I hpe these guys get together. As someone who doesn't watch college football or basketball, sports right now are limited to the NFL and the rest of the week just blows for me.
The amazing thing about talking to NHL pensioners about the way in which their interests are not being represented at the table in current CBA as described in the Star today is that none really have much negative to say about today’s owners or players.
Milt Schmidt, who is in limbo along with hundreds of former players about important Senior Benefits that require a new agreement between the NHL and NHLPA, says he’s “grateful” for the decision in 2005 that gave players those benefits and doesn’t resent modern-day players for the money they make.
“More power to ’em!” says Schmidt, a member of Boston’s famed Kraut Line along with Bobby Bauer and Woody Dumart.
“I can thank the good game of hockey for everything I have.”
None express bitterness over the fact that current players — Erik Cole is the latest example — talk in grand, vague terms about fighting for the rights of future players, but don’t seem to have the same regard for the rights and needs of players who skated in the NHL in the 1940s, 1950s and 1960s.
Bob Nevin was one of six players in the Montreal hotel room back in 1967 when the NHLPA was first recognized by NHL owners.
“That union was hard fought for,” he says. “But it ended up doing not as much as what we hoped for.”
Nevin’s pension for playing 1,128 NHL games is $8,500 a year.
“I remember Clarence Campbell saying we had the best pension in sports,” says Nevin. “I’ll remember that until the day I die. What was he talking about?”
At issue today is the monies owed players 65 and older as part of the Senior Benefit Plan established in 2005 by a letter agreement accompanying that year’s collective bargaining agreement. The Senior Benefit is funded by $2 million annually from the NHLPA matched by the NHL. It is not legally part of their pensions nor part of the actual CBA, but it expired when the old CBA did.
Ex-players over the age of 65, or their surviving widows, receive $1,380 for every season played. Current NHL Alumni executive director Mark Napier is hoping to have the pool of money increased. Ex-players are owed their next payment in January, but without a new CBA, they may not get it.
Ex-Leaf Danny Lewicki says he hopes that today’s players understand why they should support older players.
“I hope they realize what players went through for the love of the game,” he says. “It wasn’t for money, I can tell you that.”
Lewicki remembers making his highest salary of $12,500 while with the New York Rangers, and then approaching GM Muzz Patrick for a $2,000 raise after a good season.
“Muzz threw me out of his office,” says Lewicki.
Lewicki said he was pleased when the NHL and NHLPA agreed seven years ago to start jointly funding the Senior Benefit Plan, which expired when the current CBA expired Sept. 15.
“I was gratified, but surprised. Very surprised,” he said.
Wally Stanowski, 93, says he used to “hate” the Leafs because of the “cheap” way in which the club dealt with its former players. He said he was approached by Ken Dryden to attend the closing of Maple Leaf Gardens, but he was in Mexico at the time and the offer quickly disappeared because he would have needed to have his flight expenses covered.
Stanowski said current Leaf GM Brian Burke has softened his view. He said when he was invited to drop the puck at a Leaf game two years ago, Burke gave him 12 tickets for his family and sent a chauffered car to pick him up.
“Burke changed my mind,” said Stanowski.
Stanowski won a Memorial Cup in 1938 with the St. Boniface Seals, a team that had only 10 players and a budget of $800 to cover TWO seasons.
Stanowski, who played for the Leafs between 1939 and 1948, said the most he made with the Leafs was $5,000 in a season, out of which $900 was deducted for his pension and was supposed to be matched by the owners.
“But no team ever did it,” he says. “They just washed their hands of it.”
Schmidt, by the way, had a message for Stanowski when he heard that I was interviewing both for today’s story.
“One night Bill Barilko hit me so hard that I did a complete somersault,” said Schmidt. “I landed on top of Stanowski. So thank him for the soft landing, will you?”
Stanowski is a huge baseball fan, but says he rarely watches today’s hockey.
“I think it’s terrible,” he said. “They keep shooting the puck in and going after it. What happened to possession?”
Dallas Smith, 71, says he worries that if the Senior Benefit Plan isn’t renewed, that the Emergency Players Fund that helps players in desperate need might also be lost.
He cites the experience of the late Fern Flaman, who suffered from cancer at the same time his wife was dealing with dementia.
“He needed help,” says Smith. “He got some, but not as much as he needed.”
Like most, he doesn’t really pick sides in the current lockout, although he says in his day he had to “fight for every nickle” he could get in salary.
“I don’t really blame the owners,” he says. “But I hope to God something happens with our benefits. I don’t think that (Donald) Fehr cares.”
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
sooo ... let's say the deal does not get done ... season is lost ...
and let's say neither the owners or the nhlpa cave to a point where a deal gets reached ...
i suppose the nhl can restart up and see which players are willing to cross - i suspect a lot of them ... what will the other players do? ... play in the KHL? ... seems like players will have little leverage which ultimately is what i think the owners think ...
This is what I think is the 'end game'/apocolypse. I think the NHL will set its own CBA parameters and say that it isnt working with the NHLPA and whoever wants to come and play, sign... Like you, I believe many players in the NHLPA will be tripping over themselves getting back. They know this and that is why it will never get to that point. The KHL isnt really a good option, mainly for NA players. There are a lot of garbage outfits in that league, and games are over something like 12 time zones. Plus they will make less than the NHL.
Logistically Im not sure how they would stock teams fairly. Maybe open a window for 700 players to declare they want to play in the NHL, then anyone not under contract enters a big draft?
The NHLPA has no ability to start anything up on their own. They couldnt get the investors or infrastructure and I think the public is ultimately more loyal to the crests than these players (who are killing their image through twitter). Maybe 20 years ago it was possible, but now it would require too much money. Even if they could, they would be taking all the risk, and probably not come close to the $ they will get even with the NHLs first garbage offer over the Summer.
The owners have money coming in now. Players do not and are about to miss the 4th of their 13 checks this year in what is a very small career earnings window. The owners can wait and wait. The players have had the wrong strategy the entire time, trying to draw a line and wait. They needed to either bargain ahead of time in order to not lose any time and get the best deal possible, or create a complete PR nightmare for the NHL side (which they have done the opposite).
As long as they denied Gretzky rookie of the year because he played in a competing league all other players should be denied rookie of the year...that's just personal feelings...probably not what will happen in reality. Lets face it the NHL treats European players with kid gloves...if Eberle and Hopkins can play in the AHL then so should Yakupov...it'd be a lot easier for the Oilers to keep a watchful eye on his progress and for him to adapt to the system the Oilers want to play...personally I would have selected Murray and let someone else have Yakapov...unless he's another Pavel Datsyuk...I wouldn't trust him...too me he's already showing signs of selfishness.
I dunno. I would have picked Murray just due to the glut of young forwards they already have.... and Murray seems like a cant-miss as well.
However, Im really impressed with Yakupov. All indications show that he is a workhorse and is completely devoted to being an NHL Superstar. I know there are always (justly so) skepticism on Russian players, but I really believe Yakupov is pretty legit.
It looks like Roman Hamrlik is the first player to be fed up with Fehr.
Spec on CBA: Players are losing, and they know it
The owners are winning the way they always win, by out waiting the players, and simply saying "No."
And the players, whose frustration becomes more evident tweet by tweet, are making their way down that inevitable road to defeat.
Finally, outright dissention arrived right on schedule Wednesday, as veteran defenceman Roman Hamrlik called out union head Donald Fehr on the Czech web site iSport.cz.
