A Song Of Ice & Fire GRRM's Book Thread **Spoilers**

intodeep

Okay so here is a nice thread for people who have read al the books and want to talk about

Does R+L=J

Is Martin trying to have the same change in Theon he did with Jamie? are you buying it?

Who is the prince who was promised?

How many times did you throw the book against the wall when you read the Red Wedding?

Now one really believes Jon Snow is Dead? Right?

Last but not least Where Do Whores Go??????????

HeavyHands

I'm going to be reading all of these during a coming trip in the next few months. I've gotten quite a few recommendations for them. Already downloaded them and really looking forward to it.

chris32482

Jon Snow can't be dead. That would make no sense at all. We haven't learned the truth about his mother yet, and he hasn't fought the Others. Plus I think he's going to hook up with Dany before it's all over. Melisandre will save him.

Theon is an interesting story. It does seem like he's going through the whole "redemption" angle like Jaime did. I can buy into because I think he's suffered enough to atone for what he did.

polaris_x

i don't get the r+l = j question ...

i never threw the book against the wall ... in fact, it is those parts of the book i like best ... as i said in the other thread - i find him way too verbose and often we will go pages without anything really happening ... that is what i find frustrating ...

jon snow can not be dead ... i think coldhands is actually benjen stark ... for some reason i suspect tyrion will end up back with sansa ...

intodeep

Yeah I always thought coldhands was benjin but i thought when Bran finally met him in ADWD that it would be revealed. Surely Bran could have recognized him Unless i guess maybe benjen was turned into an Other and did not want Bran to see him like that.

R+L= J is the theory that Rhagar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark willingly went off togetehr and had a kid and that kid is Jon Snow. So Ned remembers in the cell the promise he made to Lyanna which we all assume is that he will raise jon like his son and not let anyone know who his father or mother is

I definately think Jon is going to come back. Maybe he goes into his wolf for a while and comes back through melisandre as you suggest but his story is not done.

All i know is i want Lord Manderly to come out of this or go down like a badass. Him cooking up those three Freys and serving them as pie to Roose Bolton at Winterfell was fantastic.
The North Remembers

polaris_x

intodeep wrote:

Yeah I always thought coldhands was benjin but i thought when Bran finally met him in ADWD that it would be revealed. Surely Bran could have recognized him Unless i guess maybe benjen was turned into an Other and did not want Bran to see him like that.

R+L= J is the theory that Rhagar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark willingly went off togetehr and had a kid and that kid is Jon Snow. So Ned remembers in the cell the promise he made to Lyanna which we all assume is that he will raise jon like his son and not let anyone know who his father or mother is

I definately think Jon is going to come back. Maybe he goes into his wolf for a while and comes back through melisandre as you suggest but his story is not done.

All i know is i want Lord Manderly to come out of this or go down like a badass. Him cooking up those three Freys and serving them as pie to Roose Bolton at Winterfell was fantastic.
The North Remembers

shit ... i totally missed that with lyanna ... i always felt that there had to be something about that ... ultimately, will the seven kingdoms unite under 1 ruler? ... who will that be? ... i hope it's not danaerys ... she lacks wisdom for my liking ...

there's just so many things to consider ...

all i ultimately care for is that no one comes back and meets up with nymeria at some point ... ... and that she kicks some serious ass!! ... oh and maybe the nights watch lifts its celibacy policy ... that's just not right! ... haha

Enkidu

intodeep wrote:

Yeah I always thought coldhands was benjin but i thought when Bran finally met him in ADWD that it would be revealed. Surely Bran could have recognized him Unless i guess maybe benjen was turned into an Other and did not want Bran to see him like that.

R+L= J is the theory that Rhagar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark willingly went off togetehr and had a kid and that kid is Jon Snow. So Ned remembers in the cell the promise he made to Lyanna which we all assume is that he will raise jon like his son and not let anyone know who his father or mother is

I definately think Jon is going to come back. Maybe he goes into his wolf for a while and comes back through melisandre as you suggest but his story is not done.

