Circumcision poll - ladies too

1567810

Comments

  • 8181 Posts: 58,276
    DS1119 wrote:
    I'm for whatever the law dictates.

    so you are cool with some places requiring burqa's
    81 is now off the air

    Off_Air.jpg
  • rick1zoo2rick1zoo2 Posts: 12,632
    I do not care for this thread.
  • faceinthecloudsfaceintheclouds Posts: 1,739
    Both my kids are done. It's just better for health reasons. This dude I worked with got it done a few years ago cause it was causing him issues. And he was in a world of hurt after it. So I'm pro hood cutting
    Just, not enough.
    I need more.
    Nothing seems to satisfy.
    I said, I dont want it.
    I just need it.
    To breathe, to feel, to know Im alive.
  • DS1119DS1119 Posts: 33,497
    81 wrote:
    DS1119 wrote:
    I'm for whatever the law dictates.

    so you are cool with some places requiring burqa's


    Sure. I didn't know those were the law in the US though?
  • IrishGuyIrishGuy Posts: 258
    DS1119 wrote:
    IrishGuy wrote:

    Is that your thought on female genital mutalation as well? That it should be up to the parent to choose?

    Have you known females that have had it done? I do. And you know what, she thought it was also completely normal and said she still enjoyed her sex life.
    I was horrified by the fact that she'd had this done to her as a kid and against her consent but coming from where she did, it was normal.
    Normal doesn't mean its right.

    I love how you keep criss crossing the line of male circumcision and disguising it and hiding it behind female genital "mutilation". I'm for whatever the law dictates. If male circumcision is still legal in my country I fully support the parent's right to choose. Stop trying to push your "morals" on other people becasue quite frankly there's quite a bit that could be brought up about Germanys past and present concerning people's own free wills and human rights that could be discussed and we frankly don't need to go there.

    I love how you avoid the question. And how come I am pushing my morals onto people by arguing a topic yet you aren't pushing your morals by arguing the other side? :?

    What does German's past have to do with anything here? Say what you like, I'm not german. I'll give you a clue...its in my username.
  • DS1119DS1119 Posts: 33,497
    IrishGuy wrote:
    morals onto people by arguing a topic yet you aren't pushing your morals by arguing the other side? :?

    What does German's past have to do with anything here? Say what you like, I'm not german. I'll give you a clue...its in my username.


    The article you keep referring to is from Germany and your location shows Germany. I'm not pushing my morals at all. It's up to individual families to choose what they want as dictated by their culture, religion, and then ultimately the law. To answer your questions about females having the procedure. It's up to the family to decide again and if in their country they aren't breaking the law...go for it. I'm not in those people's heads. I don't live amongst them or fully understand their culture. WHo am I to read some obscure internet article and feel a need to determine that thousands of years of their culture is wrong and barbaric?
  • IrishGuyIrishGuy Posts: 258
    Fair enough if that is how you feel. At least you are being consistent.

    I however do feel a need to challenge outdated and barbaric practices and hope that we can move onto towards a better society.
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 37,872
    IrishGuy wrote:
    Fair enough if that is how you feel. At least you are being consistent.

    I however do feel a need to challenge what I believe to be outdated and barbaric practices and hope that we can move onto towards a better society.
    Fixed that right up for ya Irish!!!
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • IrishGuyIrishGuy Posts: 258
    Cheers :lol:
  • DS1119DS1119 Posts: 33,497
    mickeyrat wrote:
    IrishGuy wrote:
    Fair enough if that is how you feel. At least you are being consistent.

    I however do feel a need to challenge what I believe to be outdated and barbaric practices and hope that we can move onto towards a better society.
    Fixed that right up for ya Irish!!!


