Trayvon Martin

hedonist

marcos wrote:

I agree that maybe it wasn't a 100% race issue but maybe more of a class issue. This guy seems like he would have used his gun on anyone that didn't look like they lived in that community. I think Zimmerman was looking for a bad guy and to use his gun that night. I think he would have used it on anybody that looked poor whether white or black.

Though the media and corporate America will try to make it a race issue when it really is a gun issue. Sorry but this is exactly why people should not have access to guns; because they're are too many nuts who don't know how to be reasonable, unfortunately he and other nuts ruin it for everybody.

First paragraph - even part of the second - you make sense, since I'm just not sure it was an entirely racially-motivated act.

I was with you until the end.

SOME people should not have access to guns.

I can't condone the few-dipshits-ruining-shit-for-everyone perspective.

I'd rather deal with those few dipshits, like Mr. Zimmerman.

My heart goes out to young Trayvon's family.

haffajappa

MotoDC wrote:

haffajappa wrote:

On another note, the dispatcher asked "white black or hispanic"... So glad I'll never get caught in FL there's no asian option. (I don't know why that question struck me as odd)

What's the point of asking? Too busy makin' that money to bother with crime:
http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/ ... 2s0697.pdf

Hahaha, yeah... MAYBE!

I guess I mean, I know that there are an overwhelming number of blacks, whites, hispanics, (and old people) in Florida, I suppose I would have expected the dispatcher to say what's his ethnicity or something like that

Byrnzie

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... ng-too-far

Trayvon Martin: a killing too far

Outrage at the death of Trayvon Martin is finally lifting the lid on the US's racist underbelly

Gary Younge
guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 21 March 2012

The second world war had a civilising influence on Buford Posey, a white man raised in the Deep South during the Depression. "When I was coming up in Mississippi I never knew it was against the law to kill a black man," he says. "I learned that when I went in the army. I was 17 years old. When they told me I thought they were joking."

Some 70 years later it's clear not everybody got that memo. Three weeks ago in Sanford, Florida, a neighbourhood watch captain, George Zimmerman, shot dead an unarmed black teen, Trayvon Martin, as he walked home from the store. Zimmerman, who is Latino, called the emergency services because he thought Martin, 17, looked "suspicious" and then, against the advice of the dispatcher, followed him. The two men fought. Martin died. Zimmerman emerged, bleeding from the nose and the back of his head, claiming he shot Martin in self-defence because he was in fear of his life.

Zimmerman was neither charged nor arrested. Under Florida's "stand your ground" statute, deadly force is permitted if the person "reasonably believes" it is necessary to protect their own life, the life of another or to prevent a forcible felony. Zimmerman weighs 250lbs and had a 9mm handgun; Martin weighed 140lbs and had a packet of Skittles and a can of iced tea. Being a young black male, it seems, is reason enough.

One can only speculate as to Zimmerman's intentions. Efforts to create a crude morality play around this shooting in which Martin is sanctified and Zimmerman is pathologised miss the point. Zimmerman's assumptions on seeing Martin may have been reprehensible but they were not illogical. Black men in America are more likely to be stopped, searched, arrested, convicted and executed than any other group. With almost one in 10 black men behind bars there are more of them in prison, on probation or on parole today than were enslaved in 1850. To assume that when you see a black man you see a criminal is rooted in the fact that black men have been systematically criminalised. That excuses nothing but explains a great deal.

Add to this lax gun laws, entrenched segregation, deep economic inequalities and a statute that endorses vigilantism, and a murder of this kind is inevitable. Indeed what makes Martin's case noteworthy is not that it happened but that it has sparked such widespread indignation beyond his immediate community. It is not at all uncommon for young black men to leave the world in a shower of bullets followed by deafening silence.

Eight kids under the age of 19 are killed by guns in America every day. While researching the stories of those who fell one November day in 2006 I ran across the story of Brandon Moore. Brandon was 16 when he was shot in the back in the middle of the afternoon by an off-duty cop moonlighting as a security guard in Detroit. The guard had previously shot a man dead during a neighbourhood fracas, shot his wife (though not fatally) in a domestic dispute and had been involved in a fatal hit-and-run car accident while under the influence of alcohol. Brandon's death was dismissed in the city's two main newspapers in less than 200 words. They never even mentioned his name. Brandon's death was ruled to be justifiable homicide. A year later the guard was still in the police force.