All i know is i want Lord Manderly to come out of this or go down like a badass. Him cooking up those three Freys and serving them as pie to Roose Bolton at Winterfell was fantastic.
The North Remembers

Oh, I like the R+L= J theory. I didn't think of that.

I'm so bored with the device of someone being "dead" and then not really being dead. It was cool the first time, but over and over and over...

intodeep

Yeah it seems to make sence and it is interesting because the name of the Series is the Song of Ice and Fire. It seems to be slowly telling the taile of modern day events as well as flashbacks to things that happened before. So Lyanna is Ice Rhagar is Fire.

It's messed up if its true because Robert went to war thinking Lyanna was captured and stolen away from him. But if it's true it was all a lie and she really fell in love with Rhagar. I think some point out that there are hints when they talk about the tournment of the false summer as being a point when some clues to this are offered but i don't remember off hand for sure.

It would also make sense that is why during a pinicle part of Robert's rebellion Rhagar was fighting a decisive battle on the Trident but he had 3 of his kindsguard at Summerhall where Lyanna was guarding her. he did not want anythign to happen to her but it could be because she was pregnant with his child and that is why he had to take her away in teh first place. She dies in giving birth to Jon and Ned shows up in time to see her pass and make his promise.

So of course i want to know WHERE THE HELL IS HOWLAND REED! Because even though ned is dead Howland and Ned were the only two to return from Summerhall. So hopefully Howland shows up soon.

Anyway its a poplar theory that i think is pretty true but we won't know for sure till we find out i guess

intodeep

Enkidu wrote:

I'm so bored with the device of someone being "dead" and then not really being dead. It was cool the first time, but over and over and over...

Yeah i agree it seems played out especially after the reveal of Baby Aegon.

Do you think Tyrion might be a Targaryen? I hope not but i remember reading one part of dance with dragosn they hinted he could be. That would be disaponting too.

intodeep

polaris_x wrote:

ultimately, will the seven kingdoms unite under 1 ruler? ... who will that be? ... i hope it's not danaerys ... she lacks wisdom for my liking ...
all i ultimately care for is that no one comes back and meets up with nymeria at some point ... ... and that she kicks some serious ass!! ...

I so agree about nymeria

I actually don't have a clue who will lead the 7 kingdoms. I almost wonder if it will crumble and be taken over by the others.

I don't think there will be a happy ending for most of our favorites.

Speaking of favs we need more Davos! He is one of my favs

polaris_x

intodeep wrote:

I actually don't have a clue who will lead the 7 kingdoms. I almost wonder if it will crumble and be taken over by the others.

I don't think there will be a happy ending for most of our favorites.

Speaking of favs we need more Davos! He is one of my favs

i think for the most part it would be a satisfactory ending ... based on the books already written - you know more are gonna bite it ... haha ...

yeah - davos was supposed to go find rickon and then crickets ...

MotoDC

Oh man I didn't realize how rusty I was on my ASOIAF knowledge. Read the books too long ago. Trying to decide if I should re-read each one just before the next season or enjoy the "surprises" as I watch the show.

Overall I would have a hard time believing that the entire kingdom is going to be united under one ruler, when it's all said and done. I feel like GRRM has to give something back to all of us who got so invested in the Starks from the get-go, only to see them dropping like flies over the next couple thousand pages. Let them rule the north and Dany or some other Targaryen rule the rest.

Haha, the fact that I think that's what GRRM "owes" us probably just means it's that much less likely to occur. :evil:

MotoDC

edit: ack, double post.

PearlJamaholic

I think there is some truth to lyanna running away with rhaegar cause wasnt something mentioned that elia wasnt much a looker in the last book, and if only he would have married cersei he would never have taken lyanna, thus avoiding all of this mess.

PearlJamaholic

this is what i was thinking that i sent as a pm, since i was asked what my crazy theory was after finishing the latest book.

