lance steps down as chairman of livestrong and nike have finally dumped him ... will see where oakley is on this as they basically helped him lie by silencing a rep early on ...
lance steps down as chairman of livestrong and nike have finally dumped him ... will see where oakley is on this as they basically helped him lie by silencing a rep early on ...
Everyone's backing off. Eventually he'll have to own it, or he'll lose his mind.
Everyone's backing off. Eventually he'll have to own it, or he'll lose his mind.
we will see ... he is likely facing perjury charges ... and the fallout will be massive ... and really, the only question now is how far reaching this thing gets ...
will nike get exposed to bribing the UCI as is reported? ... will Oakley be found to have forced an employee to lie under oath? ... will the Omerta finally be smashed? ... and will the UCI admit their role in this?
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Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,134
Will Lance Armstrong's fall from grace larger than Tiger Woods? I would say Lance due to the fact Tiger is still playing and can get better to win while Lance has nothing else in his retirement but fall further into his self made abyss.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
why would he step down from livestrong? Even if you believe he's guilty, nearly everyone agrees that is the greatest thing he's ever been a part of. And thats the thing he has continually pointed to, and could point to, "you say i doped, but ive been raising hundreds of millions for cancer research". None of the other people accused of doping in other sports have similar situations. Its not like Bonds is raising money for any cause, and certainly not the gargantuan amounts Lance has. And just from a "good PR" point of view, if your whole MO is and has been "im innocent, ive been railroaded, and this is bigger than just 7 tour titles, this is about a disease that effects everyone". And clearly thats true, but why step down from that organization?
This move puzzles me. If he's innocent, why would you step down from an organization that clearly is important, and if guilty, doesnt he see how this move makes him look? And additionally if guilty, why not CONTINUE to do Livestrong? Livestrong has always been his saving grace. As I said, until the day he dies, people will wonder if he doped. But its indisputable the work he has done for cancer research and awareness and the importance he has been to cancer survivors and just everyday individuals.
I wonder, what would have been the fallout and response had Lance come out in 2001 or even 2005 and said "I doped"? Do you think by 2012 we would have forgiven him? Assuming he's guilty of course, I wonder if that course of action, would have been better for him. Same with Bonds or whoever.
Wow,
The fact there are still people who think this guy is innocent of cheating = blows my mind :roll: :roll: :roll:
Facts:
--> 26 witnesses have testified against him to the USADA...
-->11 former teammates have admitted to his not only doping, but to his elaborate plan to hide the fact he was doping
-->The USADA report last week detailed specific times, places, dates, people, doctors etc who KNEW who PARTICIPATED and who HELPED Lance (and others cheat the system)
-->Nike, not only severed a 16 yr realationship/sponsor ship with the guy, but is STRIPPING and CHANGING the name of the Lance Armstrong Fitness Center at its world headquarters in Beaverton, Ore.
-->He has been BANNED by his sport of cycling
-->The International Cycling Union is stripping Armstrong of EACH of his titles.
--> The USADA are going to make Armstrong return millions of dollars in cash prizes that he has won over the past 15 years
He's cheated on his wife (resulting in divorce), he's cheated on his girlfriends...He's cheated his sport...
How can people blindly believe he is innocent? How?
Again, all he had to do was fess up, admit and apologize. He refused. Ego and pride got in the way. Marcellus Wallace in 'Pulp Fiction' said: "Pride don't help, it only hurts".
Sad state of affairs around Lance. As someone who bought his books, wore the yellow Livestrong bracelet proudly, only watched the TDF because of him, I feel like a schmuck. He duped me like he duped millions of others.
The fact people still think this guy is innocent is beyond me...
I wonder, what would have been the fallout and response had Lance come out in 2001 or even 2005 and said "I doped"? Do you think by 2012 we would have forgiven him? Assuming he's guilty of course, I wonder if that course of action, would have been better for him. Same with Bonds or whoever.
