurt anyone physically, even while off medication.
Yes, obviously, his family was traumatized constantantly by the fact that he had this disease.
No, why in the hell would a vet with schizophrenia vs a non-vet with schizophrenia make a difference? You're not talking about ptsd here (plus a vet would never be a schizophrenic, the military doesn't allow it and would know).
Most importantly, why ate you talking about schizophrenia??? There is no indication whatsoever that he has this disease. Schizophrenic people are not lucid enough during times of mania to plan what he did. You have no idea what his motives were, but I can pretty much guarantee you that he didn't have schizophrenia.
I'd just like to inform you that plenty of people here have as much or more knowledge.of and experience with mental illness than you do, and really wish you would stop acting like you know something tha others don't. All you have that others don't here is blinders on, as per usual.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
In the wake of Aurora’s tragic ‘Dark Knight Rises' screening massacre, the entertainment industry has been abuzz with speculation and concern about the safety of moviegoers and how this could impact the theater industry long-term.
Stephen Galloway, The Hollywood Reporter’s Executive Features Editor, tells FOX411’s Pop Tarts column that incident will likely cause theater owners to debate stepping up security – which would in turn impact ticket prices, and that in turn could affect movie theater stock.
Meanwhile, Thelma Adams, Yahoo! Movies contributing editor questioned why all cinema guests can’t be “bag-checked and wanded” the same way critics and the press are prior to advanced screenings.
But such measures come at a cost, and Hollywood movie producer Mark Joseph is not convinced that cinema patrons will be willing to pay even more to see a movie, even if that does translate to an added feeling of security.
“You can never guarantee safety and movie tickets are already too high,” he said. “There will be efforts to ban costumes, check bags and increase security but in three months it will be back to normal.”
However, leading crisis management expert, Gene Grabowski of Levick Strategic Communications, argues that the latest tragedy will have a permanent effect on the once simple adventure of going to the theater.
“Parents are very concerned that their children are being frightened by news reports and so business will likely drop of for a while,” he explained. “Many theaters, especially those showing movies with violence, will be equipped with metal detectors. The major theater chains will certainly enforce these restrictions across the country in order to protect against copycat incidents and to protect against lawsuits.”
And it seems truly passionate, costume-wearing movie goers will have their cinema experience taken down a notch with the possible enforcement of a long-term no-costume policy, given that shooting suspect James Holmes reportedly wore an elaborate assassin-like outfit complete with a ballistic helmet and gas mask to the screening. He also dyed his hair red and later referred to himself as “The Joker” when taken into custody.
“We will not allow any guests into our theaters in costumes that make other guests feel uncomfortable and we will not permit face-covering masks or fake weapons inside our buildings,” Ryan Noonan, AMC Director of Public Relations, said in a statement. “If you don’t like it, they will give you a refund.”
The representative also noted that the prominent cinema chain had no plans to alter its show schedules, but are working with local law enforcement agencies, landlords and local security teams nationwide to “provide the safest environment possible for guests,” and a spokesperson for the National Association of Theater Owners concurred that members were in the process of reviewing security procedures.
“It’s not unlike the ramped-up security in schools across the country after Columbine, and the increase of security at airports after 9/11. It’s just what needs to be done right now,” Jami Philbrick, Managing Editor of movie news site iamRogue.com. “The effect this all has on the theater industry is the true question. With the advent of HD TVs, Blu-ray, Netflix and especially VOD, the theater industry was already in trouble … and this could make it worse.”
However, veteran Hollywood entertainment and pop culture reporter Scott Huver, said too many stringent changes could turn away patrons in the long-term and that clearly wouldn’t be good for the industry. “
As a nation we must be careful before being too reactionary and implementing measures that do more to impinge our personal freedoms than they do to ensure public safety,” he added. “Some things as fast and simple as a bag and coat check might be an acceptable price that patrons are willing to pay to feel more secure, but ultimately moviegoers may be more likely to accept that sometimes the bad things that occur are beyond reason and control, and attempts to guard against them aren’t worth the cost of every day liberties.”