Whether Jon dies or not, probably not i think he is azor ahai. melisandre admits getting her visions wrong plenty of times so it might be snow instead of stannis.

but thing i was thinking is that the wildlings will take over the wall and be heroes. since the beginning of story the wall has become a joke, filled with murders and rapists and gets little respect from the kingdom. the history is proud but nothing recent. i can see the wildlings taking control, saving the realm, and the 7 kingdoms letting them live as free folk having the wall and everything north to themselves. since they can populate and have nothing against working with women they wont have to beg for recruits. they can be a kingdom of their own.

as it stands the wildlings have all the power, the nights watch is hardly anything. snow was the only one keeping the watch together and keeping the peace. the watch cant withstand the force of the wildlings as is. so with jon dead, or not, they started a war they cant win, and jon cant fix it with diplomacy, they have to reap what they sowed, and it will be their demise.

jon snow will be the last lord commander, the wildlings will rule the wall and be left alone after they save the realm from the others. and since jon is no longer bound to the oath he is free to do whatever he wants, which i think is (as do many) he is lyanna's son which will make him a heir to the throne. i have a feeling aegon is gonna die.

and the martells dont forgive, dany will have to take blame for quentyn's death, which might be where aegon gets killed by a martell uprising. though i cant see them killing elia's son, they might not believe its him and just want targ blood and their alliance's blood.

bran arya and tyrion will have a part to play in all this but i dont have any crazy theories on it. tyrion seems to have sided with the targs though.

vduboise

so tempted to read this thread, but I have still have 2 books to go. Reading as fast as I can!

intodeep

PearlJamaholic wrote:

this is what i was thinking that i sent as a pm, since i was asked what my crazy theory was after finishing the latest book.

Whether Jon dies or not, probably not i think he is azor ahai. melisandre admits getting her visions wrong plenty of times so it might be snow instead of stannis.

but thing i was thinking is that the wildlings will take over the wall and be heroes. since the beginning of story the wall has become a joke, filled with murders and rapists and gets little respect from the kingdom. the history is proud but nothing recent. i can see the wildlings taking control, saving the realm, and the 7 kingdoms letting them live as free folk having the wall and everything north to themselves. since they can populate and have nothing against working with women they wont have to beg for recruits. they can be a kingdom of their own.

as it stands the wildlings have all the power, the nights watch is hardly anything. snow was the only one keeping the watch together and keeping the peace. the watch cant withstand the force of the wildlings as is. so with jon dead, or not, they started a war they cant win, and jon cant fix it with diplomacy, they have to reap what they sowed, and it will be their demise.

jon snow will be the last lord commander, the wildlings will rule the wall and be left alone after they save the realm from the others. and since jon is no longer bound to the oath he is free to do whatever he wants, which i think is (as do many) he is lyanna's son which will make him a heir to the throne. i have a feeling aegon is gonna die.

and the martells dont forgive, dany will have to take blame for quentyn's death, which might be where aegon gets killed by a martell uprising. though i cant see them killing elia's son, they might not believe its him and just want targ blood and their alliance's blood.

bran arya and tyrion will have a part to play in all this but i dont have any crazy theories on it. tyrion seems to have sided with the targs though.

I can get on board with that.
Doesn't Jon have a dream in ADWD and he wakes up remembering himself standing atop the wall with a red sword? Very Azor Ahai like~

The wildlings idea makes a ton of sense. I mean change is going to have to happen to them.

polaris_x

there are just soooo many story lines ... and so many key characters ... i can see this being another 4 books ... :(

MotoDC

polaris_x wrote:

there are just soooo many story lines ... and so many key characters ... i can see this being another 4 books ... :(

Damn it, you're probably right. Honestly, if GRRM tries to wrap this all up in the next 1,000 pages, it's going to seem really rushed, as outrageous as that statement sounds.

The sheer volume of characters and subplots is why my wife got annoyed with the series and stopped reading. Paradoxically, the sheer volume of characters and subplots is why I want to re-read them all to see what I missed!

