it's like i said ... many people want to believe that racism isn't as prevalent as it is ... and their first reaction to accusations of racism is to get defensive about it ... which is partly why it still exists ...
no it's over thinking and people like you that help to keep racism alive, the only crimes you guys care to talk about are crimes and or selfdefense aginst blacks but we never discuss the possibality of racism when a black attacks a white because they're white or attacks on brown people by blacks, you are to eager to play into the hands of racism even in a "what if" situation, you are to quick to jump my friend and that makes me wonder what your real interest are every time you make a post about racism on this forum.
Godfather.
how can someone armed with a gun claim self defense when the person who is allegedly attacking him is armed with $22, a packet of ice tea, and a bag of skittles??
How far from Zimmerman's house did the shooting happen? I haven't read a distance, but just that the shooting happened "minutes" later after Zimmerman left his house.
That is where the self-defense argument for me goes out the window... If an unarmed person is on your property, there is an altercation and you are scared, I can buy the self defense argument. But if I follow someone down the street just to engage them, how can I say that I was scared for my life?
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
The recording of the 911 Call from the "witness" who did not want to go out side is enough to make me sick. And it DEFINITELY should be enough to put this loathable night watchman behind bars for murder.
Try and listen to that without getting queasy.
The entire time this woman is reporting this mess to the 911 Dispatcher, all you can hear in the background, over and over, for almost a minute, is this poor 17 year old, who was "armed" with an iced tea, a bag of skittles, and a cell phone, ***screaming for his life, at the top of his lungs*** ... then you hear one big bang, and then that eerie silence.
This shit REALLY gets to me. Like gets me teary, even, at the sheer massive stupidity\ignorance involved here on the Neighborhood Watchman's side of the equation. The fact that this kid was killed is bad enough. The fact that it sounds like he was dehumanized to the primal level of an animal in terror, is what makes me cringe, though.
Self defense, my fucking ass.
:( :( :(
i got emotional when i listened to it as well. it was like actually witnessing the murder. at first i got really sad because i just heard someone get killed, then i got really angry because it was so fucked up and so preventable had he not chased travon....i didn't want to get into how it affected me, but that call is something i will never ever forget.
it makes me wonder how dispatchers can do their job hearing stuff like that.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
they always get away who's they? males? or black males?
Black guys carrying skittles...
Marshawn Lynch?
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
The always peaceful Russell Simmons tweeted, "Trayvon Martin didn't die so we can create a race war he died so we can promote better understanding. We must start honest dialogue..."
from RW's link ... this is what needs to come about ... an honest dialogue ... one that isn't afraid to face truths ...
he will wade into the henry gates ordeal, where nobody died, yet he is staying out of this one. people are fucking pissed. he needs to step in and try to calm everyone down. that is his responsibility as president.
this is an election year though, so i guess saying nothing is better than saying something and giving santourm and romney ammo to use against him...
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
he will wade into the henry gates ordeal, where nobody died, yet he is staying out of this one. people are fucking pissed. he needs to step in and try to calm everyone down. that is his responsibility as president.
this is an election year though, so i guess saying nothing is better than saying something and giving santourm and romney ammo to use against him...
I think he has learned to stay out of issues like this, there is really nothing politically to be gained from getting involved... let the justice department handle it.
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
If no progress was made in gun control when a member of congress was shot in the face in public then I doubt this will have any impact either. Obama will stay away from it because the right will once again say he's trying to take away their guns and bullets.
This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
yeah this is true, and if automobiles didn't exist there wouldn't be tens of thousands of human and animal deaths every year, and if tobacco didn't exist we wouldn't have as many people dying from lung cancer and emphysema, and if alcohol didn't exist...and bacon double cheeseburgers...etc etc. to all of you anti gun peeps who think the answer is to just prohibit guns, take a look at mexico to see how they are doing with guns. not only that but who's to say if this zimmerman fellow didn't have a gun, that he wouldn't have been weilding a club or knife or machete? oh but then i guess we could just prohibit all those things too.
