Morality Without God

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Comments

  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    hostis wrote:
    Byrnzie. why have you not experienced God. and can you prove it please.

    Because 'God' is just a word, and is ultimately meaningless.
    hostis wrote:
    or alternatively, stop goading, questioning and cajoling....

    Stop questioning? Me? Naah!
  • Thoughts_Arrive
    Thoughts_Arrive Melbourne, Australia Posts: 15,165
    I can be moral without believing Vedder, Cobain, Morrison, Hendrix exist.
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
  • hostis
    hostis Posts: 441
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Because 'God' is just a word, and is ultimately meaningless.

    Only to you.

    To others it means everything and they see God in everything - in the wind, in the trees, in animals, in everything. It's insulting to keep pushing your views to others and denegrating other people's personal views.

    You can't seem to accept anyone else's view on here but your own. It's small minded, shallow and I, unfortunately, am starting to feel sorry for you. And not in an empathetic way, but a pitying way.

    Richard Dawkins is not necessarily right (The God Delusion).
    David Bohm is not necessarily right (Unfolding Meaning).
    The Dalai Llama is not necessarily right (The Art of Happiness).
    No one is.

    I would have thought a fan of a band like PJ would be one of the more accepting, loving, empathetic and compassionate people on the planet. I hope I am not wrong.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    hostis wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Because 'God' is just a word, and is ultimately meaningless.

    Only to you.

    To others it means everything and they see God in everything - in the wind, in the trees, in animals, in everything. It's insulting to keep pushing your views to others and denegrating other people's personal views.

    You can't seem to accept anyone else's view on here but your own. It's small minded, shallow and I, unfortunately, am starting to feel sorry for you. And not in an empathetic way, but a pitying way.

    Richard Dawkins is not necessarily right (The God Delusion).
    David Bohm is not necessarily right (Unfolding Meaning).
    The Dalai Llama is not necessarily right (The Art of Happiness).
    No one is.

    I would have thought a fan of a band like PJ would be one of the more accepting, loving, empathetic and compassionate people on the planet. I hope I am not wrong.

    My attitude in this thread has nothing to do with accepting anyone's views or not. All I've heard is someone saying they 'walk with God' and that they 'know him' and 'love him'. I've asked what this 'God' is but have received no reply other than that I shouldn't pick words apart or question anything.

    You mention small mindedness and shallowness? As far as I'm concerned, throwing a word around like 'God' and just expecting people to swallow it is small-minded and shallow. This is the 21st century, not the Middle Ages. The concept of 'God' has been questioned for centuries now, so why pretend to be offended?
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    hostis wrote:
    I would have thought a fan of a band like PJ would be one of the more accepting, loving, empathetic and compassionate people on the planet. I hope I am not wrong.

    Tell that to all the pro-death penalty types, and pro-war people on this board - to cite just two examples.

    I see you've only posted 58 posts.

    This board, and I imagine the band in general, attracts all sorts. Stick around a while and you'll see.

    And by the way, having a critical mind doesn't mean someone lacks empathy or compassion. In fact, it could imply the exact opposite.
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    Byrnzie wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    I have experienced God.

    So you keep saying. Yet you're incapable of explaining to anyone what this means. You may just as well say 'I have experienced bananas'.
    I see Brynzie you have experienced bananas ....
    making my point clearer.
    My quote which perhaps you need to read again explains
    how you may never understand God...
    or me.
    The next time you ask someone to explain who or what God is remember you will have to experience Him yourself to understand what and who He is.



    "To show empathy is to identify with another's feelings. It is to emotionally put yourself in the place of another. The ability to empathize is directly dependent on your ability to feel your own feelings and identify them.

    If you have never felt a certain feeling, it will be hard for you to understand how another person is feeling. This holds equally true for pleasure and pain. If, for example, you have never put your hand in a flame, you will not know the pain of fire. If you have not experienced sexual passion, you will not understand its power. Similarly, if you have never felt rebellious or defiant, you will not understand those feelings. Reading about a feeling and intellectually knowing about it is very different than actually experiencing it for yourself.

    Among those with an equal level of innate emotional intelligence, the person who has actually experienced the widest range and variety of feelings -- the great depths of depression and the heights of fulfillment, for example, -- is the one who is most able to empathize with the greatest number of people from all walks of life. On the other hand, when we say that someone "can't relate" to other people, it is likely because they haven't experienced, acknowledged or accepted many feelings of their own.


    what throws me is the fact you are not even curious about God..
    Intelligent people are inquisitive and in search of experience.
    Humans are evolving, learning new things everyday,
    some growing in their capacity to empathize and show compassion.
    There are those who are feeling the universe.
    God is not necessarily the way there but trying to understand others is.