PearlJamaholic

he is still saying its gonna be 7 books, 2 more to go...i think that will be enough to finish this up. better be i cant wait 15 years to get to the ending. maybe the last book can come out on the 20th anniversary of agot. thats wishful thinking though

Sprunkn7

I'm reading A Dance with Dragons. I had to go back and read in Wiki the highlights from the last 2 books. It's been a while since I read them. After Feast I had to put them down, so many people and families my head was spinning.
Really looking forward to Sunday!

intodeep

Yeah its going to be tight for him to finish in 2 more. Especially if he doesn't tighten things up. ADWD seemed long winded (even for him)

How awesome were Bran's chapters in ADWD? They were few but his chapters really felt like a fantasy novel more so than the others.

PearlJamaholic

intodeep wrote:

Yeah its going to be tight for him to finish in 2 more. Especially if he doesn't tighten things up. ADWD seemed long winded (even for him)

How awesome were Bran's chapters in ADWD? They were few but his chapters really felt like a fantasy novel more so than the others.

Arya and Bran are usually my favorite cause they seem to have that fantasy feel that the rest of the books dont. the dragons seem more like a prop and melisandra and the like just remind me of fanatical religious whack jobs, though both are fantasy elements, they dont come across that way to me.

but coldhands and the 3 eyed crow... and when bran met him for the first time, just awesome. it was a total 'oh here we go!' moment. instead of the normal feel of the books where anyone could die, it felt like anything could be possible.

Sprunkn7

is it me or do the sneak peaks of season 2 look like they go into book 3?

polaris_x

intodeep wrote:

Yeah its going to be tight for him to finish in 2 more. Especially if he doesn't tighten things up. ADWD seemed long winded (even for him)

How awesome were Bran's chapters in ADWD? They were few but his chapters really felt like a fantasy novel more so than the others.

fuck yeah ... got excited when a new chapter came up and it would be him ... the best part of his chapters are that hodor (who i've come to adore ... in a very manly way ... hahaha) and jojen and meera are cool characters too who fit perfectly with his story ... throw in cold hands and summer and you got minimal characters and more action ...

polaris_x

a yahoo comment ... on the question of "is jon snow dead" ...

*************************
He was stabbed 4 freaking times, yes he's dead. If he's in the next book, it'll be as a wolf. A fricking wolf.

Stupid Martin already killed off everyone good and then only gives 3 chapters of Arya and Bran, kills Jon Snow, and possibly Stannis, but leaves his beloved annoying, stupid, girly little $@*&! called "Dan", dedicating over 80% of the bloody book to the sl*t, retard Turncloak, and other annoying, dumb characters.

Now we wait another 6 years for what? More of the ugly Dragon C**t. Screw you Martin. Screw you.
Source(s):
Dance with Morons, G. R. R. Martin

*************************

hahahahaha

PearlJamaholic

maybe someone should tell him catelyn died before.....

Mamasan23

Ahh I can't ignore this thread! I didn't read anything in here though, just had to post that I got to the part in ADWD where Slynt loses his pretty little head :twisted: Justice!!!!!!!

polaris_x

Mamasan23 wrote:

Ahh I can't ignore this thread! I didn't read anything in here though, just had to post that I got to the part in ADWD where Slynt loses his pretty little head :twisted: Justice!!!!!!!

i think the bigger the prick you are the more gruesome your death will be ... haha

PearlJamaholic

that was pretty cool how it all went down. one of the better moments in the book, snow is just awesome.

MotoDC

polaris_x wrote:

a yahoo comment ... on the question of "is jon snow dead" ...

*************************
He was stabbed 4 freaking times, yes he's dead. If he's in the next book, it'll be as a wolf. A fricking wolf.

Stupid Martin already killed off everyone good and then only gives 3 chapters of Arya and Bran, kills Jon Snow, and possibly Stannis, but leaves his beloved annoying, stupid, girly little $@*&! called "Dan", dedicating over 80% of the bloody book to the sl*t, retard Turncloak, and other annoying, dumb characters.

Now we wait another 6 years for what? More of the ugly Dragon C**t. Screw you Martin. Screw you.
Source(s):
Dance with Morons, G. R. R. Martin

*************************

hahahahaha

Mayhaps a bit more melodramatically than I would have put it, but a little part of me agrees in spirit.


....not going to stop me from watching the whole HBO series and probably rereading some of the books though...