Dubbed "Shoot first (ask questions later)" by opponents, the Florida law allows a potential crime victim who is "in fear of great bodily injury" to use deadly force in public places.
The landmark law expanded on legislation, known as the Castle Doctrine, that allowed use of deadly force in defense of "hearth and home." Passed under former Florida Governor Jeb Bush in 2005, it overturned a centuries-old doctrine that required the potential victim to retreat and avoid confrontation if possible, according to Ladd Everitt, spokesman for the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence, a Washington-based advocacy group.
"No one could argue that Zimmerman could not have safely retreated and avoided this conflict, and I think that is the critical element here and why these laws are so dangerous," Everitt said. "He (Zimmerman) does not have a duty to retreat in Florida."
Five years after Florida's Stand Your Ground law was enacted, a 2010 review by the St. Petersburg Times found that reports of justifiable homicides had tripled, and a majority of cases were excused by prosecutors or the courts. Meanwhile, the petition drive, started by a friend of Trayvon's mother, has been signed by people across the globe from Canada to Thailand, Lubin said.
yeah this is true, and if automobiles didn't exist there wouldn't be tens of thousands of human and animal deaths every year, and if tobacco didn't exist we wouldn't have as many people dying from lung cancer and emphysema, and if alcohol didn't exist...and bacon double cheeseburgers...etc etc. to all of you anti gun peeps who think the answer is to just prohibit guns, take a look at mexico to see how they are doing with guns. not only that but who's to say if this zimmerman fellow didn't have a gun, that he wouldn't have been weilding a club or knife or machete? oh but then i guess we could just prohibit all those things too.
...this is just another senseless crime with a gun in America.
Peace
This is very true. If this guy didn't have a gun, would he have gone out looking for trouble?
Are automobiles designed to kill, that's there only purpose? How about Bacon double cheeseburgers? Cigarettes...I think you have a point there. But that is it. Otherwise your argument is really weak.
I have no idea if it had any bearing on this situation. But your comment is part of the problem. That is the bottom line anymore isn't it?
It's funny, people talk all day about innocent until proven guilty. Then if a black man/woman is the victim of a crime by a white man/woman, instantly it's racial. It may be, but it also may not have a thing to do with it at all.
i wonder why he said
"he has his hand in his waistband and he's a black male"
and he's a black male??
Where is that? That would certainly be some evidence towards some racial bias.
I guess if someone is going to claim racism they should provide some evidence, that's what I am saying.
it's on the 9/11 call zimmerman made to the police
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
yeah this is true, and if automobiles didn't exist there wouldn't be tens of thousands of human and animal deaths every year, and if tobacco didn't exist we wouldn't have as many people dying from lung cancer and emphysema, and if alcohol didn't exist...and bacon double cheeseburgers...etc etc. to all of you anti gun peeps who think the answer is to just prohibit guns, take a look at mexico to see how they are doing with guns. not only that but who's to say if this zimmerman fellow didn't have a gun, that he wouldn't have been weilding a club or knife or machete? oh but then i guess we could just prohibit all those things too.
This is very true. If this guy didn't have a gun, would he have gone out looking for trouble?
Are automobiles designed to kill, that's there only purpose? How about Bacon double cheeseburgers? Cigarettes...I think you have a point there. But that is it. Otherwise your argument is really weak.
Exactly what I was thinking...and also, to even suggest that any correlation can be leaned from Mexico is a major stretch.
What anightmare of a story...regardless, this Zimmerman is the kind of guy that should not have a gun. Sounds like an execution took place.
so basically human deaths are ok if it's by an instrument not designed to kill. very pro life of you. weak argument indeed. hey guys it's ok for people to die as long as it's by some arbitrary object not designed to kill. also, i think there are plenty of gun designers and makers and owners that would resent the accusation that guns are only made to kill, guns are made to fire bullets at a target accurately. they have marksmanship as an event in the olympics. i have had guns for years, never wanted to shoot a person and i don't hunt. i find it fun to shoot at targets, why should i not be allowed to have a gun.
if you think what I believe is stupid, bizarre, ridiculous or outrageous.....it's ok, I think I had a brain tumor when I wrote that.
and johnny, are you kidding about mexico? my point is that in mexico guns are prohibited...guess what, people still have guns and kill people. how would prohibiting guns here be any different? please explain how in the states it would be different.
if you think what I believe is stupid, bizarre, ridiculous or outrageous.....it's ok, I think I had a brain tumor when I wrote that.