    Give the new thought a chance.
    Religion is on the way out... God is on the way in.

    Above all else live and let live and love... we do not have to agree on our beliefs
    just respect them, it is a nonissue who believes and who doesn't
    unless you are intent on making it so.
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    Byrnzie wrote:
    hostis wrote:
    Byrnzie. why have you not experienced God. and can you prove it please.

    Because 'God' is just a word, and is ultimately meaningless.
    hostis wrote:
    or alternatively, stop goading, questioning and cajoling....

    Stop questioning? Me? Naah!
    Brynzie is just a word too ;)


    I believe your motives are not to learn and understand me, others or God ...
    your door is closed.

    hostis has stated that he or she is a non-believer
    but he or she possess the empathy and compassion, the emotional intelligence
    to understand believers.
    An example of different beliefs coming together in harmony.

    This a wonderful example of a PJ fan... and welcome! :D
  • hostis
    hostis Posts: 441
    pandora wrote:

    hostis has stated that he or she is a non-believer
    but he or she possess the empathy and compassion, the emotional intelligence
    to understand believers.
    An example of different beliefs coming together in harmony.

    This a wonderful example of a PJ fan... and welcome! :D

    *takes a bow*

    Thank you. And I'm a he. :D
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    hostis wrote:
    pandora wrote:

    hostis has stated that he or she is a non-believer
    but he or she possess the empathy and compassion, the emotional intelligence
    to understand believers.
    An example of different beliefs coming together in harmony.

    This a wonderful example of a PJ fan... and welcome! :D

    *takes a bow*

    Thank you. And I'm a he. :D
    welcome Sir!
    and thank you for your generosity :D
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    pandora wrote:
    what throws me is the fact you are not even curious about God..

    I actually don't think you're curious about 'God'. I think you have no idea what this word means and that you simply use it to label some wishy-washy notion you have about the World.
    pandora wrote:
    Intelligent people are inquisitive and in search of experience.


    Intelligent people are also capable of explaining their ideas and beliefs and rationalizing them, instead of repetitively throwing out empty mantras such as 'live and let live and love' and hoping they'll stick.


    pandora wrote:
    Give the new thought a chance.

    The new thought? What new thought? Are you a female version of David Koresh?

    pandora wrote:
    Religion is on the way out... God is on the way in.

    it is a nonissue who believes and who doesn't
    unless you are intent on making it so.

    Believe what? Believe that you are the benefactor of some higher spiritual knowledge that us ignorant minions should aspire to achieve?

    Sorry, but I'm not convinced. The day when you can actually explain what you mean without reference to a bunch of silly platitudes is the day I may begin taking your comments seriously.
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    Brynzie you can not understand because you have not experienced God, it is that simple.
    Why do you keep trying to when you do not want to. If you did want to understand God
    you would go talk to Him,
    not me :?

    You think God is religion only, that is not even close.

    You do seem to like to put others down though, their beliefs, their feelings.

    That is not a good thing, you appear to be incapable of live and let live and love,
    probably why you can not understand the concept.
    But it explains itself.

    This thread was about morality and not needing God to be be good and moral.
    This I agree with but morality... doing the right thing and respecting others
    comes from caring about them, understanding them,
    and understanding their right to their own beliefs
    in other words live and let live and love.


    This thread was not about whether God exists and to whom until you made it so.
    Why is that so important to you?
    That appears to be a form insecurity to me.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    pandora wrote:
    hostis has stated that he or she is a non-believer
    but he or she possess the empathy and compassion, the emotional intelligence
    to understand believers.
    An example of different beliefs coming together in harmony.

    This a wonderful example of a PJ fan... and welcome! :D

    Because Pearl Jam fans are a generic breed? I've been posting on this board and reading fans comments and ideas for the past five years, and my understanding of a 'Pearl Jam fan' is that anyone can be a Pearl Jam fan - anyone.
    Being a Pearl Jam fan has nothing whatsoever to do with believers, non-believers, harmony, understanding, or any other quaint little notion you care to mention.
    The band strikes me as an intelligent bunch; Vedder especially. But that doesn't mean that every fan of theirs is also intelligent. There are also a bunch of morons out there who like this bands music. So what? It's music, first and foremost, and that's all well and good. And if there's something more to this band than just the music - i.e, ideas, political involvement, social activism, e.t.c, then that's just a bonus. But none of these things sums this band up, or any of it's members. They are five individuals, and collectively they and their music casts a wide a net. That's all.

    There's no such thing as a typical Pearl Jam fan, and therefore there's no such thing as a 'wonderful example of a Pearl Jam fan' either.

