i dont know specfically why few if any people did or said anything when they knew abuse was going on. but i do think its clear part of it, was because of paterno's legendary legacy and the universities status as a school and the football programs legacy as well.
I think groups and interests protect their own. Police do this all the time. the thin blue line. they keep scandals in the house, because they know if it gets out, they will have serious problems. And i think universities, and penn state are no different.
They knew if it was known that penn state hired and worked with a molestor of children, the media and press would be ALL OVER campus nonstop. The legacy of the program and of paterno would be tarnished, and it would interfere with the stated goal of any sports program, but especially one like Penn State, which is to WIN MORE GAMES and WIN MORE CHAMPIONSHIPS.
and because people stayed silent and covered it up, it went from abuse of children which is outrageous and indefensible in any manner, but then it became a conspiracy, involving nearly every high official in the university. So paterno knew about sandusky, but so did Mcqueary, and the AD, and the university president. Again, how exactly did they interact with one another as they passed in the hallways? How could anyone go about their day knowing an abuser was on campus, AND WORKING AND INTERACTING WITH CHILDREN!
I don't think the Joe Pa's legacy would've been tarnished if he would've severed all ties with Sandusky a long time ago. Paterno had the power to keep the guy off campus and he was in the press box for a game just weeks(days?) before his arrest, years after the allegations began.
The guy did a ton for the university and surrounding area, but that doesn't erase what he didn't do that needed done. It's a pretty sad and unbelieveable story that has unfolded since this all came out.
I don't think it's right for people to come and post such awful stuff on the day a guy dies, but at the same time I completely understand those feelings.
I hope he was able to truly realize the wrong he did and went out with as much peace for him and his family as possible.
I don't think the Joe Pa's legacy would've been tarnished if he would've severed all ties with Sandusky a long time ago. Paterno had the power to keep the guy off campus and he was in the press box for a game just weeks(days?) before his arrest, years after the allegations began.
The guy did a ton for the university and surrounding area, but that doesn't erase what he didn't do that needed done. It's a pretty sad and unbelieveable story that has unfolded since this all came out.
I don't think it's right for people to come and post such awful stuff on the day a guy dies, but at the same time I completely understand those feelings.
I hope he was able to truly realize the wrong he did and went out with as much peace for him and his family as possible.
Sandusky deserves his future title in prison: Short Eyes. I really think JoePa was a regular guy and was not intellectually sophisticated enough to deal with this issue, did what he could, but still it is inexcusable that he continued to socialize/support Sandusky after knowing about it. that's his downfall.
i dont know specfically why few if any people did or said anything when they knew abuse was going on. but i do think its clear part of it, was because of paterno's legendary legacy and the universities status as a school and the football programs legacy as well.
I think groups and interests protect their own. Police do this all the time. the thin blue line. they keep scandals in the house, because they know if it gets out, they will have serious problems. And i think universities, and penn state are no different.
They knew if it was known that penn state hired and worked with a molestor of children, the media and press would be ALL OVER campus nonstop. The legacy of the program and of paterno would be tarnished, and it would interfere with the stated goal of any sports program, but especially one like Penn State, which is to WIN MORE GAMES and WIN MORE CHAMPIONSHIPS.
and because people stayed silent and covered it up, it went from abuse of children which is outrageous and indefensible in any manner, but then it became a conspiracy, involving nearly every high official in the university. So paterno knew about sandusky, but so did Mcqueary, and the AD, and the university president. Again, how exactly did they interact with one another as they passed in the hallways? How could anyone go about their day knowing an abuser was on campus, AND WORKING AND INTERACTING WITH CHILDREN!
I don't think the Joe Pa's legacy would've been tarnished if he would've severed all ties with Sandusky a long time ago. Paterno had the power to keep the guy off campus and he was in the press box for a game just weeks(days?) before his arrest, years after the allegations began.
The guy did a ton for the university and surrounding area, but that doesn't erase what he didn't do that needed done. It's a pretty sad and unbelieveable story that has unfolded since this all came out.