What the hell is he muttering at 1:52 ... "fucking XXXXXX"?
the page says it "may" be either "fucking coons" or "fucking goons"
but to me it sounds like neither.
it sounds more like
"fucking toast" or
"fucking toads" (???) ...
"he's fuckin' toast" or
"he's fuckin' close"
or WHAT?
anyone can make anything coherent out of that right there?
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
and johnny, are you kidding about mexico? my point is that in mexico guns are prohibited...guess what, people still have guns and kill people. how would prohibiting guns here be any different? please explain how in the states it would be different.
I don't know, look at Canada, who is much more culturally similar to the USA. Gun homocide isn't NEARLY what it is in the United States.
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
so basically human deaths are ok if it's by an instrument not designed to kill. very pro life of you. weak argument indeed. hey guys it's ok for people to die as long as it's by some arbitrary object not designed to kill. also, i think there are plenty of gun designers and makers and owners that would resent the accusation that guns are only made to kill, guns are made to fire bullets at a target accurately. they have marksmanship as an event in the olympics. i have had guns for years, never wanted to shoot a person and i don't hunt. i find it fun to shoot at targets, why should i not be allowed to have a gun.
You can't shoot targets with a BB gun? You need an automatic hand gun? I grew up in a house with guns. My dad is actually a collector and owns Indian rifles, civil war muskets, original Winchester and colt 45's, etc. I'm not anti gun. I am anti automatic weapon. There's no need for them in our society.
This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
so basically human deaths are ok if it's by an instrument not designed to kill. very pro life of you. weak argument indeed. hey guys it's ok for people to die as long as it's by some arbitrary object not designed to kill. also, i think there are plenty of gun designers and makers and owners that would resent the accusation that guns are only made to kill, guns are made to fire bullets at a target accurately. they have marksmanship as an event in the olympics. i have had guns for years, never wanted to shoot a person and i don't hunt. i find it fun to shoot at targets, why should i not be allowed to have a gun.
Yeah, cause that is clearly what I said. Jeez, and we wonder why we get politicans that only care about sound bites. Enjoy shooting at targets.
so basically human deaths are ok if it's by an instrument not designed to kill. very pro life of you. weak argument indeed. hey guys it's ok for people to die as long as it's by some arbitrary object not designed to kill. also, i think there are plenty of gun designers and makers and owners that would resent the accusation that guns are only made to kill, guns are made to fire bullets at a target accurately. they have marksmanship as an event in the olympics. i have had guns for years, never wanted to shoot a person and i don't hunt. i find it fun to shoot at targets, why should i not be allowed to have a gun.
nobody said you can't have a gun...calm down before you blow out your o-ring...
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
You know it'd very creepy listening to those tapes knowing that this kid is going to be shot and killed over nothing. I just don't see where the self defense cry is warranted to use deadly force. just watch and see how this case will turn upside down.
May that teen rest in Peace
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
i have had guns for years, never wanted to shoot a person and i don't hunt. i find it fun to shoot at targets, why should i not be allowed to have a gun.
I knew some gun advocates would come out of the woodwork and feel threatened...nobody ever said anything about YOU, or about banning guns!
and johnny, are you kidding about mexico? my point is that in mexico guns are prohibited...guess what, people still have guns and kill people. how would prohibiting guns here be any different? please explain how in the states it would be different.
No i'm certainly not kidding you, or else I would have used a smiley face of some sort...I thought you were kidding implying that what happens in Mexico could happen in the US...Why not pick a society that mirrors the US a bit more realistically than one that is run by drug cartels and where police are murdered by the dozens?