What I'm saying is that we should be cautious about casting our opinions as fact when we have limited information at this point. It's dangerous because it adds to the stigma and it can damage the investigation and prosecution. We don't know if he was a victim of mental illness. We also don't know what the mother knew. We've heard trickles of information that people are extrapolating from, but there's been nothing concrete. I absolutely agree with you that if he is in fact mentally ill he should have access to mental health treatment and punishment for his actions. I'm not debating that. Of course I'm an advocate of better access to mental health treatment! It's sort of my livelihood I know it's astonishing, but most people who commit these acts are not psychotic. There is often some depression, but we know that doesn't spur this kind of violence. Often the biggest factor is a highly narcissistic person who suffers some sort of narcissistic wound (i.e. a romantic rejection, firing from a job, etc) who is devoid of empathy and wants to exact revenge. Sometimes that may be combined with a mental health diagnosis, but the mental illness is usually the lesser factor. Even though Seung-Hui Cho had some diagnosable mental illness, a narcissistic injury also seemed to be the triggering factor for him, even leaving a note stating "You made me do it." I've heard some info that points to that in this case, but I would definitely want to hear some more information before coming to any conclusion.
Did you have this stance with Loughner too?
My opinion is mental illness ...
just like I thought with him. He is now a diagnosed schizophrenic under forced treatment.
Sounds like comebackgirl has SCIENCE and EXPERTISE to back her up Pandora, not opinion. I think you may be out of your element in this argument. Lets see what the professionals have to say after evaluation before we judge this mans state of mind.
I am a layman giving my opinion based on life experience ...
never claimed anything different. Gee ... it's what most here are doing.
Our experience as a society is telling many of us that this man has mental problems,
just heard an expert on radio news saying the exact same. I guess that woman has expertise,
science and experience enough to give an opinion other than let's wait and see.
Yes, my uncle.
Yes, he was sick with that disease and never.hurt anyone physically, even while off medication.
Yes, obviously, his family was traumatized constantantly by the fact that he had this disease.
No, why in the hell would a vet with schizophrenia vs a non-vet with schizophrenia make a difference? You're not talking about ptsd here (plus a vet would never be a schizophrenic, the military doesn't allow it and would know).
Most importantly, why ate you talking about schizophrenia??? There is no indication whatsoever that he has this disease. Schizophrenic people are not lucid enough during times of mania to plan what he did. You have no idea what his motives were, but I can pretty much guarantee you that he didn't have schizophrenia.
I'd just like to inform you that plenty of people here have as much or more knowledge.of and experience with mental illness than you do, and really wish you would stop acting like you know something tha others don't. All you have that others don't here is blinders on, as per usual.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Lee_Loughner this guy was ....
he is now a diagnosed schizophrenic on forced treatments.
But back when he did his shooting spree this was not known and no treatment for him.
Schizophrenia presents in many ways for you to make a comment like the red bolded well
that is just not true.
Because I see how you operate. You're over on the Trayvon Martin thread doing the same thing- championing for the criminal... making them out to be the victim.
I've already said my piece in this discussion and anytime I add something to it... you go back and speak of something I've clarified for you (ie. 'semantics' with cause and excuse). I get the feeling you like to do a lot of talking and not a lot of listening.
By the way... great use of the head slapping emoticon. Again, a veiled method to hoist yourself above people without actually coming out and saying, "Oh dear. Tsk. Why do I even bother with you simple people?"
I don't think you've read many of my posts if you think I side with criminals...
just another assumption.
The thread you speak of there are very few posts of mine there.
I have not followed the case and have not sided with either the victim or the shooter.
This violence and tragedy is extremely upsetting. It's difficult to discuss a topic like this without becoming emotional but the Posting Guidelines are not suspended for difficult topics. If you find that you cannot discuss the event and topic without making personal comments at other Ten Club members here, please do not post. Limiting yourself to reading might be the way to go.
Speculation and assumptions are also understandable as people try to understand why the hell this happened. Remember that when you're discussing please.
Also, take any personal bickering to PM. It's another violation of the Posting Guidelines to post it. :nono: It's a requirement to show respect to each other in your posts here.
Thanks.
Now, my personal opinion...I always felt that someone who takes another life, unless it's self-defense or they're ordered to while in the service, is mentally unbalanced in some way. I have no idea what the precise diagnosis might be and it's probably different from case to case but normal humans don't kill each other. Simplistic? Maybe but it serves me well. Have a good week everyone and since the news is going to be on this topic constantly for a while, it might be good to not watch as much...just get updates, you know? I believe the horror of it does have an effect if watched too much.
Even if this guy was mentally ill he would have to choose to get help. He attended multiple universities that I'm pretty sure offered some type of free health care for students. You can't make people seek help so it would be nice to keep them away from anything that can kill 100 people in a matter of minutes and be purchased legally.
The nature alone of many mental illnesses keep victims from seeking help.
But loved ones can often help if there are means to do so, most especially financial.
