NHL lockout: Owners almost abandoned talks before cooler heads prevailed: Cox
FromDamien Cox’s Spin on Sportsblog:
-
NEW YORK—The conversation went something like this.
“Let’s leave,” said Boston Bruins owner Jeremy Jacobs, turning to NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly.
“It’s up to you,” replied Daly.
At that point during the talks between the NHL and NHL Players’ Association on Wednesday, a day that began as a continuation of the momentum generated on Tuesday, both sides were at the precipice, and the 2012-13 season was in jeopardy. Earlier, Buffalo Sabres goalie Ryan Miller had angrily vented when the owners said they were disappointed with the players’ responses to an earlier offer and threatened to pull everything off the table.
But with Jacobs poised to abandon the talks, other owners spoke up, and then both sides dramatically backed away from the precipice. When talks ended close to 1 a.m. Thursday morning after more than eight hours of talks without NHL commissioner Gary Bettman and union executive director Don Fehr, it certainly seemed from the outside they were getting closer and closer to a deal to end this ugly lockout.
“We had a series of candid discussions,” said player rep Ron Hainsey, summing up the union’s position before announcing the two sides would continue talks later on Thursday afternoon.
Larry Tanenbaum, chairman of Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment, said simply: “We are still talking.”
How close are they heading into a third day of bargaining? Well, according to a report by Sportsnet.ca writer Michael Grange, the league has raised the amount of “make whole” money it is will to throw in the pot to $300 million from $211 million, essentially meeting the players halfway as the two sides try to develop a formula that will transition both to a 50-50 split on revenue.
The six owners in the meeting agreed to accept the NHLPA’s position to keep rules on free agency and arbitration rights the same as they were in the old CBA. The league remained steadfast on a five-year contract limit with no more than a 5 per cent variance in any year, but did suggest a free agent re-signing with his old team could sign for as long as seven years.
Also, the owners want a 10-year collective bargaining agreement, according to the Sportsnet.ca report. The players want a much shorter term.
“There are critical open issues between the two parties,” said Daly after the meetings ended.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
They just had the Flyer's Scotty Hartnell on the radio and there was talk that the players in Europe received a text telling them to be prepared to return at a moment's notice. What that means, I don't know. He's in Philly and the team knows that so maybe that's why he did not get a text like that.
i'm not sure why the players wouldn't want a longer deal ... the reality is whenever the next deal expires - they will have to give again so you might as well get the best deal this go around for as long as possible ...
i'm not sure why the players wouldn't want a longer deal ... the reality is whenever the next deal expires - they will have to give again so you might as well get the best deal this go around for as long as possible ...
I agree ... I still would not be surprised if talks break off.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
i'm not sure why the players wouldn't want a longer deal ... the reality is whenever the next deal expires - they will have to give again so you might as well get the best deal this go around for as long as possible ...
I would think the players would be the ones pushing for longer length. The last 2 deal have been way in their favor towards the end and they would want it to continue.
TSN is speculating if they don't get a deal done with these talks then it might not look good for the season. Thursday is a big day ... Probably no face to face meetings till the afternoon. If they get a deal done in the next 7-10 days where looking at a 55-58 game season. Two real contentious issues are ... The owners are steadfast on 5 year length of contracts and 7 for your own free agents and the owners want a 10 year deal.
Ron Burkle is apparently the reason they are still negotiating.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
@TSNBobMcKenzie I can tell you there's a hugely negative vibe emanating from both sides right now.
Sigh. :fp:
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I doubt the owners much care until January ... most don't make money till playoffs anyways. The player are being hurt more by this lockout than the owners.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
As someone who has watched hockey for over 30 years I'm not even sure I care anymore. At the beginning of the season I missed it, but not really anymore now. When it comes back maybe my mind will change. I guess only time will tell.
If the NHl care about those teams then they would get rid of the cap and the cap floor cause that is really what is killing these teams.
Thats the best thing about the last lock - out is the salary cap. There hasn't been a repeat cup champion since. All 16 playoff teams have a decent shot at the ... just ask Boston and LA.