"We're deemed not reportable," said Clementina Chery, who runs the Boston-based Louis D Brown Peace Institute, which assists families in the immediate aftermath of shootings and works in schools to educate people about gun violence. "Black children are dispensable. Violence is expected to happen in these communities."

Thanks to the escalating outrage at Martin's death an investigation has now been launched by the US department of justice, and the state attorney's office will be sending it to a grand jury. It took three weeks, outrage and the mobilisation of thousands of people to make that happen. Apparently the facts alone did not warrant further inquiry.

The question now is whether Martin's case can gain the attention at the highest levels of the American polity. In 2009 when a well known African American Harvard professor, Henry Louis Gates Jr, was arrested while trying to get into his own home, Obama made his views known in a clumsy intervention that ended in him staging a "beer summit" with Gates and the arresting officer.

Given how rarely Obama refers to issues of race and how much there is to refer to, it was strange that he would spend his considerable moral capital in this area to defend a tenured Harvard professor whom he knew, and who was detained for a few hours.

We'll never know if Martin could have become a Harvard professor. But it would be nice to think that his short life and brutal death would receive the same kind of presidential attention.

Byrnzie

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

The recording of the 911 Call from the "witness" who did not want to go out side is enough to make me sick. And it DEFINITELY should be enough to put this loathable night watchman behind bars for murder.

Could the woman on the other end of the phone be more annoying with her stupid fucking questions?

haffajappa

Byrnzie wrote:

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

The recording of the 911 Call from the "witness" who did not want to go out side is enough to make me sick. And it DEFINITELY should be enough to put this loathable night watchman behind bars for murder.

Could the woman on the other end of the phone be more annoying with her stupid fucking questions?

1 of 8 calls and no one could help the poor kid?
Although someone wielding a gun it's hard to pass judgement I guess.

marcos

goingtoverona wrote:

sorry homeslice, gonna have to disagree with you here. there are millions of people that own guns and that don't go out shooting people and commiting crimes. there is no reason that they should have their guns taken away because of the choices of others. people kill other people every single day because of drinking and driving, your logic suggests we should ban cars and alcohol as well. right? a few bad people have to ruin it for everyone? people have been beaten to death with baseball bats, stabbed to death with steak knives and suffocated to death with pillows. not only will banning all these things not make them disappear, but it certainly won't destroy the intent to do harm that people will always have.

Though the media and corporate America will try to make it a race issue when it really is a gun issue. Sorry but this is exactly why people should not have access to guns; because they're are too many nuts who don't know how to be reasonable, unfortunately he and other nuts ruin it for everybody.

[/quote]

I understand that there are many reasonable people that own guns as I did point out, I just so disgusted with gun violence that I'm willing to just say get rid of guns; which as you point out is unreasonable. You are mistaken on my logic. I think you gave a poor comparison to baseball bats and bars and even steak knives as there are other uses for them. Guns are simply at a point where to many nuts have access to them and they are used to kill and nothing else. Gun ranges are fine but just leave them there. Perhaps we just need stronger laws to keep them away from the disturbed people. I think we can agree on that?

polaris_x

the more i'm reading about this ... the more evident it is that the main problem is this "stand your ground" law ... and for that - we can thank the NRA ... sooo - you gun advocates ... you're shooting yourself in the foot here ... pun intended ...

this law is opposed by every state attorney's office because it basically allows for cold blooded murder ... you want someone dead ... go up to him and kill him and say it was self-defense ... the guy is dead and you would be the only witness ... what a seriously fucked up law ... so, thank the NRA and Jeb Bush for this death and recognize how utterly stupid people get to protect their so called "rights" ...

Godfather.

polaris_x wrote:

the more i'm reading about this ... the more evident it is that the main problem is this "stand your ground" law ... and for that - we can thank the NRA ... sooo - you gun advocates ... you're shooting yourself in the foot here ... pun intended ...

this law is opposed by every state attorney's office because it basically allows for cold blooded murder ... you want someone dead ... go up to him and kill him and say it was self-defense ... the guy is dead and you would be the only witness ... what a seriously fucked up law ... so, thank the NRA and Jeb Bush for this death and recognize how utterly stupid people get to protect their so called "rights" ...

you're trying to put the blame on the NRA and Jeb Bush ? what about holding people accountable for their own actions ? seems there is plenty of evidense to hang this douch by his short and curlys, he ran after trayvon and shot and killed him without provacation not the NRA or Jeb Bush,you shouldn't let your dislike for a group or persons cloud your judgment,the shooter was clearly wrong and there is evidense to prove that so pointing fingers in all directions will not make this guys actions any worse than they already are or make trayvons mother and father feel any better,this was a crime commited by one man not a group.

Godfather.

keeponrockin

Godfather. wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

the more i'm reading about this ... the more evident it is that the main problem is this "stand your ground" law ... and for that - we can thank the NRA ... sooo - you gun advocates ... you're shooting yourself in the foot here ... pun intended ...

this law is opposed by every state attorney's office because it basically allows for cold blooded murder ... you want someone dead ... go up to him and kill him and say it was self-defense ... the guy is dead and you would be the only witness ... what a seriously fucked up law ... so, thank the NRA and Jeb Bush for this death and recognize how utterly stupid people get to protect their so called "rights" ...

you're trying to put the blame on the NRA and Jeb Bush ? what about holding people accountable for their own actions ? seems there is plenty of evidense to hang this douch by his short and curlys, he ran after trayvon and shot and killed him without provacation not the NRA or Jeb Bush,you shouldn't let your dislike for a group or persons cloud your judgment,the shooter was clearly wrong and there is evidense to prove that so pointing fingers in all directions will not make this guys actions any worse than they already are or make trayvons mother and father feel any better,this was a crime commited by one man not a group.

Godfather.

But according to the 'Stand your ground' law, it may not be a crime... And if this guy gets off because of the language of that law, Jeb and the NRA should absolutely be held accountable for that.

polaris_x

Godfather. wrote:

you're trying to put the blame on the NRA and Jeb Bush ? what about holding people accountable for their own actions ? seems there is plenty of evidense to hang this douch by his short and curlys, he ran after trayvon and shot and killed him without provacation not the NRA or Jeb Bush,you shouldn't let your dislike for a group or persons cloud your judgment,the shooter was clearly wrong and there is evidense to prove that so pointing fingers in all directions will not make this guys actions any worse than they already are or make trayvons mother and father feel any better,this was a crime commited by one man not a group.

Godfather.

dude ... the very reason why he is free now is because of this law ... "justifiable" homicides tripled in a state that had no apparent problem with homicides ... you shouldn't like your support for a group blind you to the problems ... every state attorneys office is vehemently opposed to this law because it allows people like Zimmerman to commit acts like this without consequence ...

JonnyPistachio

polaris_x wrote:

the more i'm reading about this ... the more evident it is that the main problem is this "stand your ground" law ... and for that - we can thank the NRA ... sooo - you gun advocates ... you're shooting yourself in the foot here ... pun intended ...

this law is opposed by every state attorney's office because it basically allows for cold blooded murder ... you want someone dead ... go up to him and kill him and say it was self-defense ... the guy is dead and you would be the only witness ... what a seriously fucked up law ... so, thank the NRA and Jeb Bush for this death and recognize how utterly stupid people get to protect their so called "rights" ...

It certainly is a fucked up law. I read something a few months back about a guy who got out of his car (road rage) and approached another guys car, and banged on the window (stupid). The driver shot him dead and got off scott free.
Granted, the guy should've never approached that car, but should he have been shot dead? It's gotten wild wild west-like down here.

polaris_x

JonnyPistachio wrote:

It certainly is a fucked up law. I read something a few months back about a guy who got out of his car (road rage) and approached another guys car, and banged on the window (stupid). The driver shot him dead and got off scott free.
Granted, the guy should've never approached that car, but should he have been shot dead? It's gotten wild wild west-like down here.

ya ... on cbc up here last nite they had a state attorney talking about the case ... wasn't quite like you said tho - the victim got into it with some people at a bar ... as he was going home the car with the other people drove past him and they circled back and threatened to shoot him ... dumbass should have left but he "apparently" tried to take the gun away and they shot him ...

it's that tussle that makes all the difference ... they could have shot him point blank as long as no one else was looking ... and all they would have to say is ... self defense - he reached in ...

Godfather.

.

Cliffy6745

cincybearcat wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

The more I think about this, the worse it fucking is. This kid was followed while doing nothing wrong, confronted, probably defended himself and then was fucking shot to death, all because he was black and walking down the street at night. A 17 year old good student dead because he was black and some fuck face had a hard on and a gun.