    Anyway, good luck with your messianic quest for world love and walking with God...or something.
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    Byrnzie wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    hostis has stated that he or she is a non-believer
    but he or she possess the empathy and compassion, the emotional intelligence
    to understand believers.
    An example of different beliefs coming together in harmony.

    This a wonderful example of a PJ fan... and welcome! :D

    Because Pearl Jam fans are a generic breed? I've been posting on this board and reading fans comments and ideas for the past five years, and my understanding of a 'Pearl Jam fan' is that anyone can be a Pearl Jam fan - anyone.
    Being a Pearl Jam fan has nothing whatsoever to do with believers, non-believers, harmony, understanding, or any other quaint little notion you care to mention.
    The band strikes me as an intelligent bunch; Vedder especially. But that doesn't mean that every fan of theirs is also intelligent. There are also a bunch of morons out there who like this bands music. So what? It's music, first and foremost, and that's all well and good. And if there's something more to this band than just the music - i.e, ideas, political involvement, social activism, e.t.c, then that's just a bonus. But none of these things sums this band up, or any of it's members. They are five individuals, and collectively they and their music casts a wide a net. That's all.

    There's no such thing as a typical Pearl Jam fan, and therefore there's no such thing as a 'wonderful example of a Pearl Jam fan' either.

    Anyway, good luck with your messianic quest for world love and walking with God...or something.
    I know Brynzie ... you must be the only smart one in the bunch ;)

    never said typical...you did...
    I said an example and from the loving, open minded, open hearted, fans I've met I stand by that.

    Don't forget about emotional intelligence this a clue when walking ones path

    and yes its about the music always and why I am here :D
  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    Morality Without God ? what are the risk's involved when accepting Morality With God ?
    what have you lost when accepting Morality With God ?

    Godfather.
  • Blockhead
    Blockhead Posts: 1,538
    byrnzie,
    I am a naturalist, if you don't know what that is look it up.
    But its people like you who give us atheist a bad name.
    Why don't you take the discussion to science/biology instead of regurgitating something you read.

    If people really believe that you need god for morality, what about all those people in poor undeveloped countries with no religion or knowledge of jesus/Christianity? are they amoral?
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    pandora wrote:
    You think God is religion only, that is not even close.

    Actually, it is pretty close:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God
    'God is the English name given to a singular being in theistic and deistic religions (and other belief systems) who is either the sole deity in monotheism, or a single deity in polytheism.'
    pandora wrote:
    You do seem to like to put others down though, their beliefs, their feelings.

    No, I just like people to be honest. I can smell bullshit from a long way off.


    pandora wrote:
    This thread was not about whether God exists and to whom until you made it so.

    Not quite true. This discussion has had very little to do with whether 'God' exists and everything to do with what you mean by 'God'. The fact that I'm asking you to explain what you mean when you use this word clearly makes you uncomfortable. And your only response so far has been to say that because I 'haven't experienced 'God' then I'm simply a lost soul, or just an ignoramous, or both.
    pandora wrote:
    Why is that so important to you?
    That appears to be a form insecurity to me.

    Using an abstract concept such as 'God' as a crutch appears to me to be a form of insecurity.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    pandora wrote:
    I know Brynzie ... you must be the only smart one in the bunch ;)

    Because that's what I said, or even implied?
  • hostis
    hostis Posts: 441
    as soon as ANYONE starts quoting from wikipedia, I'm out.

    Pandora. love ya! x

    Byrnzie. Its been an interesting topic. :)
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    You are a very hostile person Brynzie calling my heartfelt sincere words bullshit

    very telling... not only is the door closed it is nailed shut without a window

    shame on you...really

    no need to attempt to hurt others who do not agree with you.

    Things change Brynzie ... there are many believers without religion
    this you might want to consider instead of Wiki...
    entire new generations have and will give up religion but not God.

    If you think of God as crutch so be it ... I prefer a friend
    and I would even rather have a crutch than have a bolted closed door
    because I will let love and acceptance in.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Blockhead wrote:
    byrnzie,
    I am a naturalist, if you don't know what that is look it up.
    But its people like you who give us atheist a bad name.
    Why don't you take the discussion to science/biology instead of regurgitating something you read.

    Trust me, the day I need to reference something you mention is the day I'll get myself tested for dementia.

    Also, I'm not quite sure I fit into the category of 'us Atheists' considering that I'm far from rejecting all forms of spirituality in the name of some materialistic, or scientific perspective.

    Blockhead wrote:
    If people really believe that you need god for morality, what about all those people in poor undeveloped countries with no religion or knowledge of jesus/Christianity? are they amoral?

    According to the Missionaries they are.

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