At that time and with the atmosphere back then I would have forgiven him. The fallout would not have been that great.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I wonder, what would have been the fallout and response had Lance come out in 2001 or even 2005 and said "I doped"? Do you think by 2012 we would have forgiven him? Assuming he's guilty of course, I wonder if that course of action, would have been better for him. Same with Bonds or whoever.
At that time and with the atmosphere back then I would have forgiven him. The fallout would not have been that great.
Peace
this does seem to be a major problem, with Bonds, or Mcguire (who i like), Arod, and whoever else is they deny and then its only later they admit, if ever, that they doped. The dumbest ive ever heard was Palmiero saying "i never used steroids period" in front of Congress. And Bonds, the guy is a disgrace, everyone knows he doped but he'll probably go to his grave saying he is clean.
To me, Bonds has always been above and beyond evil in terms of these issues. Say what you want about Lance, but if he's guilty, I dont think he'd want kids who want to be the next Tour champ, to dope. I dont think thats what he wants or wanted. With Bonds, I sensed and still sense this "i dont care" attitude, that as long as he got his home run record nothing else matters. And I dont think Bonds gives one iota.
With people like Mcguire, I do think they have a profound sense of inner torment and guilt that eats them alive to this day, and thats sad.
With Lance, even if you think he's guilty, he has or had Livestrong and hundreds of millions raised for cancer research. thats an undeniable good thing. And that muddies the waters. He's not some guy who became fabulously wealthy and disappeared, he has done some amazing things in terms of cancer awareness.
And thats why the issue isnt black and white. What is his legacy? What has more weight?
I think often people are referred to as either good or bad. You cant be both. You often see that in portrayals and discussions of criminals, Charles Manson for example. But the guys views on a host of other issues is facinating and in my view correct. But the guys refered to as a murderer, a psychopath, a criminal, a lowlife etc... Could any interesting discussion ever occur when the deck is stacked, when you call someone a murderer, is anyone going to listen to any other thing you say?
I wonder, what would have been the fallout and response had Lance come out in 2001 or even 2005 and said "I doped"? Do you think by 2012 we would have forgiven him? Assuming he's guilty of course, I wonder if that course of action, would have been better for him. Same with Bonds or whoever.
At that time and with the atmosphere back then I would have forgiven him. The fallout would not have been that great.
Peace
Agreed^^^
Think about the cheats who apologized for a sec:
ARod
Petitte
Giambi
(all forgiven)
Think about the cheats who haven't manned up:
Clemens
Bonds
Rose
Nixon
McGuire
Sosa
(all fighting demons)
Lying to people who KNOW you are guilty insults peoples intelligence. People HATE having their intelligence insulted. Arrogance and one-uppers have few tolerant peeps on this planet.
Will Lance Armstrong's fall from grace larger than Tiger Woods? I would say Lance due to the fact Tiger is still playing and can get better to win while Lance has nothing else in his retirement but fall further into his self made abyss.
Peace
lance is the biggest fraud in american sports history ...
if he conned people, what did he con them into doing? donating money to a cancer awareness/research organization, and giving hope to cancer victims and their families? Its not like he bought a rolls royce off the donations or the fame and glory.
what bonds did was far worse. participating in the charade of "beating" hank aarons record and all the while knowing that you doped. thats gross.
and im also unsure how, if say you had cancer in 2004 and felt inspired and felt hope because of lance, how him being guilty chances any of that. It doesnt change it. Or if you were duped into donating to Livestrong by his story, is anyone really regretting donating? Isnt funding research and awareness good and worthwhile no matter who inspired you to donate?
He isnt being accused of funneling Livestrong funds to buy airplanes, or to fund trips to 5 star hotels. He isnt being accused of any of that.
And thats where its not easy to say he is this or that. He possibly lied and cheated, but he also has done an incredible amount for an important cause. Which outweighs the other? whats more important?
Will Lance Armstrong's fall from grace larger than Tiger Woods? I would say Lance due to the fact Tiger is still playing and can get better to win while Lance has nothing else in his retirement but fall further into his self made abyss.