But until violence happens towards another or towards themselves
it is very hard to get someone help and the financial expense makes it impossible for most.
Have a good week everyone and since the news is going to be on this topic constantly for a while, it might be good to not watch as much...just get updates, you know? I believe the horror of it does have an effect if watched too much.
agreed...i'll just stick to twitter updates etc...i can't handle getting into this guy's life...since it's not gonna change a thing
and kat, let's remind everyone about the foe feature...doesn't help when someone is quoted but it helps
0
g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
Have a good week everyone and since the news is going to be on this topic constantly for a while, it might be good to not watch as much...just get updates, you know? I believe the horror of it does have an effect if watched too much.
agreed...i'll just stick to twitter updates etc...i can't handle getting into this guy's life...since it's not gonna change a thing
and kat, let's remind everyone about the foe feature...doesn't help when someone is quoted but it helps
Norm, what's the foe feature.....it appears I may have a few of those?
Peace everybody.
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Have a good week everyone and since the news is going to be on this topic constantly for a while, it might be good to not watch as much...just get updates, you know? I believe the horror of it does have an effect if watched too much.
agreed...i'll just stick to twitter updates etc...i can't handle getting into this guy's life...since it's not gonna change a thing
and kat, let's remind everyone about the foe feature...doesn't help when someone is quoted but it helps
Norm, what's the foe feature.....it appears I may have a few of those?
Peace everybody.
click on the person's profile...at the top in the middle there are 2 options...add as friend and add as foe
click on the person's profile...at the top in the middle there are 2 options...add as friend and add as foe
thats why i cant read u Tim?i foe you??
no way..u are my favo around here..u are a friend...
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Even if this guy was mentally ill he would have to choose to get help. He attended multiple universities that I'm pretty sure offered some type of free health care for students. You can't make people seek help so it would be nice to keep them away from anything that can kill 100 people in a matter of minutes and be purchased legally.
The nature alone of many mental illnesses keep victims from seeking help.
But loved ones can often help if there are means to do so, most especially financial.
But until violence happens towards another or towards themselves
it is very hard to get someone help and the financial expense makes it impossible for most.
And its hard to identify sometimes, I'll bet. and if family is able to identify a person is instable, I'm sure they're often in denial about it too. However, CometoTX makes a point...maybe a canon like this AR-15 shouldnt be available to just anyone. Did you see my quote up above about the fact that the USA is unique in that we allow our civilians access to military grade weapons in some instances?
I dindn't read most of this thread, but I think it's worth noting that the present day media has allowed the exposure of these types of events to be heard around the world. If shootings happened 100 years ago, only a certain group of people would know about it. It seems like it's more prevailant now, but that just might be because we all hear about every single case.
It is very sad and when I heard about it i was very rattled..
I agree with what you're saying here about the exposure in the media. It is terrible, and it is indeed a tragedy..but the way it has been on television makes me inclined to compare it to 9/11 (insofar as the constant bombardment from news media). In regards to his mental status, anything about that at this point (as others have said) is speculation. Of course, to a layperson, he's 'crazy'. To just throw that around, though, without a diagnosis is still speculation (and again, as others have mentioned, perpetuates the stigma surrounding mental illness). However, this being said, it was obvious that it was going to be the defense argument from minute 1.
From my observations regarding this tragedy... and from reading the comments regarding as such... some people CRAVE/NEED attention, regardless of the cost.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Norm, what's the foe feature.....it appears I may have a few of those?
Peace everybody.
It's an Ignore List kind of thing. You can add someone's name to it if you feel their posts are ones that you just don't want to read anymore because they make you forget the Posting Guidelines. It's a good idea for the ol' BP too. I post on a board other than this one and I use it so my experience is better. It's up to the individual and if it's something that can help, it's a tool that's available.
From my observations regarding this tragedy... and from reading the comments regarding as such... some people CRAVE/NEED attention, regardless of the cost.
Bottom line, yes, I think so as well to an extent. Furthermore, he is reveling in it, all things considered.
Well now...this made me smile in the midst of such heaviness
just found the next line for why now u dont bitching thread :P
and yes..this is to much that happed..its really really sad
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
I'm interested to see if the school has any more information on his most recent functioning. Like I said, his withdrawal from the Ph.D. program could have been evidence of his decompensation, but there's not enough information about his yet.
Good for you that you can show empathy, you appear to have a very big heart. My question to you Pandora would be....would you show the same empathy if your grandchild or son or husband was in that theatre and was killed by this shooter?
Peace
Yes he has a mental illness, victims of his shooting spree have empathy.
