well i don't think you or i or anyone here knows what the ncaa's exact parameters are for reporting such things. i'd think a former coach who still has access to their facilities, still attends practices, still attends games, travels with the team to bowl games, goes to team functions etc etc etc that's being investigated for such heinus crimes is something you'd want to inform them of just to be safe.
I get what you are saying, but it's not like you have to report anyone with a criminal record or investigation being around a college team. Granted, his crimes are sickening, but I can't see how the NCAA is involved.
I can't see NCAA sanctions coming down at all. From a legal perspective, this is all outside the football program. The athletic department who was involved and the school in general are in some trouble, obviously, but I can't see it getting the football program anymore than it has.
i can. they're already looking into issues related to institutional control and ethical conduct stemming from this. you can bet that the most minor violation they find will come with some hefty ramifications. i kind of agreed with you, to an extent, until this part of the story came to light.
I am pretty certain raping a kid in the showers and having an office is a bigger deal to the NCAA than him than being at a game. The NCAA is going to have to punish the entire athletic department, not just the football team and I can't see that happening. What you are talking about is not a Joe Paterno issue, it's a Tim Curley/Spanier issue.
[A running joke in the thread, there were others that though the school should be closed and no one should hire a penn state grad again. True story. It was amusing.
THON is obviously a great event that has raised millions.
You and I will never see eye to eye on the football program. We haven't since it started. I don't think punishing the current kids and every other student athlete for that matter is the way to go. I don't agree with how the Paterno situation was handled but I think the people responsible for covering it up need to be punished and held accountable and I would also like to see the current board gone, they have done nothing but make horrible decision after horrible decision. I don't think punishing people that are not involved is the right thing to do. I get that the Penn State football image is what they were trying to protect, but that has obviously been shattered and lessons have obviously been learned. Hurting other student athletes by suspending the program will make no more of an impact on a adminstrators decision making process moving forward than what has already happened.
I got it. It's old. Just like the comparison to the church.
I don't see how it's punishing the athletes any more than the Ohio State players who are stuck without a postseason this year. They couldn't transfer without a year delay. What about the kids that were going to SMU when it got the death penalty? I do agree that it should be just football.
So, yes, there is collateral damage to those that unknowingly selected to play for an uncaring person. That's life. We all misjudge people. Good lesson for the kids. But, it's not like they couldn't still play college football next year on this idea. And, its no different than what goes on at numerous schools every year in a variety of severity. So, your argument is a specious one.
This isn't a punishment to learn a lesson for those involved in this incident (though hopefully, it is to future incidents which seems almost silly since who needs that lesson in morality? Only people like Joe Paterno). It's a punishment to be punitive to the institution that so clearly had no control.
Monster Rain hit the nail on the head and it's not going to happen so whatever. I just don't get how you are going to punish the football team for largely the acts of Spanier, Schultz and Curley. And the lack of a football season would have an impact on every other student-athlete at the school.
Monster Rain hit the nail on the head and it's not going to happen so whatever. I just don't get how you are going to punish the football team for largely the acts of Spanier, Schultz and Curley. And the lack of a football season would have an impact on every other student-athlete at the school.
I think you forgot the most important, powerful person involved - Joe Paterno. He is a scoundrel and the worst of humankind. It is one thing to do the crimes, it's quite another to knowingly allow it to continue. He could have stopped it and now a larger web of destruction has been created, and he's as culpable as Sandusky after the first report.
Yes, Spanier, et. al. knew about the investigation sooner than they let on. But, that's all irrelevant if the moment the most powerful man in Pennsylvania says - my football legacy and program be damned!! I am putting a stop to this!
So, that's how I see the football program being sanctioned. The coverup happened for the very reason of protecting the program, and it is clear Joe Paterno held the power and the knowledge and could have stopped it on numerous occassions. His power is borne out of the football program. That's where the punishment should lie.. Everything else is just window dressing.
Quite frankly, I'm a UCONN alum, and I'd be embarassed if something similar came out about Calhoun who built that school, and is equally powerful. And, I would dump all my Basketball stuff and be the first in line to kill the program (men's basketball) that built the school. It would not be more important than the integrity of the institution.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
Monster Rain hit the nail on the head and it's not going to happen so whatever. I just don't get how you are going to punish the football team for largely the acts of Spanier, Schultz and Curley. And the lack of a football season would have an impact on every other student-athlete at the school.
