This case is pretty disturbing.
My first thoughts after seeing Zimmerman's picture is that he looks like a BIG guy, and Trayvon looks pretty tiny. Self defense? REALLY?
I just listened to the 911 call.. i'm in agreement with those saying he chased the poor kid down. I just don't understand why this wouldn't be an automatic investigation... If it didn't get the media coverage it did, would they have done anything about it? It feels bizarre. I mean, shit happens up here too, but sometimes I am really surprised at some of the things that go on in the states :shock:
On another note, the dispatcher asked "white black or hispanic"... So glad I'll never get caught in FL there's no asian option. (I don't know why that question struck me as odd)
On another note, the dispatcher asked "white black or hispanic"... So glad I'll never get caught in FL there's no asian option. (I don't know why that question struck me as odd)
just saw this on the news ... the petition on the web 750,000 sigs I think it said
for justice.
I don't get why the guy is not in jail yet...
at least that is what the 5pm news said.
A young life gone, parents broken, a neighborhood in conflict
why again?
cause the shooter presumed he was a bad kid, bad enough to kill :?
the article said he called the cops how many times 46...
in a little over a year ... red flag... was the neighborhood that bad?
He might be mentally ill or paranoid.
Edit.... Just heard this am on the Today show that it 46 times since 2004
I guess background checks on neighborhood watch captains now :wtf:
Something I didn't know a background check was done on Trayvon and a drug test NONE was done on Zimmerman. No wonder they were given a no vote of confidence.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I agree with everything you said, except I'm not 100% sure it was because the kid was black. May have been, but also may not have mattered.
Something seriously wrong with that guy.
I agree that maybe it wasn't a 100% race issue but maybe more of a class issue. This guy seems like he would have used his gun on anyone that didn't look like they lived in that community. I think Zimmerman was looking for a bad guy and to use his gun that night. I think he would have used it on anybody that looked poor whether white or black.
Though the media and corporate America will try to make it a race issue when it really is a gun issue. Sorry but this is exactly why people should not have access to guns; because they're are too many nuts who don't know how to be reasonable, unfortunately he and other nuts ruin it for everybody.
I agree with everything you said, except I'm not 100% sure it was because the kid was black. May have been, but also may not have mattered.
Something seriously wrong with that guy.
I agree that maybe it wasn't a 100% race issue but maybe more of a class issue. This guy seems like he would have used his gun on anyone that didn't look like they lived in that community. I think Zimmerman was looking for a bad guy and to use his gun that night. I think he would have used it on anybody that looked poor whether white or black.
Though the media and corporate America will try to make it a race issue when it really is a gun issue. Sorry but this is exactly why people should not have access to guns; because they're are too many nuts who don't know how to be reasonable, unfortunately he and other nuts ruin it for everybody.
I have to ask a question how do you tell if a person looks poor or look like they live in a gated community? What is the make up of the community....are they few blacks there that's one way to tell he doesn't belong? I live in a gated community and for the most part we never lock our doors or cars or anything. i mean was crime that high or rampant in this community for this kind of vigirous community watch?
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
interesting.....the sheriff just got a vote of no confidence and the city manager is either going to ask for his resignation of fire him....the public pressure is getting pretty intense now....
Sanford Commission Votes 'No Confidence' In Chief Lee
City Manager Issues Statement With Chief Q&A On Trayvon Martin Case
SANFORD, Fla. -- The Sanford City Commission passed a vote of "no confidence" in police Chief Bill Lee Wednesday night.
City Manager Norton N. Bonaparte Jr. will decide whether to ask for the chief's resignation or fire him. If Bonaparte decides to do neither, he can then be held accountable for any future problems with the chief.
Lee became a target of advocates pleading for justice in the shooting
death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin at the hands of neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman last week.
"Although the Police Department is the target of the troubling questions, let me assure you we too feel the pain of this senseless tragedy that has dramatically affected our community," Bonaparte said in a statement. "Therefore, as we move forward and strive to answer the questions that are a point of controversy in the community, we ask for your patience, understanding and assistance in getting the correct information to the community."
Bonaparte issued a release addressed to "Fellow Citizens" listing the chief's answers to some of the most frequently asked questions in the Trayvon Martin case, including why George Zimmerman wasn't arrested the night of the shooting.
"When the Sanford Police Department arrived at the scene of the incident, Mr. Zimmerman provided a statement claiming he acted in self-defense, which at the time was supported by physical evidence and testimony," the chief responded. "By Florida Statute, law enforcement was PROHIBITED from making an arrest based on the facts and circumstances they had at the time."
Fellow Citizens:
There has been a lot of media attention to the recent incident where George Zimmerman shot and
killed Trayvon Martin. This is indeed a tragic situation and has caused a flood of questions and
strong emotions from within our community, the region and nation. On behalf of the employees
of the City of Sanford, Our deepest sympathy and prayers go out to the family and friends of
Trayvon Martin. As a father, I can only image the pain Trayvon’s family must be going though.
In an effort to continue to be as responsive as possible to the public seeking information on the
incident, I have asked Chief Lee to provide answers to some of the most frequently asked
questions regarding this matter. Below are his responses. Please understand that since this is
still an ongoing investigation, the Police Department is limited in what information it can
publicly release.
The City of Sanford is committed to insuring that justice is served and, therefore, the City of
Sanford has contacted the United States Attorney General’s Office for assistance in this matter.
The men and women of the Sanford Police Department extend our heartfelt sympathies to the
Martin family. This is indeed a tragic situation. The death of anyone due to violence, especially a
17 year old young man, is morally appalling. As this incident has generated a lot of media
attention, we wanted to provide answers to some of the most frequently asked questions.
