Should the players accept a Fehr-less meeting with the owners?
Jason Brough
Nov 30, 2012, 12:43 PM EST
10 Comments
AP
Yesterday, after two days of failed mediation, news broke that NHL commissioner Gary Bettman had proposed to NHLPA chief Donald Fehr that the players and owners get together without Bettman and Fehr in the room.
The idea was that the removal of the two leaders, each of which has drawn the ire of the other side (and that’s putting it lightly), would reduce the animosity at the bargaining table.
At least, that’s how the league sold it.
“We want to find a way to get to a deal,” NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly said. “Nothing else has worked. The commissioner felt that we might as well propose something different. We will see how they respond.”
For fans, the proposal was a welcome one. If that’s the way a deal gets done, do it. (And if that doesn’t work, flip a coin or have an arm wrestle. Anything to end this ridiculous lockout.)
But is it the right move for the players? After all, these are not sophisticated deal-makers; they play hockey for a living. Without Fehr, who’s going to look out for them?
Yahoo!’s Nick Cotsonikas thinks it’s a risk the players have to take.
This smells like a trap. After two sessions with U.S. federal mediators went nowhere, NHL commissioner Gary Bettman made a suggestion Thursday – a meeting between owners and players only.
It seems like a PR move. It seems like another negotiating tactic designed to go around NHL Players’ Association leadership, like when the league gave executives a secret window to explain a proposal to players. It seems like a mismatch – seasoned businessmen vs. hockey players.
But they’ve got to try, at least under certain conditions. Joining the nobles is the only hope for the season. You know what happens if they don’t take this chance?
Nothing.
Ken Campbell of The Hockey News disagrees:
Look for player-friendly owner representatives such as Mario Lemieux and John Davidson to be very prominent in these meetings if they take place. They have an enormous amount of credibility with the players and Lemieux, the NHL likely believes, has an enormous amount of sway over Sidney Crosby. And if a star such as Crosby begins to cave, then perhaps others will follow.
Which is why, from this corner, it makes very little sense for the players to allow this to happen. They hired Fehr precisely to do what he has done so far to the owners and it has been a brilliant tactic. And as far as the players have been concerned, Fehr has been the equivalent of the Pied Piper of Hamelin, constantly being flanked by grim looking superstars at every photo opportunity.
Dealing directly with owners has always represented an enormous disadvantage for the players. That’s why they have agents to negotiate their contracts for them. And that’s why they have Fehr to do their dirty work for them.
The NHLPA has yet to accept or decline the league’s offer.
If it does accept, the next step would be determining the format of the meeting, as well as who’s invited.
“It might be helpful if we can get some other owners in the room,” Pittsburgh forward Craig Adams told the Post-Gazette.
(Translation: Owners besides Jeremy Jacobs, Ted Leonsis, Murray Edwards and Craig Leipold.)
If it declines, the next step may be decertification.
For the ones who had a notion, a notion deep inside
That it ain't no sin to be glad you're alive
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for sure a trap ... the owners are essentially all made up of lawyers and such ... if the players can bring key agents in - that might shift the balance a bit ...
if any side wants to win the PR war ... agree to binding arbitration ...
For the ones who had a notion, a notion deep inside
That it ain't no sin to be glad you're alive
ORGAN DONATION SAVES LIVES http://www.UNOS.org
Donate Organs and Save a Life
Anyone expecting anything to come out of this meeting today??? I'm not expecting shit, but I pray that I am wrong.
i don't think anything will happen until january ... the real d-day for the season ...
it's basically come down to this ... bettman has promised the owners that he can break the union and have them cave ... the nhlpa will have to prove it won't break for the owners to move ... without any immediate urgency (deadline) - it's all posturing now to see who blinks first ...
fehr has one thing going for him ... the absolute loathing the players have for bettman now ... and the reality is that he presents himself as someone who can be hated on pretty good ... so, that's where i think we are at ...
Gary Bettman is wasting his talents as an ineffective leader, his unlikable personality, his lack of foresight and concern for the future, his inability to connect with those he works for, and his general disregard for success in the NHL.
Gary Bettman is wasting his talents as an ineffective leader, his unlikable personality, his lack of foresight and concern for the future, his inability to connect with those he works for, and his general disregard for success in the NHL.
He should run for U.S. Congress.
He's a perfect fit.