"I am disgusted," Hamrlik told the web site. "We have to push Fehr to the wall to get the deal. Time is against us.
"We lost 1/4 season, it is $425 million. Who will give it back to us? Mr. Fehr? There should be voting between players. Four questions -- YES or NO -- then count it. If half of players say let's play, then they should sign new CBA.
"If there is no season he should leave and we will find someone new. Time is our enemy."
Yes, as if on cue, the war drums officially sounded in the jungle beyond Fehr's office on Nov. 21. And if former players like Bill Guerin and Mike Modano were talking to the media these days, they would echo exactly what former NHLer Chris Therien tweeted the other day, when the old defenceman said that he would have some serious questions for Fehr if Therien were still playing today.
"Because quite frankly I'm not in the mood to fight the good fight for some kid 10 years from now," Therien, now a Flyers radio analyst, tweeted. "I'm all about union solidarity and staying with it. But what happens when its 4th and a mile and your punter just broke his leg?
"I'm not saying Don Fehr doesn't have a plan B, but if I'm a player again now, I'm calling on that 'always available' line to find it out (what it is)."
"Don't try and fight the players," that tired old jingle used to go, "because they're used to having each other's backs in a battle."
Really? Ask Bob Goodenow how that one worked out for him. Or Ted Saskin.
Or Brendan Shanahan. Or Trevor Linden. Or Paul Kelly…
The reality is, when the money begins to run out, so does the solidarity. That's why the top earners in the prime of their careers -- guys like Jonathan Toews and Sidney Crosby -- aren't likely to crack.
But the "replaceables" like Brandon Prust, or players nearing the finish line like Hamrlik -- one of just 14 players to have experienced three lockouts in their career -- don't have the patience to out-wait the owners.
Seriously, we learned a few things from the last lockout, and those lessons are all beginning to play out once again:
• This is all about money, and each individual owner has a lot more money -- and several more revenue streams -- than each player does. So the players grow frustrated as now three, and soon four of their 13 pay periods pass them by in a short career, after which most of them are unclear about their earnings.
"I don't know where you go from here," Martin St. Louis told the Tampa Times. "It's very frustrating."
• The owners will come out of this with a better economy -- likely at a 50-50 split starting immediately -- thereby, tangible profits from the lockout exist for them. Theoretically, each owner can do the math on exactly when he will recover every dollar from this lockout (damage to the game, excluded) under a more profitable system.
Conversely, every dollar lost by a player is a dollar lost forever. The players know this, and as the checks pass them by they're beginning to see what they saw last time: an adversary that knows it will win, and is fine with sacrificing a season in the process.
Fehr has these players convinced that they are making serious concessions, even though the NHLPA's proposal would likely see them making better than 52 per cent of league revenues for the life of the CBA.
Players accustomed to hearing "Yes!" from NHL general managers are now hearing "No," from the owners. The economy suggests that they give back for the second straight CBA, and Fehr is doing his damnedest to make sure the loss is so incremental in each year of the deal, that players barely even feel the pain.
"We'll get to 50-50," he says, "but only after five years."
The league counters with: "You'll get to 50-50 right now, and we'll 'make whole' those contracts the best we can."
That is why the last two NHLPA proposals were dismissed by the owners at warp speed; because they ignore the basic premise that we've all known to be true since this thing started:
The owners are going to get their way, and the players are not.
"We are willing. They are not," tweeted St. Louis defenceman Kevin Shattenkirk.
If by "willing" he means, willing to give even more before this lockout is over, then we wholeheartedly agree.
As long as they denied Gretzky rookie of the year because he played in a competing league all other players should be denied rookie of the year...that's just personal feelings...probably not what will happen in reality. Lets face it the NHL treats European players with kid gloves...if Eberle and Hopkins can play in the AHL then so should Yakupov...it'd be a lot easier for the Oilers to keep a watchful eye on his progress and for him to adapt to the system the Oilers want to play...personally I would have selected Murray and let someone else have Yakapov...unless he's another Pavel Datsyuk...I wouldn't trust him...too me he's already showing signs of selfishness.
I dunno. I would have picked Murray just due to the glut of young forwards they already have.... and Murray seems like a cant-miss as well.
However, Im really impressed with Yakupov. All indications show that he is a workhorse and is completely devoted to being an NHL Superstar. I know there are always (justly so) skepticism on Russian players, but I really believe Yakupov is pretty legit.
I'll say this I never bought into the Ovechkin hype...I heard from numerous people, read numerous stories that he was far superior to Crosby...well now who's the better player...should be no doubt that Crosby is by far the better player.
If Yakupov had went to the AHL or back to his junior team (which I believe was his only option) then he would have impressed me ... for 2 reasons, 1. would have allowed the Oilers to keep a much more watchful eye on his progress, plus the Sarnia Sting would have worked with Oilers developing him into a much stronger NHL player, 2. the chance to help your junior team win a memorial cup or even take a run at.
But in the Oilers case ... I think Murray would have been a better choice ... I'm still not convinced their all that close to competing ... they have many holes to fill ... drafting Murray would have been a big hole filled.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
It looks like Roman Hamrlik is the first player to be fed up with Fehr.
Spec on CBA: Players are losing, and they know it
The owners are winning the way they always win, by out waiting the players, and simply saying "No."
And the players, whose frustration becomes more evident tweet by tweet, are making their way down that inevitable road to defeat.
Finally, outright dissention arrived right on schedule Wednesday, as veteran defenceman Roman Hamrlik called out union head Donald Fehr on the Czech web site iSport.cz.
"I am disgusted," Hamrlik told the web site. "We have to push Fehr to the wall to get the deal. Time is against us.
"We lost 1/4 season, it is $425 million. Who will give it back to us? Mr. Fehr? There should be voting between players. Four questions -- YES or NO -- then count it. If half of players say let's play, then they should sign new CBA.
"If there is no season he should leave and we will find someone new. Time is our enemy."
Yes, as if on cue, the war drums officially sounded in the jungle beyond Fehr's office on Nov. 21. And if former players like Bill Guerin and Mike Modano were talking to the media these days, they would echo exactly what former NHLer Chris Therien tweeted the other day, when the old defenceman said that he would have some serious questions for Fehr if Therien were still playing today.
"Because quite frankly I'm not in the mood to fight the good fight for some kid 10 years from now," Therien, now a Flyers radio analyst, tweeted. "I'm all about union solidarity and staying with it. But what happens when its 4th and a mile and your punter just broke his leg?
"I'm not saying Don Fehr doesn't have a plan B, but if I'm a player again now, I'm calling on that 'always available' line to find it out (what it is)."
"Don't try and fight the players," that tired old jingle used to go, "because they're used to having each other's backs in a battle."
Really? Ask Bob Goodenow how that one worked out for him. Or Ted Saskin.
Or Brendan Shanahan. Or Trevor Linden. Or Paul Kelly…
The reality is, when the money begins to run out, so does the solidarity. That's why the top earners in the prime of their careers -- guys like Jonathan Toews and Sidney Crosby -- aren't likely to crack.
But the "replaceables" like Brandon Prust, or players nearing the finish line like Hamrlik -- one of just 14 players to have experienced three lockouts in their career -- don't have the patience to out-wait the owners.