I don't think it's right for people to come and post such awful stuff on the day a guy dies, but at the same time I completely understand those feelings.
I hope he was able to truly realize the wrong he did and went out with as much peace for him and his family as possible.
This^ I think a noble thing to do, would have been for alot of these people, knowing that the university was doing nothing to prevent abuse and in fact was rewarding an abuser and looking the other way, would have been to make a big statement, and quit, expose the lies and corruption. I realize not everyone is that moral, brave, or can afford to do something like that. which is exactly why your post and suggestion is so right on. they all could have made choices even within all this. if paterno didnt want, or couldnt quit and expose everthing he could have made sure, that he was never in contact with sandusky ever again. he could have even made it a mission to make sure that sandusky wasnt around kids again. sandusky surely had other members on his charity staff. paterno could have spoken to them. Same with every single other person in this case. mcqueary could have done the same thing. the AD could have as well. and the university president as well.
and from my limited understanding, seems clear to me they could have fired and prevented sandusky from ever working on campus again, but chose not to. Just think, Mcqueary reports abuse, paterno reports abuse, the university acts, they all act, and yes a scandal would have occured, but it wouldnt have been nearly the thing that it was. Paterno would have kept his job, as would everyone else, except for sandusky. The fact they all did nothing is the downfall of every single person involved in this case. No one acted, so they all bear responsibility.
i think thats the gross thing about the case. people reported the abuse to others, or some did in some cases, but then after the abuse was reported, its like everyone got amnesia the next day and forgot. so everyone involved interacted with everyone else, and it sounds like it was never brought up at all ever again, until when it blew up a couple months ago. even on a moral and ethical level, wouldnt ANYONE of these people have been interested in what happened to the kids? or asked around why sandusky was still on campus? no one spoke of it again, and i think thats the bizaare thing. its like, you work at a coffee shop, and you view your boss abusing kids, and you speak to the coffee board of directors, alert your coworkers, alert your bosses boss and accuse your boss of molesting children who visit the store. then the next day, your boss is still there, and your coworkers are laughing and engaging in chat with the boss, and the abuse is never mentioned again. i dont know who could ever act like that.
Sandusky deserves his future title in prison: Short Eyes. I really think JoePa was a regular guy and was not intellectually sophisticated enough to deal with this issue, did what he could, but still it is inexcusable that he continued to socialize/support Sandusky after knowing about it. that's his downfall.
im not sure i totally agree. Yes, he should have done more obviously, and his support for sandusky is indeed inexcusable, but could he really not know how to deal with this? Seems pretty straightfoward to me. a trusted coworker told him he witnessed abuse. paterno then reported that, and then continued for years to see sandusky on campus and with kids, the obvious conclusion being that sandusky wasnt fired. i think the normal step, a few days after seeing sandusky remaining on campus after he told university officials, would have been for paterno to speak to the univesity president and figure out what had happened, did mcqueary lie he could have asked, was sandusky innocent, or he could have figured out the truth, which was that the university had covered it up, and had done nothing. I dont think that takes much energy to do these things. How many times do you think Paterno met or greeted or saw university officals each day, let alone since he told them of the abuse?
Its mindboggling and beyond disturbing that every single person involved, spoke of it once, if at all, and then never spoke of it again, to anyone. Thats the head scratcher to me. No one followed up, and i think thats an obvious moral and ethical failing but its also a very obvious intellectual failing as well. humans want to know things. know about things. learn things. why did not one person involved, want to know either what happened to these kids, or why the university never acted to prevent sandusky from coming to campus. wouldnt anyone be curious at all?
In the moments after Joe Paterno died, it became common for people to write and say that he died of a broken heart. He did not. Joe Paterno died of lung cancer and the complications it caused. He did not die a bitter or broken man.