Peace
lance is the biggest fraud in american sports history ...
more so than bonds? who "broke" the most important record in sports and went through the charade of the ceremony that day, when he "broke" the record? Having the guts to interact with Hank and act like he had actually beat his record? really?
What about the hundreds of other ball players who lied, and doped? Or Lance's teammates?
T)he foundation’s financial reports from 2009 and 2010 show that Livestrong’s resources pay for a very large amount of marketing and PR. During those years, the foundation raised $84 million and spent just over $60 million. (The rest went into a reserve of cash and assets that now tops $100 million.)
A surprising $4.2 million of that went straight to advertising, including large expenditures for banner ads and optimal search-engine placement. Outsourcing is the order of the day: $14 million of total spending, or more than 20 percent, went to outside consultants and professionals. That figure includes $2 million for construction, but much of the money went to independent organizations that actually run Livestrong programs. For example, Livestrong paid $1 million to a Boston–based public-health consulting firm to manage its campaigns in Mexico and South Africa against cancer stigma—the perception that cancer is contagious or invariably fatal.
Livestrong touts its stigma programs, but it spent more than triple that, $3.5 million in 2010 alone, for merchandise giveaways and order fulfillment. Curiously, on Livestrong’s tax return most of those merchandise costs were categorized as “program” expenses. CFO Greg Lee says donating the wristbands counts as a program because “it raises awareness.”
The guy is a fucking fraud...
And his foundation/charity is fucking horseshit too.....
Take me piece by piece..... Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
more so than bonds? who "broke" the most important record in sports and went through the charade of the ceremony that day, when he "broke" the record? Having the guts to interact with Hank and act like he had actually beat his record? really?
What about the hundreds of other ball players who lied, and doped? Or Lance's teammates?
dude ... do yourself a favour and read the evidence ... you are defending not only a fraud but a major douchebag ...
the man ruined people's lives ... people who had the courage to stand for something that we should all admire - integrity and truth ... supporting lance now simply because of livestrong is basically saying ... it's ok to cheat, it's ok to lie, it's ok to intimidate, it's ok to perjure yourself, it's ok to use power to fraud people ...
i feel sorry for all those people that believed in him ... because he is a phony ... and not only did he lie to sporting world ... he lied to kids and mothers and fathers so they would give him money ...
this guy is as powerful a celebrity as it gets ... he managed to have the case against him by the feds dropped ... for no reason whatsoever ...
i think people pick and choose though who they will support. for as clear as you seem to feel about it, i assume lance will still campaign for cancer research and awareness and people, millions of people will gladly donate. And the people who had cancer during his 7 wins, and found strength and courage in his example, how does that change now? it doesnt. He clearly inspired millions of people, without cancer and with, to stick to it, to persevere, to fight. That doesnt change in 2012.
Secondly, as I said, people pick and choose. there are millions of people who still cheer on Kobe, Tiger, Bonds, Michael Vick, etc... And thats just in sports. In politics, we not only fund peoples campaigns but we VOTE FOR THEM after stuff like this is revealed. There are people on this very board who do all that. And i do it too. But, lets be fair, are you against ALL users currently? Or do you look the other way for some athletes? SOMEBODY is buying tickets to see Kobe, or to see ARod hit a home run, or to watch Tiger win a major, or to see Michael Vick play. All are frauds and liars, some are cheats. In 2012, there are still many people who support Bonds. I remember when he "broke" the record, i was amazed, even then, how wrapped up people seemed to get in this farce, people wanting to be there when he broke hank's record. Why? Why would you be excited about that?
All im saying is Lance is different, because no one I know in any sport, who has been accused of doping, has had as huge an impact on people's belief systems, and has operated a charity of HUMONGOUS proportions.
If you had cancer in 2004, watched lance in Dodgeball and said "wow, this guy came back from the brink of death, and fought back", and that somehow was motivation for you to hope and pray and fight to stay alive, how in 2012, does that change? He was hope for alot of people, and thats something nothing can erase. He made cancer victims for a moment think "i can beat this, I dont have to die, I can fight this disease". Thats something that will never be taken away, whether or not we find out 100 plus teammates come out and say he doped
^^^^ I had/have cancer. Lance doesn't inspire me one little bit. never did.
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
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EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
I don't like the gut a little bit, I think he is a complete fraud and pretty much a scumbag. That said, he gave my old man hope when he had cancer the first time. To each their own. Everyone deals with things differently.
Regardless of steroids, what he accomplished is impressive
All im saying is Lance is different, because no one I know in any sport, who has been accused of doping, has had as huge an impact on people's belief systems, and has operated a charity of HUMONGOUS proportions.
but it was all based on lies ... all to support his ego and his image ... the guy has become a very powerful figure in the US and cycling community ... is it ok to justify his ruining of people's lives because he is affiliated with cancer!? ... in a way - lance exploited cancer to be who he is ... he took advantage of his illness to build his image and brand ... does it make it right!?? ...
it's like the guy can go and kick kittens around but because of his charity - it's ok ... a charity by which has served to build his brand more than anything ...
it's not a matter of picking and choosing ... it's a matter of basing an opinion on the facts ... something i think a lot of his current supporters refuse to do ... look at what he did as a cyclist, look at what he has done as a human being and look at what the charity has truly done ... it's all a fraud ...
Regardless of steroids, what he accomplished is impressive
i used to believe in lance ... then i figured he was doping and i figured he would have been the best anyways and that everyone doped ... but now, after reading all the evidence ... the reality is that lance would have been a good cyclist but he wouldn't have dominated like he did at the tour without artificial aid ... and by that i mean not only PED but money, power and influence ... dude had the best doctors and access to everything he needed in order for him to excel above his competitors ...
the guy was doping in triathalons too after he retired from pro cycling ... that's just fucked up ...
All im saying is Lance is different, because no one I know in any sport, who has been accused of doping, has had as huge an impact on people's belief systems, and has operated a charity of HUMONGOUS proportions.
but it was all based on lies ... all to support his ego and his image ... the guy has become a very powerful figure in the US and cycling community ... is it ok to justify his ruining of people's lives because he is affiliated with cancer!? ... in a way - lance exploited cancer to be who he is ... he took advantage of his illness to build his image and brand ... does it make it right!?? ...
it's like the guy can go and kick kittens around but because of his charity - it's ok ... a charity by which has served to build his brand more than anything ...
it's not a matter of picking and choosing ... it's a matter of basing an opinion on the facts ... something i think a lot of his current supporters refuse to do ... look at what he did as a cyclist, look at what he has done as a human being and look at what the charity has truly done ... it's all a fraud ...
You seem to have this view that anyone who doesnt see things YOUR way, is blind or ignorant. I think thats a naive view to have.
Second, of course its picking and choosing. I guarantee there are some people on this board who hate lance but cheer on Tiger or Michael Vick, or whoever. I know, because ive talked to people on this board who support those individuals. My understanding, and its borne out by the fact people will pay good money to see Kobe play ball this season, and will be cheering on Tiger, that people do pick and choose the "cheaters and liars" they support. You seem to have this view that lying and cheating is bad news. And I completely agree, but, clearly Kobe hasnt been ostracized because he raped a girl, and ARod doped and continues to be beloved and cheered on. Thats a double standard.
The point is to suggest things arent black and white like you seem to suggest they are. If they were black and white anyone, anywhere accused of lying and cheating would be a lepar and pariah.
The charity is brought up because Livestrong isnt some side project, its clearly become THE thing he has spent the most time and energy on, outside cycling. And its probably as well known as any other brand in the world. We all know the yellow bracelets and the logo. My point was, to my knowledge, no one else, in any sport, accused of doping or cheating has had a charity, or at least not of equal size and impact of Livestrong. Thats noteworthy, and I think it clearly plays into why people continue to support lance. Its unique among these cheating scandals.
If it was that simple, people would abandon him and shun him. He clearly wont be shunned. Livestrong will continue to rake in money for cancer awareness, and he will live out his days meeting people who feel he is a cheat, and others who support him.
The bond he "formed" with people because of his cancer and his battle to win out, isnt something that will just disappear, not even if 200 teammates said he used.
again ... for the xth time ... i'm pretty sure you haven't read the evidence against him and what he is being accused of ... it goes beyond doping ... and also again - i am sure you have not read the evidence that documents what his foundation does ... yeah - there's money going to people who could use it but there's a crap load that goes to other things that don't have to do with cancer ...
as for tiger or vick ... fuck those guys ... i could care less about them ... but at least they a) we're man enough to ADMIT their faults and b) have not perpetuated a LIE all these years ... and c) did not exploit something such as CANCER for their own personal benefit ...
it's not about calling people who disagree with me ignorant ... it's calling you ignorant because it is clear you haven't read any of the evidence ... and therefore your entire opinion is based on not knowing the evidence ... ignorance ...
Comments
not a lot of people have ...
here's a good link that compiles a lot of the articles being written now
http://www.steephill.tv/2012/usada-lanc ... ping-case/
Everyone's backing off. Eventually he'll have to own it, or he'll lose his mind.
we will see ... he is likely facing perjury charges ... and the fallout will be massive ... and really, the only question now is how far reaching this thing gets ...
will nike get exposed to bribing the UCI as is reported? ... will Oakley be found to have forced an employee to lie under oath? ... will the Omerta finally be smashed? ... and will the UCI admit their role in this?
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
This move puzzles me. If he's innocent, why would you step down from an organization that clearly is important, and if guilty, doesnt he see how this move makes him look? And additionally if guilty, why not CONTINUE to do Livestrong? Livestrong has always been his saving grace. As I said, until the day he dies, people will wonder if he doped. But its indisputable the work he has done for cancer research and awareness and the importance he has been to cancer survivors and just everyday individuals.
The fact there are still people who think this guy is innocent of cheating = blows my mind :roll: :roll: :roll:
Facts:
--> 26 witnesses have testified against him to the USADA...
-->11 former teammates have admitted to his not only doping, but to his elaborate plan to hide the fact he was doping
-->The USADA report last week detailed specific times, places, dates, people, doctors etc who KNEW who PARTICIPATED and who HELPED Lance (and others cheat the system)
-->Nike, not only severed a 16 yr realationship/sponsor ship with the guy, but is STRIPPING and CHANGING the name of the Lance Armstrong Fitness Center at its world headquarters in Beaverton, Ore.
-->He has been BANNED by his sport of cycling
-->The International Cycling Union is stripping Armstrong of EACH of his titles.
--> The USADA are going to make Armstrong return millions of dollars in cash prizes that he has won over the past 15 years
He's cheated on his wife (resulting in divorce), he's cheated on his girlfriends...He's cheated his sport...
How can people blindly believe he is innocent? How?
Again, all he had to do was fess up, admit and apologize. He refused. Ego and pride got in the way. Marcellus Wallace in 'Pulp Fiction' said: "Pride don't help, it only hurts".
Sad state of affairs around Lance. As someone who bought his books, wore the yellow Livestrong bracelet proudly, only watched the TDF because of him, I feel like a schmuck. He duped me like he duped millions of others.
The fact people still think this guy is innocent is beyond me...
7.9.03~9.28.04~10.1.05~5.12.06~5.13.06~5.27.06~5.28.06
8.5.08(EV)~10.9.09~5.21.10~6.20.11(EV)~7.5.11(EV)~7.9.11(EV)
11.21.13~8.27.16(EV)~11.14.16(TOTD)~4.13.20~9.27.20~9.26.21~10.2.21
2.15.22 (EV)~2.25.22 (EV)~2.27.22 (EV)~5.3.22~5.7.22~9.17.24~9.29.24
At that time and with the atmosphere back then I would have forgiven him. The fallout would not have been that great.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
this does seem to be a major problem, with Bonds, or Mcguire (who i like), Arod, and whoever else is they deny and then its only later they admit, if ever, that they doped. The dumbest ive ever heard was Palmiero saying "i never used steroids period" in front of Congress. And Bonds, the guy is a disgrace, everyone knows he doped but he'll probably go to his grave saying he is clean.
To me, Bonds has always been above and beyond evil in terms of these issues. Say what you want about Lance, but if he's guilty, I dont think he'd want kids who want to be the next Tour champ, to dope. I dont think thats what he wants or wanted. With Bonds, I sensed and still sense this "i dont care" attitude, that as long as he got his home run record nothing else matters. And I dont think Bonds gives one iota.
With people like Mcguire, I do think they have a profound sense of inner torment and guilt that eats them alive to this day, and thats sad.
With Lance, even if you think he's guilty, he has or had Livestrong and hundreds of millions raised for cancer research. thats an undeniable good thing. And that muddies the waters. He's not some guy who became fabulously wealthy and disappeared, he has done some amazing things in terms of cancer awareness.
And thats why the issue isnt black and white. What is his legacy? What has more weight?
I think often people are referred to as either good or bad. You cant be both. You often see that in portrayals and discussions of criminals, Charles Manson for example. But the guys views on a host of other issues is facinating and in my view correct. But the guys refered to as a murderer, a psychopath, a criminal, a lowlife etc... Could any interesting discussion ever occur when the deck is stacked, when you call someone a murderer, is anyone going to listen to any other thing you say?
Agreed^^^
Think about the cheats who apologized for a sec:
ARod
Petitte
Giambi
(all forgiven)
Think about the cheats who haven't manned up:
Clemens
Bonds
Rose
Nixon
McGuire
Sosa
(all fighting demons)
Lying to people who KNOW you are guilty insults peoples intelligence. People HATE having their intelligence insulted. Arrogance and one-uppers have few tolerant peeps on this planet.
7.9.03~9.28.04~10.1.05~5.12.06~5.13.06~5.27.06~5.28.06
8.5.08(EV)~10.9.09~5.21.10~6.20.11(EV)~7.5.11(EV)~7.9.11(EV)
11.21.13~8.27.16(EV)~11.14.16(TOTD)~4.13.20~9.27.20~9.26.21~10.2.21
2.15.22 (EV)~2.25.22 (EV)~2.27.22 (EV)~5.3.22~5.7.22~9.17.24~9.29.24
But I am supposed to forgive hin because he ran a charity?
Bullshit...
All the money he made on endorsements
All the money he profited from Nike
All the money he made biking...
Was all a FRAUD! Right?
But I am supposed to cut this guy a break because he ran a charity?
Bullshit...
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
lance is the biggest fraud in american sports history ...
if he conned people, what did he con them into doing? donating money to a cancer awareness/research organization, and giving hope to cancer victims and their families? Its not like he bought a rolls royce off the donations or the fame and glory.
what bonds did was far worse. participating in the charade of "beating" hank aarons record and all the while knowing that you doped. thats gross.
and im also unsure how, if say you had cancer in 2004 and felt inspired and felt hope because of lance, how him being guilty chances any of that. It doesnt change it. Or if you were duped into donating to Livestrong by his story, is anyone really regretting donating? Isnt funding research and awareness good and worthwhile no matter who inspired you to donate?
He isnt being accused of funneling Livestrong funds to buy airplanes, or to fund trips to 5 star hotels. He isnt being accused of any of that.
And thats where its not easy to say he is this or that. He possibly lied and cheated, but he also has done an incredible amount for an important cause. Which outweighs the other? whats more important?
more so than bonds? who "broke" the most important record in sports and went through the charade of the ceremony that day, when he "broke" the record? Having the guts to interact with Hank and act like he had actually beat his record? really?