Baseball doesn't necessarily need a cap ... each team plays 81 home in massive stadiums ... the Detroit Tigers drew 17000 when first moving to comerica park and they were bad at the the time and thats over 81 games, plus baseball has better TV revenue, better merchandising.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
As someone who has watched hockey for over 30 years I'm not even sure I care anymore. At the beginning of the season I missed it, but not really anymore now. When it comes back maybe my mind will change. I guess only time will tell.
i've only watched the playoffs since the last lockout ... might not even watch that in the future. its just greedy billionaires vs greedy millionaires.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
it sux. it appears there is a strong voiced hard-headed contingent on both sides who dont want to appear that they "lost".
i really don't see the factions on the players side ... i think they are fairly united ... the same can't be said about the owners ...
I dont think that is true at all. You have what, 700 players? All with varying salaries, Nationalities, age/earnings remaining, skill level/security, etc.
There are definitely large-ish groups on each side who want to just meet in the G/D middle and play.
You also hear stuff like: @JSportsnet: Can confirm NHLPA is insisting that Don Fehr return to the Negotiations...and if that's the case the Commissioner will be on other side.
If the NHl care about those teams then they would get rid of the cap and the cap floor cause that is really what is killing these teams.
Thats the best thing about the last lock - out is the salary cap. There hasn't been a repeat cup champion since. All 16 playoff teams have a decent shot at the ... just ask Boston and LA.
I think its big for the smaller markets. The floor was a bit high (but that was for the players), and they also calculated it on the mean and not the median, so the teams making a ton of money are weighted.
I dont want to see 5-6 teams suck up the star players from the rest of the league, which was occurring pre-2004. Although high payroll/star studded roster doesnt guarantee success, you need star-power on all teams to sell the league.
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If the NHl care about those teams then they would get rid of the cap and the cap floor cause that is really what is killing these teams.
Thats the best thing about the last lock - out is the salary cap. There hasn't been a repeat cup champion since. All 16 playoff teams have a decent shot at the ... just ask Boston and LA.
I think its big for the smaller markets. The floor was a bit high (but that was for the players), and they also calculated it on the mean and not the median, so the teams making a ton of money are weighted.
I dont want to see 5-6 teams suck up the star players from the rest of the league, which was occurring pre-2004. Although high payroll/star studded roster doesnt guarantee success, you need star-power on all teams to sell the league.
Thats what was happening before ... same 5-6 teams were always getting the best free agents.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
it sux. it appears there is a strong voiced hard-headed contingent on both sides who dont want to appear that they "lost".
i really don't see the factions on the players side ... i think they are fairly united ... the same can't be said about the owners ...
I dont think that is true at all. You have what, 700 players? All with varying salaries, Nationalities, age/earnings remaining, skill level/security, etc.
There are definitely large-ish groups on each side who want to just meet in the G/D middle and play.
You also hear stuff like: @JSportsnet: Can confirm NHLPA is insisting that Don Fehr return to the Negotiations...and if that's the case the Commissioner will be on other side.
truthfully I was/am skeptical with these talks mainly because Jacobs is involved ... he's one of the hardline owners.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I guarantee you both sides are not happy about all of the social media outlets yesterday pumping up the fans into thinking a deal was going to get done.
Post edited by Dr. Delight on
And so you see, I have come to doubt All that I once held as true I stand alone without beliefs The only truth I know is you.
I guarantee you both sides are not happy about all of the social media outlets yesterday pumping up the fand into thinking a deal was going to get done.
As a fan, I'm certainly not happy about getting my hopes up.
drivingrl: "Will I ever get to meet Gwen Stefani?"
kevinbeetle: "Yes. When her career washes up and her and Gavin move to Galveston, you will meet her at Hot Topic shopping for a Japanese cheerleader outfit.
As someone who has watched hockey for over 30 years I'm not even sure I care anymore. At the beginning of the season I missed it, but not really anymore now. When it comes back maybe my mind will change. I guess only time will tell.