Gary Bettman - US Congress 2014!
haha ... well ... he is a lawyer ... which makes me consider ... of the 4 major sports leagues ... we haven't had any work stoppages in the nfl and mlb in a long time ... both commissioned by non-lawyers ... meanwhile - the nba and nhl commissioned by lawyers have seen persistent disruptions in the game ... :problem: :think:
So things look a little more positive this morning. I still think we get hockey this year. The question is does Fuhr and bettman keep their positions if the deal is struck without them?
I think Bettman does but i think Fuhr leaves and his brother gets the job
So things look a little more positive this morning. I still think we get hockey this year. The question is does Fuhr and bettman keep their positions if the deal is struck without them?
I think Bettman does but i think Fuhr leaves and his brother gets the job
If a deal happens with these 2 jerkoffs not in the room, then they should both be gone. What purpose do they serve if they can't help get a deal done??
That jerk professor totally teaches at my alma mater. I beg to differ - Dallas does have a hockey culture.
drivingrl: "Will I ever get to meet Gwen Stefani?"
kevinbeetle: "Yes. When her career washes up and her and Gavin move to Galveston, you will meet her at Hot Topic shopping for a Japanese cheerleader outfit.
dallas is near the bottom in attendance ... maybe it's related to the owners ... not sure ... but they are piss poor in attendance ...
You know, that attendance issue began last season (or the season prior to that, can't remember). Prior to that, attendance wasn't too shabby. But yeah, last season, attendance was scary low.
drivingrl: "Will I ever get to meet Gwen Stefani?"
kevinbeetle: "Yes. When her career washes up and her and Gavin move to Galveston, you will meet her at Hot Topic shopping for a Japanese cheerleader outfit.
apparently ... crosby has been working with lemieux and burkle on trying to settle this ... gotta say this for the kid - he is showing leadership ...
While as a flyers fan i am predisposed to not like him, i think he is doing some good work. I wonder if he ever goes up to Mario and says "hey, if it was not for me you would never have gotten that new rink and you would be in another city" if he ever said that i would cheer for him.
apparently ... crosby has been working with lemieux and burkle on trying to settle this ... gotta say this for the kid - he is showing leadership ...
While as a flyers fan i am predisposed to not like him, i think he is doing some good work. I wonder if he ever goes up to Mario and says "hey, if it was not for me you would never have gotten that new rink and you would be in another city" if he ever said that i would cheer for him.
And if I was Mario and he said that ... I'd trade his ass to Columbus after signing him to a 14 year contract with a no - trade clause. Fortunately for Mario and Pittsburgh I think Crosby respect's Mario and all the great players before him that made it possible for him to earn 10 million plus a year.
Besides Mario worked tirelessly to keep the team in Pittsburgh ... As far as I'm concerned a deal would likely be done if it wasn't for Snider and Jacobs ...
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I was against contraction... But the more I think about it, the league would be great with 28 teams, 7 in each Division, 4 from each Division make the playoffs.
I dont know how the ownership is, but I would lop off Anaheim (already have LA market with a very good young exciting team), and also one of the Florida teams. If you cant fix Phoenix, allow them to move to Quebec.
it seems like something may get done this week. It seems like they are at a real deadline hear. Reportedly, a lot of sponsors have rights to get 'relief' if the NHL misses 1/4 of the season. This is about the deadline to hit 60 games, so both sides know there is a large difference between making a deal now, and making one in a month or more.
That jerk professor totally teaches at my alma mater. I beg to differ - Dallas does have a hockey culture.
Once this lock-out is over Dallas along with both Florida teams and Phoenix should be gone...I know it won't happen...one can dream though.
Optimally the NHL should have no more than 24 teams ... The game would be so much , .
the Funny thing is that I can see the NHL expand to 2 more teams.
Sure they will ... They'll get anther 500 million expansion fee ... The quality of the product will continue to get worse ... It's already a poor quality product, it'll just get worse, Bettman convinced the owners in the 90's that the European talent pool was deep ... Well it's ... Actually I believe the Canadian presence in the NHL has rise from about 48% to 53% since 2002 (if I'm not mistaken), look at the absolute rising stars in this league, they re Canadian, the last 4 cup champions comprised of 14-15 Canucks ... We can't keep expanding this league without the talent pool to support it, it's just not there.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
apparently ... crosby has been working with lemieux and burkle on trying to settle this ... gotta say this for the kid - he is showing leadership ...