It is my opinion that he is not an evil person seeking personal gratification or gain,
it is my opinion he is sick.
I would be broken by the fact that he was unable to get help before
he killed and wounded. That my loved one could have been saved if only...
I know all to well in my personal life experience that this is the cause
for so much pain and suffering ...
the inability to get help until after violence.
Yes he has a mental illness, victims of his shooting spree have empathy.
Is this a yes to my question that you would have empathy for the shooter if he had killed your son in that movie theatre? In your opinion he has a mental illness and is NOT evil without a proper mental evaluation done at this time. I hope you have EXPERIENCED 100's of these cases in order to come up with such a quick opinionated decision.
May I ask how the hell do you know this....is this ALL of the victims or just a few? Have you heard or seen interviews of the the victims to come up with yet another opinion?
I would be broken by the fact that he was unable to get help before
he killed and wounded. That my loved one could have been saved if only...
I know all to well in my personal life experience that this is the cause
for so much pain and suffering ...
the inability to get help until after violence.
Again, how do you know he was trying to getting help...did you read that somewhere, was that info in a previous evaluation if so please produce such an eval. I think he was far more concern about getting his ammo, guns and setting his pre-plans for this shooting spree than ever having any thoughts of getting mental help.
So it appears what you might be saying there is that he has found relief from his apparent despair by going out planning and executing a killing spree in order to get the much needed mental help you feel he needs BEFORE a proper mental eval. That appears to be somewhat tragic and backwards but that's your opinion.
My experience in mental illness is just a short time working at Glenside Psychiatric Hospital just outside of Boston in Jamaica, Mass. I worked in all three wards locked (much more interesting and focused place to work...a place we worked on the worst psychiatric cases) unlocked ward and thevoluntary\involuntary ward. I hope you can follow up on a few of my concerns.
Peace
How do you get from my words that he was seeking help?
I have heard his victims say they have empathy for him...
some of his victims of course not all :? and yes on TV interviews.
And no I am not saying he found relief in his actions, quite the opposite.
After working in a facility one would think you would have more knowledge
of mental illness and not apply logic to a victim of disease
who is not living in a real and logical world like the rest of us.
Comments
Pandora... Is this a yes to my question that you would have empathy for the shooter if he had killed your son in that movie theatre? In your opinion he has a mental illness and is NOT evil without a proper mental evaluation done at this time. I hope you have EXPERIENCED 100's of these cases in order to come up with such a quick opinionated decision.
May I ask how the hell do you know this....is this ALL of the victims or just a few? Have you heard or seen interviews of the the victims to come up with yet another opinion?
Again, how do you know he was trying to getting help...did you read that somewhere, was that info in a previous evaluation if so please produce such an eval. I think he was far more concern about getting his ammo, guns and setting his pre-plans for this shooting spree than ever having any thoughts of getting mental help.
So it appears what you might be saying there is that he has found relief from his apparent despair by going out planning and executing a killing spree in order to get the much needed mental help you feel he needs BEFORE a proper mental eval. That appears to be somewhat tragic and backwards but that's your opinion.
My experience in mental illness is just a short time working at Glenside Psychiatric Hospital just outside of Boston in Jamaica, Mass. I worked in all three wards locked (much more interesting and focused place to work...a place we worked on the worst psychiatric cases) unlocked ward and thevoluntary\involuntary ward. I hope you can follow up on a few of my concerns.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I note that no one ever brings mental illness into shootings carried out in gang attacks or drive by shootings but its an automatic assumption when something like this happens it must be down to mental illness. There doesnt appear to be anything in this guys past to indicate a mental illness and the way in which the attack was plotted and carried out would seem to indicate it wasnt due to a temporary break with reality triggered by an event!
It waits to be seen what led to this and maybe he will be found to have some form of illness, but I do believe there are just some people out there who are in fact evil. He may or may not be one of them!
Well, you presume that the main attacker here has eyes on all people at all times and, as many others have already pointed out, all the while in a dark and smoke filled environment. This whole thread is filled with suppositions like this and against this but the fact remains that if someone is able to counter an attacker on a more equal playing field, that person has a better chance than one who is on a completely unlevel playing field. In my mind, if someone had a gun they would not have been completely equal, but moreso than someone who did not.