Yep. Thats where I am at. I've been conditioned by this league.
Sadly they care more about getting 10 yr old Timmy in California to become a fan instead of keeping a hardcore fan around who has stayed with the league.
You can only see so many work stoppages and decreased entertainment product until your just disgusted.
And so you see, I have come to doubt All that I once held as true I stand alone without beliefs The only truth I know is you.
I dont think that is true at all. You have what, 700 players? All with varying salaries, Nationalities, age/earnings remaining, skill level/security, etc.
There are definitely large-ish groups on each side who want to just meet in the G/D middle and play.
You also hear stuff like: @JSportsnet: Can confirm NHLPA is insisting that Don Fehr return to the Negotiations...and if that's the case the Commissioner will be on other side.
sure ... obviously with a larger pool of people - interests are likely to vary but what i'm trying to say is that i don't think there is like 65% who want to make a deal and concede everything and 35% preventing them that ... i think there is more of a unified consensus amongst the players relatively speaking vs. the owners ...
this may just be the NHLPA leaking negative vibes trying for one more NHL Concession. Try to get them to budge a little more, then do the deal.
The more I think about it, the more I love the 5 years contract max and 7 years for re-signing.
It may encourage players sticking with their teams.
Maybe itll also encourage 'sign and trades'. come to think of it, maybe they should close the loop-hole on that. Or, maybe itll be cool
I like the shorter contracts, but the owners kind of shot themselves in the foot by signing these deals...
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this may just be the NHLPA leaking negative vibes trying for one more NHL Concession. Try to get them to budge a little more, then do the deal.
The more I think about it, the more I love the 5 years contract max and 7 years for re-signing.
It may encourage players sticking with their teams.
Maybe itll also encourage 'sign and trades'. come to think of it, maybe they should close the loop-hole on that. Or, maybe itll be cool
I like the shorter contracts, but the owners kind of shot themselves in the foot by signing these deals...
Its competition though. There isnt much choice, or its collusion. With the cap, there are more teams bidding on players, which drives the terms and dollars up. The agents play offers off one another and they grow dollar-wise, term-wise, and then perks like no-trade/no-movement. Framework of the CBA needs to control that, it is illegal for owners to have a gentleman's agreement.
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Comments
NHL lockout: Owners almost abandoned talks before cooler heads prevailed: Cox
FromDamien Cox’s Spin on Sportsblog:
-
NEW YORK—The conversation went something like this.
“Let’s leave,” said Boston Bruins owner Jeremy Jacobs, turning to NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly.
“It’s up to you,” replied Daly.
At that point during the talks between the NHL and NHL Players’ Association on Wednesday, a day that began as a continuation of the momentum generated on Tuesday, both sides were at the precipice, and the 2012-13 season was in jeopardy. Earlier, Buffalo Sabres goalie Ryan Miller had angrily vented when the owners said they were disappointed with the players’ responses to an earlier offer and threatened to pull everything off the table.
But with Jacobs poised to abandon the talks, other owners spoke up, and then both sides dramatically backed away from the precipice. When talks ended close to 1 a.m. Thursday morning after more than eight hours of talks without NHL commissioner Gary Bettman and union executive director Don Fehr, it certainly seemed from the outside they were getting closer and closer to a deal to end this ugly lockout.
“We had a series of candid discussions,” said player rep Ron Hainsey, summing up the union’s position before announcing the two sides would continue talks later on Thursday afternoon.
Larry Tanenbaum, chairman of Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment, said simply: “We are still talking.”
How close are they heading into a third day of bargaining? Well, according to a report by Sportsnet.ca writer Michael Grange, the league has raised the amount of “make whole” money it is will to throw in the pot to $300 million from $211 million, essentially meeting the players halfway as the two sides try to develop a formula that will transition both to a 50-50 split on revenue.