I think you forgot the most important, powerful person involved - Joe Paterno. He is a scoundrel and the worst of humankind. It is one thing to do the crimes, it's quite another to knowingly allow it to continue. He could have stopped it and now a larger web of destruction has been created, and he's as culpable as Sandusky after the first report.
Yes, Spanier, et. al. knew about the investigation sooner than they let on. But, that's all irrelevant if the moment the most powerful man in Pennsylvania says - my football legacy and program be damned!! I am putting a stop to this!
So, that's how I see the football program being sanctioned. The coverup happened for the very reason of protecting the program, and it is clear Joe Paterno held the power and the knowledge and could have stopped it on numerous occassions. His power is borne out of the football program. That's where the punishment should lie.. Everything else is just window dressing.
Quite frankly, I'm a UCONN alum, and I'd be embarassed if something similar came out about Calhoun who built that school, and is equally powerful. And, I would dump all my Basketball stuff and be the first in line to kill the program (men's basketball) that built the school. It would not be more important than the integrity of the institution.
There are probably 10 people that could have stopped it at any time. Spanier knew about the incident 2 fucking days after Paterno knew about it, he didn't learn about the investigation later on. You know nothing about what happened besides the grand jury report. And as Paternos testimony said, he took it to his boss, who was responsible for Sandusky and expected him to do his job. He absolutely should have called the cops but there were people who are responsible for, you know, managing the athletic department and who is part of it that covered it up and did less. I'm done arguing this same point 2 months later.
How come I don't hear the same outrage coming from you about ESPN and the Syracuse Post Standard? They knew about the Bernie Fine allegations for 7 years and told no one, not a soul. Being a UConn guy, you should be all over that one.
There are probably 10 people that could have stopped it at any time. Spanier knew about the incident 2 fucking days after Paterno knew about it, he didn't learn about the investigation later on. You know nothing about what happened besides the grand jury report. And as Paternos testimony said, he took it to his boss, who was responsible for Sandusky and expected him to do his job. He absolutely should have called the cops but there were people who are responsible for, you know, managing the athletic department and who is part of it that covered it up and did less. I'm done arguing this same point 2 months later.
How come I don't hear the same outrage coming from you about ESPN and the Syracuse Post Standard? They knew about the Bernie Fine allegations for 7 years and told no one, not a soul. Being a UConn guy, you should be all over that one.
Ha, ha. That is funny. Paterno apologist. He had no boss (in the truest sense of the word). They couldn't even get him to retire when he needed to go 10 years ago. And, now you're expecting his subordinates (Spanier, et. al) to go against his wishes?
A little different situation. It appears that Boeheim did not have the information that Paterno had. Plus, there's still something fishy about that one. He was molested until he was 25? And the wife had an affair with him? Whatever. Maybe, he's telling the truth, but it's a lot less clear than what Paterno continued.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
There are probably 10 people that could have stopped it at any time. Spanier knew about the incident 2 fucking days after Paterno knew about it, he didn't learn about the investigation later on. You know nothing about what happened besides the grand jury report. And as Paternos testimony said, he took it to his boss, who was responsible for Sandusky and expected him to do his job. He absolutely should have called the cops but there were people who are responsible for, you know, managing the athletic department and who is part of it that covered it up and did less. I'm done arguing this same point 2 months later.
How come I don't hear the same outrage coming from you about ESPN and the Syracuse Post Standard? They knew about the Bernie Fine allegations for 7 years and told no one, not a soul. Being a UConn guy, you should be all over that one.
Ha, ha. That is funny. Paterno apologist. He had no boss (in the truest sense of the word). They couldn't even get him to retire when he needed to go 10 years ago. And, now you're expecting his subordinates (Spanier, et. al) to go against his wishes?
A little different situation. It appears that Boeheim did not have the information that Paterno had. Plus, there's still something fishy about that one. He was molested until he was 25? And the wife had an affair with him? Whatever. Maybe, he's telling the truth, but it's a lot less clear than what Paterno continued.
Alright dude, I'm done with you. I am interested to know what other of Paternos wishes you know about though. How about what he wanted for Christmas?