Sorry, your arguments are just silly to me and I find it funny that this became about you, when clearly a teenager was murdered by a man that shouldnt have had a firearm in the first place. And I hate guns but would never advocate taking them away from law abiding citizens. How I feel about current laws and regulations, background checks, waiting periods, penalties and punishments...now that's another story and completely different thread.
and johnny, are you kidding about mexico? my point is that in mexico guns are prohibited...guess what, people still have guns and kill people. how would prohibiting guns here be any different? please explain how in the states it would be different.
I don't know, look at Canada, who is much more culturally similar to the USA. Gun homocide isn't NEARLY what it is in the United States.
exactly my point about the Mexico association being a bit off.
and johnny, are you kidding about mexico? my point is that in mexico guns are prohibited...guess what, people still have guns and kill people. how would prohibiting guns here be any different? please explain how in the states it would be different.
I don't know, look at Canada, who is much more culturally similar to the USA. Gun homocide isn't NEARLY what it is in the United States.
exactly my point about the Mexico association being a bit off.
We could also look at Europe, Australia, etc..
Most guns in Canada are hunting rifles. Handguns are designed to do nothing other than kill another human.
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
cometotx, a similar argument could be made for cars, no one needs a car that can go over 70 mph, no need for them in our society,and people can just grab their food with their hands and eat it, we don't need steak knives in our society either. we don't need tobacco in our society either, all these things we don't need, but they exist. you can put your head in the sand and pretend they don't and hope they go away but they won't. and for what it's worth, to get a fully auto weapon you need a class 3 license which involves getting a signature from your local judge or sheriff. oh and no i can't shoot targets with a bb gun, unless they are 20 feet away or less. or do you know of a bb gun that shoots accurately at 300 yards?
keeponrockin, i don't think you guys have the gangs and drug networks like we do in the states, if that were to change, imo so would gun violence.
and to cincy and gimme, thanks
if you think what I believe is stupid, bizarre, ridiculous or outrageous.....it's ok, I think I had a brain tumor when I wrote that.
cometotx, a similar argument could be made for cars, no one needs a car that can go over 70 mph, no need for them in our society,and people can just grab their food with their hands and eat it, we don't need steak knives in our society either. we don't need tobacco in our society either, all these things we don't need, but they exist. you can put your head in the sand and pretend they don't and hope they go away but they won't. and for what it's worth, to get a fully auto weapon you need a class 3 license which involves getting a signature from your local judge or sheriff. oh and no i can't shoot targets with a bb gun, unless they are 20 feet away or less. or do you know of a bb gun that shoots accurately at 300 yards?
keeponrockin, i don't think you guys have the gangs and drug networks like we do in the states, if that were to change, imo so would gun violence.
and to cincy and gimme, thanks
We have gangs (mostly biker) and drug networks (I can walk downtown Ottawa, Toronto, Montreal and find whatever I'm looking for) yet we still don't have the violence. This has to be partially due to the lack of available hand guns.
Yes or no question:
Is the world a better place with guns in it?
I could definitely make the argument that transportation and steak makes the world better. Can you say the same for guns?
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
oh i don't know, if your conservative government starts racheting up the war on drugs like the states is, then dealers will start to get busted, drug prices will go up, more people will want to sell drugs because of those prices, more people will fight for ther territory to sell those drugs, enter the demand for guns. but only time will tell on that. and yes i feel like the world is a safer place with guns. i would feel unsafe without them.
if you think what I believe is stupid, bizarre, ridiculous or outrageous.....it's ok, I think I had a brain tumor when I wrote that.
Comments
This is very true. If this guy didn't have a gun, would he have gone out looking for trouble?
How far from Zimmerman's house did the shooting happen? I haven't read a distance, but just that the shooting happened "minutes" later after Zimmerman left his house.
That is where the self-defense argument for me goes out the window... If an unarmed person is on your property, there is an altercation and you are scared, I can buy the self defense argument. But if I follow someone down the street just to engage them, how can I say that I was scared for my life?