The six owners in the meeting agreed to accept the NHLPA’s position to keep rules on free agency and arbitration rights the same as they were in the old CBA. The league remained steadfast on a five-year contract limit with no more than a 5 per cent variance in any year, but did suggest a free agent re-signing with his old team could sign for as long as seven years.
Also, the owners want a 10-year collective bargaining agreement, according to the Sportsnet.ca report. The players want a much shorter term.
“There are critical open issues between the two parties,” said Daly after the meetings ended.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I agree ... I still would not be surprised if talks break off.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I would think the players would be the ones pushing for longer length. The last 2 deal have been way in their favor towards the end and they would want it to continue.
Ron Burkle is apparently the reason they are still negotiating.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
of course there is ... fehr and bettman are back in the negotiations ...
as long as the hardliners continue to dictate - a deal is near impossible ...
Sigh. :fp:
kevinbeetle: "Yes. When her career washes up and her and Gavin move to Galveston, you will meet her at Hot Topic shopping for a Japanese cheerleader outfit.
Next!"
before its too late.!
That it ain't no sin to be glad you're alive
ORGAN DONATION SAVES LIVES
http://www.UNOS.org
Donate Organs and Save a Life
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
i really don't see the factions on the players side ... i think they are fairly united ... the same can't be said about the owners ...
Thats the best thing about the last lock - out is the salary cap. There hasn't been a repeat cup champion since. All 16 playoff teams have a decent shot at the ... just ask Boston and LA.
Baseball doesn't necessarily need a cap ... each team plays 81 home in massive stadiums ... the Detroit Tigers drew 17000 when first moving to comerica park and they were bad at the the time and thats over 81 games, plus baseball has better TV revenue, better merchandising.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
i've only watched the playoffs since the last lockout ... might not even watch that in the future. its just greedy billionaires vs greedy millionaires.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I dont think that is true at all. You have what, 700 players? All with varying salaries, Nationalities, age/earnings remaining, skill level/security, etc.
There are definitely large-ish groups on each side who want to just meet in the G/D middle and play.
You also hear stuff like: @JSportsnet: Can confirm NHLPA is insisting that Don Fehr return to the Negotiations...and if that's the case the Commissioner will be on other side.
I think its big for the smaller markets. The floor was a bit high (but that was for the players), and they also calculated it on the mean and not the median, so the teams making a ton of money are weighted.
I dont want to see 5-6 teams suck up the star players from the rest of the league, which was occurring pre-2004. Although high payroll/star studded roster doesnt guarantee success, you need star-power on all teams to sell the league.
Thats what was happening before ... same 5-6 teams were always getting the best free agents.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
truthfully I was/am skeptical with these talks mainly because Jacobs is involved ... he's one of the hardline owners.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
All that I once held as true
I stand alone without beliefs
The only truth I know is you.
As a fan, I'm certainly not happy about getting my hopes up.
kevinbeetle: "Yes. When her career washes up and her and Gavin move to Galveston, you will meet her at Hot Topic shopping for a Japanese cheerleader outfit.
Next!"
Sadly they care more about getting 10 yr old Timmy in California to become a fan instead of keeping a hardcore fan around who has stayed with the league.
You can only see so many work stoppages and decreased entertainment product until your just disgusted.
All that I once held as true
I stand alone without beliefs
The only truth I know is you.
sure ... obviously with a larger pool of people - interests are likely to vary but what i'm trying to say is that i don't think there is like 65% who want to make a deal and concede everything and 35% preventing them that ... i think there is more of a unified consensus amongst the players relatively speaking vs. the owners ...
The more I think about it, the more I love the 5 years contract max and 7 years for re-signing.
It may encourage players sticking with their teams.
Maybe itll also encourage 'sign and trades'. come to think of it, maybe they should close the loop-hole on that. Or, maybe itll be cool
Its competition though. There isnt much choice, or its collusion. With the cap, there are more teams bidding on players, which drives the terms and dollars up. The agents play offers off one another and they grow dollar-wise, term-wise, and then perks like no-trade/no-movement. Framework of the CBA needs to control that, it is illegal for owners to have a gentleman's agreement.
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