Why was George Zimmerman not arrested the night of the shooting?
When the Sanford Police Department arrived at the scene of the incident, Mr. Zimmerman
provided a statement claiming he acted in self defense which at the time was supported by
physical evidence and testimony. By Florida Statute, law enforcement was PROHIBITED from
making an arrest based on the facts and circumstances they had at the time. Additionally, when
any police officer makes an arrest for any reason, the officer MUST swear and affirm that he/she
is making the arrest in good faith and with probable cause. If the arrest is done maliciously and
in bad faith, the officer and the City may be held liable.
According to Florida Statute 776.032 :
776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of
force.—
(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is
justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for
the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law
enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of
his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with
any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that
the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal
prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the
defendant.
(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of
force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using
force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was
unlawful.
Why the 911 tapes are not yet released?
There are exemptions to the public records laws for active criminal intelligence and for ongoing
investigations. In this instance, the 911 calls made by neighbors in the subdivision, and the nonemergency
call made by Mr. Zimmerman are all key to the investigation by Sanford Police
Department. In consultation with the Office of the State Attorney, the Sanford police department
has decided not to release the audio recordings of the 911 calls due to the ongoing investigation.
Many times, specific information is contained in those recordings which is vital to the integrity
of the investigation. Should it be revealed, the information may compromise the integrity of the
investigation prior to its completion.
Why did Mr. Zimmerman have a firearm in his possession while acting in the role of a
neighborhood watch member?
Mr. Zimmerman holds a concealed weapon permit issued from the State of Florida. He is
authorized to carry the weapon in a concealed manner wherever Florida Statute dictates.
Neighborhood Watch programs are designed for members of a neighborhood to be “eyes and
ears” for police and to watch out for their neighbors. They are not members of the Police
Department nor are they vigilantes. Training provided by law enforcement agencies to
Neighborhood Watch organizations stresses non-contact surveillance of suspicious situations and
notifying police of those situations so that law enforcement can respond and take control of the
situation.
Mr. Zimmerman was not acting outside the legal boundaries of Florida Statute by carrying his
weapon when this incident occurred. He was in fact on a personal errand in his vehicle when he
observed Mr. Martin in the community and called the Sanford Police Department.
If Zimmerman was told not to continue to follow Trayvon, can that be considered in this
investigation?
Yes it will; however, the telecommunications call taker asked Zimmerman “are you following
him”. Zimmerman replied, “yes”. The call taker stated “you don’t need to do that”. The call
taker’s suggestion is not a lawful order that Mr. Zimmerman would be required to follow.
Zimmerman’s statement was that he had lost sight of Trayvon and was returning to his truck to
meet the police officer when he says he was attacked by Trayvon.
Why was George Zimmerman labeled as “squeaky clean” when in fact he has a prior
arrest history?
In one of the initial meetings with the father of the victim the investigator related to him the
account that Mr. Zimmerman provided of the incident. At that time the investigator said that Mr.
Zimmerman portrayed himself to be “squeaky clean”. We are aware of the background
information regarding both individuals involved in this event. We believe Mr. Martin may have
misconstrued this information.
What about media reenactments of the shooting incident?
Any media reenactments of the shooting incident are purely speculation. To date the Sanford
Police Department has not released any rendition of the events of the evening to anyone other
than the Office of the State Attorney. The renditions we have seen are not consistent with the
evidence in this case.
The Sanford Police Department has conducted a complete and fair investigation of this incident.
We have provided the results of our investigation to the Office of the State Attorney for their
review and consideration for possible criminal prosecution.
Although the Police Department is the target of the troubling questions, let me assure you we too
feel the pain of this senseless tragedy that has dramatically affected our community. Therefore,
as we move forward and strive to answer the questions that are a point of controversy in the
community, we ask for your patience, understanding and assistance in getting the correct
information to the community.
Thank you,
Norton N. Bonaparte, Jr., ICMA-CM
City Manager
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
I have to ask a question how do you tell if a person looks poor or look like they live in a gated community? What is the make up of the community....are they few blacks there that's one way to tell he doesn't belong? I live in a gated community and for the most part we never lock our doors or cars of anything. i mean was crime that high or rampant in this community for this kind of vigirous community watch?
Peace
I read a report that this guy had made 50 911 calls since the beginning of this year and that some of his neighbors were afraid of his over zealousness as block captain. Often times people confuse racial prejudices with class prejudices.
I think that if the person was wearing a suit & tie or such; maybe he wouldn't have shot him? Though this guy seems fairly unbalanced period, so who knows.
sorry homeslice, gonna have to disagree with you here. there are millions of people that own guns and that don't go out shooting people and commiting crimes. there is no reason that they should have their guns taken away because of the choices of others. people kill other people every single day because of drinking and driving, your logic suggests we should ban cars and alcohol as well. right? a few bad people have to ruin it for everyone? people have been beaten to death with baseball bats, stabbed to death with steak knives and suffocated to death with pillows. not only will banning all these things not make them disappear, but it certainly won't destroy the intent to do harm that people will always have.
Though the media and corporate America will try to make it a race issue when it really is a gun issue. Sorry but this is exactly why people should not have access to guns; because they're are too many nuts who don't know how to be reasonable, unfortunately he and other nuts ruin it for everybody.[/quote]
if you think what I believe is stupid, bizarre, ridiculous or outrageous.....it's ok, I think I had a brain tumor when I wrote that.