When someone is psychotic or having a break with reality, it's usually very noticeable to the people around them. Their appearance changes, they have trouble holding conversations and following through on tasks, it will come out in their writings, they often become fixated on a concern or issue, people can generally tell something seems "off." I have one student that just gets a look in her eye and her whole appearance becomes disheveled. I can tell her mental status the minute she walks in the door. In my experience professors do a pretty good job of identifying these concerns, they're often the first to notice them, and to try to connect students to services. I'm interested to see if the school has any more information on his most recent functioning. Like I said, his withdrawal from the Ph.D. program could have been evidence of his decompensation, but there's not enough information about his yet.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
It is very sad and when I heard about it i was very rattled..
2010: 5/20 NY, 5/21 NY ... 2011: 6/21 EV NY, 9/3 WI, 9/4 WI ... 2012: 9/2 PA, 9/22 GA ... 2013: 10/18 NY, 10/19 NY, 10/21 PA, 10/22 PA, 10/27 MD
2015: 9/23 NY, 9/26 NY ... 2016: 4/28 PA, 4/29 PA, 5/1 NY, 5/2 NY, 6/11 TN, 8/7 MA, 11/4 TOTD PA, 11/5 TOTD PA ... 2018: 8/10 WA
2022: 9/14 NJ ... 2024: 5/28 WA, 9/7 PA, 9/9 PA ---- http://imgur.com/a/nk0s7
I get that, and it makes sense to a degree. but when assessing the factors (tear gas, chaos, four guns and body armor) involved in this shooting, I think more people with guns could've been a bad recipe..but you're right, these are all just guesses, so it doesn't really matter.
I just think there are many other factors (the problems and motives) that could be looked at before we throw MORE guns into the equation. For example: he bought an AR-15 rifle, which had been outlawed under the assault weapon ban in 1994. But that prohibition expired in 2004 and Congress, in a nod to the political clout of gun enthusiasts, did not renew it.
Have you ever known anyone close to you with schizophrenia?
Have you seen results from the disease?
Have you seen trauma caused by the disease?
If this was a war vet would you accept his insanity better?
Yes, my uncle.
Yes, he was sick with that disease and never.hurt anyone physically, even while off medication.
Yes, obviously, his family was traumatized constantantly by the fact that he had this disease.
No, why in the hell would a vet with schizophrenia vs a non-vet with schizophrenia make a difference? You're not talking about ptsd here (plus a vet would never be a schizophrenic, the military doesn't allow it and would know).
Most importantly, why ate you talking about schizophrenia??? There is no indication whatsoever that he has this disease. Schizophrenic people are not lucid enough during times of mania to plan what he did. You have no idea what his motives were, but I can pretty much guarantee you that he didn't have schizophrenia.
I'd just like to inform you that plenty of people here have as much or more knowledge.of and experience with mental illness than you do, and really wish you would stop acting like you know something tha others don't. All you have that others don't here is blinders on, as per usual.
Stephen Galloway, The Hollywood Reporter’s Executive Features Editor, tells FOX411’s Pop Tarts column that incident will likely cause theater owners to debate stepping up security – which would in turn impact ticket prices, and that in turn could affect movie theater stock.
Meanwhile, Thelma Adams, Yahoo! Movies contributing editor questioned why all cinema guests can’t be “bag-checked and wanded” the same way critics and the press are prior to advanced screenings.
But such measures come at a cost, and Hollywood movie producer Mark Joseph is not convinced that cinema patrons will be willing to pay even more to see a movie, even if that does translate to an added feeling of security.
“You can never guarantee safety and movie tickets are already too high,” he said. “There will be efforts to ban costumes, check bags and increase security but in three months it will be back to normal.”
However, leading crisis management expert, Gene Grabowski of Levick Strategic Communications, argues that the latest tragedy will have a permanent effect on the once simple adventure of going to the theater.
“Parents are very concerned that their children are being frightened by news reports and so business will likely drop of for a while,” he explained. “Many theaters, especially those showing movies with violence, will be equipped with metal detectors. The major theater chains will certainly enforce these restrictions across the country in order to protect against copycat incidents and to protect against lawsuits.”
And it seems truly passionate, costume-wearing movie goers will have their cinema experience taken down a notch with the possible enforcement of a long-term no-costume policy, given that shooting suspect James Holmes reportedly wore an elaborate assassin-like outfit complete with a ballistic helmet and gas mask to the screening. He also dyed his hair red and later referred to himself as “The Joker” when taken into custody.
“We will not allow any guests into our theaters in costumes that make other guests feel uncomfortable and we will not permit face-covering masks or fake weapons inside our buildings,” Ryan Noonan, AMC Director of Public Relations, said in a statement. “If you don’t like it, they will give you a refund.”
