My take...
Man created God in his image. This is why the God referred to in the Bible has human traits and can be kind of a dick at times.
The same goes for all of the ancient gods created by Man. Zeus, Odin and the other kings of the lesser gods are all made of human form and emotion. God, as a term, is used to explain away those things that occur in nature, that Man cannot explain.
Example: God does not take away your friend... if your friend dies in a boating accident. Your friend died because he was in a boating accident. God didn't kill him. When he is gone... he isn't in a better place... he isn't in Hell. We really don't know where he is... if he is except the fact that he is no longer here.
These were the same concepts that drove ancient Man to create God. Neolithic Man didn't know how the Sun worked... therefore, God must be involved. Same with natural occurances such as death, weather, stars and Earth.
...
Does this mean God does not exist?
No. It means that maybe Man just didn't get it right.
What makes men from 5,000 years ago closer to God than us in 2011? Why did God speak so clearly to them and doesn't say anything to us, today? Why do we live our modern lives based upon writings of stories that first appeared by Neolithic man? Why do we kill in God's name?
Answer, because Man created God in his image.
...
Personally... I believe God is nature. Nature is life... with life comes living and dying. We all know we are going to die. I am going to die as well as everyone here on this board and their kids and grandkids. That's just the nature of life.
With that knowledge in hand... we may better serve ourselves by just living life... the way God intended.
excellent post Cosmo. this sums up all my current beliefs on this subject.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Brynzie you can not understand because you have not experienced God, it is that simple.
Why do you keep trying to when you do not want to. If you did want to understand God
you would go talk to Him,
not me :?
That is not a good thing, you appear to be incapable of live and let live and love,
probably why you can not understand the concept.
But it explains itself..
this is the hypocritical notion that rubs people the wrong way. "live and let live, yet you don't know what you are talking about since you haven't opened your mind to my way of thinking".
how can you be so judgmental in saying he has not experienced god? how do you know that? he has never stated that to my knowledge. he is only challenging what you are saying because in most of these threads, pandora, with all due respect, you don't say much of anything. it's really just a bunch of mumbo hippie wishy washy jumbo. I agree, let's all love each other. but for some reason that's your answer to every single question posed to you.
you state he is incapable of love? who exactly do you think you are? you say he is nasty. take a look at what you are saying to him.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
He's challenging your beliefs, and you aren't really answering effectively. I understand your POV too here, but...
Jean you just said about people taking for granted what you have learned not to because of what you have experienced ... this in the other thread.
I quoted my beliefs... no one is going to understand God from what I say
or what you say or even what religion says
They must experience God for themselves. You must ask to talk to God and then you will learn.
You must intune to your emotional intelligence and one can not do that with a door bolted shut.
Not sure how much clearer I can be.
Open the door not to religion but to God.
Come on Pandora.I believe in God, but your words are too wishy-washy and preachy to convince anyone exactly why you believe or why they might want to. If you can't see this, try re-reading your posts. Try to stop with the accusations already about people being nasty, when it wasn't clear that they were. Be real. Treat others the way you'd want to be treated. Peace.
Come on Pandora.I believe in God, but your words are too wishy-washy and preachy to convince anyone exactly why you believe or why they might want to. If you can't see this, try re-reading your posts. Try to stop with the accusations already about people being nasty, when it wasn't clear that they were. Be real. Treat others the way you'd want to be treated. Peace.
I think God must be experienced by an individual you can not explain nor tell someone....
this my stance and belief.
I don't think that is wishy washy nor do I dismiss emotional intelligence,
an integral part of the experience.
One must be open to experiencing God.
That doesn't seem wishy washy that seems pretty clear to me
but maybe you can do better.
Maybe you can explain then to Brynzie better than I ...
tell him who God is or why you believe or why he might want to.
Preachy or arrogant are used to describe my words
when someone doesn't agree with what I'm saying, wise when they do. I'm neither.
I am passionate though Jean, and will remain so.
I think many here are rude and antagonistic when it comes to this particular interaction.
This I am glad I am not.
I took your advice and read through .... good idea
My first post pretty clear
I believe in God and try to live by the golden rule and not judge others...
this my religion
I don't think about who believes or who doesn't...
thats a non issue.
Treat everyone with the love and the respect they deserve as human beings.
replying to Brynzie
thats what you say thats not what I believe... but I see where you go with this.
A now famous young woman who's name I will not say,
most think she does not deserve love and respect....
I am angered too and fighting off hatred.
We were all children once, learning what we learned, helpless,
we were molded in the wrong ways.
But we can change.... she can change.
I feel everyone deserves understanding and love.
That might just make a difference in who they are
and perhaps over time they can earn respect.
replying to Brynzie Evil is your example ... I believe evil exists.
replying to Brynzie I don't think it is religious. I think Evil is a phenomenon.. just like God.
A power, I've felt it, like love and it guides just as love does.
No religion to it
but those who don't believe in God make it all about religion
because that is easier to shun, ridicule, dissect, understand ... instead of just feel.
When there are no religions there will still be the power that is God.
replying to Brynzie
Nothing complex is ever simple except when it comes to God's love.
I feel God is a guiding intelligent power based in love.
Unconditional love that we, as humans, have not yet achieved.
I know nothing of man made religions, they don't speak to me
but I respect those who find solace there and admire their commitment.
I know God and He is great and I am thankful to know him.
my post trying to get back to topic and reinforce my stance Back to the subject though
Of course there is good without God.
Of course people have morals without religion and some with religion have none.
It is as individual as the individual .. why we should not judge
and why we should live and let live and love.
replying to Brynzie
knew that was coming
I like that better than IT that is all
Joseph Goebbels I don't know him and post
He doesn't look very happy does he?
When I see people who have lived their life like this man
I wonder how and why he chose his ways.
As a small child was he without love?
Did he learn to hate?
Was he mentally ill?
Was he born evil or let evil in?
It's not up to me or you to forgive but we have an opportunity to learn.
my post on topic I do not think anyone needs God to be good with good morals
I did not need God to be good ... I have always been good.
I do not think that is what God necessarily does for a person.
I needed God to prove to me His existence because I needed to know.
I wanted to know my path to true happiness.
There are many self absorbed judgmental people who do not realize they are so.
Pick pick pick at others... forever negative, unhappy, unfulfilled.
They truly do not love others and really don't care to.
You don't need God to point this out but why do so many not see it or not care?
not see the lack of love for and the lack of acceptance of others.
We are all connected... your actions and choices affect mine,
we are one in the universe.
This is what having God can do for you if you are in need of it or want it.
You might see people and life in a very different light.
Having God with me has enriched my life
then to Brynzie because he doesn't know what I am on about...
To explain my post someone basically said the reason God is in people's lives is to make them good. For me that was not the case.
I was always good, conscientious and kind, generous, appreciative of others,
a good moral base without religion but by standards set in my home.
I understand logic and that is why I asked God to prove to me He was there.
I do not understand the lack of being, at the least, inquisitive.
How can you be so sure there is no God or do you despise and refuse to believe because you only associate God with what you see as ridiculous man made religion. So therefore you will not at least ask, as I did, to be shown there is a God.
If you had a miracle upon asking would you explain it away or believe?
You may be forced to believe when there is no explanation.
Which has been discussed at length here and until you live it you will try to dismiss it.
If there were no religions there would still be God.
Above all else, for me, it feels really good to believe and have God with me.
It is like walking with Love, this very different than before I knew Him.
replying to Brynzie
I don't think you should pick words apart so much.
Just feel but you choose not to feel what I am "on" about
The fact that you are unwilling and call it bs is very telling.
and again
No Bynzie its not just a word... I think it is to you, though.
I have posted what God is to me but you have chosen not to try and understand what He is to me and how He makes me feel or how He came to be in my life.
We all have choices.
making my point on accepting each other believers and non Is it moral to dismiss the beliefs of others and judge them for what they believe?
To ridicule the way they choose to live their lives,
even if that is based in a book written over 2000 years ago.
Is it moral to close the door on understanding.
I say not.
This going both ways, as always, and comes down to respecting others.
Live and let live and love.
Why must it be ...the religions of the world against the atheists... and vice versa... it gets old.
I don't think many would say you must have God to have morals,
but you have to accept others to have understanding which is the way to peace and love.
to Brynzie's challenge Confusing emotions with knowledge, no Byrnzie that I am not.
this post to show yes compassion and empathy are emotional reactions after Brynzie says they are not
stuck on the words again perhaps
"To show empathy is to identify with another's feelings. It is to emotionally put yourself in the place of another. The ability to empathize is directly dependent on your ability to feel your own feelings and identify them.