I asked about ESPN and the Post Standard, I didn't say anything about Boeheim. Nice try again. And him beign molested until he was 25 is a little less fishy with the last round of allegations.
I get what you are saying, but it's not like you have to report anyone with a criminal record or investigation being around a college team. Granted, his crimes are sickening, but I can't see how the NCAA is involved.
I can't see NCAA sanctions coming down at all. From a legal perspective, this is all outside the football program. The athletic department who was involved and the school in general are in some trouble, obviously, but I can't see it getting the football program anymore than it has.
i can. they're already looking into issues related to institutional control and ethical conduct stemming from this. you can bet that the most minor violation they find will come with some hefty ramifications. i kind of agreed with you, to an extent, until this part of the story came to light.
I am pretty certain raping a kid in the showers and having an office is a bigger deal to the NCAA than him than being at a game. The NCAA is going to have to punish the entire athletic department, not just the football team and I can't see that happening. What you are talking about is not a Joe Paterno issue, it's a Tim Curley/Spanier issue.
what? i never mentioned joe paterno.
kinda confused by your response but you essentially proved my point which is the ncaa is looking for any possible violations they can find. whether it being him allowed to maintain an office, like you said, or them allowing him on campus to see a game after knowing about the investigation; i don't see how the football program gets out of this unscathed.
kinda confused by your response but you essentially proved my point which is the ncaa is looking for any possible violations they can find. whether it being him allowed to maintain an office, like you said, or them allowing him on campus to see a game after knowing about the investigation; i don't see how the football program gets out of this unscathed.
But the point is, it's the adminstration that is largely at fault with allowing him to stick around campus. Agree with it or not, Paterno did what he was obligated to do. It's the people above him that didn't and they are associated with a lot more than the football program. So how do you punish the football program and not other the entire athletic department? I just can't see them bringing sanctions against all the other sports for this issue.
And everyone associated with the school says Sandusky being in the box at that game is complete bullshit, including Erickson.
kinda confused by your response but you essentially proved my point which is the ncaa is looking for any possible violations they can find. whether it being him allowed to maintain an office, like you said, or them allowing him on campus to see a game after knowing about the investigation; i don't see how the football program gets out of this unscathed.
But the point is, it's the adminstration that is largely at fault with allowing him to stick around campus. Agree with it or not, Paterno did what he was obligated to do. It's the people above him that didn't and they are associated with a lot more than the football program. So how do you punish the football program and not other the entire athletic department? I just can't see them bringing sanctions against all the other sports for this issue.
And everyone associated with the school says Sandusky being in the box at that game is complete bullshit, including Erickson.
kinda see your point but he's the former football coach who was allowed an incredible amount of access to the football team and the football team's facilities for years. not some other athletic team. the football team.
i don't see them bringing sanctions against all the other sports programs either. i do see them trying to find a way to punish the football program, and only the football program...for reasons i assumed were obvious.
I used to think Eagles fans were the dumbest fans in sports, Penn State fans and their response to Paterno being fired and Bradley not being hired have taken stupidity to a new level. i can't fathom how anyone can say that paterno shouldn't have been fired for overseeing this debacle. it's like they're brainwashed by the cult.
I used to think Eagles fans were the dumbest fans in sports, Penn State fans and their response to Paterno being fired and Bradley not being hired have taken stupidity to a new level. i can't fathom how anyone can say that paterno shouldn't have been fired for overseeing this debacle. it's like they're brainwashed by the cult.
the only dumb eagles fans are the ones that think throwing the ball 80% of the time is being conservative.
i agree about psu fans not understandig the paterno/bradley thing though.
To OS followers: Our 8:45 pm tweet about Joe Paterno's death appears to be inaccurate, according to @JayPaterno, who says he's alive. We were confident when we ran with it, and are still trying to figure out where our process failed. We apologize sincerely for error.
A letter from the Managing Editor of Onward State:
Earlier this evening, Onward State reported that Joe Paterno had passed away. However, the mountain of evidence stacked opposite that report is too much to ignore. At this time, I would like to issue a retraction of our earlier tweets.
I never, in a million years, would have thought that Onward State would be cited by the national media, and today, I sincerely wish it never had been. To all those who read and passed along our reports, I sincerely apologize for misleading you. To the Penn State community and to the Paterno family most of all, I could not be more sorry for the emotional anguish I am sure we caused. There are no excuses for what we did. We all make mistakes, but it’s impossible to brush off one of this magnitude. Right now, we deserve all of the criticism headed our way.
In this day and age, getting it first often conflicts with getting it right, but our intention was never to fall into that chasm. All I can do now is promise that in the future, we will exercise caution, restraint, and humility.
I can only hope and pray that the outstanding work our writers and photographers do on a day-to-day basis is not overshadowed by the events of tonight. I understand that our reputation is in serious question, but I hope you will continue to stand by us as we do everything in our power to make amends.
To begin that process, I will be stepping down from my post as Managing Editor, effective immediately. I take full responsibility for the events that transpired tonight, and for the black mark upon the organization that I have caused.
I ask not for your forgiveness, but for your understanding. I am so very, very, sorry, and we at Onward State continue to pray for Coach Paterno.
It is with great sadness that we announce that Joe Paterno passed away earlier today. His loss leaves a void in our lives that will never be filled.
He died as he lived. He fought hard until the end, stayed positive, thought only of others and constantly reminded everyone of how blessed his life had been. His ambitions were far reaching, but he never believed he had to leave this Happy Valley to achieve them. He was a man devoted to his family, his university, his players and his community.
He has been many things in his life – a soldier, scholar, mentor, coach, friend and father. To my mother he was and is her soul mate, and the last several weeks have shown the strength of their love. To his children and grandchildren he is a shining example of how to live a good, decent and honest life, a standard to which we aspire.
When he decided to forego a career in law and make coaching his vocation, his father Angelo had but one command: Make an impact.
As the last 61 years have shown, Joe made an incredible impact. That impact has been felt and appreciated by our family in the form of thousands of letters and well wishes along with countless acts of kindness from people whose lives he touched. It is evident also in the thousands of successful student athletes who have gone on to multiply that impact as they spread out across the country.
And so he leaves us with a peaceful mind, comforted by his “living legacy” of five kids, 17 grandchildren, and hundreds of young men whose lives he changed in more ways than can begin to be counted.
In lieu of flowers or gifts, the family requests that donations be made to the Special Olympics of Pennsylvania or the Penn State-THON, The Penn State IFC/Panhellenic Dance Marathon.
this guy is going to have a very conflicted legacy. and while i think its sad when anyone dies, i think its wise to understand this guy is as complex, and has right now as diverse and varied opinions of him and about him as anyone probably ever has had about anyone, ever. Some view him as some sort of saint and others view him as culpable in one of the worst scandals in collegiate history, a scandal that took out a head coach, a university president, an assistant coach, and an athletic director among others. Ultimately i think its wise to understand winning football games really in the grand scheme of things, does it really matter? does it make someone a good person if you are a talented althlete or coach? can someone be good and bad? just because someone wins football games can they also be considered bad? lots of questions.
this guy is going to have a very conflicted legacy. and while i think its sad when anyone dies, i think its wise to understand this guy is as complex, and has right now as diverse and varied opinions of him and about him as anyone probably ever has had about anyone, ever. Some view him as some sort of saint and others view him as culpable in one of the worst scandals in collegiate history, a scandal that took out a head coach, a university president, an assistant coach, and an athletic director among others. Ultimately i think its wise to understand winning football games really in the grand scheme of things, does it really matter? does it make someone a good person if you are a talented althlete or coach? can someone be good and bad? just because someone wins football games can they also be considered bad? lots of questions.
he did a lot more than win football games for that university. he was far more than just a coach. he enriched hundreds/thousands of lives, in a way. he donated millions to penn state university. he essentially made the school what it is today.
i think he should have done more regarding the sandusky situation-no doubt. but you cannot just refer to joe paterno as just another football coach who is only good for winning football games. his life and his meaning to penn state and collegiate sports in general goes well beyond that. maybe you should google him.
he did a lot more than win football games for that university. he was far more than just a coach. he enriched hundreds/thousands of lives, in a way. he donated millions to penn state university. he essentially made the school what it is today.
i think he should have done more regarding the sandusky situation-no doubt. but you cannot just refer to joe paterno as just another football coach who is only good for winning football games. his life and his meaning to penn state and collegiate sports in general goes well beyond that. maybe you should google him.[/quote]
i think that depends on where your view point is. i'd argue right now, there are as many and as passionate paterno lovers as there are haters. as i said, its sad he died. thats paramount. but the idea that he is either a football god and saint, or a person who at best ignored abuse so his legacy and his universities legacy would be protected. that all is dependent on where you stand and view. Just as some are vehemently sticking to the paterno is a legend idea (the riots after he was fired for example), youve got many people who disagree.
and i think ultimately thats what will eb debated for years and decades to come. Did he do enough? Was he unfairly targeted?
ultimately, the thing that always troubled me about paterno, at least these past few months, was how he reacted to what sandusky did. Your assistant coach comes to you, and plainly says, "sandusky is abusing kids, i saw him do it". When someone says something like that, I assume Mcqueary was stone faced, serious, and matter of fact. What i dont get is, sure he worked with Sandusky for years, so maybe his first reaction was disbelief, or shock, or wondering whether this was some sick joke mcqueary was playing on him. But, then you wonder, how could anyone look at sandusky the same way again. How could paterno go about his life and work, and run into sandusky, see him, know his involvement with kids at a charity level, and his abuse, and smile cordially as they passed in the hall? I'd never be able to look at someone the same way again if they were acused of such an act, and with this case its not just whispers of abuse, its people saying they actually saw it occur.
I would assume the varying opinions of paterno can be felt if you talked to victims of abuse and talked to the kids who rioted when he was fired. Thats a polar opposite opinion of the guy.
Im not a sports guy. I admit my bias. If a football team wins or loses doesnt effect me at all. But i'd argue providing a safe, honest, program with integrity, one that protects and serves the community, students and everyone else, would be the ultimate goal, or should be the ultimate goal of every sports program in the world. I think there are serious questions as to if that was met even at a basic level. I dont think the behavior of paterno, or of ANYONE in the football program at penn state, even extending it to the college president, acted in the interest of the community.
I think thats where awards and prestige can harm you, or harm us. The idea of protecting this image of paterno's win legacy, and of penn states legacy as a legendary university and sports program, was behind the reason for alot of the secrecy, lies, omissions, falsities and nefarious behavior. and thats sad.
i;ll never win a single football game, let alone as many as paterno. Im a small italian kid. i'd get murdered on a football field. but i think when one meets the creator, god, what will be important will be how we conducted our lives, how we acted, how we hehaved, how we tried to make the world a better place.
and staying silent because you didnt want to tarnish your university, or bring shame and scrutiny and press coverage to a hallowed university, all the while kids are being abused, to me is pretty indefensible and egregious behavior. This goes for everyone involved. Really you did nothing to prevent abuse of kids, because you didnt want Penn State to be tarnished? really?
i dont know specfically why few if any people did or said anything when they knew abuse was going on. but i do think its clear part of it, was because of paterno's legendary legacy and the universities status as a school and the football programs legacy as well.
I think groups and interests protect their own. Police do this all the time. the thin blue line. they keep scandals in the house, because they know if it gets out, they will have serious problems. And i think universities, and penn state are no different.
They knew if it was known that penn state hired and worked with a molestor of children, the media and press would be ALL OVER campus nonstop. The legacy of the program and of paterno would be tarnished, and it would interfere with the stated goal of any sports program, but especially one like Penn State, which is to WIN MORE GAMES and WIN MORE CHAMPIONSHIPS.
and because people stayed silent and covered it up, it went from abuse of children which is outrageous and indefensible in any manner, but then it became a conspiracy, involving nearly every high official in the university. So paterno knew about sandusky, but so did Mcqueary, and the AD, and the university president. Again, how exactly did they interact with one another as they passed in the hallways? How could anyone go about their day knowing an abuser was on campus, AND WORKING AND INTERACTING WITH CHILDREN!
Comments
I am pretty certain raping a kid in the showers and having an office is a bigger deal to the NCAA than him than being at a game. The NCAA is going to have to punish the entire athletic department, not just the football team and I can't see that happening. What you are talking about is not a Joe Paterno issue, it's a Tim Curley/Spanier issue.
Monster Rain hit the nail on the head and it's not going to happen so whatever. I just don't get how you are going to punish the football team for largely the acts of Spanier, Schultz and Curley. And the lack of a football season would have an impact on every other student-athlete at the school.
I think you forgot the most important, powerful person involved - Joe Paterno. He is a scoundrel and the worst of humankind. It is one thing to do the crimes, it's quite another to knowingly allow it to continue. He could have stopped it and now a larger web of destruction has been created, and he's as culpable as Sandusky after the first report.
Yes, Spanier, et. al. knew about the investigation sooner than they let on. But, that's all irrelevant if the moment the most powerful man in Pennsylvania says - my football legacy and program be damned!! I am putting a stop to this!
So, that's how I see the football program being sanctioned. The coverup happened for the very reason of protecting the program, and it is clear Joe Paterno held the power and the knowledge and could have stopped it on numerous occassions. His power is borne out of the football program. That's where the punishment should lie.. Everything else is just window dressing.
Quite frankly, I'm a UCONN alum, and I'd be embarassed if something similar came out about Calhoun who built that school, and is equally powerful. And, I would dump all my Basketball stuff and be the first in line to kill the program (men's basketball) that built the school. It would not be more important than the integrity of the institution.
There are probably 10 people that could have stopped it at any time. Spanier knew about the incident 2 fucking days after Paterno knew about it, he didn't learn about the investigation later on. You know nothing about what happened besides the grand jury report. And as Paternos testimony said, he took it to his boss, who was responsible for Sandusky and expected him to do his job. He absolutely should have called the cops but there were people who are responsible for, you know, managing the athletic department and who is part of it that covered it up and did less. I'm done arguing this same point 2 months later.
How come I don't hear the same outrage coming from you about ESPN and the Syracuse Post Standard? They knew about the Bernie Fine allegations for 7 years and told no one, not a soul. Being a UConn guy, you should be all over that one.
Ha, ha. That is funny. Paterno apologist. He had no boss (in the truest sense of the word). They couldn't even get him to retire when he needed to go 10 years ago. And, now you're expecting his subordinates (Spanier, et. al) to go against his wishes?
A little different situation. It appears that Boeheim did not have the information that Paterno had. Plus, there's still something fishy about that one. He was molested until he was 25? And the wife had an affair with him? Whatever. Maybe, he's telling the truth, but it's a lot less clear than what Paterno continued.
Alright dude, I'm done with you. I am interested to know what other of Paternos wishes you know about though. How about what he wanted for Christmas?
I asked about ESPN and the Post Standard, I didn't say anything about Boeheim. Nice try again. And him beign molested until he was 25 is a little less fishy with the last round of allegations.
what? i never mentioned joe paterno.
kinda confused by your response but you essentially proved my point which is the ncaa is looking for any possible violations they can find. whether it being him allowed to maintain an office, like you said, or them allowing him on campus to see a game after knowing about the investigation; i don't see how the football program gets out of this unscathed.
But the point is, it's the adminstration that is largely at fault with allowing him to stick around campus. Agree with it or not, Paterno did what he was obligated to do. It's the people above him that didn't and they are associated with a lot more than the football program. So how do you punish the football program and not other the entire athletic department? I just can't see them bringing sanctions against all the other sports for this issue.
And everyone associated with the school says Sandusky being in the box at that game is complete bullshit, including Erickson.
We'll just have to get the airmen to attest to their knowledge of the log books.... It'll be really strong testimony.
kinda see your point but he's the former football coach who was allowed an incredible amount of access to the football team and the football team's facilities for years. not some other athletic team. the football team.
i don't see them bringing sanctions against all the other sports programs either. i do see them trying to find a way to punish the football program, and only the football program...for reasons i assumed were obvious.
and this is coming from a psu fan.
the only dumb eagles fans are the ones that think throwing the ball 80% of the time is being conservative.
i agree about psu fans not understandig the paterno/bradley thing though.