I agree that maybe it wasn't a 100% race issue but maybe more of a class issue. This guy seems like he would have used his gun on anyone that didn't look like they lived in that community. I think Zimmerman was looking for a bad guy and to use his gun that night. I think he would have used it on anybody that looked poor whether white or black.
Though the media and corporate America will try to make it a race issue when it really is a gun issue. Sorry but this is exactly why people should not have access to guns; because they're are too many nuts who don't know how to be reasonable, unfortunately he and other nuts ruin it for everybody.
First paragraph - even part of the second - you make sense, since I'm just not sure it was an entirely racially-motivated act.
I was with you until the end.
SOME people should not have access to guns.
I can't condone the few-dipshits-ruining-shit-for-everyone perspective.
I'd rather deal with those few dipshits, like Mr. Zimmerman.
On another note, the dispatcher asked "white black or hispanic"... So glad I'll never get caught in FL there's no asian option. (I don't know why that question struck me as odd)
I guess I mean, I know that there are an overwhelming number of blacks, whites, hispanics, (and old people) in Florida, I suppose I would have expected the dispatcher to say what's his ethnicity or something like that
Outrage at the death of Trayvon Martin is finally lifting the lid on the US's racist underbelly
Gary Younge
guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 21 March 2012
The second world war had a civilising influence on Buford Posey, a white man raised in the Deep South during the Depression. "When I was coming up in Mississippi I never knew it was against the law to kill a black man," he says. "I learned that when I went in the army. I was 17 years old. When they told me I thought they were joking."
Some 70 years later it's clear not everybody got that memo. Three weeks ago in Sanford, Florida, a neighbourhood watch captain, George Zimmerman, shot dead an unarmed black teen, Trayvon Martin, as he walked home from the store. Zimmerman, who is Latino, called the emergency services because he thought Martin, 17, looked "suspicious" and then, against the advice of the dispatcher, followed him. The two men fought. Martin died. Zimmerman emerged, bleeding from the nose and the back of his head, claiming he shot Martin in self-defence because he was in fear of his life.
Zimmerman was neither charged nor arrested. Under Florida's "stand your ground" statute, deadly force is permitted if the person "reasonably believes" it is necessary to protect their own life, the life of another or to prevent a forcible felony. Zimmerman weighs 250lbs and had a 9mm handgun; Martin weighed 140lbs and had a packet of Skittles and a can of iced tea. Being a young black male, it seems, is reason enough.
One can only speculate as to Zimmerman's intentions. Efforts to create a crude morality play around this shooting in which Martin is sanctified and Zimmerman is pathologised miss the point. Zimmerman's assumptions on seeing Martin may have been reprehensible but they were not illogical. Black men in America are more likely to be stopped, searched, arrested, convicted and executed than any other group. With almost one in 10 black men behind bars there are more of them in prison, on probation or on parole today than were enslaved in 1850. To assume that when you see a black man you see a criminal is rooted in the fact that black men have been systematically criminalised. That excuses nothing but explains a great deal.
Add to this lax gun laws, entrenched segregation, deep economic inequalities and a statute that endorses vigilantism, and a murder of this kind is inevitable. Indeed what makes Martin's case noteworthy is not that it happened but that it has sparked such widespread indignation beyond his immediate community. It is not at all uncommon for young black men to leave the world in a shower of bullets followed by deafening silence.
Eight kids under the age of 19 are killed by guns in America every day. While researching the stories of those who fell one November day in 2006 I ran across the story of Brandon Moore. Brandon was 16 when he was shot in the back in the middle of the afternoon by an off-duty cop moonlighting as a security guard in Detroit. The guard had previously shot a man dead during a neighbourhood fracas, shot his wife (though not fatally) in a domestic dispute and had been involved in a fatal hit-and-run car accident while under the influence of alcohol. Brandon's death was dismissed in the city's two main newspapers in less than 200 words. They never even mentioned his name. Brandon's death was ruled to be justifiable homicide. A year later the guard was still in the police force.
"We're deemed not reportable," said Clementina Chery, who runs the Boston-based Louis D Brown Peace Institute, which assists families in the immediate aftermath of shootings and works in schools to educate people about gun violence. "Black children are dispensable. Violence is expected to happen in these communities."
Thanks to the escalating outrage at Martin's death an investigation has now been launched by the US department of justice, and the state attorney's office will be sending it to a grand jury. It took three weeks, outrage and the mobilisation of thousands of people to make that happen. Apparently the facts alone did not warrant further inquiry.
The question now is whether Martin's case can gain the attention at the highest levels of the American polity. In 2009 when a well known African American Harvard professor, Henry Louis Gates Jr, was arrested while trying to get into his own home, Obama made his views known in a clumsy intervention that ended in him staging a "beer summit" with Gates and the arresting officer.
Given how rarely Obama refers to issues of race and how much there is to refer to, it was strange that he would spend his considerable moral capital in this area to defend a tenured Harvard professor whom he knew, and who was detained for a few hours.
We'll never know if Martin could have become a Harvard professor. But it would be nice to think that his short life and brutal death would receive the same kind of presidential attention.
The recording of the 911 Call from the "witness" who did not want to go out side is enough to make me sick. And it DEFINITELY should be enough to put this loathable night watchman behind bars for murder.
Could the woman on the other end of the phone be more annoying with her stupid fucking questions?
The recording of the 911 Call from the "witness" who did not want to go out side is enough to make me sick. And it DEFINITELY should be enough to put this loathable night watchman behind bars for murder.