The representative also noted that the prominent cinema chain had no plans to alter its show schedules, but are working with local law enforcement agencies, landlords and local security teams nationwide to “provide the safest environment possible for guests,” and a spokesperson for the National Association of Theater Owners concurred that members were in the process of reviewing security procedures.
“It’s not unlike the ramped-up security in schools across the country after Columbine, and the increase of security at airports after 9/11. It’s just what needs to be done right now,” Jami Philbrick, Managing Editor of movie news site iamRogue.com. “The effect this all has on the theater industry is the true question. With the advent of HD TVs, Blu-ray, Netflix and especially VOD, the theater industry was already in trouble … and this could make it worse.”
However, veteran Hollywood entertainment and pop culture reporter Scott Huver, said too many stringent changes could turn away patrons in the long-term and that clearly wouldn’t be good for the industry. “
As a nation we must be careful before being too reactionary and implementing measures that do more to impinge our personal freedoms than they do to ensure public safety,” he added. “Some things as fast and simple as a bag and coat check might be an acceptable price that patrons are willing to pay to feel more secure, but ultimately moviegoers may be more likely to accept that sometimes the bad things that occur are beyond reason and control, and attempts to guard against them aren’t worth the cost of every day liberties.”
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/20 ... z21T4cqE9o
never claimed anything different. Gee ... it's what most here are doing.
Our experience as a society is telling many of us that this man has mental problems,
just heard an expert on radio news saying the exact same. I guess that woman has expertise,
science and experience enough to give an opinion other than let's wait and see.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Lee_Loughner this guy was ....
he is now a diagnosed schizophrenic on forced treatments.
But back when he did his shooting spree this was not known and no treatment for him.
Schizophrenia presents in many ways for you to make a comment like the red bolded well
that is just not true.
I don't think you've read many of my posts if you think I side with criminals...
just another assumption.
The thread you speak of there are very few posts of mine there.
I have not followed the case and have not sided with either the victim or the shooter.
Speculation and assumptions are also understandable as people try to understand why the hell this happened. Remember that when you're discussing please.
Also, take any personal bickering to PM. It's another violation of the Posting Guidelines to post it. :nono: It's a requirement to show respect to each other in your posts here.
Thanks.
Now, my personal opinion...I always felt that someone who takes another life, unless it's self-defense or they're ordered to while in the service, is mentally unbalanced in some way. I have no idea what the precise diagnosis might be and it's probably different from case to case but normal humans don't kill each other. Simplistic? Maybe but it serves me well. Have a good week everyone and since the news is going to be on this topic constantly for a while, it might be good to not watch as much...just get updates, you know? I believe the horror of it does have an effect if watched too much.
But loved ones can often help if there are means to do so, most especially financial.
But until violence happens towards another or towards themselves
it is very hard to get someone help and the financial expense makes it impossible for most.
agreed...i'll just stick to twitter updates etc...i can't handle getting into this guy's life...since it's not gonna change a thing
and kat, let's remind everyone about the foe feature...doesn't help when someone is quoted but it helps
Norm, what's the foe feature.....it appears I may have a few of those?
Peace everybody.
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
click on the person's profile...at the top in the middle there are 2 options...add as friend and add as foe
no way..u are my favo around here..u are a friend...
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
And its hard to identify sometimes, I'll bet. and if family is able to identify a person is instable, I'm sure they're often in denial about it too. However, CometoTX makes a point...maybe a canon like this AR-15 shouldnt be available to just anyone. Did you see my quote up above about the fact that the USA is unique in that we allow our civilians access to military grade weapons in some instances?
Exactly. This idea was also the conclusion of the Bowling for Columbine documentary
:wave:
sadly i had to use this feature...haven't had to do it since the old board
http://us.cnn.com/2012/07/23/opinion/we ... hpt=hp_bn7
Hail, Hail!!!
It's an Ignore List kind of thing. You can add someone's name to it if you feel their posts are ones that you just don't want to read anymore because they make you forget the Posting Guidelines. It's a good idea for the ol' BP too. I post on a board other than this one and I use it so my experience is better. It's up to the individual and if it's something that can help, it's a tool that's available.
and yes..this is to much that happed..its really really sad
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
How do you get from my words that he was seeking help?
I have heard his victims say they have empathy for him...
some of his victims of course not all :? and yes on TV interviews.
And no I am not saying he found relief in his actions, quite the opposite.
After working in a facility one would think you would have more knowledge
of mental illness and not apply logic to a victim of disease
who is not living in a real and logical world like the rest of us.