While as a flyers fan i am predisposed to not like him, i think he is doing some good work. I wonder if he ever goes up to Mario and says "hey, if it was not for me you would never have gotten that new rink and you would be in another city" if he ever said that i would cheer for him.
And if I was Mario and he said that ... I'd trade his ass to Columbus after signing him to a 14 year contract with a no - trade clause. Fortunately for Mario and Pittsburgh I think Crosby respect's Mario and all the great players before him that made it possible for him to earn 10 million plus a year.
Besides Mario worked tirelessly to keep the team in Pittsburgh ... As far as I'm concerned a deal would likely be done if it wasn't for Snider and Jacobs ...
I hope you know i was joking about Crosby saying that but it would be funny. I won't put the blame on just 2 people. to be honest, there was no pressure on both sides to get things done before. you have alot of teams that are happy not having hockey until January.
That jerk professor totally teaches at my alma mater. I beg to differ - Dallas does have a hockey culture.
Once this lock-out is over Dallas along with both Florida teams and Phoenix should be gone...I know it won't happen...one can dream though.
Optimally the NHL should have no more than 24 teams ... The game would be so much , .
the Funny thing is that I can see the NHL expand to 2 more teams.
Sure they will ... They'll get anther 500 million expansion fee ... The quality of the product will continue to get worse ... It's already a poor quality product, it'll just get worse, Bettman convinced the owners in the 90's that the European talent pool was deep ... Well it's ... Actually I believe the Canadian presence in the NHL has rise from about 48% to 53% since 2002 (if I'm not mistaken), look at the absolute rising stars in this league, they re Canadian, the last 4 cup champions comprised of 14-15 Canucks ... We can't keep expanding this league without the talent pool to support it, it's just not there.[/quote]
I disagree that the product has gotten worse. I remember the late 80 and early 90s and that time hockey was at it lowest imo.
The problem is that all the players are a bit too good and too efficient at what they do. Defensive systems have been perfected and stifle offensive play. The rules arent/cant be called like they should. Goalies are just too big and take up too much space.
I also think the phasing out of the truly spirited rivalries and fighting has hurt the entertainment value. I remember going to games and the first thing i would look at is the opposing teams' roster to see what fighters they have.
I also think the fact that the players are so wealthy now, there is less motivation over an 82 game schedule. You only really see intense action when there are playoffs, or olympic medals are on the line.
if i were to change anything it would be to see if we can expand the rink surface ... with the smaller arenas here - it basically is geared for traps and a lot of the clutching and grabbing ...
The problem has a ton to do with Fehr. Apparently Bettman was ready to start the renegotiation process last summer, and it was Fehr who decided to use the possibility of a lockout to gain leverage for the players vs owners.
It has obviously failed. Now they are scrambling.
And so you see, I have come to doubt All that I once held as true I stand alone without beliefs The only truth I know is you.
The problem has a ton to do with Fehr. Apparently Bettman was ready to start the renegotiation process last summer, and it was Fehr who decided to use the possibility of a lockout to gain leverage for the players vs owners.
It has obviously failed. Now they are scrambling.
Led by Eric Lindros, the NHLPA oustered Paul Kelly (who was on decent terms with the NHL and wanted to come up with a new deal early).
I was against contraction... But the more I think about it, the league would be great with 28 teams, 7 in each Division, 4 from each Division make the playoffs.
I dont know how the ownership is, but I would lop off Anaheim (already have LA market with a very good young exciting team), and also one of the Florida teams. If you cant fix Phoenix, allow them to move to Quebec.
Yes, please no more teams. That is NOT what this league needs.
And so you see, I have come to doubt All that I once held as true I stand alone without beliefs The only truth I know is you.
Regular season hockey today is about as exciting as soccer ... imo ... I prefer a game when a team is down 2 or 3 goals entering the 3rd period, the team down has a shot at coming backing and winning, todays game is very difficult to do that, still to much clutching and grabbing and interference ... and teams are very good at killing penalties ... rule changes I'd like to see changed ... minor penalty goes from 2 min to 3 and must serve the entire 3 minutes, any head shot 4 minutes must serve entire 4 minutes, major penalties goes from 5 to 7 minutes ... thats when hockey deteriorated was the late 80's ... and its only getting worse.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Comments
Should the players accept a Fehr-less meeting with the owners?