    You hit the nail on the head right there Mickey.
  • Johnny AbruzzoJohnny Abruzzo Posts: 11,359
    81 wrote:
    found articles saying it was meant to decrease sexual pleasure in pubescent boys and deter masturbation

    pretty sure that article is wrong. :lol:

    Yeah... That didn't work so well. :lol:


    We had another boy on Christmas Eve and had him circumcised as well. I am happy with the decision, and with my parents' decision as well. 8-)
    Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; WF Center 10/21/13; WF Center 10/22/13; Baltimore 10/27/13;
    WF Center 4/28/16; WF Center 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22;
    Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; WF Center 9/7/24; WF Center 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24

    Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 37,872
    IrishGuy wrote:
    Cheers :lol:
    to you as well. Just a bit of perspective reminder we are ALL speaking from our beliefs, no matter how wrong everyone elses is!!! :mrgreen:
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • RygarRygar Posts: 8,685
    They all fit!
    Can't we all just get along?
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,891
    IrishGuy wrote:
    The foreskin isn't a deformity and other than Jews and Muslims cutting it because their imaginary friend in the sky told them to, the rest of the world outside the US manages to get by without chopping off normal bits of healthy tissue from newborn babies.
    Yes, they can get by... if they choose to. I don't see the problem here.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • JaneNYJaneNY Posts: 4,438
    IrishGuy wrote:
    The foreskin isn't a deformity and other than Jews and Muslims cutting it because their imaginary friend in the sky told them to, the rest of the world outside the US manages to get by without chopping off normal bits of healthy tissue from newborn babies.

    I agree with this. Again, why not let each human being decide for themselves, when they are capable of making the decision *for themselves*, actual choose whether or not to be circumcised. I just don't see why people feel they must make this decision for others.

    While it is not really comparable, I know many people pierce their kids' ears when they are infants. We waited till our girls asked to have it done, as I felt it needed to be their decision - it is the same principle - acknowledge the right of people to make decisions about their own bodies.
    R.i.p. Rigoberto Alpizar.
    R.i.p. My Dad - May 28, 2007
    R.i.p. Black Tail (cat) - Sept. 20, 2008
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,891
    JaneNY wrote:
    IrishGuy wrote:
    The foreskin isn't a deformity and other than Jews and Muslims cutting it because their imaginary friend in the sky told them to, the rest of the world outside the US manages to get by without chopping off normal bits of healthy tissue from newborn babies.

    I agree with this. Again, why not let each human being decide for themselves, when they are capable of making the decision *for themselves*, actual choose whether or not to be circumcised. I just don't see why people feel they must make this decision for others.

    While it is not really comparable, I know many people pierce their kids' ears when they are infants. We waited till our girls asked to have it done, as I felt it needed to be their decision - it is the same principle - acknowledge the right of people to make decisions about their own bodies.
    My mom had my ears pierced when I was 6 months old actually. And I'm really glad she did so I didn't have to be scared about doing when I was an older kid. Infant circumcisions are not traumatizing, as those who have seen babies right after it was done have attested. The baby has no idea what's going on. Again, vaccinations hurt too - babies kick up no more fuss when they get their shots than with this procedure. It is parents' jobs to make decisions on behalf of their children until their children are able to make their own. It is totally within the rights of parents to make these choices. I think it's kind of crazy to suggest that parents should just leave all decisions that affect their kids to the children when they're old enough. It just doesn't work that way. Parents make choices for their kids everyday that will affect them later in life (religion, education, discipline, world views, etc etc etc). I see no reason why parents shouldn't make this decision if they want to.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • IrishGuyIrishGuy Posts: 258
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    My mom had my ears pierced when I was 6 months old actually. And I'm really glad she did so I didn't have to be scared about doing when I was an older kid. Infant circumcisions are not traumatizing, as those who have seen babies right after it was done have attested. The baby has no idea what's going on. Again, vaccinations hurt too - babies kick up no more fuss when they get their shots than with this procedure. It is parents' jobs to make decisions on behalf of their children until their children are able to make their own. It is totally within the rights of parents to make these choices. I think it's kind of crazy to suggest that parents should just leave all decisions that affect their kids to the children when they're old enough. It just doesn't work that way.

    Again, there is no good reason to circumcise a newborn baby and as for it not being traumatizing well as you might have read earlier there are a number of babies that actually die each year from this uncessary procedure. Why put them through the risk of infection by cutting oof perfectly healthy skin? It makes no sense.
    You are offering no benefits such as those given by vaccinations yet opening up your newborn child to a risk of infection and even further side effects.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,891
    IrishGuy wrote:
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    My mom had my ears pierced when I was 6 months old actually. And I'm really glad she did so I didn't have to be scared about doing when I was an older kid. Infant circumcisions are not traumatizing, as those who have seen babies right after it was done have attested. The baby has no idea what's going on. Again, vaccinations hurt too - babies kick up no more fuss when they get their shots than with this procedure. It is parents' jobs to make decisions on behalf of their children until their children are able to make their own. It is totally within the rights of parents to make these choices. I think it's kind of crazy to suggest that parents should just leave all decisions that affect their kids to the children when they're old enough. It just doesn't work that way.

    Again, there is no good reason to circumcise a newborn baby and as for it not being traumatizing well as you might have read earlier there are a number of babies that actually die each year from this uncessary procedure. Why put them through the risk of infection by cutting oof perfectly healthy skin? It makes no sense.
    You are offering no benefits such as those given by vaccinations yet opening up your newborn child to a risk of infection and even further side effects.
    I believe that there are lots of benefits to it, and it makes sense to me, as my initial posts outlined. I understand that you disagree and don't think there is benefit, but I do, and obviously lots of other people do too. Again, it is a matter of opinion and choice. You keep saying there is no benefit and it's unnecessary. I don't agree with you. As for the tiny risk... I'm just one of those people who are more comfortable with minimal risks. I mean, I would put my child in a car, and that is WAY more dangerous than circumcision.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • IrishGuyIrishGuy Posts: 258
    Oh you believe it but none of the doctors organisations do. I guess you know better than the medical community then.
    In June 2004 the College of Physicians and Surgeons of British Columbia said:

    "Infant male circumcision was once considered a preventive health measure and was therefore adopted extensively in Western countries. Current understanding of the benefits, risks and potential harm of this procedure, however, no longer supports this practice for prophylactic health benefit. Routine infant male circumcision performed on a healthy infant is now considered a non-therapeutic and medically unnecessary intervention
    The American Academy of Pediatrics stated in 1999: ‘Existing scientific evidence … [is]
    not sufficient to recommend routine neonatal circumcision.’26 The American Medical
    Association endorsed this position in December 1999 and now rejects circumcision for
    medical/preventative reasons. The AMA further states: ‘parental
    preference alone is not
    sufficient justification for performing a surgical procedure on a child’.
    The Royal Australasian College of Physicians (RACP; 2009) state that "after extensive review of the literature" they "[do] not recommend that routine circumcision in infancy be performed".
    The Fetus and Newborn Committee of the Canadian Paediatric Society posted "Circumcision: Information for Parents" in November 2004,[8] and "Neonatal circumcision revisited" in 1996. The 1996 position statement says that "circumcision of newborns should not be routinely performed", and the 2004 advice to parents says it "does not recommend circumcision for newborn boys. Many paediatricians no longer perform circumcisions
    The Royal Dutch Medical Association issued a new policy in May 2010: "The official viewpoint of KNMG and other related medical/scientific organisations is that non-therapeutic circumcision of male minors is a violation of children’s rights to autonomy and physical integrity. Contrary to popular belief, circumcision can cause complications – bleeding, infection, urethral stricture and panic attacks are particularly common. KNMG is therefore urging a strong policy of deterrence. KNMG is calling upon doctors to actively and insistently inform parents who are considering the procedure of the absence of medical benefits and the danger of complications."[4]
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,891
    IrishGuy wrote:
    Oh you believe it but none of the doctors organisations do. I guess you know better than the medical community then.
    The American Academy of Pediatrics stated in 1999: ‘Existing scientific evidence … [is]
    not sufficient to recommend routine neonatal circumcision.’26 The American Medical
    Association endorsed this position in December 1999 and now rejects circumcision for
    medical/preventative reasons. The AMA further states: ‘parental
    preference alone is not
    sufficient justification for performing a surgical procedure on a child’.
    There are tons of doctors who have no problem at all with it. I've paid attention to the issue too, and have heard and read lots and lots of material where doctors find no problem in the procedure. There are two sides to it, and you're ignoring one whole side.... as most opponents of circumcision do, I've noticed. They also make up bullshit theories, like how it reduced sexual performance, etc., and tend to ignore medical evidence that is contrary to their views:

    Here are just a few links from a very quick Google search to point out that many doctors do not make anti-circumcision claims. I could offer many others, but don't see the point:

    http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2011/0 ... sc0822.htm

    http://www.who.int/hiv/topics/malecircumcision/en/

    http://mandatorycircumcision.blogspot.c ... -anti.html

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2422990/

    So as you see, there is another side to the coin. I realize it's a contentious issue (oddly - not sure why folks can't just leave it alone as a personal family decision), but there is very clearly two sides to take. There is a lot of reason to believe that circumcision is medically beneficial. You're on one side of the fence along with many others. I'm on the other side of the fence, along with many others. Given that there are two valid viewpoints from the medical community, and medical evidence that both supports and devalues the procedure, I think it is very reasonable to leave the decision up to the parents, as long as they are well-informed of the benefits and risks involved.