Seriously, we learned a few things from the last lockout, and those lessons are all beginning to play out once again:
• This is all about money, and each individual owner has a lot more money -- and several more revenue streams -- than each player does. So the players grow frustrated as now three, and soon four of their 13 pay periods pass them by in a short career, after which most of them are unclear about their earnings.
"I don't know where you go from here," Martin St. Louis told the Tampa Times. "It's very frustrating."
• The owners will come out of this with a better economy -- likely at a 50-50 split starting immediately -- thereby, tangible profits from the lockout exist for them. Theoretically, each owner can do the math on exactly when he will recover every dollar from this lockout (damage to the game, excluded) under a more profitable system.
Conversely, every dollar lost by a player is a dollar lost forever. The players know this, and as the checks pass them by they're beginning to see what they saw last time: an adversary that knows it will win, and is fine with sacrificing a season in the process.
Fehr has these players convinced that they are making serious concessions, even though the NHLPA's proposal would likely see them making better than 52 per cent of league revenues for the life of the CBA.
Players accustomed to hearing "Yes!" from NHL general managers are now hearing "No," from the owners. The economy suggests that they give back for the second straight CBA, and Fehr is doing his damnedest to make sure the loss is so incremental in each year of the deal, that players barely even feel the pain.
"We'll get to 50-50," he says, "but only after five years."
The league counters with: "You'll get to 50-50 right now, and we'll 'make whole' those contracts the best we can."
That is why the last two NHLPA proposals were dismissed by the owners at warp speed; because they ignore the basic premise that we've all known to be true since this thing started:
The owners are going to get their way, and the players are not.
"We are willing. They are not," tweeted St. Louis defenceman Kevin Shattenkirk.
If by "willing" he means, willing to give even more before this lockout is over, then we wholeheartedly agree.
yeah, from the beginning it has been a disaster with these guys and their twitter accounts. They should have definitely had a gag-order on any lockout matters. It has hurt their PR and now has hurt their negotiating stance.
sooo ... let's say the deal does not get done ... season is lost ...
and let's say neither the owners or the nhlpa cave to a point where a deal gets reached ...
i suppose the nhl can restart up and see which players are willing to cross - i suspect a lot of them ... what will the other players do? ... play in the KHL? ... seems like players will have little leverage which ultimately is what i think the owners think ...
I doubt the KHL is good alternative long term ... lots of problems with KHL ... most rinks are shoddy soviet era, air travel is suspect, 30 million salary cap ... life is pretty good in the NHL ...too bad these millionaires don't want to admit that ... 5 star hotels, first class chartered air, most teams play in top notch facilities and all players earn 6 figure salaries and many earn 7 figure salaries ... and most have never held a real job in their life other than part - time jobs ... sympathize with them I will not. I'll save my sympathy for the people that would like to take their kids to the game but can not afford to do so.
I still believe they will plat just not till after christmas.
I understand your frustration but do you really think that it is the players fault for ticket prices? The real reason that NHL players have never had to hold a real job is because if you want to play in the NHL you need to commit to playing it full time. what other pro league has 18 years old playing?
yeah, the market controls ticket prices. If 18,000 people are willing to pay X-amount to get in, thats the price. As long as people are willing to pay, the prices are not going down.
Even if players made $75 a game, the prices would still be put at a point to maximize profits.
sooo ... let's say the deal does not get done ... season is lost ...
and let's say neither the owners or the nhlpa cave to a point where a deal gets reached ...
i suppose the nhl can restart up and see which players are willing to cross - i suspect a lot of them ... what will the other players do? ... play in the KHL? ... seems like players will have little leverage which ultimately is what i think the owners think ...
I doubt the KHL is good alternative long term ... lots of problems with KHL ... most rinks are shoddy soviet era, air travel is suspect, 30 million salary cap ... life is pretty good in the NHL ...too bad these millionaires don't want to admit that ... 5 star hotels, first class chartered air, most teams play in top notch facilities and all players earn 6 figure salaries and many earn 7 figure salaries ... and most have never held a real job in their life other than part - time jobs ... sympathize with them I will not. I'll save my sympathy for the people that would like to take their kids to the game but can not afford to do so.
I still believe they will plat just not till after christmas.
I understand your frustration but do you really think that it is the players fault for ticket prices? The real reason that NHL players have never had to hold a real job is because if you want to play in the NHL you need to commit to playing it full time. what other pro league has 18 years old playing?
I think I will explain myself better ... I have yet to hear either side say that they need to control cost so it's affordable for the average fan ... These guys could care a less about fans ... All they see is $$$$ ...
They all make far more than there worth and that's not just hockey, that's all athlete's ... IMO.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Done with the NHL I walked away from baseball with no problem. Me and the wife will drive down to Cincy and watch the ECHL team there. Wheeling WV is also an option. Tickets are half the cost.
I've absolutley had it with the NHL. Four fucking lockouts is enough. I'm not going to burn or throw away any of my Sabres stuff but I'm not spending one more dime on the NHL. These fuckers are a bunch of assholes and I have had it with this league. If this continues the league will fold anyway.
sooo ... let's say the deal does not get done ... season is lost ...
and let's say neither the owners or the nhlpa cave to a point where a deal gets reached ...
i suppose the nhl can restart up and see which players are willing to cross - i suspect a lot of them ... what will the other players do? ... play in the KHL? ... seems like players will have little leverage which ultimately is what i think the owners think ...
I doubt the KHL is good alternative long term ... lots of problems with KHL ... most rinks are shoddy soviet era, air travel is suspect, 30 million salary cap ... life is pretty good in the NHL ...too bad these millionaires don't want to admit that ... 5 star hotels, first class chartered air, most teams play in top notch facilities and all players earn 6 figure salaries and many earn 7 figure salaries ... and most have never held a real job in their life other than part - time jobs ... sympathize with them I will not. I'll save my sympathy for the people that would like to take their kids to the game but can not afford to do so.
I still believe they will plat just not till after christmas.[/quote]
I understand your frustration but do you really think that it is the players fault for ticket prices? The real reason that NHL players have never had to hold a real job is because if you want to play in the NHL you need to commit to playing it full time. what other pro league has 18 years old playing?[/quote]
I think I will explain myself better ... I have yet to hear either side say that they need to control cost so it's affordable for the average fan ... These guys could care a less about fans ... All they see is $$$$ ...
They all make far more than there worth and that's not just hockey, that's all athlete's ... IMO.[/quote]
I remember during the last lockout, Bettman talked about how prices will drop if they got what they needed but the reality is that the NHL really doesn't care about it's fan. Of course you can also say that no pro league really cares about it fans.
I disagree about the all athlete part. They get paid whatever the owners think they are worth. We here can say that how dare athlete complain about their money when some many people don't get paid as much as them but to be honest, I think NHL players do alot of good for their cities that they play for.
i guess it'll depend on what the players are willing to do to get a "fair" deal ... i think it would have been a good PR move to have every CBA offer voted on by the players ... even tho bettman only needs 8 owners to support him ...
i guess it'll depend on what the players are willing to do to get a "fair" deal ... i think it would have been a good PR move to have every CBA offer voted on by the players ... even tho bettman only needs 8 owners to support him ...
while I can see your point, if I am a superstar and have say 12 years left in my career I don't know if I would want a person who might have 2 year left in their career deciding my future. its a fine balance.