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
it makes me wonder how dispatchers can do their job hearing stuff like that.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
this might help clear some things up
Marshawn Lynch?
from RW's link ... this is what needs to come about ... an honest dialogue ... one that isn't afraid to face truths ...
he will wade into the henry gates ordeal, where nobody died, yet he is staying out of this one. people are fucking pissed. he needs to step in and try to calm everyone down. that is his responsibility as president.
this is an election year though, so i guess saying nothing is better than saying something and giving santourm and romney ammo to use against him...
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I think he has learned to stay out of issues like this, there is really nothing politically to be gained from getting involved... let the justice department handle it.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
The landmark law expanded on legislation, known as the Castle Doctrine, that allowed use of deadly force in defense of "hearth and home." Passed under former Florida Governor Jeb Bush in 2005, it overturned a centuries-old doctrine that required the potential victim to retreat and avoid confrontation if possible, according to Ladd Everitt, spokesman for the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence, a Washington-based advocacy group.
"No one could argue that Zimmerman could not have safely retreated and avoided this conflict, and I think that is the critical element here and why these laws are so dangerous," Everitt said. "He (Zimmerman) does not have a duty to retreat in Florida."
Five years after Florida's Stand Your Ground law was enacted, a 2010 review by the St. Petersburg Times found that reports of justifiable homicides had tripled, and a majority of cases were excused by prosecutors or the courts. Meanwhile, the petition drive, started by a friend of Trayvon's mother, has been signed by people across the globe from Canada to Thailand, Lubin said.
"what a long, strange trip it's been"
Are automobiles designed to kill, that's there only purpose? How about Bacon double cheeseburgers? Cigarettes...I think you have a point there. But that is it. Otherwise your argument is really weak.
it's on the 9/11 call zimmerman made to the police
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Exactly what I was thinking...and also, to even suggest that any correlation can be leaned from Mexico is a major stretch.
What anightmare of a story...regardless, this Zimmerman is the kind of guy that should not have a gun. Sounds like an execution took place.
it's at 1:06 on the tape on the above linked page
What the hell is he muttering at 1:52 ... "fucking XXXXXX"?
the page says it "may" be either "fucking coons" or "fucking goons"
but to me it sounds like neither.
it sounds more like
"fucking toast" or
"fucking toads" (???) ...
"he's fuckin' toast" or
"he's fuckin' close"
or WHAT?
anyone can make anything coherent out of that right there?
If I opened it now would you not understand?
You can't shoot targets with a BB gun? You need an automatic hand gun? I grew up in a house with guns. My dad is actually a collector and owns Indian rifles, civil war muskets, original Winchester and colt 45's, etc. I'm not anti gun. I am anti automatic weapon. There's no need for them in our society.
Yeah, cause that is clearly what I said. Jeez, and we wonder why we get politicans that only care about sound bites. Enjoy shooting at targets.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
May that teen rest in Peace
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Who the heck ever said that? This is why its pointless to discuss it with people with that attitude.
I knew some gun advocates would come out of the woodwork and feel threatened...nobody ever said anything about YOU, or about banning guns!
No i'm certainly not kidding you, or else I would have used a smiley face of some sort...I thought you were kidding implying that what happens in Mexico could happen in the US...Why not pick a society that mirrors the US a bit more realistically than one that is run by drug cartels and where police are murdered by the dozens?
Sorry, your arguments are just silly to me and I find it funny that this became about you, when clearly a teenager was murdered by a man that shouldnt have had a firearm in the first place. And I hate guns but would never advocate taking them away from law abiding citizens. How I feel about current laws and regulations, background checks, waiting periods, penalties and punishments...now that's another story and completely different thread.
exactly my point about the Mexico association being a bit off.
Most guns in Canada are hunting rifles. Handguns are designed to do nothing other than kill another human.
keeponrockin, i don't think you guys have the gangs and drug networks like we do in the states, if that were to change, imo so would gun violence.
and to cincy and gimme, thanks
[/u] Handguns are designed to do nothing other than kill another human.[/quote]
Yes or no question:
Is the world a better place with guns in it?
I could definitely make the argument that transportation and steak makes the world better. Can you say the same for guns?