    I think this quote from Dr. Douglas S. Diekema, a member of the American Academy of Pediatrics task force on circumcision, wraps it up nicely (keeping in mind that there are many proponents who would argue the medical benefits are greater than he claims here):

    “There’s no compelling medical reason to do it. There’s also no compelling reason that it’s not a valid choice for families to make. There are some small benefits, and these need to be weighed against the risks.”

    And I'd like to point out this quote is recent, not from 1999 like your source.

    Not to mention people's non-medical reasons to do it, like hygienic, religious, cosmetic, and cultural.

    Informed choice is good!
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Johnny AbruzzoJohnny Abruzzo Posts: 11,359
    As with vaccinations, circumcision makes more sense to be done to an infant than to an adult.
    Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; WF Center 10/21/13; WF Center 10/22/13; Baltimore 10/27/13;
    WF Center 4/28/16; WF Center 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22;
    Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; WF Center 9/7/24; WF Center 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24

    Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
  • chadwickchadwick Posts: 21,157
    Both my kids are done. It's just better for health reasons. This dude I worked with got it done a few years ago cause it was causing him issues. And he was in a world of hurt after it. So I'm pro hood cutting
    stfu! i bet that would be out of the mind pain
    fuck that

    what do you think some of his issues were did he ever say?

    things like... ya know, i have an anteater
    or
    ya know, my junk stinks sometimes quite a bit
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."

    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,891
    chadwick wrote:
    Both my kids are done. It's just better for health reasons. This dude I worked with got it done a few years ago cause it was causing him issues. And he was in a world of hurt after it. So I'm pro hood cutting
    stfu! i bet that would be out of the mind pain
    fuck that

    what do you think some of his issues were did he ever say?

    things like... ya know, i have an anteater
    or
    ya know, my junk stinks sometimes quite a bit
    Adults outside of the porn industry usually do it because there is something wrong with the structure of the foreskin. As I mentioned before, a somewhat common condition is where the foreskin won't open enough to allow the head of the penis to clear it, and that can cause lots of problems, both sexually and medically. And I've heard that a less common one is that it attaches itself to the penis and can't retract.

    From what I've learned from noticing it in some porn video and then looking it up out of curiosity, when an adult gets it done you can tell. It leave a well-defined change in colour. The base is darker, and 1/4 to 1/2 way down, it suddenly changes to a lighter colour.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • chadwickchadwick Posts: 21,157
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    Adults outside of the porn industry usually do it because there is something wrong with the structure of the foreskin. As I mentioned before, a somewhat common condition is where the foreskin won't open enough to allow the head of the penis to clear it, and that can cause lots of problems, both sexually and medically. And I've heard that a less common one is that it attaches itself to the penis and can't retract.

    From what I've learned from noticing it in some porn video and then looking it up out of curiosity, when an adult gets it done you can tell. It leave a well-defined change in colour. The base is darker, and 1/4 to 1/2 way down, it suddenly changes to a lighter colour.
    i've saw this guy perform. his john roger is two different colors just as you describe. birthmark or circumcised as an adult.
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."

    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,891
    chadwick wrote:
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    Adults outside of the porn industry usually do it because there is something wrong with the structure of the foreskin. As I mentioned before, a somewhat common condition is where the foreskin won't open enough to allow the head of the penis to clear it, and that can cause lots of problems, both sexually and medically. And I've heard that a less common one is that it attaches itself to the penis and can't retract.

    From what I've learned from noticing it in some porn video and then looking it up out of curiosity, when an adult gets it done you can tell. It leave a well-defined change in colour. The base is darker, and 1/4 to 1/2 way down, it suddenly changes to a lighter colour.
    i've saw this guy perform. his john roger is two different colors just as you describe. birthmark or circumcised as an adult.
    I believe there are a number of porn actors out there like that... not very many guys with foreskin in porn, so it's a pretty common procedure for porn actors looking to get more jobs.... so there's another reason for parents to do it... make it easier or their kids to break into porn. :? :? ;)
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • comebackgirlcomebackgirl Posts: 9,885
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    chadwick wrote:
    Both my kids are done. It's just better for health reasons. This dude I worked with got it done a few years ago cause it was causing him issues. And he was in a world of hurt after it. So I'm pro hood cutting
    stfu! i bet that would be out of the mind pain
    fuck that

    what do you think some of his issues were did he ever say?

    things like... ya know, i have an anteater
    or
    ya know, my junk stinks sometimes quite a bit
    Adults outside of the porn industry usually do it because there is something wrong with the structure of the foreskin. As I mentioned before, a somewhat common condition is where the foreskin won't open enough to allow the head of the penis to clear it, and that can cause lots of problems, both sexually and medically. And I've heard that a less common one is that it attaches itself to the penis and can't retract.

    From what I've learned from noticing it in some porn video and then looking it up out of curiosity, when an adult gets it done you can tell. It leave a well-defined change in colour. The base is darker, and 1/4 to 1/2 way down, it suddenly changes to a lighter colour.
    I couldn't find any current research on this. All of the articles I found were from 13+ years ago, none pertained to intractable foreskin. I'm wondering what the stats are of men who do experience this, but couldn't find any current research. I did find one article from 1999 that said circumcision helps prevent the spread of HIV in rural Uganda...not sure if that's relevant for most of the guys on this board :lol:
    tumblr_mg4nc33pIX1s1mie8o1_400.gif

    "I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
  • chadwickchadwick Posts: 21,157
    http://youtu.be/3uklOdpa0-k
    literally someone's stuff in a glass of wine
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."

    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,891
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    chadwick wrote:
    stfu! i bet that would be out of the mind pain
    fuck that

    what do you think some of his issues were did he ever say?

    things like... ya know, i have an anteater
    or
    ya know, my junk stinks sometimes quite a bit
    Adults outside of the porn industry usually do it because there is something wrong with the structure of the foreskin. As I mentioned before, a somewhat common condition is where the foreskin won't open enough to allow the head of the penis to clear it, and that can cause lots of problems, both sexually and medically. And I've heard that a less common one is that it attaches itself to the penis and can't retract.

    From what I've learned from noticing it in some porn video and then looking it up out of curiosity, when an adult gets it done you can tell. It leave a well-defined change in colour. The base is darker, and 1/4 to 1/2 way down, it suddenly changes to a lighter colour.
    I couldn't find any current research on this. All of the articles I found were from 13+ years ago, none pertained to intractable foreskin. I'm wondering what the stats are of men who do experience this, but couldn't find any current research. I did find one article from 1999 that said circumcision helps prevent the spread of HIV in rural Uganda...not sure if that's relevant for most of the guys on this board :lol:
    The WHO support the procedure in Africa because of the HIV thing.
    I've personally met a guy with the foreskin not retracting problem, and he told me all about it - he said his doctor told him it's fairly common (i.e. 1/100 kind of thing). And when I looked it up after that out of curiosity, I found some posted on Yahoo! Answers with the same problem (and ashamed to go to the doctors, largely).
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    chadwick wrote:
    http://youtu.be/3uklOdpa0-k
    literally someone's stuff in a glass of wine
    That is one badass creature.
  • comebackgirlcomebackgirl Posts: 9,885
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    The WHO support the procedure in Africa because of the HIV thing.
    I've personally met a guy with the foreskin not retracting problem, and he told me all about it - he said his doctor told him it's fairly common (i.e. 1/100 kind of thing). And when I looked it up after that out of curiosity, I found some posted on Yahoo! Answers with the same problem (and ashamed to go to the doctors, largely).
    Yes - that makes sense, considering they wouldn't necessarily have the same access to prophylaxis in Africa . I heard 10% as well regarding retracting problems, but couldn't find any documented research on this, just anecdotal accounts. Do you have any links to research articles?
    tumblr_mg4nc33pIX1s1mie8o1_400.gif

    "I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Sign In or Register to comment.