I for one and upset that we don't hear alot about how Betmann only really needs 7 owners to support him. the reason it is 7 is due to the fact that the NHL owes 1 team already.
while I can see your point, if I am a superstar and have say 12 years left in my career I don't know if I would want a person who might have 2 year left in their career deciding my future. its a fine balance.
I for one and upset that we don't hear alot about how Betmann only really needs 7 owners to support him. the reason it is 7 is due to the fact that the NHL owes 1 team already.
i hear ya ... i would think it's reverse ... i mean the 2 year guy could just accept all conditions and get paid ... but if you're the 12 year guy and a) you've lost your ability to determine where you can play and b) the market may or may not dictate your salary ... and that you lose this and lose that ... it will have a larger impact ...
something else to consider is if this goes beyond this season ... will the nhl be able to hire replacement players if it is indeed a lockout as opposed to a strike?
Neuvirth: Lockout "Is About Several Superstars With Big Contracts"
The Caps netminder expressly comes to the defense of one teammate... while implicitly throwing another under the bus.
A day after Roman Hamrlik expressed his frustration with both the state of affairs on the labor front and his union's leadership, Michal Neuvirth came to his Caps teammate and fellow countryman's defense. Per TSN:
"I agree 100 percent with Hammer," Neuvirth told TVA Nova Sport in the Czech Republic. "This lockout is not about majority of players, I think. It is about several superstars with big contracts."
So... is Neuvirth/Ovechkin now more or less awkward than Neuvirth/Holtby?
For his part, Hamrlik clarified his comments a bit in an interview with TSN:
"I've been in the league for 20 years and faced three lockouts," Hamrlik told TSN's That's Hockey on Wednesday. "There's only 14 other players in the league that are facing their third career lockout. I believe I've earned the right to say what I think."
"Someone thinks I'm selfish - I might be," Hamrlik told TSN. "But it's selfish to play hockey. I still want to play with the Capitals or at least have the chance to win and go as far as I can. I think time is against us and we need to find a solution. I think that it's a fight between two groups that have too much pride. We need to find an agreement - I still support Fehr, but we as players we need to push him a little bit more and get the best deal possible."
...
"I'm just disappointed - I know it's a really tough business, it's not just me losing money. Everybody's losing money - the sooner we figure it out, the better for everybody."
really ... at this stage ... the only real pressure would be from sponsors ... if there is a feeling that there is not going to be a season ... those dollars are going to have to go somewhere else ...
Another NHL lockout casualty: Kraft cancels Hockeyville, gives $1M to minor hockey
Kraft Canada cancelled its popular Hockeyville program Tuesday, a victim of the protracted National Hockey League lockout that is seeing sponsors as well as fans grow weary.
Kraft said it would give $1 million to Hockey Canada affiliated minor hockey associations instead of the annual competition that rewards Canadian communities for their involvement in their local arenas.
Ken Wong, a marketing professor at Queen’s University, said the decision was the latest sign that the NHL and its brand are in trouble.
“What I’m hearing in both the media and the person on the street is a growing resentment about it. It is OK if fans are resentful in a sense because that means they are emotionally attached, but now it is getting to the point of who cares,” Wong said of lockout.
“And when it gets to who cares, that’s when a brand has big trouble because it says now you’ve lost your relevance.”
The NHL has already cancelled regular season games through Nov. 30 as well as its Winter Classic outdoor game that was planned for New Years Day in Michigan.
In 2005, the league waited until Feb. 16 before it called off the entire season.
The Kraft cancellation follows comments by Molson Coors chief executive Peter Swinburn, who said earlier this month that once the lockout ends the brewer — a league sponsor — will seek financial compensation from the NHL.
“There will be some redress for us as a result of this. I can’t quantify that and I don’t know because I don’t know the scale of how long the lockout is going to last,” he said at the time.
The league met with the NHL Players’ Association on Monday and asked the union to put all of its demands into one complete offer.
The sides are at loggerheads over proposed changes to player contract rights and how to share revenue.
From a marketing and brand perspective, Wong said the next development to watch for will be if sponsors drop endorsement of star players.
“When you see that, that will really tell you that for the advertisers that person has lost their cache,” he said.
“The problem now is the longer they are away from the table, the less they are in the news, and the less they are in the news the less relevant they are going to become to people.”
Stirling-Rawdon, Ont., was the last winner of Kraft’s Hockeyville promotion and was to host a pre-season game before the lockout. That game has been postponed until the 2013-14 season.
Under the new program, Kraft will recognize the top five volunteers and award their hockey associations with $100,000, while 20 other volunteers will win $20,000 for their associations.
Kraft will also give $100,000 to Hockey Canada for learn-to-skate programs.
“Through our many years of involvement in community hockey, we realize there are countless unrecognized hockey volunteers and it’s because of them that our favourite sport goes on,” said Jack Hewitt, Kraft Canada’s vice-president of marketing insight and services.
Kraft cancelling is a big sponsor
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I think it's bullshit that owners signed contracts and are now trying to go back on them. Make all the changes to future deals, but if you signed Luongo to 9 years, you've got to own that.
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
I think it's bullshit that owners signed contracts and are now trying to go back on them. Make all the changes to future deals, but if you signed Luongo to 9 years, you've got to own that.
i think the biggest BS is that bettman only needs 8 owners to support him ... so, you have 8 out of 30 with a hard line agenda forcing their hand ...
I think it's bullshit that owners signed contracts and are now trying to go back on them. Make all the changes to future deals, but if you signed Luongo to 9 years, you've got to own that.
i think the biggest BS is that bettman only needs 8 owners to support him ... so, you have 8 out of 30 with a hard line agenda forcing their hand ...
I think the bigger BS is that none of these owners are allowed to talk to the media. people make a big stick about the players talking about signing the deal but no word from the owners.
its good strategy and organization. Just another leg the owners have up on the players, and another reason why it has been so foolish for the players to pursue their strategy of making a lot of noise and waiting out the owners.
Also remember the owners have Bettman in place via a unanimous vote.
The NHLPA on the other hand have been a complete mess since the last lockout. They havent even been able to settle on a leader. Fehr happened to be in place when the roulette wheel stopped. Kelly would have gotten them a better deal sooner IMO.
I also believe if nearly half or more of the owners wanted Bettman to move toward a resolution, he would probably do so. He is employed by them and can easily be removed. I have a feeling most owners are on the same page and is nowhere near a case of Bettman going rogue and stroking his ego by creating such a hard-line.
Again, that is my opinion and may not be the case.
Ryan Miller wanted to make it clear he was speaking only for himself.
But the Buffalo Sabres’ goaltender also wanted his name attached to his comments and to take a stand on the controversial subject of decertifying the National Hockey League Players’ Association as the next step in the lockout.
He is for it, and he doesn’t mind explaining why.
“After watching the other sport leagues go through labour disputes last year, it is apparent that until decertification is filed, there will not be any real movement or negotiation,” Miller wrote in an e-mail to The Globe and Mail. “Many things in our negotiation are very consistent with the NFL and NBA negotiations, and both of those leagues filed papers necessary to decertify.
“It seems like the players in any league are going to be subjected to the same scripted labour dispute developed by [NHL and NBA law firm] Proskauer Rose in all collective bargaining discussions now and in the future. Decertification becomes part of the script because Gary Bettman and the owners are trying to get a sense of how far they can push us and at some point we have to say ‘enough.’
“They want to see if we will take a bad deal because we get desperate or if we have the strength to push back. Decertification is a push back and should show we want a negotiation and a fair deal on at least some of our terms.”
Decertification – essentially the dissolution of the union – has been discussed by NHLPA members under executive director Donald Fehr going back to at least September, but it was believed to be a last resort.
The NHL's Problem: Only Three Teams Are Making Real Money
The NHL’s problem is the widespread disparity in profits for its 30 teams. We estimated that 18 teams lost money during the 2010-11 season in our annual look at the business of hockey. Several other teams barely eked out a profit, but the league’s most flush teams made a killing. The Toronto Maple Leafs, New York Rangers and Montreal Canadiens had an operating profit (in the sense of earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization) of $171 million combined. The other 27 NHL teams lost a collective $44 million. If you add the Vancouver Canucks and Edmonton Oilers to the fat cats ledger, profits hit $212 million with the remaining 25 teams posting a loss of $86 million.
The concentration of wealth at the top is similar in the NBA. The three most profitable teams during the 2010-11 season, New York Knicks, Chicago Bulls and Cleveland Cavaliers (a 1-year anomaly where the team sold out its arena with a cut-rate payroll ahead of LeBron James skipping town), earned $167 million. The total represented 96% of the league’s estimated profits of $175 million. The NBA tripled revenue sharing in its new CBA to help prop up small market teams.
Why did the NFL settle with its players before any regular season games were lost? Look at the numbers. The NFL’s richest teams, Dallas Cowboys, New England Patriots and Washington Redskins, earned a staggering $454 million last season. Yet, that total represented just 35% of the NFL’s $1.3 billion in total operating profit. The NFL cut back its supplemental revenue sharing program in its latest CBA. It expects $45 billion in new TV agreements to prop up the low revenue teams and keep their profit margins high.
Baseball is the most equitable major U.S. sports league when it comes to sharing the wealth. No wonder it will have had 21 years of labor peace by the time its current CBA expires in 2016. The top three earners last season, Cleveland Indians, Kansas City Royals and Chicago Cubs, made $87 million, which is only 20% of MLB’s $432 million in operating profit. High-revenue teams like the New York Yankees and Boston Red Sox are content to run baseball operations with small profits, while making a killing through their ownership stakes in the regional sports networks that broadcast their games.
MLB has the heftiest supplemental revenue sharing system with roughly $400 million changing hands last season from the high revenue teams to the low revenue ones. The Yankees alone kicked in $110 million in revenue sharing in 2011.
I think it's bullshit that owners signed contracts and are now trying to go back on them. Make all the changes to future deals, but if you signed Luongo to 9 years, you've got to own that.
i think the biggest BS is that bettman only needs 8 owners to support him ... so, you have 8 out of 30 with a hard line agenda forcing their hand ...
I think the bigger BS is that none of these owners are allowed to talk to the media. people make a big stick about the players talking about signing the deal but no word from the owners.
Why? the owners appear united...the worst thing any-side can do in a labor dispute is show weakness. The players are showing weakness...I suspect its just a matter of time before the players agree to the owners demand or the owners succeed in breaking the NHLPA.
These owners have other business's ... for most owning an NHL team is just a billionaires hobby ... most don't make money till the playoffs ... owners are saving money as of now ... if they get an agreement in January and have 30 - 35 game season the teams that make the playoffs will be racking in the $$$$.
The players are either oversees playing for far less than their accustomed to, or not playing at all ... in this dispute they are really only hurting themselves.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
i think the biggest BS is that bettman only needs 8 owners to support him ... so, you have 8 out of 30 with a hard line agenda forcing their hand ...
is that 8 owners for any decision the NHL needs to make? Because if thats the case...then Quebec or Saskatoon or whoever else in Canada wants an NHL franchise can forget that...the US owners are not going to give up control of the NHL to Canadian teams.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
i think the biggest BS is that bettman only needs 8 owners to support him ... so, you have 8 out of 30 with a hard line agenda forcing their hand ...
is that 8 owners for any decision the NHL needs to make? Because if thats the case...then Quebec or Saskatoon or whoever else in Canada wants an NHL franchise can forget that...the US owners are not going to give up control of the NHL to Canadian teams.
I think that we will see talk of expansion to Quebec City, Seattle and/or Markham a little bit after this CBA is sealed up.
You also have Phoenix, NJ, Florida, and Columbus in a bit of trouble.
i think the biggest BS is that bettman only needs 8 owners to support him ... so, you have 8 out of 30 with a hard line agenda forcing their hand ...
is that 8 owners for any decision the NHL needs to make? Because if thats the case...then Quebec or Saskatoon or whoever else in Canada wants an NHL franchise can forget that...the US owners are not going to give up control of the NHL to Canadian teams.
I think that we will see talk of expansion to Quebec City, Seattle and/or Markham a little bit after this CBA is sealed up.
You also have Phoenix, NJ, Florida, and Columbus in a bit of trouble.
You'll never see a team in Markham ... the Maple Leafs will not allow it, I don't even think an absurd amount of money would convince the leafs, just the fact that building that arena in Markham will undoubtably take away events from the ACC which I believe is owned by the same group that owns the Leafs, Raptors etc (polaris can confirm that). As for Quebec, they have no arena in place, they have recently changed governments so there is no guarantee they'll get an arena done anytime soon and the federal government is unlikely to help fund an arena.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
You'll never see a team in Markham ... the Maple Leafs will not allow it, I don't even think an absurd amount of money would convince the leafs, just the fact that building that arena in Markham will undoubtably take away events from the ACC which I believe is owned by the same group that owns the Leafs, Raptors etc (polaris can confirm that). As for Quebec, they have no arena in place, they have recently changed governments so there is no guarantee they'll get an arena done anytime soon and the federal government is unlikely to help fund an arena.
MLSE owns the raptors and leafs and TFC and the marlies ... but MLSE just got bought by a consortium that includes Rogers and Bell ... soo ... really Rogers owns all the major sports teams except the Argos ...
I think if the NHL expands - it will pretty much reveal them as more frauds than they already are ... all the owners are gonna pocket the money and when these markets fail - it will be because of player salaries ...
Comments
http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/nh ... -money-cox
The amazing thing about talking to NHL pensioners about the way in which their interests are not being represented at the table in current CBA as described in the Star today is that none really have much negative to say about today’s owners or players.
Milt Schmidt, who is in limbo along with hundreds of former players about important Senior Benefits that require a new agreement between the NHL and NHLPA, says he’s “grateful” for the decision in 2005 that gave players those benefits and doesn’t resent modern-day players for the money they make.
“More power to ’em!” says Schmidt, a member of Boston’s famed Kraut Line along with Bobby Bauer and Woody Dumart.
“I can thank the good game of hockey for everything I have.”
None express bitterness over the fact that current players — Erik Cole is the latest example — talk in grand, vague terms about fighting for the rights of future players, but don’t seem to have the same regard for the rights and needs of players who skated in the NHL in the 1940s, 1950s and 1960s.
Bob Nevin was one of six players in the Montreal hotel room back in 1967 when the NHLPA was first recognized by NHL owners.
“That union was hard fought for,” he says. “But it ended up doing not as much as what we hoped for.”
Nevin’s pension for playing 1,128 NHL games is $8,500 a year.
“I remember Clarence Campbell saying we had the best pension in sports,” says Nevin. “I’ll remember that until the day I die. What was he talking about?”
At issue today is the monies owed players 65 and older as part of the Senior Benefit Plan established in 2005 by a letter agreement accompanying that year’s collective bargaining agreement. The Senior Benefit is funded by $2 million annually from the NHLPA matched by the NHL. It is not legally part of their pensions nor part of the actual CBA, but it expired when the old CBA did.
Ex-players over the age of 65, or their surviving widows, receive $1,380 for every season played. Current NHL Alumni executive director Mark Napier is hoping to have the pool of money increased. Ex-players are owed their next payment in January, but without a new CBA, they may not get it.
Ex-Leaf Danny Lewicki says he hopes that today’s players understand why they should support older players.
“I hope they realize what players went through for the love of the game,” he says. “It wasn’t for money, I can tell you that.”
Lewicki remembers making his highest salary of $12,500 while with the New York Rangers, and then approaching GM Muzz Patrick for a $2,000 raise after a good season.
“Muzz threw me out of his office,” says Lewicki.
Lewicki said he was pleased when the NHL and NHLPA agreed seven years ago to start jointly funding the Senior Benefit Plan, which expired when the current CBA expired Sept. 15.
“I was gratified, but surprised. Very surprised,” he said.
Wally Stanowski, 93, says he used to “hate” the Leafs because of the “cheap” way in which the club dealt with its former players. He said he was approached by Ken Dryden to attend the closing of Maple Leaf Gardens, but he was in Mexico at the time and the offer quickly disappeared because he would have needed to have his flight expenses covered.
Stanowski said current Leaf GM Brian Burke has softened his view. He said when he was invited to drop the puck at a Leaf game two years ago, Burke gave him 12 tickets for his family and sent a chauffered car to pick him up.
“Burke changed my mind,” said Stanowski.
Stanowski won a Memorial Cup in 1938 with the St. Boniface Seals, a team that had only 10 players and a budget of $800 to cover TWO seasons.
Stanowski, who played for the Leafs between 1939 and 1948, said the most he made with the Leafs was $5,000 in a season, out of which $900 was deducted for his pension and was supposed to be matched by the owners.
“But no team ever did it,” he says. “They just washed their hands of it.”
Schmidt, by the way, had a message for Stanowski when he heard that I was interviewing both for today’s story.
“One night Bill Barilko hit me so hard that I did a complete somersault,” said Schmidt. “I landed on top of Stanowski. So thank him for the soft landing, will you?”
Stanowski is a huge baseball fan, but says he rarely watches today’s hockey.
“I think it’s terrible,” he said. “They keep shooting the puck in and going after it. What happened to possession?”
Dallas Smith, 71, says he worries that if the Senior Benefit Plan isn’t renewed, that the Emergency Players Fund that helps players in desperate need might also be lost.
He cites the experience of the late Fern Flaman, who suffered from cancer at the same time his wife was dealing with dementia.
“He needed help,” says Smith. “He got some, but not as much as he needed.”
Like most, he doesn’t really pick sides in the current lockout, although he says in his day he had to “fight for every nickle” he could get in salary.
“I don’t really blame the owners,” he says. “But I hope to God something happens with our benefits. I don’t think that (Donald) Fehr cares.”
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Logistically Im not sure how they would stock teams fairly. Maybe open a window for 700 players to declare they want to play in the NHL, then anyone not under contract enters a big draft?
The NHLPA has no ability to start anything up on their own. They couldnt get the investors or infrastructure and I think the public is ultimately more loyal to the crests than these players (who are killing their image through twitter). Maybe 20 years ago it was possible, but now it would require too much money. Even if they could, they would be taking all the risk, and probably not come close to the $ they will get even with the NHLs first garbage offer over the Summer.
The owners have money coming in now. Players do not and are about to miss the 4th of their 13 checks this year in what is a very small career earnings window. The owners can wait and wait. The players have had the wrong strategy the entire time, trying to draw a line and wait. They needed to either bargain ahead of time in order to not lose any time and get the best deal possible, or create a complete PR nightmare for the NHL side (which they have done the opposite).
I dunno. I would have picked Murray just due to the glut of young forwards they already have.... and Murray seems like a cant-miss as well.
However, Im really impressed with Yakupov. All indications show that he is a workhorse and is completely devoted to being an NHL Superstar. I know there are always (justly so) skepticism on Russian players, but I really believe Yakupov is pretty legit.
Spec on CBA: Players are losing, and they know it
The owners are winning the way they always win, by out waiting the players, and simply saying "No."
And the players, whose frustration becomes more evident tweet by tweet, are making their way down that inevitable road to defeat.
Finally, outright dissention arrived right on schedule Wednesday, as veteran defenceman Roman Hamrlik called out union head Donald Fehr on the Czech web site iSport.cz.
"I am disgusted," Hamrlik told the web site. "We have to push Fehr to the wall to get the deal. Time is against us.
"We lost 1/4 season, it is $425 million. Who will give it back to us? Mr. Fehr? There should be voting between players. Four questions -- YES or NO -- then count it. If half of players say let's play, then they should sign new CBA.
"If there is no season he should leave and we will find someone new. Time is our enemy."
Yes, as if on cue, the war drums officially sounded in the jungle beyond Fehr's office on Nov. 21. And if former players like Bill Guerin and Mike Modano were talking to the media these days, they would echo exactly what former NHLer Chris Therien tweeted the other day, when the old defenceman said that he would have some serious questions for Fehr if Therien were still playing today.
"Because quite frankly I'm not in the mood to fight the good fight for some kid 10 years from now," Therien, now a Flyers radio analyst, tweeted. "I'm all about union solidarity and staying with it. But what happens when its 4th and a mile and your punter just broke his leg?
"I'm not saying Don Fehr doesn't have a plan B, but if I'm a player again now, I'm calling on that 'always available' line to find it out (what it is)."
"Don't try and fight the players," that tired old jingle used to go, "because they're used to having each other's backs in a battle."
Really? Ask Bob Goodenow how that one worked out for him. Or Ted Saskin.
Or Brendan Shanahan. Or Trevor Linden. Or Paul Kelly…
The reality is, when the money begins to run out, so does the solidarity. That's why the top earners in the prime of their careers -- guys like Jonathan Toews and Sidney Crosby -- aren't likely to crack.
But the "replaceables" like Brandon Prust, or players nearing the finish line like Hamrlik -- one of just 14 players to have experienced three lockouts in their career -- don't have the patience to out-wait the owners.
Seriously, we learned a few things from the last lockout, and those lessons are all beginning to play out once again:
• This is all about money, and each individual owner has a lot more money -- and several more revenue streams -- than each player does. So the players grow frustrated as now three, and soon four of their 13 pay periods pass them by in a short career, after which most of them are unclear about their earnings.
"I don't know where you go from here," Martin St. Louis told the Tampa Times. "It's very frustrating."
• The owners will come out of this with a better economy -- likely at a 50-50 split starting immediately -- thereby, tangible profits from the lockout exist for them. Theoretically, each owner can do the math on exactly when he will recover every dollar from this lockout (damage to the game, excluded) under a more profitable system.
Conversely, every dollar lost by a player is a dollar lost forever. The players know this, and as the checks pass them by they're beginning to see what they saw last time: an adversary that knows it will win, and is fine with sacrificing a season in the process.
Fehr has these players convinced that they are making serious concessions, even though the NHLPA's proposal would likely see them making better than 52 per cent of league revenues for the life of the CBA.
Players accustomed to hearing "Yes!" from NHL general managers are now hearing "No," from the owners. The economy suggests that they give back for the second straight CBA, and Fehr is doing his damnedest to make sure the loss is so incremental in each year of the deal, that players barely even feel the pain.
"We'll get to 50-50," he says, "but only after five years."
The league counters with: "You'll get to 50-50 right now, and we'll 'make whole' those contracts the best we can."
That is why the last two NHLPA proposals were dismissed by the owners at warp speed; because they ignore the basic premise that we've all known to be true since this thing started:
The owners are going to get their way, and the players are not.
"We are willing. They are not," tweeted St. Louis defenceman Kevin Shattenkirk.
If by "willing" he means, willing to give even more before this lockout is over, then we wholeheartedly agree.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl-lock ... y_know_it/
I'll say this I never bought into the Ovechkin hype...I heard from numerous people, read numerous stories that he was far superior to Crosby...well now who's the better player...should be no doubt that Crosby is by far the better player.
If Yakupov had went to the AHL or back to his junior team (which I believe was his only option) then he would have impressed me ... for 2 reasons, 1. would have allowed the Oilers to keep a much more watchful eye on his progress, plus the Sarnia Sting would have worked with Oilers developing him into a much stronger NHL player, 2. the chance to help your junior team win a memorial cup or even take a run at.
But in the Oilers case ... I think Murray would have been a better choice ... I'm still not convinced their all that close to competing ... they have many holes to fill ... drafting Murray would have been a big hole filled.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Probably part of the reason the owners are winning/will win is the players just can't keep their mouth shut.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I understand your frustration but do you really think that it is the players fault for ticket prices? The real reason that NHL players have never had to hold a real job is because if you want to play in the NHL you need to commit to playing it full time. what other pro league has 18 years old playing?
Even if players made $75 a game, the prices would still be put at a point to maximize profits.
I think I will explain myself better ... I have yet to hear either side say that they need to control cost so it's affordable for the average fan ... These guys could care a less about fans ... All they see is $$$$ ...
They all make far more than there worth and that's not just hockey, that's all athlete's ... IMO.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Done with the NHL I walked away from baseball with no problem. Me and the wife will drive down to Cincy and watch the ECHL team there. Wheeling WV is also an option. Tickets are half the cost.
I've absolutley had it with the NHL. Four fucking lockouts is enough. I'm not going to burn or throw away any of my Sabres stuff but I'm not spending one more dime on the NHL. These fuckers are a bunch of assholes and I have had it with this league. If this continues the league will fold anyway.
Later NHL it was fun while the games were on.
I doubt the KHL is good alternative long term ... lots of problems with KHL ... most rinks are shoddy soviet era, air travel is suspect, 30 million salary cap ... life is pretty good in the NHL ...too bad these millionaires don't want to admit that ... 5 star hotels, first class chartered air, most teams play in top notch facilities and all players earn 6 figure salaries and many earn 7 figure salaries ... and most have never held a real job in their life other than part - time jobs ... sympathize with them I will not. I'll save my sympathy for the people that would like to take their kids to the game but can not afford to do so.
I still believe they will plat just not till after christmas.[/quote]
I understand your frustration but do you really think that it is the players fault for ticket prices? The real reason that NHL players have never had to hold a real job is because if you want to play in the NHL you need to commit to playing it full time. what other pro league has 18 years old playing?[/quote]
I think I will explain myself better ... I have yet to hear either side say that they need to control cost so it's affordable for the average fan ... These guys could care a less about fans ... All they see is $$$$ ...
They all make far more than there worth and that's not just hockey, that's all athlete's ... IMO.[/quote]
I remember during the last lockout, Bettman talked about how prices will drop if they got what they needed but the reality is that the NHL really doesn't care about it's fan. Of course you can also say that no pro league really cares about it fans.
I disagree about the all athlete part. They get paid whatever the owners think they are worth. We here can say that how dare athlete complain about their money when some many people don't get paid as much as them but to be honest, I think NHL players do alot of good for their cities that they play for.
while I can see your point, if I am a superstar and have say 12 years left in my career I don't know if I would want a person who might have 2 year left in their career deciding my future. its a fine balance.
I for one and upset that we don't hear alot about how Betmann only really needs 7 owners to support him. the reason it is 7 is due to the fact that the NHL owes 1 team already.
i hear ya ... i would think it's reverse ... i mean the 2 year guy could just accept all conditions and get paid ... but if you're the 12 year guy and a) you've lost your ability to determine where you can play and b) the market may or may not dictate your salary ... and that you lose this and lose that ... it will have a larger impact ...
something else to consider is if this goes beyond this season ... will the nhl be able to hire replacement players if it is indeed a lockout as opposed to a strike?
Neuvirth: Lockout "Is About Several Superstars With Big Contracts"
The Caps netminder expressly comes to the defense of one teammate... while implicitly throwing another under the bus.
A day after Roman Hamrlik expressed his frustration with both the state of affairs on the labor front and his union's leadership, Michal Neuvirth came to his Caps teammate and fellow countryman's defense. Per TSN:
"I agree 100 percent with Hammer," Neuvirth told TVA Nova Sport in the Czech Republic. "This lockout is not about majority of players, I think. It is about several superstars with big contracts."
So... is Neuvirth/Ovechkin now more or less awkward than Neuvirth/Holtby?
For his part, Hamrlik clarified his comments a bit in an interview with TSN:
"I've been in the league for 20 years and faced three lockouts," Hamrlik told TSN's That's Hockey on Wednesday. "There's only 14 other players in the league that are facing their third career lockout. I believe I've earned the right to say what I think."
"Someone thinks I'm selfish - I might be," Hamrlik told TSN. "But it's selfish to play hockey. I still want to play with the Capitals or at least have the chance to win and go as far as I can. I think time is against us and we need to find a solution. I think that it's a fight between two groups that have too much pride. We need to find an agreement - I still support Fehr, but we as players we need to push him a little bit more and get the best deal possible."
...
"I'm just disappointed - I know it's a really tough business, it's not just me losing money. Everybody's losing money - the sooner we figure it out, the better for everybody."
http://www.japersrink.com/2012/11/22/36 ... -contracts
Another NHL lockout casualty: Kraft cancels Hockeyville, gives $1M to minor hockey
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sports/h ... story.html
Kraft Canada cancelled its popular Hockeyville program Tuesday, a victim of the protracted National Hockey League lockout that is seeing sponsors as well as fans grow weary.
Kraft said it would give $1 million to Hockey Canada affiliated minor hockey associations instead of the annual competition that rewards Canadian communities for their involvement in their local arenas.
Ken Wong, a marketing professor at Queen’s University, said the decision was the latest sign that the NHL and its brand are in trouble.
“What I’m hearing in both the media and the person on the street is a growing resentment about it. It is OK if fans are resentful in a sense because that means they are emotionally attached, but now it is getting to the point of who cares,” Wong said of lockout.
“And when it gets to who cares, that’s when a brand has big trouble because it says now you’ve lost your relevance.”
The NHL has already cancelled regular season games through Nov. 30 as well as its Winter Classic outdoor game that was planned for New Years Day in Michigan.
In 2005, the league waited until Feb. 16 before it called off the entire season.
The Kraft cancellation follows comments by Molson Coors chief executive Peter Swinburn, who said earlier this month that once the lockout ends the brewer — a league sponsor — will seek financial compensation from the NHL.
“There will be some redress for us as a result of this. I can’t quantify that and I don’t know because I don’t know the scale of how long the lockout is going to last,” he said at the time.
The league met with the NHL Players’ Association on Monday and asked the union to put all of its demands into one complete offer.
The sides are at loggerheads over proposed changes to player contract rights and how to share revenue.
From a marketing and brand perspective, Wong said the next development to watch for will be if sponsors drop endorsement of star players.
“When you see that, that will really tell you that for the advertisers that person has lost their cache,” he said.
“The problem now is the longer they are away from the table, the less they are in the news, and the less they are in the news the less relevant they are going to become to people.”
Stirling-Rawdon, Ont., was the last winner of Kraft’s Hockeyville promotion and was to host a pre-season game before the lockout. That game has been postponed until the 2013-14 season.
Under the new program, Kraft will recognize the top five volunteers and award their hockey associations with $100,000, while 20 other volunteers will win $20,000 for their associations.
Kraft will also give $100,000 to Hockey Canada for learn-to-skate programs.
“Through our many years of involvement in community hockey, we realize there are countless unrecognized hockey volunteers and it’s because of them that our favourite sport goes on,” said Jack Hewitt, Kraft Canada’s vice-president of marketing insight and services.
Kraft cancelling is a big sponsor
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
i think the biggest BS is that bettman only needs 8 owners to support him ... so, you have 8 out of 30 with a hard line agenda forcing their hand ...
I think the bigger BS is that none of these owners are allowed to talk to the media. people make a big stick about the players talking about signing the deal but no word from the owners.
Also remember the owners have Bettman in place via a unanimous vote.
The NHLPA on the other hand have been a complete mess since the last lockout. They havent even been able to settle on a leader. Fehr happened to be in place when the roulette wheel stopped. Kelly would have gotten them a better deal sooner IMO.
I also believe if nearly half or more of the owners wanted Bettman to move toward a resolution, he would probably do so. He is employed by them and can easily be removed. I have a feeling most owners are on the same page and is nowhere near a case of Bettman going rogue and stroking his ego by creating such a hard-line.
Again, that is my opinion and may not be the case.
Ryan Miller wanted to make it clear he was speaking only for himself.
But the Buffalo Sabres’ goaltender also wanted his name attached to his comments and to take a stand on the controversial subject of decertifying the National Hockey League Players’ Association as the next step in the lockout.
He is for it, and he doesn’t mind explaining why.
“After watching the other sport leagues go through labour disputes last year, it is apparent that until decertification is filed, there will not be any real movement or negotiation,” Miller wrote in an e-mail to The Globe and Mail. “Many things in our negotiation are very consistent with the NFL and NBA negotiations, and both of those leagues filed papers necessary to decertify.
“It seems like the players in any league are going to be subjected to the same scripted labour dispute developed by [NHL and NBA law firm] Proskauer Rose in all collective bargaining discussions now and in the future. Decertification becomes part of the script because Gary Bettman and the owners are trying to get a sense of how far they can push us and at some point we have to say ‘enough.’
“They want to see if we will take a bad deal because we get desperate or if we have the strength to push back. Decertification is a push back and should show we want a negotiation and a fair deal on at least some of our terms.”
Decertification – essentially the dissolution of the union – has been discussed by NHLPA members under executive director Donald Fehr going back to at least September, but it was believed to be a last resort.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/h ... le5578329/
The NHL’s problem is the widespread disparity in profits for its 30 teams. We estimated that 18 teams lost money during the 2010-11 season in our annual look at the business of hockey. Several other teams barely eked out a profit, but the league’s most flush teams made a killing. The Toronto Maple Leafs, New York Rangers and Montreal Canadiens had an operating profit (in the sense of earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization) of $171 million combined. The other 27 NHL teams lost a collective $44 million. If you add the Vancouver Canucks and Edmonton Oilers to the fat cats ledger, profits hit $212 million with the remaining 25 teams posting a loss of $86 million.
The concentration of wealth at the top is similar in the NBA. The three most profitable teams during the 2010-11 season, New York Knicks, Chicago Bulls and Cleveland Cavaliers (a 1-year anomaly where the team sold out its arena with a cut-rate payroll ahead of LeBron James skipping town), earned $167 million. The total represented 96% of the league’s estimated profits of $175 million. The NBA tripled revenue sharing in its new CBA to help prop up small market teams.
Why did the NFL settle with its players before any regular season games were lost? Look at the numbers. The NFL’s richest teams, Dallas Cowboys, New England Patriots and Washington Redskins, earned a staggering $454 million last season. Yet, that total represented just 35% of the NFL’s $1.3 billion in total operating profit. The NFL cut back its supplemental revenue sharing program in its latest CBA. It expects $45 billion in new TV agreements to prop up the low revenue teams and keep their profit margins high.
Baseball is the most equitable major U.S. sports league when it comes to sharing the wealth. No wonder it will have had 21 years of labor peace by the time its current CBA expires in 2016. The top three earners last season, Cleveland Indians, Kansas City Royals and Chicago Cubs, made $87 million, which is only 20% of MLB’s $432 million in operating profit. High-revenue teams like the New York Yankees and Boston Red Sox are content to run baseball operations with small profits, while making a killing through their ownership stakes in the regional sports networks that broadcast their games.
MLB has the heftiest supplemental revenue sharing system with roughly $400 million changing hands last season from the high revenue teams to the low revenue ones. The Yankees alone kicked in $110 million in revenue sharing in 2011.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenha ... have-them/
Why? the owners appear united...the worst thing any-side can do in a labor dispute is show weakness. The players are showing weakness...I suspect its just a matter of time before the players agree to the owners demand or the owners succeed in breaking the NHLPA.
These owners have other business's ... for most owning an NHL team is just a billionaires hobby ... most don't make money till the playoffs ... owners are saving money as of now ... if they get an agreement in January and have 30 - 35 game season the teams that make the playoffs will be racking in the $$$$.
The players are either oversees playing for far less than their accustomed to, or not playing at all ... in this dispute they are really only hurting themselves.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
is that 8 owners for any decision the NHL needs to make? Because if thats the case...then Quebec or Saskatoon or whoever else in Canada wants an NHL franchise can forget that...the US owners are not going to give up control of the NHL to Canadian teams.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I think that we will see talk of expansion to Quebec City, Seattle and/or Markham a little bit after this CBA is sealed up.
You also have Phoenix, NJ, Florida, and Columbus in a bit of trouble.
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck- ... --nhl.html
http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/blog/eye-o ... ed-why-not
You'll never see a team in Markham ... the Maple Leafs will not allow it, I don't even think an absurd amount of money would convince the leafs, just the fact that building that arena in Markham will undoubtably take away events from the ACC which I believe is owned by the same group that owns the Leafs, Raptors etc (polaris can confirm that). As for Quebec, they have no arena in place, they have recently changed governments so there is no guarantee they'll get an arena done anytime soon and the federal government is unlikely to help fund an arena.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
MLSE owns the raptors and leafs and TFC and the marlies ... but MLSE just got bought by a consortium that includes Rogers and Bell ... soo ... really Rogers owns all the major sports teams except the Argos ...
I think if the NHL expands - it will pretty much reveal them as more frauds than they already are ... all the owners are gonna pocket the money and when these markets fail - it will be because of player salaries ...