If you have never felt a certain feeling, it will be hard for you to understand how another person is feeling. This holds equally true for pleasure and pain. If, for example, you have never put your hand in a flame, you will not know the pain of fire. If you have not experienced sexual passion, you will not understand its power. Similarly, if you have never felt rebellious or defiant, you will not understand those feelings. Reading about a feeling and intellectually knowing about it is very different than actually experiencing it for yourself.
Among those with an equal level of innate emotional intelligence, the person who has actually experienced the widest range and variety of feelings -- the great depths of depression and the heights of fulfillment, for example, -- is the one who is most able to empathize with the greatest number of people from all walks of life. On the other hand, when we say that someone "can't relate" to other people, it is likely because they haven't experienced, acknowledged or accepted many feelings of their own.
I have experienced God.
this to you Jean
There should be only understanding and acceptance Jean...
live and let live and love.
One's basic beliefs should not be challenged yet time and again they are.
I do not care if someone believes or not but it seems some people do
and want to challenge and dismiss.
For me God has nothing to do with religion or theology.
If there were no religions God would still be with us.
Because He has not been found does not mean He is not here.
Someone said something about the world being flat ...
God is discovered, experienced one day by everyone
Those who are inquisitive can ask to be shown.
agreeing with another poster to reinforce my on topic view God has nothing to do with morality, I totally agree with that.
agreeing with my new friend Yes we should never chastise another for their beliefs. We should be open and loving...
the point I was making to Jean.
We all have our path we must walk, I respect the choices of others
and their beliefs and admire many and hope for the same respect.
Our very basic beliefs for those who are emotionally connected to themselves,
are in our core and do not change though when challenged.
My post about empathy pretty much sums it up... understanding comes from personal experience.
Until you experience something you may not understand
but we can still accept and embrace our differences with love and compassion.
replying to Brynzie reinforcing my stance on experience
I see Brynzie you have experienced bananas ....
making my point clearer.
My quote which perhaps you need to read again explains
how you may never understand God...
or me.
The next time you ask someone to explain who or what God is remember you will have to experience Him yourself to understand what and who He is.
"To show empathy is to identify with another's feelings. It is to emotionally put yourself in the place of another. The ability to empathize is directly dependent on your ability to feel your own feelings and identify them.
If you have never felt a certain feeling, it will be hard for you to understand how another person is feeling. This holds equally true for pleasure and pain. If, for example, you have never put your hand in a flame, you will not know the pain of fire. If you have not experienced sexual passion, you will not understand its power. Similarly, if you have never felt rebellious or defiant, you will not understand those feelings. Reading about a feeling and intellectually knowing about it is very different than actually experiencing it for yourself.
Among those with an equal level of innate emotional intelligence, the person who has actually experienced the widest range and variety of feelings -- the great depths of depression and the heights of fulfillment, for example, -- is the one who is most able to empathize with the greatest number of people from all walks of life. On the other hand, when we say that someone "can't relate" to other people, it is likely because they haven't experienced, acknowledged or accepted many feelings of their own.
what throws me is the fact you are not even curious about God..
Intelligent people are inquisitive and in search of experience.
Humans are evolving, learning new things everyday,
some growing in their capacity to empathize and show compassion.
There are those who are feeling the universe.
God is not necessarily the way there but trying to understand others is.
Give the new thought a chance.
Religion is on the way out... God is on the way in.
Above all else live and let live and love... we do not have to agree on our beliefs
just respect them, it is a nonissue who believes and who doesn't
unless you are intent on making it so.
replying to Brynzie... God is meaningless
Brynzie is just a word too
I believe your motives are not to learn and understand me, others or God ...
your door is closed.
hostis has stated that he or she is a non-believer
but he or she possess the empathy and compassion, the emotional intelligence
to understand believers.
An example of different beliefs coming together in harmony.
This a wonderful example of a PJ fan... and welcome!
back at ya new friend!
welcome Sir!
and thank you for your generosity
back to Brynzie's rude remarks
Brynzie you can not understand because you have not experienced God, it is that simple.
Why do you keep trying to when you do not want to. If you did want to understand God
you would go talk to Him,
not me
You think God is religion only, that is not even close.
You do seem to like to put others down though, their beliefs, their feelings.
That is not a good thing, you appear to be incapable of live and let live and love,
probably why you can not understand the concept.
But it explains itself.
This thread was about morality and not needing God to be be good and moral.
This I agree with but morality... doing the right thing and respecting others
comes from caring about them, understanding them,
and understanding their right to their own beliefs
in other words live and let live and love.
This thread was not about whether God exists and to whom until you made it so.
Why is that so important to you?
That appears to be a form insecurity to me.
important point to Brynzie I know Brynzie ... you must be the only smart one in the bunch
never said typical...you did...
I said an example and from the loving, open minded, open hearted, fans I've met I stand by that.
Don't forget about emotional intelligence this a clue when walking ones path
and yes its about the music always and why I am here
calling Brynzie out for being rude and hurtful
You are a very hostile person Brynzie calling my heartfelt sincere words bullshit
very telling... not only is the door closed it is nailed shut without a window
shame on you...really
no need to attempt to hurt others who do not agree with you.
Things change Brynzie ... there are many believers without religion
this you might want to consider instead of Wiki...
entire new generations have and will give up religion but not God.
If you think of God as crutch so be it ... I prefer a friend
and I would even rather have a crutch than have a bolted closed door
because I will let love and acceptance in.
letting Brynzie know how I feel abrasive hurts though ... why it is called that
we all take things serious
I take things to heart, that is how I am made.
the other posts were between you and I which brings us to now... I haven't written back to Dillion yet.
After reading through Jean, I stand behind everything I wrote.
I write from my heart and if someone thinks it is preachy don't listen ...
roll your fuckin eyes
one thing you can be sure with me though it is sincere and I respect other peoples beliefs.
Not trying to challenge an atheist, not trying to dismiss religion, just stating what I believe and no one need agree.
And I will continue to post my beliefs on the subject and if people understand great,
if not I am at peace with that to.
Brynzie you can not understand because you have not experienced God, it is that simple.
Why do you keep trying to when you do not want to. If you did want to understand God
you would go talk to Him,
not me :?
That is not a good thing, you appear to be incapable of live and let live and love,
probably why you can not understand the concept.
But it explains itself..
this is the hypocritical notion that rubs people the wrong way. "live and let live, yet you don't know what you are talking about since you haven't opened your mind to my way of thinking".
how can you be so judgmental in saying he has not experienced god? how do you know that? he has never stated that to my knowledge. he is only challenging what you are saying because in most of these threads, pandora, with all due respect, you don't say much of anything. it's really just a bunch of mumbo hippie wishy washy jumbo. I agree, let's all love each other. but for some reason that's your answer to every single question posed to you.
you state he is incapable of love? who exactly do you think you are? you say he is nasty. take a look at what you are saying to him.
You speak to me like you know me... you do not.
I was an atheist until I was 37, really closer to 40, so yes I understand non believing.
Do I know exactly what life experiences brought you to your beliefs?
no ... but it matters not to me what you believe,
this the point behind 'live and let live and love.'
I love many atheists, believing is a non issue for me
and the fact I believe is a non issue for them.
Remember we are not talking religion...
I am speaking of solely believing in a supreme being.
I do not have a religion.
God would still be God without religion.
Byrnzie never told me God was anything to him... do you think he is a believer?
I don't but perhaps I am wrong, I apologize and I'd love to hear his experience
if he would like to share.
I like hippies you don't?
Love is a perfect answer to every problem in this world including here on this board.
I did not say he was incapable of love I said he might be incapable of live and let live
but in one of the final exchanges he said 'to each their own' which is the same thing.
Not sure why he finally said that after all we went through though.
I did take a look at what I wrote as you saw and I did get a little heated at one point after he
said I was bullshit but I read through and do not think I was rude, I hope not I am really trying to work on that.. losing my cool.
Presumptions can also be offensive, something most all of do... even you.
Pandi I'm with you I am also a believer, kinda funny how most people on here post at will what they believe and then gang togeather to attack the one person on this thread who has only shown love for everybody on here
just because she believes in God so again I say "Morality Without God ?" to me it boils down to fear and pride,
people sometimes are to self important to believe there is a God but boy they sure believe in the frenzy that feeds the verbal blood lust during an attack on the Believer's in God in fear that they may be right.