Jason Brough
Nov 30, 2012, 12:43 PM EST
10 Comments
AP
Yesterday, after two days of failed mediation, news broke that NHL commissioner Gary Bettman had proposed to NHLPA chief Donald Fehr that the players and owners get together without Bettman and Fehr in the room.
The idea was that the removal of the two leaders, each of which has drawn the ire of the other side (and that’s putting it lightly), would reduce the animosity at the bargaining table.
At least, that’s how the league sold it.
“We want to find a way to get to a deal,” NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly said. “Nothing else has worked. The commissioner felt that we might as well propose something different. We will see how they respond.”
For fans, the proposal was a welcome one. If that’s the way a deal gets done, do it. (And if that doesn’t work, flip a coin or have an arm wrestle. Anything to end this ridiculous lockout.)
But is it the right move for the players? After all, these are not sophisticated deal-makers; they play hockey for a living. Without Fehr, who’s going to look out for them?
Yahoo!’s Nick Cotsonikas thinks it’s a risk the players have to take.
This smells like a trap. After two sessions with U.S. federal mediators went nowhere, NHL commissioner Gary Bettman made a suggestion Thursday – a meeting between owners and players only.
It seems like a PR move. It seems like another negotiating tactic designed to go around NHL Players’ Association leadership, like when the league gave executives a secret window to explain a proposal to players. It seems like a mismatch – seasoned businessmen vs. hockey players.
But they’ve got to try, at least under certain conditions. Joining the nobles is the only hope for the season. You know what happens if they don’t take this chance?
Nothing.
Ken Campbell of The Hockey News disagrees:
Look for player-friendly owner representatives such as Mario Lemieux and John Davidson to be very prominent in these meetings if they take place. They have an enormous amount of credibility with the players and Lemieux, the NHL likely believes, has an enormous amount of sway over Sidney Crosby. And if a star such as Crosby begins to cave, then perhaps others will follow.
Which is why, from this corner, it makes very little sense for the players to allow this to happen. They hired Fehr precisely to do what he has done so far to the owners and it has been a brilliant tactic. And as far as the players have been concerned, Fehr has been the equivalent of the Pied Piper of Hamelin, constantly being flanked by grim looking superstars at every photo opportunity.
Dealing directly with owners has always represented an enormous disadvantage for the players. That’s why they have agents to negotiate their contracts for them. And that’s why they have Fehr to do their dirty work for them.
The NHLPA has yet to accept or decline the league’s offer.
If it does accept, the next step would be determining the format of the meeting, as well as who’s invited.
“It might be helpful if we can get some other owners in the room,” Pittsburgh forward Craig Adams told the Post-Gazette.
(Translation: Owners besides Jeremy Jacobs, Ted Leonsis, Murray Edwards and Craig Leipold.)
If it declines, the next step may be decertification.
That it ain't no sin to be glad you're alive
ORGAN DONATION SAVES LIVES
http://www.UNOS.org
Donate Organs and Save a Life
if any side wants to win the PR war ... agree to binding arbitration ...
That it ain't no sin to be glad you're alive
ORGAN DONATION SAVES LIVES
http://www.UNOS.org
Donate Organs and Save a Life
i don't think anything will happen until january ... the real d-day for the season ...
it's basically come down to this ... bettman has promised the owners that he can break the union and have them cave ... the nhlpa will have to prove it won't break for the owners to move ... without any immediate urgency (deadline) - it's all posturing now to see who blinks first ...
fehr has one thing going for him ... the absolute loathing the players have for bettman now ... and the reality is that he presents himself as someone who can be hated on pretty good ... so, that's where i think we are at ...
He should run for U.S. Congress.
He's a perfect fit.
Gary Bettman - US Congress 2014!
haha ... well ... he is a lawyer ... which makes me consider ... of the 4 major sports leagues ... we haven't had any work stoppages in the nfl and mlb in a long time ... both commissioned by non-lawyers ... meanwhile - the nba and nhl commissioned by lawyers have seen persistent disruptions in the game ... :problem: :think:
I think Bettman does but i think Fuhr leaves and his brother gets the job
If a deal happens with these 2 jerkoffs not in the room, then they should both be gone. What purpose do they serve if they can't help get a deal done??
http://www.npr.org/2012/12/05/166546012/talks-resume-in-nation-hockey-league-dispute
That jerk professor totally teaches at my alma mater. I beg to differ - Dallas does have a hockey culture.
kevinbeetle: "Yes. When her career washes up and her and Gavin move to Galveston, you will meet her at Hot Topic shopping for a Japanese cheerleader outfit.