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20120 ... =124488429
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/co ... story.html
http://eye-on-collegefootball.blogs.cbs ... a_txt_0001
https://twitter.com/#!/ScottPaterno/sta ... 1814824960
https://twitter.com/#!/OnwardState/stat ... 5915876352
https://twitter.com/#!/OnwardState/stat ... 0139552769
http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.co ... ife-death/
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
real nice
he did a lot more than win football games for that university. he was far more than just a coach. he enriched hundreds/thousands of lives, in a way. he donated millions to penn state university. he essentially made the school what it is today.
i think he should have done more regarding the sandusky situation-no doubt. but you cannot just refer to joe paterno as just another football coach who is only good for winning football games. his life and his meaning to penn state and collegiate sports in general goes well beyond that. maybe you should google him.
no he reported it and followed university procedure....should have done way more in my opinion though, agreed.
but that doesn't take away from all the other stuff i mentioned.
i think he should have done more regarding the sandusky situation-no doubt. but you cannot just refer to joe paterno as just another football coach who is only good for winning football games. his life and his meaning to penn state and collegiate sports in general goes well beyond that. maybe you should google him.[/quote]
i think that depends on where your view point is. i'd argue right now, there are as many and as passionate paterno lovers as there are haters. as i said, its sad he died. thats paramount. but the idea that he is either a football god and saint, or a person who at best ignored abuse so his legacy and his universities legacy would be protected. that all is dependent on where you stand and view. Just as some are vehemently sticking to the paterno is a legend idea (the riots after he was fired for example), youve got many people who disagree.
and i think ultimately thats what will eb debated for years and decades to come. Did he do enough? Was he unfairly targeted?
ultimately, the thing that always troubled me about paterno, at least these past few months, was how he reacted to what sandusky did. Your assistant coach comes to you, and plainly says, "sandusky is abusing kids, i saw him do it". When someone says something like that, I assume Mcqueary was stone faced, serious, and matter of fact. What i dont get is, sure he worked with Sandusky for years, so maybe his first reaction was disbelief, or shock, or wondering whether this was some sick joke mcqueary was playing on him. But, then you wonder, how could anyone look at sandusky the same way again. How could paterno go about his life and work, and run into sandusky, see him, know his involvement with kids at a charity level, and his abuse, and smile cordially as they passed in the hall? I'd never be able to look at someone the same way again if they were acused of such an act, and with this case its not just whispers of abuse, its people saying they actually saw it occur.
I would assume the varying opinions of paterno can be felt if you talked to victims of abuse and talked to the kids who rioted when he was fired. Thats a polar opposite opinion of the guy.
Im not a sports guy. I admit my bias. If a football team wins or loses doesnt effect me at all. But i'd argue providing a safe, honest, program with integrity, one that protects and serves the community, students and everyone else, would be the ultimate goal, or should be the ultimate goal of every sports program in the world. I think there are serious questions as to if that was met even at a basic level. I dont think the behavior of paterno, or of ANYONE in the football program at penn state, even extending it to the college president, acted in the interest of the community.
I think thats where awards and prestige can harm you, or harm us. The idea of protecting this image of paterno's win legacy, and of penn states legacy as a legendary university and sports program, was behind the reason for alot of the secrecy, lies, omissions, falsities and nefarious behavior. and thats sad.
i;ll never win a single football game, let alone as many as paterno. Im a small italian kid. i'd get murdered on a football field. but i think when one meets the creator, god, what will be important will be how we conducted our lives, how we acted, how we hehaved, how we tried to make the world a better place.
and staying silent because you didnt want to tarnish your university, or bring shame and scrutiny and press coverage to a hallowed university, all the while kids are being abused, to me is pretty indefensible and egregious behavior. This goes for everyone involved. Really you did nothing to prevent abuse of kids, because you didnt want Penn State to be tarnished? really?
I think groups and interests protect their own. Police do this all the time. the thin blue line. they keep scandals in the house, because they know if it gets out, they will have serious problems. And i think universities, and penn state are no different.
They knew if it was known that penn state hired and worked with a molestor of children, the media and press would be ALL OVER campus nonstop. The legacy of the program and of paterno would be tarnished, and it would interfere with the stated goal of any sports program, but especially one like Penn State, which is to WIN MORE GAMES and WIN MORE CHAMPIONSHIPS.
and because people stayed silent and covered it up, it went from abuse of children which is outrageous and indefensible in any manner, but then it became a conspiracy, involving nearly every high official in the university. So paterno knew about sandusky, but so did Mcqueary, and the AD, and the university president. Again, how exactly did they interact with one another as they passed in the hallways? How could anyone go about their day knowing an abuser was on campus, AND WORKING AND INTERACTING WITH CHILDREN!