Pandi I'm with you I am also a believer, kinda funny how most people on here post at will what they believe and then gang togeather to attack the one person on this thread who has only shown love for everybody on here
just because she believes in God so again I say "Morality Without God ?" to me it boils down to fear and pride,
people sometimes are to self important to believe there is a God but boy they sure believe in the frenzy that feeds the verbal blood lust during an attack on the Believer's in God in fear that they may be right.
Godfather.
you know how much I love your words Godfather and your way with them.
Your fearlessness with them, your way of being direct with them and also subtle,
your commitment to your beliefs, faith and those you love...
I so admire all that is you.
I know I have some friends out there but thank you Godfather
for not only being a friend but wielding your wonderful words on my behalf!
So very glad you are here
Pandi I'm with you I am also a believer, kinda funny how most people on here post at will what they believe and then gang togeather to attack the one person on this thread who has only shown love for everybody on here
just because she believes in God so again I say "Morality Without God ?" to me it boils down to fear and pride,
people sometimes are to self important to believe there is a God but boy they sure believe in the frenzy that feeds the verbal blood lust during an attack on the Believer's in God in fear that they may be right.
Godfather.
you know how much I love your words Godfather and your way with them.
Your fearlessness with them, your way of being direct with them and also subtle,
your commitment to your beliefs, faith and those you love...
I so admire all that is you.
I know I have some friends out there but thank you Godfather
for not only being a friend but wielding your wonderful words on my behalf!
So very glad you are here
as we say in the mototcycle world "love and respect" Pandi.
Pandi I'm with you I am also a believer, kinda funny how most people on here post at will what they believe and then gang togeather to attack the one person on this thread who has only shown love for everybody on here
just because she believes in God so again I say "Morality Without God ?" to me it boils down to fear and pride,
people sometimes are to self important to believe there is a God but boy they sure believe in the frenzy that feeds the verbal blood lust during an attack on the Believer's in God in fear that they may be right.
Godfather.
you know how much I love your words Godfather and your way with them.
Your fearlessness with them, your way of being direct with them and also subtle,
your commitment to your beliefs, faith and those you love...
I so admire all that is you.
I know I have some friends out there but thank you Godfather
for not only being a friend but wielding your wonderful words on my behalf!
So very glad you are here
as we say in the mototcycle world "love and respect" Pandi.
Godfather.
wouldn't the whole world be great if that was true... maybe someday
My take...
Man created God in his image. This is why the God referred to in the Bible has human traits and can be kind of a dick at times.
The same goes for all of the ancient gods created by Man. Zeus, Odin and the other kings of the lesser gods are all made of human form and emotion. God, as a term, is used to explain away those things that occur in nature, that Man cannot explain.
Example: God does not take away your friend... if your friend dies in a boating accident. Your friend died because he was in a boating accident. God didn't kill him. When he is gone... he isn't in a better place... he isn't in Hell. We really don't know where he is... if he is except the fact that he is no longer here.
These were the same concepts that drove ancient Man to create God. Neolithic Man didn't know how the Sun worked... therefore, God must be involved. Same with natural occurances such as death, weather, stars and Earth.
...
Does this mean God does not exist?
No. It means that maybe Man just didn't get it right.
What makes men from 5,000 years ago closer to God than us in 2011? Why did God speak so clearly to them and doesn't say anything to us, today? Why do we live our modern lives based upon writings of stories that first appeared by Neolithic man? Why do we kill in God's name?
Answer, because Man created God in his image.
The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind
by Princeton University psychologist Julian Jaynes
Houghton Mifflin/Mariner Books (1976, 2000)
That book looks interesting, I will check it out too Byrnzie, thanks..
Good Post Cosmo too.
This might sound hokey, but I just read a book by Anne Rice called Memnoch the Devil. It was about the Vampire Lestat meeting the Devil and the Devil being a charming mutherfucker. Memnoch tries to convince Lesteat to be his right hand man. I found this interesting because Lestat is an immortal vampire. Thats besides the point though. This book wasnt spectacular by any means but it made me really think about the DEvil. At the time she wrote it, I believe Anne rice was an atheist (not sure though)...She describes the Devil as this angel who just could bring himself to trust everything that God wanted. But in this story, God was fallible and not perfect. the Devil went on to 'pergatory' where his intentions were to escort the lost sould to Heaven, then he fell into Hell because the lost souls werent able to be helped, and his mistrust of God peaked.
It made me think about how whacky this story was and how Anne Rice obviously thought deeply about religion and the Devil to write this book. I think people used to ponder the devil more and more in history..but many of us have questioned why God would even allow such a Devil to tempt and exist, stealing away his sons and daughters, his creations. This concept is mind boggling when I conisder all that is wrong with the world and why many people must justify it. Why does the scorpion sting the frog? its in his nature I guess.
Anyways, even in the Memnoch the Devil fictional book, the devil seems to have morals. I could've been chosen to do his job.. Morals without religion is easy if you ask me. I think its harder for many of the extremely religious people I know to be moral and non-judgemental.
Come on Pandora.I believe in God, but your words are too wishy-washy and preachy to convince anyone exactly why you believe or why they might want to. If you can't see this, try re-reading your posts. Try to stop with the accusations already about people being nasty, when it wasn't clear that they were. Be real. Treat others the way you'd want to be treated. Peace.
I think God must be experienced by an individual you can not explain nor tell someone....
this my stance and belief.
I don't think that is wishy washy nor do I dismiss emotional intelligence,
an integral part of the experience.
One must be open to experiencing God.
That doesn't seem wishy washy that seems pretty clear to me,...
I didn't read most of this post Pandora. You can excuse yourself all you want, but I'm just trying to tell you how you act on here is a mix of hippy love, ego, judgement (like everyone else) and subtle accusation. Hey, I know I'm full of contradictions, but my mind is wide open to accept others and their beliefs. Who am I to judge others if they choose not to believe in God? or morality/ethics? You say "Live and Let Live" all the time, but you're not completely accepting. You aren't. If you are really all into God, don't just say it, mean it. Byrnzie is not all evil, as much as I don't know much about the guy, but I know he's not.
Come on Pandora.I believe in God, but your words are too wishy-washy and preachy to convince anyone exactly why you believe or why they might want to. If you can't see this, try re-reading your posts. Try to stop with the accusations already about people being nasty, when it wasn't clear that they were. Be real. Treat others the way you'd want to be treated. Peace.
I think God must be experienced by an individual you can not explain nor tell someone....
this my stance and belief.
I don't think that is wishy washy nor do I dismiss emotional intelligence,
an integral part of the experience.
One must be open to experiencing God.
That doesn't seem wishy washy that seems pretty clear to me,...
I didn't read most of this post Pandora. You can excuse yourself all you want, but I'm just trying to tell you how you act on here is a mix of hippy love, ego, judgement (like everyone else) and subtle accusation. Hey, I know I'm full of contradictions, but my mind is wide open to accept others and their beliefs. Who am I to judge others if they choose not to believe in God? or morality/ethics? You say "Live and Let Live" all the time, but you're not completely accepting. You aren't. If you are really all into God, don't just say it, mean it. Byrnzie is not all evil, as much as I don't know much about the guy, but I know he's not.
Pardon me ... I do not have to excuse myself ...
and it is you judging me or can you not see that Jean.
those were my posts from this thread... you told me to go read them ...
thought you might want to also.
What is going on with you?
I never said Byrnzie was evil what the heck? Where did that come from :? not reading I guess.
You know before you post this kind of attack you might want to really read what someone writes.
Again I, for the millionth time, do care not if someone believes in God or not.
I accept others and their beliefs
But you say you do but you're not accepting mine :wtf:
And quite frankly I do not care if I am perceived by you or anyone else
as " a mix of hippy love, ego, judgement and subtle accusation."
Thats really not so bad
considering what you are accusing me of and how much you are judging me,
sounds kind of similar.
Come on Pandora.I believe in God, but your words are too wishy-washy and preachy to convince anyone exactly why you believe or why they might want to. If you can't see this, try re-reading your posts. Try to stop with the accusations already about people being nasty, when it wasn't clear that they were. Be real. Treat others the way you'd want to be treated. Peace.
I think God must be experienced by an individual you can not explain nor tell someone....
this my stance and belief.