Next!"
I would agree with you but the main issue that Dallas has is crappy owners
dallas is near the bottom in attendance ... maybe it's related to the owners ... not sure ... but they are piss poor in attendance ...
You know, that attendance issue began last season (or the season prior to that, can't remember). Prior to that, attendance wasn't too shabby. But yeah, last season, attendance was scary low.
kevinbeetle: "Yes. When her career washes up and her and Gavin move to Galveston, you will meet her at Hot Topic shopping for a Japanese cheerleader outfit.
Next!"
While as a flyers fan i am predisposed to not like him, i think he is doing some good work. I wonder if he ever goes up to Mario and says "hey, if it was not for me you would never have gotten that new rink and you would be in another city" if he ever said that i would cheer for him.
Once this lock-out is over Dallas along with both Florida teams and Phoenix should be gone...I know it won't happen...one can dream though.
Optimally the NHL should have no more than 24 teams ... The game would be so much better.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
the Funny thing is that I can see the NHL expand to 2 more teams.
And if I was Mario and he said that ... I'd trade his ass to Columbus after signing him to a 14 year contract with a no - trade clause. Fortunately for Mario and Pittsburgh I think Crosby respect's Mario and all the great players before him that made it possible for him to earn 10 million plus a year.
Besides Mario worked tirelessly to keep the team in Pittsburgh ... As far as I'm concerned a deal would likely be done if it wasn't for Snider and Jacobs ...
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I dont know how the ownership is, but I would lop off Anaheim (already have LA market with a very good young exciting team), and also one of the Florida teams. If you cant fix Phoenix, allow them to move to Quebec.
that's the rumor. And based on the NHL's alignment proposal last year, it seems there were 2 gaping openings.
Sure they will ... They'll get anther 500 million expansion fee ... The quality of the product will continue to get worse ... It's already a poor quality product, it'll just get worse, Bettman convinced the owners in the 90's that the European talent pool was deep ... Well it's ... Actually I believe the Canadian presence in the NHL has rise from about 48% to 53% since 2002 (if I'm not mistaken), look at the absolute rising stars in this league, they re Canadian, the last 4 cup champions comprised of 14-15 Canucks ... We can't keep expanding this league without the talent pool to support it, it's just not there.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I hope you know i was joking about Crosby saying that but it would be funny. I won't put the blame on just 2 people. to be honest, there was no pressure on both sides to get things done before. you have alot of teams that are happy not having hockey until January.
Sure they will ... They'll get anther 500 million expansion fee ... The quality of the product will continue to get worse ... It's already a poor quality product, it'll just get worse, Bettman convinced the owners in the 90's that the European talent pool was deep ... Well it's ... Actually I believe the Canadian presence in the NHL has rise from about 48% to 53% since 2002 (if I'm not mistaken), look at the absolute rising stars in this league, they re Canadian, the last 4 cup champions comprised of 14-15 Canucks ... We can't keep expanding this league without the talent pool to support it, it's just not there.[/quote]
I disagree that the product has gotten worse. I remember the late 80 and early 90s and that time hockey was at it lowest imo.
The problem is that all the players are a bit too good and too efficient at what they do. Defensive systems have been perfected and stifle offensive play. The rules arent/cant be called like they should. Goalies are just too big and take up too much space.
I also think the phasing out of the truly spirited rivalries and fighting has hurt the entertainment value. I remember going to games and the first thing i would look at is the opposing teams' roster to see what fighters they have.
I also think the fact that the players are so wealthy now, there is less motivation over an 82 game schedule. You only really see intense action when there are playoffs, or olympic medals are on the line.
It has obviously failed. Now they are scrambling.
All that I once held as true
I stand alone without beliefs
The only truth I know is you.
Led by Eric Lindros, the NHLPA oustered Paul Kelly (who was on decent terms with the NHL and wanted to come up with a new deal early).
All that I once held as true
I stand alone without beliefs
The only truth I know is you.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon