I'm laughing when people think that because he had body armor on that shooting him was futile. It'd still be like getting slugged in the chest full swing with a sledgehammer. Maybe not enough to kill him but rest assured he'd go down. It's not like he was bullet proof.
I own many guns, never have I remotely been inclined to use them against a person. However if someone entered my house illegally and was intent on doing harm I surely would not think twice about defending my family.
Gun-free zones don't work, they only allow someone intent on harming others the ability to go about that business without obstruction.
Well, I thought putting it into perspective of one person with head to toe body armor, tear gas, four guns, and the element of surprise CLEARLY gives him the upper hand over someone who has zero armor, has their gun in their pocket with the safety on, and is enjoying a movie in the dark. If I had to bet on one, I'd give the guy with the armor the upper hand. :?
And furthermore, there are many, many people who would agree that returning fire in this instance could be more dangerous for other by standards. I'm not saying its impossible, but you might have watched too many movies if you think the hero has a level playing field against a cold blooded, well planned psycho.
He fired a warning shot into the ceiling and just stood there with the tear gas in his hand. People were quoted saying that they thought it was part of the movie!
WHAT MOVIE HAS ANYONE GONE TO THAT THERE ARE EXTRA THEATRICS?
He could have been stopped, but the company decided that it was more important to disarm the law abiding citizens.
Norm, what's the foe feature.....it appears I may have a few of those?
Peace everybody.
It's an Ignore List kind of thing. You can add someone's name to it if you feel their posts are ones that you just don't want to read anymore because they make you forget the Posting Guidelines. It's a good idea for the ol' BP too. I post on a board other than this one and I use it so my experience is better. It's up to the individual and if it's something that can help, it's a tool that's available.
one can also flat out block certain folk from pms, i use this feature myself. i have never used the foe feature. i suppose it's something to think about, however, who doesn't enjoy reading/trading heated messages?
Norm, what's the foe feature.....it appears I may have a few of those?
Peace everybody.
It's an Ignore List kind of thing. You can add someone's name to it if you feel their posts are ones that you just don't want to read anymore because they make you forget the Posting Guidelines. It's a good idea for the ol' BP too. I post on a board other than this one and I use it so my experience is better. It's up to the individual and if it's something that can help, it's a tool that's available.
one can also flat out block certain folk from pms, i use this feature myself. i have never used the foe feature. i suppose it's something to think about, however, who doesn't enjoy reading/trading heated messages?
I am a layman giving my opinion based on life experience ...
never claimed anything different. Gee ... it's what most here are doing.
Our experience as a society is telling many of us that this man has mental problems,
just heard an expert on radio news saying the exact same. I guess that woman has expertise,
science and experience enough to give an opinion other than let's wait and see.
Unless this expert assessed him directly or has read his evals, all she can do is speculate. Other experts are warning not to jump to conclusions, and point to the mistakes made with Columbine in assuming too much without any facts to support the opinions.
I'm laughing when people think that because he had body armor on that shooting him was futile. It'd still be like getting slugged in the chest full swing with a sledgehammer. Maybe not enough to kill him but rest assured he'd go down. It's not like he was bullet proof.
I own many guns, never have I remotely been inclined to use them against a person. However if someone entered my house illegally and was intent on doing harm I surely would not think twice about defending my family.
Gun-free zones don't work, they only allow someone intent on harming others the ability to go about that business without obstruction.
Well, I thought putting it into perspective of one person with head to toe body armor, tear gas, four guns, and the element of surprise CLEARLY gives him the upper hand over someone who has zero armor, has their gun in their pocket with the safety on, and is enjoying a movie in the dark. If I had to bet on one, I'd give the guy with the armor the upper hand. :?
And furthermore, there are many, many people who would agree that returning fire in this instance could be more dangerous for other by standards. I'm not saying its impossible, but you might have watched too many movies if you think the hero has a level playing field against a cold blooded, well planned psycho.
He fired a warning shot into the ceiling and just stood there with the tear gas in his hand. People were quoted saying that they thought it was part of the movie!
WHAT MOVIE HAS ANYONE GONE TO THAT THERE ARE EXTRA THEATRICS?
He could have been stopped, but the company decided that it was more important to disarm the law abiding citizens.
a lot of judging of the victims from someone who wasn't there
I give up. All Americans should have and pack as many guns as they want, wherever they want. :? We have no hope. :fp:
oh boy.....can shoot an helicopter down???i guess people buy it for "protection" :roll:
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold were both forced to speak with counselors and therapists as part of their court ordered probation.
Like I said day 1 it's not an either or situation. We can do our best to provide mental health to those who need it AND keep weapons of mass destruction out of the hands of civilians.
This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
I am a layman giving my opinion based on life experience ...
never claimed anything different. Gee ... it's what most here are doing.
Our experience as a society is telling many of us that this man has mental problems,
just heard an expert on radio news saying the exact same. I guess that woman has expertise,
science and experience enough to give an opinion other than let's wait and see.
Unless this expert assessed him directly or has read his evals, all she can do is speculate. Other experts are warning not to jump to conclusions, and point to the mistakes made with Columbine in assuming too much without any facts to support the opinions.
We have that everywhere and even in most of the threads here. Speculation a natural bi product
of life experiences as are our opinions. She was put on the radio to speculate. Most comments
here on this thread are judgmental speculation.
I'm certainly not alone in thinking he has a mental illness... turn the TV/ radio on,
I'm addressing the fact if help was more readily available this could have been avoided.
...or maybe it's less of a gun problem and more of a problem with our society.
This is what I think.
Exactly. This idea was also the conclusion of the Bowling for Columbine documentary
I feel the same way. Maybe more of a problem of an individualistic society versus a collective society. Perhaps if we felt a sense of community and a need to support, protect and nurture each other, not just our own immediate friends and family, then perhaps we wouldn't feel the need to have to defend ourselves from each other.
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I'm certainly not alone in thinking he has a mental illness... turn the TV/ radio on,
I'm addressing the fact if help was more readily available this could have been avoided.
Even if help was 'available', that doesn't mean that he would have fallen into the hands of a mental health professional. I'm not following it very closely at this point, but, last I heard his performance was in the top 5 of his class before he withdrew. He was in his 20s (not 6, under close scrutiny)..antisocial...very smart. Maybe some have an issue with you defending his actions as a mentally ill person when that is not verified.
(sorry...not 'defending' but 'empathizing'.)
he looks like a guy who knows he cracked and and is going to pay for his crimes with his life,can you all imagine having to defend this guy knowing what he did and is capable of doing it again if you get him off and into a syc ward ?
I am a layman giving my opinion based on life experience ...
never claimed anything different. Gee ... it's what most here are doing.
Our experience as a society is telling many of us that this man has mental problems,
just heard an expert on radio news saying the exact same. I guess that woman has expertise,
science and experience enough to give an opinion other than let's wait and see.
Unless this expert assessed him directly or has read his evals, all she can do is speculate. Other experts are warning not to jump to conclusions, and point to the mistakes made with Columbine in assuming too much without any facts to support the opinions.
We have that everywhere and even in most of the threads here. Speculation a natural bi product
of life experiences as are our opinions. She was put on the radio to speculate. Most comments
here on this thread are judgmental speculation.
I'm certainly not alone in thinking he has a mental illness... turn the TV/ radio on,
I'm addressing the fact if help was more readily available this could have been avoided.
Well as I said earlier there is a danger in presenting opinions as facts. Of course it makes sense to try to understand why this happened and make sense of it. That's a very human thing to do. What is dangerous is to state that someone is mentally ill when there is not any evidence to support that at this time. I'm sure help was readily available to him. He's probably one of the lucky ones in that regard. Most students can use the school counseling center free of charge. Whether or not they are willing to do it is a whole other ball game.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
However, CometoTX makes a point...maybe a canon like this AR-15 shouldnt be available to just anyone. Did you see my quote up above about the fact that the USA is unique in that we allow our civilians access to military grade weapons in some instances?
What weapons out of a normal semi-auto pistol does the public have access to that the military uses on a regular basis?
why does a person gotta be mentally ill to do acts like this? why can't the guy be a stone cold killer? i view it like this... he wanted to be in a live full on video game where he was fully in charge. he does not care if he murders everyone in his path because he does not give a fuck. he is not some victim of society where he fell through the cracks...no!
he is a calculating. he is outrageous. he is seeking unreal/huge attention.
i say our president of the united states go visit with this guy. i say that barak obama tell him as follows.
you are getting almost zero publicity. no one is going to remember your name. you are going to work so fucking hard in unreal heat & cold that you will wish & pray you were not alive. but we will not allow such nonsense. you are going to be awake some 20 hrs a day for the rest of your natural days. you are crushing rock and digging ditching in 104 degree weather. you are not an interesting guy! you are a sick fuck!
not one single person will ever make a movie or write a book about your tales ever as long as i can stop it!
as a country we are uniting like none other. your days of joy & pleasure are shut the fuck down from here on out.
i hope you like basic nutrition because fine dining is over. snack time is over. your favorite meals are unavaliable. ice cold water after working all day long? no. you get room temperature water. no hot tea with honey. no coffee with cream & sugar. zero cookies, zero cakes, no fucking pies....ever.