I don't think that is wishy washy nor do I dismiss emotional intelligence,
an integral part of the experience.
One must be open to experiencing God.
That doesn't seem wishy washy that seems pretty clear to me
but maybe you can do better.
Maybe you can explain then to Brynzie better than I ...
tell him who God is or why you believe or why he might want to.
Preachy or arrogant are used to describe my words
when someone doesn't agree with what I'm saying, wise when they do. I'm neither.
I am passionate though Jean, and will remain so.
I think many here are rude and antagonistic when it comes to this particular interaction.
This I am glad I am not.
I took your advice and read through .... good idea
My first post pretty clear
I believe in God and try to live by the golden rule and not judge others...
this my religion
I don't think about who believes or who doesn't...
thats a non issue.
Treat everyone with the love and the respect they deserve as human beings.
replying to Brynzie
thats what you say thats not what I believe... but I see where you go with this.
A now famous young woman who's name I will not say,
most think she does not deserve love and respect....
I am angered too and fighting off hatred.
We were all children once, learning what we learned, helpless,
we were molded in the wrong ways.
But we can change.... she can change.
I feel everyone deserves understanding and love.
That might just make a difference in who they are
and perhaps over time they can earn respect.
replying to Brynzie Evil is your example ... I believe evil exists.
replying to Brynzie I don't think it is religious. I think Evil is a phenomenon.. just like God.
A power, I've felt it, like love and it guides just as love does.
No religion to it
but those who don't believe in God make it all about religion
because that is easier to shun, ridicule, dissect, understand ... instead of just feel.
When there are no religions there will still be the power that is God.
replying to Brynzie
Nothing complex is ever simple except when it comes to God's love.
I feel God is a guiding intelligent power based in love.
Unconditional love that we, as humans, have not yet achieved.
I know nothing of man made religions, they don't speak to me
but I respect those who find solace there and admire their commitment.
I know God and He is great and I am thankful to know him.
my post trying to get back to topic and reinforce my stance Back to the subject though
Of course there is good without God.
Of course people have morals without religion and some with religion have none.
It is as individual as the individual .. why we should not judge
and why we should live and let live and love.
replying to Brynzie
knew that was coming
I like that better than IT that is all
Joseph Goebbels I don't know him and post
He doesn't look very happy does he?
When I see people who have lived their life like this man
I wonder how and why he chose his ways.
As a small child was he without love?
Did he learn to hate?
Was he mentally ill?
Was he born evil or let evil in?
It's not up to me or you to forgive but we have an opportunity to learn.
my post on topic I do not think anyone needs God to be good with good morals
I did not need God to be good ... I have always been good.
I do not think that is what God necessarily does for a person.
I needed God to prove to me His existence because I needed to know.
I wanted to know my path to true happiness.
There are many self absorbed judgmental people who do not realize they are so.
Pick pick pick at others... forever negative, unhappy, unfulfilled.
They truly do not love others and really don't care to.
You don't need God to point this out but why do so many not see it or not care?
not see the lack of love for and the lack of acceptance of others.
We are all connected... your actions and choices affect mine,
we are one in the universe.
This is what having God can do for you if you are in need of it or want it.
You might see people and life in a very different light.
Having God with me has enriched my life
then to Brynzie because he doesn't know what I am on about...
To explain my post someone basically said the reason God is in people's lives is to make them good. For me that was not the case.
I was always good, conscientious and kind, generous, appreciative of others,
a good moral base without religion but by standards set in my home.
I understand logic and that is why I asked God to prove to me He was there.
I do not understand the lack of being, at the least, inquisitive.
How can you be so sure there is no God or do you despise and refuse to believe because you only associate God with what you see as ridiculous man made religion. So therefore you will not at least ask, as I did, to be shown there is a God.
If you had a miracle upon asking would you explain it away or believe?
You may be forced to believe when there is no explanation.
Which has been discussed at length here and until you live it you will try to dismiss it.
If there were no religions there would still be God.
Above all else, for me, it feels really good to believe and have God with me.
It is like walking with Love, this very different than before I knew Him.
replying to Brynzie
I don't think you should pick words apart so much.
Just feel but you choose not to feel what I am "on" about
The fact that you are unwilling and call it bs is very telling.
and again
No Bynzie its not just a word... I think it is to you, though.
I have posted what God is to me but you have chosen not to try and understand what He is to me and how He makes me feel or how He came to be in my life.
We all have choices.
making my point on accepting each other believers and non Is it moral to dismiss the beliefs of others and judge them for what they believe?
To ridicule the way they choose to live their lives,
even if that is based in a book written over 2000 years ago.
Is it moral to close the door on understanding.
I say not.
This going both ways, as always, and comes down to respecting others.
Live and let live and love.
Why must it be ...the religions of the world against the atheists... and vice versa... it gets old.
I don't think many would say you must have God to have morals,
but you have to accept others to have understanding which is the way to peace and love.
to Brynzie's challenge Confusing emotions with knowledge, no Byrnzie that I am not.
this post to show yes compassion and empathy are emotional reactions after Brynzie says they are not
stuck on the words again perhaps
"To show empathy is to identify with another's feelings. It is to emotionally put yourself in the place of another. The ability to empathize is directly dependent on your ability to feel your own feelings and identify them.
If you have never felt a certain feeling, it will be hard for you to understand how another person is feeling. This holds equally true for pleasure and pain. If, for example, you have never put your hand in a flame, you will not know the pain of fire. If you have not experienced sexual passion, you will not understand its power. Similarly, if you have never felt rebellious or defiant, you will not understand those feelings. Reading about a feeling and intellectually knowing about it is very different than actually experiencing it for yourself.
Among those with an equal level of innate emotional intelligence, the person who has actually experienced the widest range and variety of feelings -- the great depths of depression and the heights of fulfillment, for example, -- is the one who is most able to empathize with the greatest number of people from all walks of life. On the other hand, when we say that someone "can't relate" to other people, it is likely because they haven't experienced, acknowledged or accepted many feelings of their own.
I have experienced God.
this to you Jean
There should be only understanding and acceptance Jean...
live and let live and love.
One's basic beliefs should not be challenged yet time and again they are.
I do not care if someone believes or not but it seems some people do
and want to challenge and dismiss.
For me God has nothing to do with religion or theology.
If there were no religions God would still be with us.
Because He has not been found does not mean He is not here.
Someone said something about the world being flat ...
God is discovered, experienced one day by everyone
Those who are inquisitive can ask to be shown.
agreeing with another poster to reinforce my on topic view God has nothing to do with morality, I totally agree with that.
agreeing with my new friend Yes we should never chastise another for their beliefs. We should be open and loving...
the point I was making to Jean.
We all have our path we must walk, I respect the choices of others
and their beliefs and admire many and hope for the same respect.
Our very basic beliefs for those who are emotionally connected to themselves,
are in our core and do not change though when challenged.
My post about empathy pretty much sums it up... understanding comes from personal experience.
Until you experience something you may not understand
but we can still accept and embrace our differences with love and compassion.
replying to Brynzie reinforcing my stance on experience
I see Brynzie you have experienced bananas ....
making my point clearer.
My quote which perhaps you need to read again explains
how you may never understand God...
or me.
The next time you ask someone to explain who or what God is remember you will have to experience Him yourself to understand what and who He is.
"To show empathy is to identify with another's feelings. It is to emotionally put yourself in the place of another. The ability to empathize is directly dependent on your ability to feel your own feelings and identify them.
If you have never felt a certain feeling, it will be hard for you to understand how another person is feeling. This holds equally true for pleasure and pain. If, for example, you have never put your hand in a flame, you will not know the pain of fire. If you have not experienced sexual passion, you will not understand its power. Similarly, if you have never felt rebellious or defiant, you will not understand those feelings. Reading about a feeling and intellectually knowing about it is very different than actually experiencing it for yourself.
Among those with an equal level of innate emotional intelligence, the person who has actually experienced the widest range and variety of feelings -- the great depths of depression and the heights of fulfillment, for example, -- is the one who is most able to empathize with the greatest number of people from all walks of life. On the other hand, when we say that someone "can't relate" to other people, it is likely because they haven't experienced, acknowledged or accepted many feelings of their own.
what throws me is the fact you are not even curious about God..
Intelligent people are inquisitive and in search of experience.
Humans are evolving, learning new things everyday,
some growing in their capacity to empathize and show compassion.
There are those who are feeling the universe.
God is not necessarily the way there but trying to understand others is.
Give the new thought a chance.
Religion is on the way out... God is on the way in.
Above all else live and let live and love... we do not have to agree on our beliefs
just respect them, it is a nonissue who believes and who doesn't
unless you are intent on making it so.
replying to Brynzie... God is meaningless
Brynzie is just a word too
I believe your motives are not to learn and understand me, others or God ...
your door is closed.
hostis has stated that he or she is a non-believer
but he or she possess the empathy and compassion, the emotional intelligence
to understand believers.
An example of different beliefs coming together in harmony.
This a wonderful example of a PJ fan... and welcome!
back at ya new friend!
welcome Sir!
and thank you for your generosity
back to Brynzie's rude remarks
Brynzie you can not understand because you have not experienced God, it is that simple.
Why do you keep trying to when you do not want to. If you did want to understand God
you would go talk to Him,
not me
You think God is religion only, that is not even close.
You do seem to like to put others down though, their beliefs, their feelings.
That is not a good thing, you appear to be incapable of live and let live and love,
probably why you can not understand the concept.
But it explains itself.
This thread was about morality and not needing God to be be good and moral.
This I agree with but morality... doing the right thing and respecting others
comes from caring about them, understanding them,
and understanding their right to their own beliefs
in other words live and let live and love.
This thread was not about whether God exists and to whom until you made it so.
Why is that so important to you?
That appears to be a form insecurity to me.
important point to Brynzie I know Brynzie ... you must be the only smart one in the bunch
never said typical...you did...
I said an example and from the loving, open minded, open hearted, fans I've met I stand by that.
Don't forget about emotional intelligence this a clue when walking ones path
and yes its about the music always and why I am here
calling Brynzie out for being rude and hurtful
You are a very hostile person Brynzie calling my heartfelt sincere words bullshit
very telling... not only is the door closed it is nailed shut without a window
shame on you...really
no need to attempt to hurt others who do not agree with you.
Things change Brynzie ... there are many believers without religion
this you might want to consider instead of Wiki...
entire new generations have and will give up religion but not God.
If you think of God as crutch so be it ... I prefer a friend
and I would even rather have a crutch than have a bolted closed door
because I will let love and acceptance in.
letting Brynzie know how I feel abrasive hurts though ... why it is called that
we all take things serious
I take things to heart, that is how I am made.
the other posts were between you and I which brings us to now... I haven't written back to Dillion yet.
After reading through Jean, I stand behind everything I wrote.
I write from my heart and if someone thinks it is preachy don't listen ...
roll your fuckin eyes
one thing you can be sure with me though it is sincere and I respect other peoples beliefs.
Not trying to challenge an atheist, not trying to dismiss religion, just stating what I believe and no one need agree.
And I will continue to post my beliefs on the subject and if people understand great,
if not I am at peace with that to.
I think God must be experienced by an individual you can not explain nor tell someone....
this my stance and belief.
I don't think that is wishy washy nor do I dismiss emotional intelligence,
an integral part of the experience.
One must be open to experiencing God.
That doesn't seem wishy washy that seems pretty clear to me,...
I didn't read most of this post Pandora. You can excuse yourself all you want, but I'm just trying to tell you how you act on here is a mix of hippy love, ego, judgement (like everyone else) and subtle accusation. Hey, I know I'm full of contradictions, but my mind is wide open to accept others and their beliefs. Who am I to judge others if they choose not to believe in God? or morality/ethics? You say "Live and Let Live" all the time, but you're not completely accepting. You aren't. If you are really all into God, don't just say it, mean it. Byrnzie is not all evil, as much as I don't know much about the guy, but I know he's not.
Pardon me ... I do not have to excuse myself ...
and it is you judging me or can you not see that Jean.
those were my posts from this thread... you told me to go read them ...
thought you might want to also.
What is going on with you?
I never said Byrnzie was evil what the heck? Where did that come from :? not reading I guess.
You know before you post this kind of attack you might want to really read what someone writes.
Again I, for the millionth time, do care not if someone believes in God or not.
I accept others and their beliefs
But you say you do but you're not accepting mine :wtf:
And quite frankly I do not care if I am perceived by you or anyone else
as " a mix of hippy love, ego, judgement and subtle accusation."
Thats really not so bad
considering what you are accusing me of and how much you are judging me,
sounds kind of similar.
Excuse me, Hostile is the word you used. You do care about others not believing in your God, or you wouldn't keep debating it. And hey, don't take the "ego and judging" comment so seriously. Everyone here does it, and frankly it's quite difficult to lose the ego and judgment calls on this forum. One thing I don't do here is let people get to me personally. I do poke, but that's my nature, and since I don't take things so personally, I wish others wouldn't either. However, I love a good argument.
I'm done, I usually don't enter religion/God debates because I really don't feel strongly enough about the topic. But I'd honestly LOVE to see an believer explain exactly how they know God exists well. Why don't I try and convince Byrnzie that God is real? Nah, it's a personal decision and not one I use to persuade others.
I was though, trying to show you your own words Pandi, and hoping you'd realize that the words you type aren't really explaining how God exists though. That's all. Sorry if you took it as an attack, because it wasn't. Have a good day.
Pardon me ... I do not have to excuse myself ...
and it is you judging me or can you not see that Jean.
those were my posts from this thread... you told me to go read them ...
thought you might want to also.
What is going on with you?
I never said Byrnzie was evil what the heck? Where did that come from :? not reading I guess.
You know before you post this kind of attack you might want to really read what someone writes.
b]Again I, for the millionth time, do care not if someone believes in God or not.
I accept others and their beliefs[/b]
But you say you do but you're not accepting mine :wtf:
And quite frankly I do not care if I am perceived by you or anyone else
as " a mix of hippy love, ego, judgement and subtle accusation."
Thats really not so bad
considering what you are accusing me of and how much you are judging me,
sounds kind of similar.
Excuse me, Hostile is the word you used. You do care about others not believing in your God, or you wouldn't keep debating it. And hey, don't take the "ego and judging" comment so seriously. Everyone here does it, and frankly it's quite difficult to lose the ego and judgment calls on this forum. One thing I don't do here is let people get to me personally. I do poke, but that's my nature, and since I don't take things so personally, I wish others wouldn't either. However, I love a good argument.
I'm done, I usually don't enter religion/God debates because I really don't feel strongly enough about the topic. But I'd honestly LOVE to see an believer explain exactly how they know God exists well. Why don't I try and convince Byrnzie that God is real? Nah, it's a personal decision and not one I use to persuade others.
I was though, trying to show you your own words Pandi, and hoping you'd realize that the words you type aren't really explaining how God exists though. That's all. Sorry if you took it as an attack, because it wasn't. Have a good day.
Yes hostile.. Byrnzie didn't think that was harsh enough ... far from evil... oops on your part.
I didn't take the ego or judging to heart... thought I laughed that off pretty good
Wasn't debating ... stated what I believe... if you would have read through you'd know that.
Not attempting to convince or change anyone.
Could care less and my core belief tells me I couldn't do that anyways because
I believe God must be experienced not explained nor taught.
If someone wants to know how God exists go ask Him.
And yes we agree then
you cannot persaude someone to believe no matter how much an atheist grills ya
little joke there
interesting that you say that......look back at your post about Byrnzie about him not understanding and all that....you speak about him like you know him. I said nothing about presuming to know you. I only spoke about the posts you make in this (and a previous) thread.
then you go about pulling your passive/aggressive stuff about "well you don't know God like I do, you don't understand" then turn around and say "I don't care what you believe" when someone asks you about it. It's laughable. if you want to make a point, stick with it.
And Godfather, no one is jumping on the "believer" because of what she believes, because, quite frankly, I have no idea what she believes. It's like talking to a barstool prophet. And you don't know what I believe, either. I am a believer, just not in the same context as you, but unfortunately, if I don't believe what you do, then I believe in nothing of substance apparently, and that's the problem.
I believe in a force, you can call it god if you wish, but I don't. There is no being that has the power to answer prayer, there is no being that created us in his image, and all that stuff. There is no being that I speak to in time of need.
Nature is my god. Mother Earth is my god. No white beard. No holy spirit or son. Just what we see. The wonder all around us.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,435
My father gave me a book when I was a teenager called YOUR GOD IS TOO SMALL by J.B. Phillips. The thing I remember about this book was Phillips' idea that as soon as you try to define God in human terms, you've made her/him/it too small. That really makes sense to me. I think of God as mystery. No mystery, no god. And my favorite reference for that mystery is the marvel of nature- for example, the fact that a teaspoon of productive soil generally contains between 100 million and 1 billion bacteria, all living beings.