I know this because I spent time with Paterno in his hospital room during the last weeks of his life. I am writing a book about Paterno. We spoke different times about many things -- from his days playing stickball in the streets of Brooklyn, to his time in the Army after World War II, through his playing days and his many coaching days, to, yes, the day a graduate assistant coach told him about seeing Jerry Sandusky in the shower with a young boy -- and what stood out above everything else is that Paterno refused to be bitter or sad about the way it all ended.
"In every life," he told me, "there have to be some shadows. Look at me. My life has been filled with sunshine. A beautiful and caring wife. Five healthy children. I got to do what I loved. How many people are that lucky?"
This is how he talked in those final days. Oh, sure, he did not like the way the board of trustees fired him without asking him any questions. He was disappointed that so many people fastened dark motives to the way he handled what he was told about Sandusky, his longtime assistant coach. ("I made a lot of mistakes in my life," he said. "But I thought people could see that I tried my best to do the right things. I tried to do the right thing with Sandusky too.") He was hurt that the program he had spent his life building was in trouble.
But he kept coming back to his own good fortune and the wonder of his career and life. ("I read this book by Joseph Conrad," he said. "That was a mistake. It's depressing.") He watched M*A*S*H quite a lot ("I never got to watch it when it was on -- that's a good show," he said), and he spent most of his time with family, friends and former players. His 85th birthday party in December was a family celebration. He told stories, and he was full of life. Christmas was hopeful. When he would see bald people, like yours truly, he would point at his own head, bald from the chemo, and say, "Hey, at least mine will grow back."
The last week or so was filled with pain and goodbyes, but even then Paterno did not falter into self-pity. In the last moment of his life, his son Jay recalled saying to his father: "You've done all you can do." And then Jay saw his father's shoulders shrug and his eyes close, and he stopped breathing. "My father did not have a broken heart," his daughter Mary Kay says. "His heart was too strong. It couldn't be broken."
I asked Paterno at one point in that last month if he hoped that people would come to see and measure his full life rather than a single, hazy event involving an alleged child molester. "It doesn't matter what people think of me," he said. "I've lived my life. I just hope the truth comes out. And I hope the victims find peace."
Thanks for that article. It is clear Poz's book will be a crappy surface tale. I do like how Joe continued to ignore the destruction he allowed and could have stopped. I guess I don't blame him. I wouldn't want to think of something so horrendous on my death bed. But, he's fooling himself if he thinks donating money to a university, even helping a bunch of people out outweighs the outright destruction of a number of children's lives that will continue to branch out, as those things do.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
It's obvious he made a mistake with the Sandusky issue, but it doesn't take away from the good man he was and the good life he lived.
I agree with the board for letting him go, I feel they had no choice. That being said, may he rest in peace.
I don't get that - yes, it does take away. This wasn't a little mistake. We all make mistakes. This was an outright crime of omission. And the worst kind. It absolutely abolishes anything he's done. The fact that his statue still stands in Happy Valley (ironic, isn't it? I guess feigned ignorance is bliss) is a blight on the University. His family should just shut up. The best thing they can do is let people forget about him (and apologists will always remember him, so they don't need to worry about that).
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
Thanks for that article. It is clear Poz's book will be a crappy surface tale. I do like how Joe continued to ignore the destruction he allowed and could have stopped. I guess I don't blame him. I wouldn't want to think of something so horrendous on my death bed. But, he's fooling himself if he thinks donating money to a university, even helping a bunch of people out outweighs the outright destruction of a number of children's lives that will continue to branch out, as those things do.
Being in the Philly area the Penn State and Paterno story has been pretty prominent since the beginning. With Paterno's death I honestly am not sure how to feel. On one hand he was a great man who did some great things for people far outside of just a football coach. On the other hand his legacy is clearly tainted by his inactions to Sandusky. I want to praise the man but I want to crucify the man as well. How does side A of the man cancel out Side B? Do all good deeds over an 85 year life span get dismissed because of one terrible mistake of inaction? Seeing the stories in the local papers about his death and legacy left me questionning whether it appropriate to write such stories. I didn't read them, not because i found them necessarily inappropriate, but just because I didn't want to read about the good things he did in his life.I don't hate the man but can't understand his inaction either. Basically I'm conflicted. I totally understand and respect Cliffy's feelings since he had a close personal connection to the man but I also understand the sentiments of those who are upset and disgusted by his inaction (although I do wish there was more respect at the moment and day of his death). I guess for once in my life I don't have a hard and fast answer, I'm somewhere in the middle which I think many who are closer to the Penn State area, but not with a direct connection are probably in the same boat.
i know i was rambling above but it's pretty much how my mind has been working with this particuilar case.