Could the woman on the other end of the phone be more annoying with her stupid fucking questions?
1 of 8 calls and no one could help the poor kid?
Although someone wielding a gun it's hard to pass judgement I guess.
sorry homeslice, gonna have to disagree with you here. there are millions of people that own guns and that don't go out shooting people and commiting crimes. there is no reason that they should have their guns taken away because of the choices of others. people kill other people every single day because of drinking and driving, your logic suggests we should ban cars and alcohol as well. right? a few bad people have to ruin it for everyone? people have been beaten to death with baseball bats, stabbed to death with steak knives and suffocated to death with pillows. not only will banning all these things not make them disappear, but it certainly won't destroy the intent to do harm that people will always have.
Though the media and corporate America will try to make it a race issue when it really is a gun issue. Sorry but this is exactly why people should not have access to guns; because they're are too many nuts who don't know how to be reasonable, unfortunately he and other nuts ruin it for everybody.
[/quote]
I understand that there are many reasonable people that own guns as I did point out, I just so disgusted with gun violence that I'm willing to just say get rid of guns; which as you point out is unreasonable. You are mistaken on my logic. I think you gave a poor comparison to baseball bats and bars and even steak knives as there are other uses for them. Guns are simply at a point where to many nuts have access to them and they are used to kill and nothing else. Gun ranges are fine but just leave them there. Perhaps we just need stronger laws to keep them away from the disturbed people. I think we can agree on that?
the more i'm reading about this ... the more evident it is that the main problem is this "stand your ground" law ... and for that - we can thank the NRA ... sooo - you gun advocates ... you're shooting yourself in the foot here ... pun intended ...
this law is opposed by every state attorney's office because it basically allows for cold blooded murder ... you want someone dead ... go up to him and kill him and say it was self-defense ... the guy is dead and you would be the only witness ... what a seriously fucked up law ... so, thank the NRA and Jeb Bush for this death and recognize how utterly stupid people get to protect their so called "rights" ...
the more i'm reading about this ... the more evident it is that the main problem is this "stand your ground" law ... and for that - we can thank the NRA ... sooo - you gun advocates ... you're shooting yourself in the foot here ... pun intended ...
this law is opposed by every state attorney's office because it basically allows for cold blooded murder ... you want someone dead ... go up to him and kill him and say it was self-defense ... the guy is dead and you would be the only witness ... what a seriously fucked up law ... so, thank the NRA and Jeb Bush for this death and recognize how utterly stupid people get to protect their so called "rights" ...
you're trying to put the blame on the NRA and Jeb Bush ? what about holding people accountable for their own actions ? seems there is plenty of evidense to hang this douch by his short and curlys, he ran after trayvon and shot and killed him without provacation not the NRA or Jeb Bush,you shouldn't let your dislike for a group or persons cloud your judgment,the shooter was clearly wrong and there is evidense to prove that so pointing fingers in all directions will not make this guys actions any worse than they already are or make trayvons mother and father feel any better,this was a crime commited by one man not a group.
the more i'm reading about this ... the more evident it is that the main problem is this "stand your ground" law ... and for that - we can thank the NRA ... sooo - you gun advocates ... you're shooting yourself in the foot here ... pun intended ...
this law is opposed by every state attorney's office because it basically allows for cold blooded murder ... you want someone dead ... go up to him and kill him and say it was self-defense ... the guy is dead and you would be the only witness ... what a seriously fucked up law ... so, thank the NRA and Jeb Bush for this death and recognize how utterly stupid people get to protect their so called "rights" ...
you're trying to put the blame on the NRA and Jeb Bush ? what about holding people accountable for their own actions ? seems there is plenty of evidense to hang this douch by his short and curlys, he ran after trayvon and shot and killed him without provacation not the NRA or Jeb Bush,you shouldn't let your dislike for a group or persons cloud your judgment,the shooter was clearly wrong and there is evidense to prove that so pointing fingers in all directions will not make this guys actions any worse than they already are or make trayvons mother and father feel any better,this was a crime commited by one man not a group.
Godfather.
But according to the 'Stand your ground' law, it may not be a crime... And if this guy gets off because of the language of that law, Jeb and the NRA should absolutely be held accountable for that.
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
you're trying to put the blame on the NRA and Jeb Bush ? what about holding people accountable for their own actions ? seems there is plenty of evidense to hang this douch by his short and curlys, he ran after trayvon and shot and killed him without provacation not the NRA or Jeb Bush,you shouldn't let your dislike for a group or persons cloud your judgment,the shooter was clearly wrong and there is evidense to prove that so pointing fingers in all directions will not make this guys actions any worse than they already are or make trayvons mother and father feel any better,this was a crime commited by one man not a group.
Godfather.
dude ... the very reason why he is free now is because of this law ... "justifiable" homicides tripled in a state that had no apparent problem with homicides ... you shouldn't like your support for a group blind you to the problems ... every state attorneys office is vehemently opposed to this law because it allows people like Zimmerman to commit acts like this without consequence ...
the more i'm reading about this ... the more evident it is that the main problem is this "stand your ground" law ... and for that - we can thank the NRA ... sooo - you gun advocates ... you're shooting yourself in the foot here ... pun intended ...
this law is opposed by every state attorney's office because it basically allows for cold blooded murder ... you want someone dead ... go up to him and kill him and say it was self-defense ... the guy is dead and you would be the only witness ... what a seriously fucked up law ... so, thank the NRA and Jeb Bush for this death and recognize how utterly stupid people get to protect their so called "rights" ...
It certainly is a fucked up law. I read something a few months back about a guy who got out of his car (road rage) and approached another guys car, and banged on the window (stupid). The driver shot him dead and got off scott free.
Granted, the guy should've never approached that car, but should he have been shot dead? It's gotten wild wild west-like down here.
It certainly is a fucked up law. I read something a few months back about a guy who got out of his car (road rage) and approached another guys car, and banged on the window (stupid). The driver shot him dead and got off scott free.
Granted, the guy should've never approached that car, but should he have been shot dead? It's gotten wild wild west-like down here.
ya ... on cbc up here last nite they had a state attorney talking about the case ... wasn't quite like you said tho - the victim got into it with some people at a bar ... as he was going home the car with the other people drove past him and they circled back and threatened to shoot him ... dumbass should have left but he "apparently" tried to take the gun away and they shot him ...
it's that tussle that makes all the difference ... they could have shot him point blank as long as no one else was looking ... and all they would have to say is ... self defense - he reached in ...
The more I think about this, the worse it fucking is. This kid was followed while doing nothing wrong, confronted, probably defended himself and then was fucking shot to death, all because he was black and walking down the street at night. A 17 year old good student dead because he was black and some fuck face had a hard on and a gun.
Edit: And there is no way that big fuck had to use a gun against a scrawny unarmed 17 year old. This fuck is going to rot in jail and it's going to be awesome.
I agree with everything you said, except I'm not 100% sure it was because the kid was black. May have been, but also may not have mattered.
Something seriously wrong with that guy.
I wish I could agree with you on that. I just don't see this guy doing to those lengths if it were a white 17 year old kid. And yes, something is seriously wrong with him.
The more I think about this, the worse it fucking is. This kid was followed while doing nothing wrong, confronted, probably defended himself and then was fucking shot to death, all because he was black and walking down the street at night. A 17 year old good student dead because he was black and some fuck face had a hard on and a gun.
Edit: And there is no way that big fuck had to use a gun against a scrawny unarmed 17 year old. This fuck is going to rot in jail and it's going to be awesome.
I agree with everything you said, except I'm not 100% sure it was because the kid was black. May have been, but also may not have mattered.
Something seriously wrong with that guy.
I wish I could agree with you on that. I just don't see this guy doing to those lengths if it were a white 17 year old kid. And yes, something is seriously wrong with him.
What if it went down the same way and Trayvon was white? Would Zimmerman be in jail already?
This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
The more I think about this, the worse it fucking is. This kid was followed while doing nothing wrong, confronted, probably defended himself and then was fucking shot to death, all because he was black and walking down the street at night. A 17 year old good student dead because he was black and some fuck face had a hard on and a gun.
Edit: And there is no way that big fuck had to use a gun against a scrawny unarmed 17 year old. This fuck is going to rot in jail and it's going to be awesome.
I agree with everything you said, except I'm not 100% sure it was because the kid was black. May have been, but also may not have mattered.
I wish I could agree with you on that. I just don't see this guy doing to those lengths if it were a white 17 year old kid. And yes, something is seriously wrong with him.
What if it went down the same way and Trayvon was white? Would Zimmerman be in jail already?
Yes he probably would be...at the very least they would have done a drug test and background check on Zimmerman also. In reality they made sure they did a drug test and background check on the dead Trayvon.
peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
1."I think the hoodie is as much responsible for Trayvon Martin's death as George Zimmerman was."
2."I'll bet you money, if he didn't have that hoodie on, that nutty neighborhood watchguy would have never responded in that violent and aggressive way."
3."I am urging the parents of black and Latino youngsters particularly to not let their children go out wearing hoodies."
4."He wore an outfit (Trayvon Martin) that allowed someone to respond in this irrational, overzealous way, and if he had been dressed more appropriately. I believe unless it's raining or at a track meet leave the hoodie at home."
5."You know the old Johnny Cash song 'don't take your gun to town son, leave your gun at home.' There are some things that are almost inevitable."
1."I think the hoodie is as much responsible for Trayvon Martin's death as George Zimmerman was."
2."I'll bet you money, if he didn't have that hoodie on, that nutty neighborhood watchguy would have never responded in that violent and aggressive way."
3."I am urging the parents of black and Latino youngsters particularly to not let their children go out wearing hoodies."
4."He wore an outfit (Trayvon Martin) that allowed someone to respond in this irrational, overzealous way, and if he had been dressed more appropriately. I believe unless it's raining or at a track meet leave the hoodie at home."
5."You know the old Johnny Cash song 'don't take your gun to town son, leave your gun at home.' There are some things that are almost inevitable."
(the link as video)
My comment: Geraldo Rivera is a fucking putz...
Hahahahaha...this is great.
And those girls that get raped, they shouldn't have worn those high heels, mini skirts, and cleavage showing tops!!!!
Comments
My first thoughts after seeing Zimmerman's picture is that he looks like a BIG guy, and Trayvon looks pretty tiny. Self defense? REALLY?
I just listened to the 911 call.. i'm in agreement with those saying he chased the poor kid down. I just don't understand why this wouldn't be an automatic investigation... If it didn't get the media coverage it did, would they have done anything about it? It feels bizarre. I mean, shit happens up here too, but sometimes I am really surprised at some of the things that go on in the states :shock:
On another note, the dispatcher asked "white black or hispanic"... So glad I'll never get caught in FL
http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/ ... 2s0697.pdf
for justice.
I don't get why the guy is not in jail yet...
at least that is what the 5pm news said.
A young life gone, parents broken, a neighborhood in conflict
why again?
cause the shooter presumed he was a bad kid, bad enough to kill :?
the article said he called the cops how many times 46...
in a little over a year ... red flag... was the neighborhood that bad?
He might be mentally ill or paranoid.
Edit....
Just heard this am on the Today show that it 46 times since 2004
I guess background checks on neighborhood watch captains now :wtf:
http://www.wesh.com/hometest/30734271/detail.html
Something I didn't know a background check was done on Trayvon and a drug test NONE was done on Zimmerman. No wonder they were given a no vote of confidence.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I agree that maybe it wasn't a 100% race issue but maybe more of a class issue. This guy seems like he would have used his gun on anyone that didn't look like they lived in that community. I think Zimmerman was looking for a bad guy and to use his gun that night. I think he would have used it on anybody that looked poor whether white or black.
Though the media and corporate America will try to make it a race issue when it really is a gun issue. Sorry but this is exactly why people should not have access to guns; because they're are too many nuts who don't know how to be reasonable, unfortunately he and other nuts ruin it for everybody.
I have to ask a question how do you tell if a person looks poor or look like they live in a gated community? What is the make up of the community....are they few blacks there that's one way to tell he doesn't belong? I live in a gated community and for the most part we never lock our doors or cars or anything. i mean was crime that high or rampant in this community for this kind of vigirous community watch?
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Sanford Commission Votes 'No Confidence' In Chief Lee
City Manager Issues Statement With Chief Q&A On Trayvon Martin Case
Read more: http://www.wesh.com/news/30734271/detai ... z1pnjYySgE
SANFORD, Fla. -- The Sanford City Commission passed a vote of "no confidence" in police Chief Bill Lee Wednesday night.
City Manager Norton N. Bonaparte Jr. will decide whether to ask for the chief's resignation or fire him. If Bonaparte decides to do neither, he can then be held accountable for any future problems with the chief.
Lee became a target of advocates pleading for justice in the shooting
death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin at the hands of neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman last week.
"Although the Police Department is the target of the troubling questions, let me assure you we too feel the pain of this senseless tragedy that has dramatically affected our community," Bonaparte said in a statement. "Therefore, as we move forward and strive to answer the questions that are a point of controversy in the community, we ask for your patience, understanding and assistance in getting the correct information to the community."
Bonaparte issued a release addressed to "Fellow Citizens" listing the chief's answers to some of the most frequently asked questions in the Trayvon Martin case, including why George Zimmerman wasn't arrested the night of the shooting.
"When the Sanford Police Department arrived at the scene of the incident, Mr. Zimmerman provided a statement claiming he acted in self-defense, which at the time was supported by physical evidence and testimony," the chief responded. "By Florida Statute, law enforcement was PROHIBITED from making an arrest based on the facts and circumstances they had at the time."
here is the full statement from the sheriff...
http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/ ... ooting.pdf
Fellow Citizens:
There has been a lot of media attention to the recent incident where George Zimmerman shot and
killed Trayvon Martin. This is indeed a tragic situation and has caused a flood of questions and
strong emotions from within our community, the region and nation. On behalf of the employees
of the City of Sanford, Our deepest sympathy and prayers go out to the family and friends of
Trayvon Martin. As a father, I can only image the pain Trayvon’s family must be going though.
In an effort to continue to be as responsive as possible to the public seeking information on the
incident, I have asked Chief Lee to provide answers to some of the most frequently asked
questions regarding this matter. Below are his responses. Please understand that since this is
still an ongoing investigation, the Police Department is limited in what information it can
publicly release.
The City of Sanford is committed to insuring that justice is served and, therefore, the City of
Sanford has contacted the United States Attorney General’s Office for assistance in this matter.
The men and women of the Sanford Police Department extend our heartfelt sympathies to the
Martin family. This is indeed a tragic situation. The death of anyone due to violence, especially a
17 year old young man, is morally appalling. As this incident has generated a lot of media
attention, we wanted to provide answers to some of the most frequently asked questions.
Why was George Zimmerman not arrested the night of the shooting?
When the Sanford Police Department arrived at the scene of the incident, Mr. Zimmerman
provided a statement claiming he acted in self defense which at the time was supported by
physical evidence and testimony. By Florida Statute, law enforcement was PROHIBITED from
making an arrest based on the facts and circumstances they had at the time. Additionally, when
any police officer makes an arrest for any reason, the officer MUST swear and affirm that he/she
is making the arrest in good faith and with probable cause. If the arrest is done maliciously and
in bad faith, the officer and the City may be held liable.
According to Florida Statute 776.032 :
776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of
force.—
(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is
justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for
the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law
enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of
his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with
any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that
the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal
prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the
defendant.
(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of
force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using
force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was
unlawful.
Why the 911 tapes are not yet released?
There are exemptions to the public records laws for active criminal intelligence and for ongoing
investigations. In this instance, the 911 calls made by neighbors in the subdivision, and the nonemergency
call made by Mr. Zimmerman are all key to the investigation by Sanford Police
Department. In consultation with the Office of the State Attorney, the Sanford police department
has decided not to release the audio recordings of the 911 calls due to the ongoing investigation.
Many times, specific information is contained in those recordings which is vital to the integrity
of the investigation. Should it be revealed, the information may compromise the integrity of the
investigation prior to its completion.
Why did Mr. Zimmerman have a firearm in his possession while acting in the role of a
neighborhood watch member?
Mr. Zimmerman holds a concealed weapon permit issued from the State of Florida. He is
authorized to carry the weapon in a concealed manner wherever Florida Statute dictates.
Neighborhood Watch programs are designed for members of a neighborhood to be “eyes and
ears” for police and to watch out for their neighbors. They are not members of the Police
Department nor are they vigilantes. Training provided by law enforcement agencies to
Neighborhood Watch organizations stresses non-contact surveillance of suspicious situations and
notifying police of those situations so that law enforcement can respond and take control of the
situation.
Mr. Zimmerman was not acting outside the legal boundaries of Florida Statute by carrying his
weapon when this incident occurred. He was in fact on a personal errand in his vehicle when he
observed Mr. Martin in the community and called the Sanford Police Department.
If Zimmerman was told not to continue to follow Trayvon, can that be considered in this
investigation?
Yes it will; however, the telecommunications call taker asked Zimmerman “are you following
him”. Zimmerman replied, “yes”. The call taker stated “you don’t need to do that”. The call
taker’s suggestion is not a lawful order that Mr. Zimmerman would be required to follow.
Zimmerman’s statement was that he had lost sight of Trayvon and was returning to his truck to
meet the police officer when he says he was attacked by Trayvon.
Why was George Zimmerman labeled as “squeaky clean” when in fact he has a prior
arrest history?
In one of the initial meetings with the father of the victim the investigator related to him the
account that Mr. Zimmerman provided of the incident. At that time the investigator said that Mr.
Zimmerman portrayed himself to be “squeaky clean”. We are aware of the background
information regarding both individuals involved in this event. We believe Mr. Martin may have
misconstrued this information.
What about media reenactments of the shooting incident?
Any media reenactments of the shooting incident are purely speculation. To date the Sanford
Police Department has not released any rendition of the events of the evening to anyone other
than the Office of the State Attorney. The renditions we have seen are not consistent with the
evidence in this case.
The Sanford Police Department has conducted a complete and fair investigation of this incident.
We have provided the results of our investigation to the Office of the State Attorney for their
review and consideration for possible criminal prosecution.
Although the Police Department is the target of the troubling questions, let me assure you we too
feel the pain of this senseless tragedy that has dramatically affected our community. Therefore,
as we move forward and strive to answer the questions that are a point of controversy in the
community, we ask for your patience, understanding and assistance in getting the correct
information to the community.
Thank you,
Norton N. Bonaparte, Jr., ICMA-CM
City Manager
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I read a report that this guy had made 50 911 calls since the beginning of this year and that some of his neighbors were afraid of his over zealousness as block captain. Often times people confuse racial prejudices with class prejudices.
I think that if the person was wearing a suit & tie or such; maybe he wouldn't have shot him? Though this guy seems fairly unbalanced period, so who knows.
Though the media and corporate America will try to make it a race issue when it really is a gun issue. Sorry but this is exactly why people should not have access to guns; because they're are too many nuts who don't know how to be reasonable, unfortunately he and other nuts ruin it for everybody.[/quote]
I was with you until the end.
SOME people should not have access to guns.
I can't condone the few-dipshits-ruining-shit-for-everyone perspective.
I'd rather deal with those few dipshits, like Mr. Zimmerman.
My heart goes out to young Trayvon's family.
I guess I mean, I know that there are an overwhelming number of blacks, whites, hispanics, (and old people) in Florida, I suppose I would have expected the dispatcher to say what's his ethnicity or something like that
Trayvon Martin: a killing too far
Outrage at the death of Trayvon Martin is finally lifting the lid on the US's racist underbelly
Gary Younge
guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 21 March 2012
The second world war had a civilising influence on Buford Posey, a white man raised in the Deep South during the Depression. "When I was coming up in Mississippi I never knew it was against the law to kill a black man," he says. "I learned that when I went in the army. I was 17 years old. When they told me I thought they were joking."
Some 70 years later it's clear not everybody got that memo. Three weeks ago in Sanford, Florida, a neighbourhood watch captain, George Zimmerman, shot dead an unarmed black teen, Trayvon Martin, as he walked home from the store. Zimmerman, who is Latino, called the emergency services because he thought Martin, 17, looked "suspicious" and then, against the advice of the dispatcher, followed him. The two men fought. Martin died. Zimmerman emerged, bleeding from the nose and the back of his head, claiming he shot Martin in self-defence because he was in fear of his life.
Zimmerman was neither charged nor arrested. Under Florida's "stand your ground" statute, deadly force is permitted if the person "reasonably believes" it is necessary to protect their own life, the life of another or to prevent a forcible felony. Zimmerman weighs 250lbs and had a 9mm handgun; Martin weighed 140lbs and had a packet of Skittles and a can of iced tea. Being a young black male, it seems, is reason enough.
One can only speculate as to Zimmerman's intentions. Efforts to create a crude morality play around this shooting in which Martin is sanctified and Zimmerman is pathologised miss the point. Zimmerman's assumptions on seeing Martin may have been reprehensible but they were not illogical. Black men in America are more likely to be stopped, searched, arrested, convicted and executed than any other group. With almost one in 10 black men behind bars there are more of them in prison, on probation or on parole today than were enslaved in 1850. To assume that when you see a black man you see a criminal is rooted in the fact that black men have been systematically criminalised. That excuses nothing but explains a great deal.
Add to this lax gun laws, entrenched segregation, deep economic inequalities and a statute that endorses vigilantism, and a murder of this kind is inevitable. Indeed what makes Martin's case noteworthy is not that it happened but that it has sparked such widespread indignation beyond his immediate community. It is not at all uncommon for young black men to leave the world in a shower of bullets followed by deafening silence.
Eight kids under the age of 19 are killed by guns in America every day. While researching the stories of those who fell one November day in 2006 I ran across the story of Brandon Moore. Brandon was 16 when he was shot in the back in the middle of the afternoon by an off-duty cop moonlighting as a security guard in Detroit. The guard had previously shot a man dead during a neighbourhood fracas, shot his wife (though not fatally) in a domestic dispute and had been involved in a fatal hit-and-run car accident while under the influence of alcohol. Brandon's death was dismissed in the city's two main newspapers in less than 200 words. They never even mentioned his name. Brandon's death was ruled to be justifiable homicide. A year later the guard was still in the police force.
"We're deemed not reportable," said Clementina Chery, who runs the Boston-based Louis D Brown Peace Institute, which assists families in the immediate aftermath of shootings and works in schools to educate people about gun violence. "Black children are dispensable. Violence is expected to happen in these communities."
Thanks to the escalating outrage at Martin's death an investigation has now been launched by the US department of justice, and the state attorney's office will be sending it to a grand jury. It took three weeks, outrage and the mobilisation of thousands of people to make that happen. Apparently the facts alone did not warrant further inquiry.
The question now is whether Martin's case can gain the attention at the highest levels of the American polity. In 2009 when a well known African American Harvard professor, Henry Louis Gates Jr, was arrested while trying to get into his own home, Obama made his views known in a clumsy intervention that ended in him staging a "beer summit" with Gates and the arresting officer.
Given how rarely Obama refers to issues of race and how much there is to refer to, it was strange that he would spend his considerable moral capital in this area to defend a tenured Harvard professor whom he knew, and who was detained for a few hours.
We'll never know if Martin could have become a Harvard professor. But it would be nice to think that his short life and brutal death would receive the same kind of presidential attention.
Could the woman on the other end of the phone be more annoying with her stupid fucking questions?
Although someone wielding a gun it's hard to pass judgement I guess.
I understand that there are many reasonable people that own guns as I did point out, I just so disgusted with gun violence that I'm willing to just say get rid of guns; which as you point out is unreasonable. You are mistaken on my logic. I think you gave a poor comparison to baseball bats and bars and even steak knives as there are other uses for them. Guns are simply at a point where to many nuts have access to them and they are used to kill and nothing else. Gun ranges are fine but just leave them there. Perhaps we just need stronger laws to keep them away from the disturbed people. I think we can agree on that?
this law is opposed by every state attorney's office because it basically allows for cold blooded murder ... you want someone dead ... go up to him and kill him and say it was self-defense ... the guy is dead and you would be the only witness ... what a seriously fucked up law ... so, thank the NRA and Jeb Bush for this death and recognize how utterly stupid people get to protect their so called "rights" ...
you're trying to put the blame on the NRA and Jeb Bush ? what about holding people accountable for their own actions ? seems there is plenty of evidense to hang this douch by his short and curlys, he ran after trayvon and shot and killed him without provacation not the NRA or Jeb Bush,you shouldn't let your dislike for a group or persons cloud your judgment,the shooter was clearly wrong and there is evidense to prove that so pointing fingers in all directions will not make this guys actions any worse than they already are or make trayvons mother and father feel any better,this was a crime commited by one man not a group.
Godfather.
dude ... the very reason why he is free now is because of this law ... "justifiable" homicides tripled in a state that had no apparent problem with homicides ... you shouldn't like your support for a group blind you to the problems ... every state attorneys office is vehemently opposed to this law because it allows people like Zimmerman to commit acts like this without consequence ...
It certainly is a fucked up law. I read something a few months back about a guy who got out of his car (road rage) and approached another guys car, and banged on the window (stupid). The driver shot him dead and got off scott free.
Granted, the guy should've never approached that car, but should he have been shot dead? It's gotten wild wild west-like down here.
ya ... on cbc up here last nite they had a state attorney talking about the case ... wasn't quite like you said tho - the victim got into it with some people at a bar ... as he was going home the car with the other people drove past him and they circled back and threatened to shoot him ... dumbass should have left but he "apparently" tried to take the gun away and they shot him ...
it's that tussle that makes all the difference ... they could have shot him point blank as long as no one else was looking ... and all they would have to say is ... self defense - he reached in ...
I wish I could agree with you on that. I just don't see this guy doing to those lengths if it were a white 17 year old kid. And yes, something is seriously wrong with him.
What if it went down the same way and Trayvon was white? Would Zimmerman be in jail already?
Yes he probably would be...at the very least they would have done a drug test and background check on Zimmerman also. In reality they made sure they did a drug test and background check on the dead Trayvon.
peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/03/22/sa ... eath-teen/
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Obama
http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/the-5-cr ... d-about-tr
1."I think the hoodie is as much responsible for Trayvon Martin's death as George Zimmerman was."
2."I'll bet you money, if he didn't have that hoodie on, that nutty neighborhood watchguy would have never responded in that violent and aggressive way."
3."I am urging the parents of black and Latino youngsters particularly to not let their children go out wearing hoodies."
4."He wore an outfit (Trayvon Martin) that allowed someone to respond in this irrational, overzealous way, and if he had been dressed more appropriately. I believe unless it's raining or at a track meet leave the hoodie at home."
5."You know the old Johnny Cash song 'don't take your gun to town son, leave your gun at home.' There are some things that are almost inevitable."
(the link as video)
My comment: Geraldo Rivera is a fucking putz...
Hahahahaha...this is great.
And those girls that get raped, they shouldn't have worn those high heels, mini skirts, and cleavage showing tops!!!!