Or this: the fact that thoughts are electrical impulses (consisting of those marvelous acytelcholine assited leaps across your synapses)- energy that eminates out from your brain and goes out into space and (assuming the theory of space curviture to be true) those thoughts will return here eons from now. I Suppose you could say that things like karma or heaven are really just thoughts. I try to remember as often as possible to think mostly good thoughts, be kind. A few million years from now, I'll be glad I did.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Or this: the fact that thoughts are electrical impulses (consisting of those marvelous acytelcholine assited leaps across your synapses)- energy that eminates out from your brain and goes out into space and (assuming the theory of space curviture to be true) those thoughts will return here eons from now. I Suppose you could say that things like karma or heaven are really just thoughts. I try to remember as often as possible to think mostly good thoughts, be kind. A few million years from now, I'll be glad I did.
you just blew my mind.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,435
Or this: the fact that thoughts are electrical impulses (consisting of those marvelous acytelcholine assited leaps across your synapses)- energy that eminates out from your brain and goes out into space and (assuming the theory of space curviture to be true) those thoughts will return here eons from now. I Suppose you could say that things like karma or heaven are really just thoughts. I try to remember as often as possible to think mostly good thoughts, be kind. A few million years from now, I'll be glad I did.
you just blew my mind.
Not to worry, it'll come back around again.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
interesting that you say that......look back at your post about Byrnzie about him not understanding and all that....you speak about him like you know him. I said nothing about presuming to know you. I only spoke about the posts you make in this (and a previous) thread.
then you go about pulling your passive/aggressive stuff about "well you don't know God like I do, you don't understand" then turn around and say "I don't care what you believe" when someone asks you about it. It's laughable. if you want to make a point, stick with it.
And Godfather, no one is jumping on the "believer" because of what she believes, because, quite frankly, I have no idea what she believes. It's like talking to a barstool prophet. And you don't know what I believe, either. I am a believer, just not in the same context as you, but unfortunately, if I don't believe what you do, then I believe in nothing of substance apparently, and that's the problem.
I believe in a force, you can call it god if you wish, but I don't. There is no being that has the power to answer prayer, there is no being that created us in his image, and all that stuff. There is no being that I speak to in time of need.
Nature is my god. Mother Earth is my god. No white beard. No holy spirit or son. Just what we see. The wonder all around us.
Even after I explained what I thought God was to me Byrnzie did not understand
actually he called it bullshit, that is how respectful of others beliefs he is.
You do speak to me like you know me because you assumed I could not understand your beliefs.
That is a presumption. And although you say in your post 'with all due respect' you are incredibly disrespectful and judgmental putting me and my beliefs down.
But I bet you do not see that.
All I have said when people have asked is and I'm not just throwing it out there or trying to convince anyone ... they ask
My basic belief...One must experience God for themselves... Go ask him who He is and what He is.
Why would you think I care about yours or anyone elses beliefs...
many seem to be interested in mine which I just don't get.
As I have said I have many people of all beliefs in my life that I love
and my basic belief would not allow me to change any of them even if I wanted to which I don't.
Your belief seems to go against religion
which I too believe God did, would, will, exist without religion
Some people believe strongly in their religion and that is a good thing, they need that,
I admire them and accept their beliefs and would not put them down for believing
in them.
Mother nature is the only thing I will miss when I leave this world
because that I can not take that with me.
Her beauty is only the here and now.
Love transcends all space and time though and is mine to keep on my path
as I journey on.
Barstool prophets.. do not dismiss them as you do hippies...
they just might be a friend someday and you may learn something from your experience with them.
And in my opinion... mine only ... which I am entitled to ...
your actions tell me you could be a kinder gentler soul.
This I derived from the way you treat me and others here.
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,435
"My basic belief...One must experience God for themselves... Go ask him who He is and what He is."
Pandora, I'm not sure I understand the concept of God as having a gender. Please see my post above re, J.B. Phillips' Your God is too Small.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Comments
excellent post Cosmo. this sums up all my current beliefs on this subject.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
this is the hypocritical notion that rubs people the wrong way. "live and let live, yet you don't know what you are talking about since you haven't opened your mind to my way of thinking".
how can you be so judgmental in saying he has not experienced god? how do you know that? he has never stated that to my knowledge. he is only challenging what you are saying because in most of these threads, pandora, with all due respect, you don't say much of anything. it's really just a bunch of mumbo hippie wishy washy jumbo. I agree, let's all love each other. but for some reason that's your answer to every single question posed to you.
you state he is incapable of love? who exactly do you think you are? you say he is nasty. take a look at what you are saying to him.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Come on Pandora.I believe in God, but your words are too wishy-washy and preachy to convince anyone exactly why you believe or why they might want to. If you can't see this, try re-reading your posts. Try to stop with the accusations already about people being nasty, when it wasn't clear that they were. Be real. Treat others the way you'd want to be treated. Peace.
this my stance and belief.
I don't think that is wishy washy nor do I dismiss emotional intelligence,
an integral part of the experience.
One must be open to experiencing God.
That doesn't seem wishy washy that seems pretty clear to me
but maybe you can do better.
Maybe you can explain then to Brynzie better than I ...
tell him who God is or why you believe or why he might want to.
Preachy or arrogant are used to describe my words
when someone doesn't agree with what I'm saying, wise when they do. I'm neither.
I am passionate though Jean, and will remain so.
I think many here are rude and antagonistic when it comes to this particular interaction.
This I am glad I am not.
I took your advice and read through .... good idea
My first post pretty clear
I believe in God and try to live by the golden rule and not judge others...
this my religion
I don't think about who believes or who doesn't...
thats a non issue.
Treat everyone with the love and the respect they deserve as human beings.
replying to Brynzie
thats what you say thats not what I believe... but I see where you go with this.
A now famous young woman who's name I will not say,
most think she does not deserve love and respect....
I am angered too and fighting off hatred.
We were all children once, learning what we learned, helpless,
we were molded in the wrong ways.
But we can change.... she can change.
I feel everyone deserves understanding and love.
That might just make a difference in who they are
and perhaps over time they can earn respect.
replying to Brynzie
Evil is your example ... I believe evil exists.
replying to Brynzie
I don't think it is religious. I think Evil is a phenomenon.. just like God.
A power, I've felt it, like love and it guides just as love does.
No religion to it
but those who don't believe in God make it all about religion
because that is easier to shun, ridicule, dissect, understand ... instead of just feel.
When there are no religions there will still be the power that is God.
replying to Brynzie
Nothing complex is ever simple except when it comes to God's love.
I feel God is a guiding intelligent power based in love.
Unconditional love that we, as humans, have not yet achieved.
I know nothing of man made religions, they don't speak to me
but I respect those who find solace there and admire their commitment.
I know God and He is great and I am thankful to know him.
my post trying to get back to topic and reinforce my stance
Back to the subject though
Of course there is good without God.
Of course people have morals without religion and some with religion have none.
It is as individual as the individual .. why we should not judge
and why we should live and let live and love.
replying to Brynzie
knew that was coming
I like that better than IT that is all
Joseph Goebbels I don't know him and post
He doesn't look very happy does he?
When I see people who have lived their life like this man
I wonder how and why he chose his ways.
As a small child was he without love?
Did he learn to hate?
Was he mentally ill?
Was he born evil or let evil in?
It's not up to me or you to forgive but we have an opportunity to learn.
my post on topic I do not think anyone needs God to be good with good morals
I did not need God to be good ... I have always been good.
I do not think that is what God necessarily does for a person.
I needed God to prove to me His existence because I needed to know.
I wanted to know my path to true happiness.
There are many self absorbed judgmental people who do not realize they are so.
Pick pick pick at others... forever negative, unhappy, unfulfilled.
They truly do not love others and really don't care to.
You don't need God to point this out but why do so many not see it or not care?
not see the lack of love for and the lack of acceptance of others.
We are all connected... your actions and choices affect mine,
we are one in the universe.
This is what having God can do for you if you are in need of it or want it.
You might see people and life in a very different light.
Having God with me has enriched my life
then to Brynzie because he doesn't know what I am on about...
To explain my post someone basically said the reason God is in people's lives is to make them good. For me that was not the case.