Edit: And there is no way that big fuck had to use a gun against a scrawny unarmed 17 year old. This fuck is going to rot in jail and it's going to be awesome.

I agree with everything you said, except I'm not 100% sure it was because the kid was black. May have been, but also may not have mattered.

Something seriously wrong with that guy.

I wish I could agree with you on that. I just don't see this guy doing to those lengths if it were a white 17 year old kid. And yes, something is seriously wrong with him.

ComeToTX

Cliffy6745 wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

The more I think about this, the worse it fucking is. This kid was followed while doing nothing wrong, confronted, probably defended himself and then was fucking shot to death, all because he was black and walking down the street at night. A 17 year old good student dead because he was black and some fuck face had a hard on and a gun.

Edit: And there is no way that big fuck had to use a gun against a scrawny unarmed 17 year old. This fuck is going to rot in jail and it's going to be awesome.

I agree with everything you said, except I'm not 100% sure it was because the kid was black. May have been, but also may not have mattered.

Something seriously wrong with that guy.

I wish I could agree with you on that. I just don't see this guy doing to those lengths if it were a white 17 year old kid. And yes, something is seriously wrong with him.

What if it went down the same way and Trayvon was white? Would Zimmerman be in jail already?

g under p

cincybearcat wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

The more I think about this, the worse it fucking is. This kid was followed while doing nothing wrong, confronted, probably defended himself and then was fucking shot to death, all because he was black and walking down the street at night. A 17 year old good student dead because he was black and some fuck face had a hard on and a gun.

Edit: And there is no way that big fuck had to use a gun against a scrawny unarmed 17 year old. This fuck is going to rot in jail and it's going to be awesome.

I agree with everything you said, except I'm not 100% sure it was because the kid was black. May have been, but also may not have mattered.

Something seriously wrong with that guy.

ComeToTX wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

I wish I could agree with you on that. I just don't see this guy doing to those lengths if it were a white 17 year old kid. And yes, something is seriously wrong with him.

What if it went down the same way and Trayvon was white? Would Zimmerman be in jail already?

Yes he probably would be...at the very least they would have done a drug test and background check on Zimmerman also. In reality they made sure they did a drug test and background check on the dead Trayvon.

peace

g under p

Chief of police Bill Lee for the moment has stepped aside believing he has been too much of a distraction.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/03/22/sa ... eath-teen/

Peace

usamamasan1

"if I had a son, he'd look like Treyvon Martin"
Obama

inmytree

Blame the hoodie...sez Geraldo Rivera...

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/the-5-cr ... d-about-tr

1."I think the hoodie is as much responsible for Trayvon Martin's death as George Zimmerman was."

2."I'll bet you money, if he didn't have that hoodie on, that nutty neighborhood watchguy would have never responded in that violent and aggressive way."

3."I am urging the parents of black and Latino youngsters particularly to not let their children go out wearing hoodies."

4."He wore an outfit (Trayvon Martin) that allowed someone to respond in this irrational, overzealous way, and if he had been dressed more appropriately. I believe unless it's raining or at a track meet leave the hoodie at home."

5."You know the old Johnny Cash song 'don't take your gun to town son, leave your gun at home.' There are some things that are almost inevitable."

(the link as video)

My comment: Geraldo Rivera is a fucking putz...

cincybearcat

inmytree wrote:

Blame the hoodie...sez Geraldo Rivera...

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/the-5-cr ... d-about-tr

1."I think the hoodie is as much responsible for Trayvon Martin's death as George Zimmerman was."

2."I'll bet you money, if he didn't have that hoodie on, that nutty neighborhood watchguy would have never responded in that violent and aggressive way."

3."I am urging the parents of black and Latino youngsters particularly to not let their children go out wearing hoodies."

4."He wore an outfit (Trayvon Martin) that allowed someone to respond in this irrational, overzealous way, and if he had been dressed more appropriately. I believe unless it's raining or at a track meet leave the hoodie at home."

5."You know the old Johnny Cash song 'don't take your gun to town son, leave your gun at home.' There are some things that are almost inevitable."

(the link as video)

My comment: Geraldo Rivera is a fucking putz...

Hahahahaha...this is great.

And those girls that get raped, they shouldn't have worn those high heels, mini skirts, and cleavage showing tops!!!!