I'm hearing that all flags are at half-staff at schools and gov't buildings throughout Pennsylvania. Simply embarrassing. That should give you an idea of the power that Paterno had in the state.
And so you see, I have come to doubt All that I once held as true I stand alone without beliefs The only truth I know is you.
Being in the Philly area the Penn State and Paterno story has been pretty prominent since the beginning. With Paterno's death I honestly am not sure how to feel. On one hand he was a great man who did some great things for people far outside of just a football coach. On the other hand his legacy is clearly tainted by his inactions to Sandusky. I want to praise the man but I want to crucify the man as well. How does side A of the man cancel out Side B? Do all good deeds over an 85 year life span get dismissed because of one terrible mistake of inaction? Seeing the stories in the local papers about his death and legacy left me questionning whether it appropriate to write such stories. I didn't read them, not because i found them necessarily inappropriate, but just because I didn't want to read about the good things he did in his life.I don't hate the man but can't understand his inaction either. Basically I'm conflicted. I totally understand and respect Cliffy's feelings since he had a close personal connection to the man but I also understand the sentiments of those who are upset and disgusted by his inaction (although I do wish there was more respect at the moment and day of his death). I guess for once in my life I don't have a hard and fast answer, I'm somewhere in the middle which I think many who are closer to the Penn State area, but not with a direct connection are probably in the same boat.
i know i was rambling above but it's pretty much how my mind has been working with this particuilar case.
PJHawks...we agree for once. I got interviewed for an article in some newspaper from Mississippi about it (long story) and posted a link in the last post from the locked thread:
I'm hearing that all flags are at half-staff at schools and gov't buildings throughout Pennsylvania. Simply embarrassing. That should give you an idea of the power that Paterno had in the state.
Pennslvania state flags are being flown at half staff. Hardly embarrassing, but that's just me.
I've met Rob
DEGENERATE FUK
This place is dead
"THERE ARE NO CLIQUES, ONLY THOSE WHO DON'T JOIN THE FUN" - Empty circa 2015
I'm hearing that all flags are at half-staff at schools and gov't buildings throughout Pennsylvania. Simply embarrassing. That should give you an idea of the power that Paterno had in the state.
Pennslvania state flags are being flown at half staff. Hardly embarrassing, but that's just me.
It's hypocritical at best. The board, which is an extension of the state (since it is a state university) decided his trangressions were enough for an immediate dismissal. But, then 3 months later, they're honoring him statewide? So, which is it? Those things are mutually exclusive.
On top of which, when the State gets sued and the taxpayers are paying for his transgressions, I wonder if the flags will be at half staff then....
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
How exactly did Sandusky get caught? Or how was it revealed to the proper authorities about what he was doing? Was he still raping boys, or had he stopped at the time he was caught?
I'm hearing that all flags are at half-staff at schools and gov't buildings throughout Pennsylvania. Simply embarrassing. That should give you an idea of the power that Paterno had in the state.
Pennslvania state flags are being flown at half staff. Hardly embarrassing, but that's just me.
I agree.
and Empty Glass, I just LOVE your name and avatar. Love Pete and love that album.
Comments
I don't think the Joe Pa's legacy would've been tarnished if he would've severed all ties with Sandusky a long time ago. Paterno had the power to keep the guy off campus and he was in the press box for a game just weeks(days?) before his arrest, years after the allegations began.
The guy did a ton for the university and surrounding area, but that doesn't erase what he didn't do that needed done. It's a pretty sad and unbelieveable story that has unfolded since this all came out.
I don't think it's right for people to come and post such awful stuff on the day a guy dies, but at the same time I completely understand those feelings.
I hope he was able to truly realize the wrong he did and went out with as much peace for him and his family as possible.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
This^ I think a noble thing to do, would have been for alot of these people, knowing that the university was doing nothing to prevent abuse and in fact was rewarding an abuser and looking the other way, would have been to make a big statement, and quit, expose the lies and corruption. I realize not everyone is that moral, brave, or can afford to do something like that. which is exactly why your post and suggestion is so right on. they all could have made choices even within all this. if paterno didnt want, or couldnt quit and expose everthing he could have made sure, that he was never in contact with sandusky ever again. he could have even made it a mission to make sure that sandusky wasnt around kids again. sandusky surely had other members on his charity staff. paterno could have spoken to them. Same with every single other person in this case. mcqueary could have done the same thing. the AD could have as well. and the university president as well.
and from my limited understanding, seems clear to me they could have fired and prevented sandusky from ever working on campus again, but chose not to. Just think, Mcqueary reports abuse, paterno reports abuse, the university acts, they all act, and yes a scandal would have occured, but it wouldnt have been nearly the thing that it was. Paterno would have kept his job, as would everyone else, except for sandusky. The fact they all did nothing is the downfall of every single person involved in this case. No one acted, so they all bear responsibility.
i think thats the gross thing about the case. people reported the abuse to others, or some did in some cases, but then after the abuse was reported, its like everyone got amnesia the next day and forgot. so everyone involved interacted with everyone else, and it sounds like it was never brought up at all ever again, until when it blew up a couple months ago. even on a moral and ethical level, wouldnt ANYONE of these people have been interested in what happened to the kids? or asked around why sandusky was still on campus? no one spoke of it again, and i think thats the bizaare thing. its like, you work at a coffee shop, and you view your boss abusing kids, and you speak to the coffee board of directors, alert your coworkers, alert your bosses boss and accuse your boss of molesting children who visit the store. then the next day, your boss is still there, and your coworkers are laughing and engaging in chat with the boss, and the abuse is never mentioned again. i dont know who could ever act like that.
im not sure i totally agree. Yes, he should have done more obviously, and his support for sandusky is indeed inexcusable, but could he really not know how to deal with this? Seems pretty straightfoward to me. a trusted coworker told him he witnessed abuse. paterno then reported that, and then continued for years to see sandusky on campus and with kids, the obvious conclusion being that sandusky wasnt fired. i think the normal step, a few days after seeing sandusky remaining on campus after he told university officials, would have been for paterno to speak to the univesity president and figure out what had happened, did mcqueary lie he could have asked, was sandusky innocent, or he could have figured out the truth, which was that the university had covered it up, and had done nothing. I dont think that takes much energy to do these things. How many times do you think Paterno met or greeted or saw university officals each day, let alone since he told them of the abuse?
Its mindboggling and beyond disturbing that every single person involved, spoke of it once, if at all, and then never spoke of it again, to anyone. Thats the head scratcher to me. No one followed up, and i think thats an obvious moral and ethical failing but its also a very obvious intellectual failing as well. humans want to know things. know about things. learn things. why did not one person involved, want to know either what happened to these kids, or why the university never acted to prevent sandusky from coming to campus. wouldnt anyone be curious at all?
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/w ... index.html
In the moments after Joe Paterno died, it became common for people to write and say that he died of a broken heart. He did not. Joe Paterno died of lung cancer and the complications it caused. He did not die a bitter or broken man.
I know this because I spent time with Paterno in his hospital room during the last weeks of his life. I am writing a book about Paterno. We spoke different times about many things -- from his days playing stickball in the streets of Brooklyn, to his time in the Army after World War II, through his playing days and his many coaching days, to, yes, the day a graduate assistant coach told him about seeing Jerry Sandusky in the shower with a young boy -- and what stood out above everything else is that Paterno refused to be bitter or sad about the way it all ended.
"In every life," he told me, "there have to be some shadows. Look at me. My life has been filled with sunshine. A beautiful and caring wife. Five healthy children. I got to do what I loved. How many people are that lucky?"
This is how he talked in those final days. Oh, sure, he did not like the way the board of trustees fired him without asking him any questions. He was disappointed that so many people fastened dark motives to the way he handled what he was told about Sandusky, his longtime assistant coach. ("I made a lot of mistakes in my life," he said. "But I thought people could see that I tried my best to do the right things. I tried to do the right thing with Sandusky too.") He was hurt that the program he had spent his life building was in trouble.
But he kept coming back to his own good fortune and the wonder of his career and life. ("I read this book by Joseph Conrad," he said. "That was a mistake. It's depressing.") He watched M*A*S*H quite a lot ("I never got to watch it when it was on -- that's a good show," he said), and he spent most of his time with family, friends and former players. His 85th birthday party in December was a family celebration. He told stories, and he was full of life. Christmas was hopeful. When he would see bald people, like yours truly, he would point at his own head, bald from the chemo, and say, "Hey, at least mine will grow back."
The last week or so was filled with pain and goodbyes, but even then Paterno did not falter into self-pity. In the last moment of his life, his son Jay recalled saying to his father: "You've done all you can do." And then Jay saw his father's shoulders shrug and his eyes close, and he stopped breathing. "My father did not have a broken heart," his daughter Mary Kay says. "His heart was too strong. It couldn't be broken."
I asked Paterno at one point in that last month if he hoped that people would come to see and measure his full life rather than a single, hazy event involving an alleged child molester. "It doesn't matter what people think of me," he said. "I've lived my life. I just hope the truth comes out. And I hope the victims find peace."
It's obvious he made a mistake with the Sandusky issue, but it doesn't take away from the good man he was and the good life he lived.
I agree with the board for letting him go, I feel they had no choice. That being said, may he rest in peace.
I don't get that - yes, it does take away. This wasn't a little mistake. We all make mistakes. This was an outright crime of omission. And the worst kind. It absolutely abolishes anything he's done. The fact that his statue still stands in Happy Valley (ironic, isn't it? I guess feigned ignorance is bliss) is a blight on the University. His family should just shut up. The best thing they can do is let people forget about him (and apologists will always remember him, so they don't need to worry about that).
i know i was rambling above but it's pretty much how my mind has been working with this particuilar case.
DEGENERATE FUK
This place is dead
"THERE ARE NO CLIQUES, ONLY THOSE WHO DON'T JOIN THE FUN" - Empty circa 2015
"Kfsbho&$thncds" - F Me In the Brain - circa 2015
Tom O.
"I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?"
-The Writer
All that I once held as true
I stand alone without beliefs
The only truth I know is you.
http://www.clarionledger.com/article/DB ... ionstories
Hopefully we learn from this and move on in a positive way.
Pennslvania state flags are being flown at half staff. Hardly embarrassing, but that's just me.
DEGENERATE FUK
This place is dead
"THERE ARE NO CLIQUES, ONLY THOSE WHO DON'T JOIN THE FUN" - Empty circa 2015
"Kfsbho&$thncds" - F Me In the Brain - circa 2015
It's hypocritical at best. The board, which is an extension of the state (since it is a state university) decided his trangressions were enough for an immediate dismissal. But, then 3 months later, they're honoring him statewide? So, which is it? Those things are mutually exclusive.
On top of which, when the State gets sued and the taxpayers are paying for his transgressions, I wonder if the flags will be at half staff then....
http://video.btn.com/allaccess/?media=294112
Tom O.
"I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?"
-The Writer
I agree.
and Empty Glass, I just LOVE your name and avatar. Love Pete and love that album.
that won't be good for business
phil knight the owner of nike??
sell your stocks now folks!
No and he just trashed the board of trustees.