Timeline: Mass shooting incidents in last 25 years
(Reuters) - Here is a timeline of some of the worst shooting incidents carried out by one or two gunmen around the world in the last 25 years:
March 13, 1996 - BRITAIN - Gunman Thomas Hamilton burst into a primary school in the Scottish town of Dunblane and shot dead 16 children and their teacher before killing himself.
April 28, 1996 - AUSTRALIA - Martin Bryant unleashed modern Australia's worst mass murder when he shot dead 35 people at the Port Arthur tourist site in the southern state of Tasmania.
April 1999 - UNITED STATES - Two heavily-armed teenagers went on a rampage at Columbine High School in Littleton, Denver, shooting 13 students and staff before taking their own lives.
July 1999 - UNITED STATES - A gunman killed nine people at two brokerages in Atlanta, after apparently killing his wife and two children. He committed suicide five hours later.
June 2001 - NEPAL - Eight members of the Nepalese Royal family were killed in a palace massacre by Crown Prince Dipendra who later turned a gun on himself and died few days later. His youngest brother also died later raising the death toll to 10.
April 26, 2002 - GERMANY - In Erfurt, eastern Germany, 19-year-old Robert Steinhauser opened fire after saying he was not going to take a math test. He killed 12 teachers, a secretary, two pupils and a policeman at the Gutenberg Gymnasium, before killing himself.
October 2002 - UNITED STATES - John Muhammad and Lee Malvo killed 10 people in sniper-style shooting deaths that terrorized the Washington, D.C., area.
April 16, 2007 - USA - Virginia Tech, a university in Blacksburg, Virginia, became the site of the deadliest rampage in U.S. history when a gunman killed 32 people and himself.
November 7, 2007 - FINLAND - Pekka-Eric Auvinen killed six fellow students, the school nurse, the principal and himself with a handgun at the Jokela High School near Helsinki.
September 23, 2008 - FINLAND - Student Matti Saari opened fire in a vocational school in Kauhajoki in northwest Finland, killing nine other students and one male staff member before killing himself.
March 11, 2009 - GERMANY - A 17-year-old gunman dressed in combat gear killed nine students and three teachers at a school near Stuttgart. He also killed one other person at a nearby clinic. He was later killed in a shoot-out with police. Two additional passers-by were killed and two policemen seriously injured, bringing the death toll to 16 including the gunman.
June 2, 2010 - BRITAIN - Gunman Derrick Bird opened fire on people in towns across the rural county of Cumbria. Twelve people were killed and 11 injured. Bird also killed himself.
April 9, 2011 - NETHERLANDS - Tristan van der Vlis opened fire in the Ridderhof mall in Alphen aan den Rijn, south of Amsterdam, killing six before turning the gun on himself.
July 22, 2011 - NORWAY - Police seize a gunman who killed 69 people at a youth summer camp of Norway's ruling political party, on the small, holiday island of Utoeya. Anders Behring Breivik is later charged with the killings, as well as with an earlier bombing in Oslo which killed eight people. The trial ended last month with Breivik saying that his bombing and shooting rampage was necessary to defend the country - prompting a walk-out by relatives of his victims.
December 13, 2011 - BELGIUM - Gunman Nordine Armani killed three people, including a 17-month-old toddler, wounding 121 in a central square in the eastern city of Liege, before shooting himself. The next day Belgian investigators found the body of a woman in warehouse used by the gunman raising the death toll, including the killer, to five.
July 20, 2012 - UNITED STATES - A masked gunman killed 14 people and wounded 50 others when he opened fire on moviegoers at a showing of new Batman film "The Dark Knight Rises" in the city of Denver.
We can sit here and debate till the next time this happens again and it will and we all know nothing will come of this, so by next month or next yr this will just be another episode in a long list that will keep on multiplying get used to it and just be vigil when in crowds .....Rest assured this will happen again .
However, CometoTX makes a point...maybe a canon like this AR-15 shouldnt be available to just anyone. Did you see my quote up above about the fact that the USA is unique in that we allow our civilians access to military grade weapons in some instances?
What weapons out of a normal semi-auto pistol does the public have access to that the military uses on a regular basis?
Again, you're missing the point. Those details arent what's important. The point is, why is something with this level of killing power (similar to military firepower) available to the public?
I dont know if the AR-15 is currently used by the military, but it was designed for the military http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15
And here's the quote:
"We're different than other cultures," said Dudley Brown, executive director of Rocky Mountain Gun Owners, which advocates for firearms owners' rights. "We do allow Americans to possess the accoutrements that our military generally has."
I'm certainly not alone in thinking he has a mental illness... turn the TV/ radio on,
I'm addressing the fact if help was more readily available this could have been avoided.
Even if help was 'available', that doesn't mean that he would have fallen into the hands of a mental health professional. I'm not following it very closely at this point, but, last I heard his performance was in the top 5 of his class before he withdrew. He was in his 20s (not 6, under close scrutiny)..antisocial...very smart. Maybe some have an issue with you defending his actions as a mentally ill person when that is not verified.
(sorry...not 'defending' but 'empathizing'.)
correct... I am not defending or condoning but believe in this case mental illness
is the cause, as with the Arizona tragedy. As I said I am not alone.
The problem is he probably would not have sought help because of the nature of the illness.
But family could. It is very hard to get someone mental help until they hurt themselves or others.
It is very difficult to find good help and almost always the financial expense so
absorbant that it is not even a plausible possibility.
But he will get help now just as Loughner is... after the fact.
Comments
This looks like a guy who just woke up from a week long bender. "What happened?"
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/ ... 4#48283194
I give up. All Americans should have and pack as many guns as they want, wherever they want. :? We have no hope. :fp:
He fired a warning shot into the ceiling and just stood there with the tear gas in his hand. People were quoted saying that they thought it was part of the movie!
WHAT MOVIE HAS ANYONE GONE TO THAT THERE ARE EXTRA THEATRICS?
He could have been stopped, but the company decided that it was more important to disarm the law abiding citizens.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/22/opini ... lings.html
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
a lot of judging of the victims from someone who wasn't there
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Like I said day 1 it's not an either or situation. We can do our best to provide mental health to those who need it AND keep weapons of mass destruction out of the hands of civilians.
Looks like Scott Weiland.
We have that everywhere and even in most of the threads here. Speculation a natural bi product
of life experiences as are our opinions. She was put on the radio to speculate. Most comments
here on this thread are judgmental speculation.
I'm certainly not alone in thinking he has a mental illness... turn the TV/ radio on,
I'm addressing the fact if help was more readily available this could have been avoided.
I feel the same way. Maybe more of a problem of an individualistic society versus a collective society. Perhaps if we felt a sense of community and a need to support, protect and nurture each other, not just our own immediate friends and family, then perhaps we wouldn't feel the need to have to defend ourselves from each other.
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
(sorry...not 'defending' but 'empathizing'.)
Godfather.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
What weapons out of a normal semi-auto pistol does the public have access to that the military uses on a regular basis?
He dyed his hair red, calls himself the joker and shot up a batman movie showing in a theater=mental illness
PJ: 2011-09-03 2011-09-04
he is a calculating. he is outrageous. he is seeking unreal/huge attention.
i say our president of the united states go visit with this guy. i say that barak obama tell him as follows.
you are getting almost zero publicity. no one is going to remember your name. you are going to work so fucking hard in unreal heat & cold that you will wish & pray you were not alive. but we will not allow such nonsense. you are going to be awake some 20 hrs a day for the rest of your natural days. you are crushing rock and digging ditching in 104 degree weather. you are not an interesting guy! you are a sick fuck!
not one single person will ever make a movie or write a book about your tales ever as long as i can stop it!
as a country we are uniting like none other. your days of joy & pleasure are shut the fuck down from here on out.
i hope you like basic nutrition because fine dining is over. snack time is over. your favorite meals are unavaliable. ice cold water after working all day long? no. you get room temperature water. no hot tea with honey. no coffee with cream & sugar. zero cookies, zero cakes, no fucking pies....ever.
the list goes on...
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
This isn't only a US problem, Norway just had a guy kill 91 people.
PJ: 2011-09-03 2011-09-04
It happens here a lot more often.
Again, you're missing the point. Those details arent what's important. The point is, why is something with this level of killing power (similar to military firepower) available to the public?
I dont know if the AR-15 is currently used by the military, but it was designed for the military
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15
And here's the quote:
"We're different than other cultures," said Dudley Brown, executive director of Rocky Mountain Gun Owners, which advocates for firearms owners' rights. "We do allow Americans to possess the accoutrements that our military generally has."
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/ap/ap/crim ... nal/nP2Gc/
The WHOLE POINT is that the USA might legally allow more firepower than anyone. Why is that? and is it necessary?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15
hmmmm. which country stands out from ALL the rest? Bingo! the USA!
Every single other country has some restrictions. The USA: "There are no federal restrictions on the ownership of AR-15 rifles in the United States."
And, a 5o caliber sniper rifle able to take down helicopters is legal in the US?! :fp:
is the cause, as with the Arizona tragedy. As I said I am not alone.
The problem is he probably would not have sought help because of the nature of the illness.
But family could. It is very hard to get someone mental help until they hurt themselves or others.
It is very difficult to find good help and almost always the financial expense so
absorbant that it is not even a plausible possibility.
But he will get help now just as Loughner is... after the fact.