I was always good, conscientious and kind, generous, appreciative of others,
a good moral base without religion but by standards set in my home.
I understand logic and that is why I asked God to prove to me He was there.
I do not understand the lack of being, at the least, inquisitive.
How can you be so sure there is no God or do you despise and refuse to believe because you only associate God with what you see as ridiculous man made religion. So therefore you will not at least ask, as I did, to be shown there is a God.
If you had a miracle upon asking would you explain it away or believe?
You may be forced to believe when there is no explanation.
Which has been discussed at length here and until you live it you will try to dismiss it.
If there were no religions there would still be God.
Above all else, for me, it feels really good to believe and have God with me.
It is like walking with Love, this very different than before I knew Him.
replying to Brynzie
I don't think you should pick words apart so much.
Just feel but you choose not to feel what I am "on" about
The fact that you are unwilling and call it bs is very telling.
and again
No Bynzie its not just a word... I think it is to you, though.
I have posted what God is to me but you have chosen not to try and understand what He is to me and how He makes me feel or how He came to be in my life.
We all have choices.
making my point on accepting each other believers and non
Is it moral to dismiss the beliefs of others and judge them for what they believe?
To ridicule the way they choose to live their lives,
even if that is based in a book written over 2000 years ago.
Is it moral to close the door on understanding.
I say not.
This going both ways, as always, and comes down to respecting others.
Live and let live and love.
Why must it be ...the religions of the world against the atheists... and vice versa... it gets old.
I don't think many would say you must have God to have morals,
but you have to accept others to have understanding which is the way to peace and love.
to Brynzie's challenge
Confusing emotions with knowledge, no Byrnzie that I am not.
this post to show yes compassion and empathy are emotional reactions after Brynzie says they are not
stuck on the words again perhaps
"To show empathy is to identify with another's feelings. It is to emotionally put yourself in the place of another. The ability to empathize is directly dependent on your ability to feel your own feelings and identify them.
If you have never felt a certain feeling, it will be hard for you to understand how another person is feeling. This holds equally true for pleasure and pain. If, for example, you have never put your hand in a flame, you will not know the pain of fire. If you have not experienced sexual passion, you will not understand its power. Similarly, if you have never felt rebellious or defiant, you will not understand those feelings. Reading about a feeling and intellectually knowing about it is very different than actually experiencing it for yourself.
Among those with an equal level of innate emotional intelligence, the person who has actually experienced the widest range and variety of feelings -- the great depths of depression and the heights of fulfillment, for example, -- is the one who is most able to empathize with the greatest number of people from all walks of life. On the other hand, when we say that someone "can't relate" to other people, it is likely because they haven't experienced, acknowledged or accepted many feelings of their own.
I have experienced God.
this to you Jean
There should be only understanding and acceptance Jean...
live and let live and love.
One's basic beliefs should not be challenged yet time and again they are.
I do not care if someone believes or not but it seems some people do
and want to challenge and dismiss.
For me God has nothing to do with religion or theology.
If there were no religions God would still be with us.
Because He has not been found does not mean He is not here.
Someone said something about the world being flat ...
God is discovered, experienced one day by everyone
Those who are inquisitive can ask to be shown.
agreeing with another poster to reinforce my on topic view
God has nothing to do with morality, I totally agree with that.
agreeing with my new friend
Yes we should never chastise another for their beliefs. We should be open and loving...
the point I was making to Jean.
We all have our path we must walk, I respect the choices of others
and their beliefs and admire many and hope for the same respect.
Our very basic beliefs for those who are emotionally connected to themselves,
are in our core and do not change though when challenged.
My post about empathy pretty much sums it up... understanding comes from personal experience.
Until you experience something you may not understand
but we can still accept and embrace our differences with love and compassion.
replying to Brynzie reinforcing my stance on experience
I see Brynzie you have experienced bananas ....
making my point clearer.
My quote which perhaps you need to read again explains
how you may never understand God...
or me.
The next time you ask someone to explain who or what God is remember you will have to experience Him yourself to understand what and who He is.
"To show empathy is to identify with another's feelings. It is to emotionally put yourself in the place of another. The ability to empathize is directly dependent on your ability to feel your own feelings and identify them.
If you have never felt a certain feeling, it will be hard for you to understand how another person is feeling. This holds equally true for pleasure and pain. If, for example, you have never put your hand in a flame, you will not know the pain of fire. If you have not experienced sexual passion, you will not understand its power. Similarly, if you have never felt rebellious or defiant, you will not understand those feelings. Reading about a feeling and intellectually knowing about it is very different than actually experiencing it for yourself.
Among those with an equal level of innate emotional intelligence, the person who has actually experienced the widest range and variety of feelings -- the great depths of depression and the heights of fulfillment, for example, -- is the one who is most able to empathize with the greatest number of people from all walks of life. On the other hand, when we say that someone "can't relate" to other people, it is likely because they haven't experienced, acknowledged or accepted many feelings of their own.
what throws me is the fact you are not even curious about God..
Intelligent people are inquisitive and in search of experience.
Humans are evolving, learning new things everyday,
some growing in their capacity to empathize and show compassion.
There are those who are feeling the universe.
God is not necessarily the way there but trying to understand others is.
Give the new thought a chance.
Religion is on the way out... God is on the way in.
Above all else live and let live and love... we do not have to agree on our beliefs
just respect them, it is a nonissue who believes and who doesn't
unless you are intent on making it so.
replying to Brynzie... God is meaningless
Brynzie is just a word too
I believe your motives are not to learn and understand me, others or God ...
your door is closed.
hostis has stated that he or she is a non-believer
but he or she possess the empathy and compassion, the emotional intelligence
to understand believers.
An example of different beliefs coming together in harmony.
This a wonderful example of a PJ fan... and welcome!
back at ya new friend!
welcome Sir!
and thank you for your generosity
back to Brynzie's rude remarks
Brynzie you can not understand because you have not experienced God, it is that simple.
Why do you keep trying to when you do not want to. If you did want to understand God
you would go talk to Him,
not me
You think God is religion only, that is not even close.
You do seem to like to put others down though, their beliefs, their feelings.
That is not a good thing, you appear to be incapable of live and let live and love,
probably why you can not understand the concept.
But it explains itself.
This thread was about morality and not needing God to be be good and moral.
This I agree with but morality... doing the right thing and respecting others
comes from caring about them, understanding them,
and understanding their right to their own beliefs
in other words live and let live and love.
This thread was not about whether God exists and to whom until you made it so.
Why is that so important to you?
That appears to be a form insecurity to me.
important point to Brynzie
I know Brynzie ... you must be the only smart one in the bunch
never said typical...you did...
I said an example and from the loving, open minded, open hearted, fans I've met I stand by that.
Don't forget about emotional intelligence this a clue when walking ones path
and yes its about the music always and why I am here
calling Brynzie out for being rude and hurtful
You are a very hostile person Brynzie calling my heartfelt sincere words bullshit
very telling... not only is the door closed it is nailed shut without a window
shame on you...really
no need to attempt to hurt others who do not agree with you.
Things change Brynzie ... there are many believers without religion
this you might want to consider instead of Wiki...
entire new generations have and will give up religion but not God.
If you think of God as crutch so be it ... I prefer a friend
and I would even rather have a crutch than have a bolted closed door
because I will let love and acceptance in.
letting Brynzie know how I feel
abrasive hurts though ... why it is called that
we all take things serious
I take things to heart, that is how I am made.
the other posts were between you and I which brings us to now... I haven't written back to Dillion yet.
After reading through Jean, I stand behind everything I wrote.
I write from my heart and if someone thinks it is preachy don't listen ...
roll your fuckin eyes
one thing you can be sure with me though it is sincere and I respect other peoples beliefs.
Not trying to challenge an atheist, not trying to dismiss religion, just stating what I believe and no one need agree.
And I will continue to post my beliefs on the subject and if people understand great,
if not I am at peace with that to.
I was an atheist until I was 37, really closer to 40, so yes I understand non believing.
Do I know exactly what life experiences brought you to your beliefs?
no ... but it matters not to me what you believe,
this the point behind 'live and let live and love.'
I love many atheists, believing is a non issue for me
and the fact I believe is a non issue for them.
Remember we are not talking religion...
I am speaking of solely believing in a supreme being.
I do not have a religion.
God would still be God without religion.
Byrnzie never told me God was anything to him... do you think he is a believer?
I don't but perhaps I am wrong, I apologize and I'd love to hear his experience
if he would like to share.
I like hippies you don't?
Love is a perfect answer to every problem in this world including here on this board.
I did not say he was incapable of love I said he might be incapable of live and let live
but in one of the final exchanges he said 'to each their own' which is the same thing.
Not sure why he finally said that after all we went through though.
I did take a look at what I wrote as you saw
said I was bullshit but I read through and do not think I was rude, I hope not I am really trying to work on that.. losing my cool.
Presumptions can also be offensive, something most all of do... even you.
just because she believes in God so again I say "Morality Without God ?" to me it boils down to fear and pride,
people sometimes are to self important to believe there is a God but boy they sure believe in the frenzy that feeds the verbal blood lust during an attack on the Believer's in God in fear that they may be right.
Godfather.
Your fearlessness with them, your way of being direct with them and also subtle,
your commitment to your beliefs, faith and those you love...
I so admire all that is you.
I know I have some friends out there but thank you Godfather
for not only being a friend but wielding your wonderful words on my behalf!
So very glad you are here
as we say in the mototcycle world "love and respect" Pandi.
Godfather.
Godfather.
That book looks interesting, I will check it out too Byrnzie, thanks..
Good Post Cosmo too.
This might sound hokey, but I just read a book by Anne Rice called Memnoch the Devil. It was about the Vampire Lestat meeting the Devil and the Devil being a charming mutherfucker. Memnoch tries to convince Lesteat to be his right hand man. I found this interesting because Lestat is an immortal vampire. Thats besides the point though. This book wasnt spectacular by any means but it made me really think about the DEvil. At the time she wrote it, I believe Anne rice was an atheist (not sure though)...She describes the Devil as this angel who just could bring himself to trust everything that God wanted. But in this story, God was fallible and not perfect. the Devil went on to 'pergatory' where his intentions were to escort the lost sould to Heaven, then he fell into Hell because the lost souls werent able to be helped, and his mistrust of God peaked.
It made me think about how whacky this story was and how Anne Rice obviously thought deeply about religion and the Devil to write this book. I think people used to ponder the devil more and more in history..but many of us have questioned why God would even allow such a Devil to tempt and exist, stealing away his sons and daughters, his creations. This concept is mind boggling when I conisder all that is wrong with the world and why many people must justify it. Why does the scorpion sting the frog? its in his nature I guess.
Anyways, even in the Memnoch the Devil fictional book, the devil seems to have morals. I could've been chosen to do his job.. Morals without religion is easy if you ask me. I think its harder for many of the extremely religious people I know to be moral and non-judgemental.
That was a weird rant, sorry.
I didn't read most of this post Pandora. You can excuse yourself all you want, but I'm just trying to tell you how you act on here is a mix of hippy love, ego, judgement (like everyone else) and subtle accusation. Hey, I know I'm full of contradictions, but my mind is wide open to accept others and their beliefs. Who am I to judge others if they choose not to believe in God? or morality/ethics? You say "Live and Let Live" all the time, but you're not completely accepting. You aren't. If you are really all into God, don't just say it, mean it. Byrnzie is not all evil, as much as I don't know much about the guy, but I know he's not.
and it is you judging me or can you not see that Jean.
those were my posts from this thread... you told me to go read them ...
thought you might want to also.
What is going on with you?
I never said Byrnzie was evil what the heck? Where did that come from :? not reading I guess.
You know before you post this kind of attack you might want to really read what someone writes.
Again I, for the millionth time, do care not if someone believes in God or not.
I accept others and their beliefs
But you say you do but you're not accepting mine :wtf:
And quite frankly I do not care if I am perceived by you or anyone else
as " a mix of hippy love, ego, judgement and subtle accusation."
Thats really not so bad
considering what you are accusing me of and how much you are judging me,
sounds kind of similar.
I know you didn't take the time to read my posts on this thread but again
I look forward to you helping Byrnzie out so I can take notes for next time
whenever we can help each other out that is greatly appreciated , woman I have admired
from the past
Excuse me, Hostile is the word you used. You do care about others not believing in your God, or you wouldn't keep debating it. And hey, don't take the "ego and judging" comment so seriously. Everyone here does it, and frankly it's quite difficult to lose the ego and judgment calls on this forum. One thing I don't do here is let people get to me personally. I do poke, but that's my nature, and since I don't take things so personally, I wish others wouldn't either. However, I love a good argument.
I'm done, I usually don't enter religion/God debates because I really don't feel strongly enough about the topic. But I'd honestly LOVE to see an believer explain exactly how they know God exists well. Why don't I try and convince Byrnzie that God is real? Nah, it's a personal decision and not one I use to persuade others.
I was though, trying to show you your own words Pandi, and hoping you'd realize that the words you type aren't really explaining how God exists though. That's all. Sorry if you took it as an attack, because it wasn't. Have a good day.
I didn't take the ego or judging to heart... thought I laughed that off pretty good
Wasn't debating ... stated what I believe... if you would have read through you'd know that.
Not attempting to convince or change anyone.
Could care less and my core belief tells me I couldn't do that anyways because
I believe God must be experienced not explained nor taught.
If someone wants to know how God exists go ask Him.
And yes we agree then
you cannot persaude someone to believe no matter how much an atheist grills ya
little joke there
Have a great day too Jean
So there's hope for me yet then! :P
interesting that you say that......look back at your post about Byrnzie about him not understanding and all that....you speak about him like you know him. I said nothing about presuming to know you. I only spoke about the posts you make in this (and a previous) thread.
then you go about pulling your passive/aggressive stuff about "well you don't know God like I do, you don't understand" then turn around and say "I don't care what you believe" when someone asks you about it. It's laughable. if you want to make a point, stick with it.
And Godfather, no one is jumping on the "believer" because of what she believes, because, quite frankly, I have no idea what she believes. It's like talking to a barstool prophet. And you don't know what I believe, either. I am a believer, just not in the same context as you, but unfortunately, if I don't believe what you do, then I believe in nothing of substance apparently, and that's the problem.
I believe in a force, you can call it god if you wish, but I don't. There is no being that has the power to answer prayer, there is no being that created us in his image, and all that stuff. There is no being that I speak to in time of need.
Nature is my god. Mother Earth is my god. No white beard. No holy spirit or son. Just what we see. The wonder all around us.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Or this: the fact that thoughts are electrical impulses (consisting of those marvelous acytelcholine assited leaps across your synapses)- energy that eminates out from your brain and goes out into space and (assuming the theory of space curviture to be true) those thoughts will return here eons from now. I Suppose you could say that things like karma or heaven are really just thoughts. I try to remember as often as possible to think mostly good thoughts, be kind. A few million years from now, I'll be glad I did.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
This is closer to my own view of things, if anyone was wondering.
you just blew my mind.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Not to worry, it'll come back around again.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Way out in the water
see it swimming?
Your head will collapse if there's nothing in it...
That's why I keep stuffing my face with kung po chicken and ice-cream.
actually he called it bullshit, that is how respectful of others beliefs he is.
You do speak to me like you know me because you assumed I could not understand your beliefs.
That is a presumption. And although you say in your post 'with all due respect' you are incredibly disrespectful and judgmental putting me and my beliefs down.
But I bet you do not see that.
All I have said when people have asked is and I'm not just throwing it out there or trying to convince anyone ... they ask
My basic belief...One must experience God for themselves... Go ask him who He is and what He is.
Why would you think I care about yours or anyone elses beliefs...
many seem to be interested in mine which I just don't get.
As I have said I have many people of all beliefs in my life that I love
and my basic belief would not allow me to change any of them even if I wanted to which I don't.
Your belief seems to go against religion
which I too believe God did, would, will, exist without religion
Some people believe strongly in their religion and that is a good thing, they need that,
I admire them and accept their beliefs and would not put them down for believing
in them.
Mother nature is the only thing I will miss when I leave this world
because that I can not take that with me.
Her beauty is only the here and now.
Love transcends all space and time though and is mine to keep on my path
as I journey on.
Barstool prophets.. do not dismiss them as you do hippies...
they just might be a friend someday and you may learn something from your experience with them.
And in my opinion... mine only ... which I am entitled to ...
your actions tell me you could be a kinder gentler soul.
This I derived from the way you treat me and others here.
Pandora, I'm not sure I understand the concept of God as having a gender. Please see my post above re, J.B. Phillips' Your God is too Small.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"