What about the hundreds of other ball players who lied, and doped? Or Lance's teammates?
A surprising $4.2 million of that went straight to advertising, including large expenditures for banner ads and optimal search-engine placement. Outsourcing is the order of the day: $14 million of total spending, or more than 20 percent, went to outside consultants and professionals. That figure includes $2 million for construction, but much of the money went to independent organizations that actually run Livestrong programs. For example, Livestrong paid $1 million to a Boston–based public-health consulting firm to manage its campaigns in Mexico and South Africa against cancer stigma—the perception that cancer is contagious or invariably fatal.
Livestrong touts its stigma programs, but it spent more than triple that, $3.5 million in 2010 alone, for merchandise giveaways and order fulfillment. Curiously, on Livestrong’s tax return most of those merchandise costs were categorized as “program” expenses. CFO Greg Lee says donating the wristbands counts as a program because “it raises awareness.”
The guy is a fucking fraud...
And his foundation/charity is fucking horseshit too.....
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
The guy is a fucking fraud, and a cheat..
What makes you think his charity is legit?
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
and when you find out that a lot of money he raised went to things not really related to cancer - you'd be doubly pissed ...
we're not even talking about what this guy has done to people that pretty much makes him one of the biggest assholes around ...
people who still support him are delusional
dude ... do yourself a favour and read the evidence ... you are defending not only a fraud but a major douchebag ...
it basically spends nothing on cancer research ...
http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-ad ... l?page=all
It's such nonsense. Fucking cancer awareness. "Oh, what is this thing called cancer I keep hearing about?" Give me a fucking break. Fuck him.
Because it is so fucking typical when it comes to frauds...
First he lied..
Then he denied...
Then he threatened everyone else...
Then he screamed and yelled alot....
Again he threatened others....AGAIN!
And now he will dissapear....
Because that is what lying, thieving, pieces of shit do...
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
i feel sorry for all those people that believed in him ... because he is a phony ... and not only did he lie to sporting world ... he lied to kids and mothers and fathers so they would give him money ...
this guy is as powerful a celebrity as it gets ... he managed to have the case against him by the feds dropped ... for no reason whatsoever ...
Secondly, as I said, people pick and choose. there are millions of people who still cheer on Kobe, Tiger, Bonds, Michael Vick, etc... And thats just in sports. In politics, we not only fund peoples campaigns but we VOTE FOR THEM after stuff like this is revealed. There are people on this very board who do all that. And i do it too. But, lets be fair, are you against ALL users currently? Or do you look the other way for some athletes? SOMEBODY is buying tickets to see Kobe, or to see ARod hit a home run, or to watch Tiger win a major, or to see Michael Vick play. All are frauds and liars, some are cheats. In 2012, there are still many people who support Bonds. I remember when he "broke" the record, i was amazed, even then, how wrapped up people seemed to get in this farce, people wanting to be there when he broke hank's record. Why? Why would you be excited about that?
All im saying is Lance is different, because no one I know in any sport, who has been accused of doping, has had as huge an impact on people's belief systems, and has operated a charity of HUMONGOUS proportions.
If you had cancer in 2004, watched lance in Dodgeball and said "wow, this guy came back from the brink of death, and fought back", and that somehow was motivation for you to hope and pray and fight to stay alive, how in 2012, does that change? He was hope for alot of people, and thats something nothing can erase. He made cancer victims for a moment think "i can beat this, I dont have to die, I can fight this disease". Thats something that will never be taken away, whether or not we find out 100 plus teammates come out and say he doped
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Regardless of steroids, what he accomplished is impressive
but it was all based on lies ... all to support his ego and his image ... the guy has become a very powerful figure in the US and cycling community ... is it ok to justify his ruining of people's lives because he is affiliated with cancer!? ... in a way - lance exploited cancer to be who he is ... he took advantage of his illness to build his image and brand ... does it make it right!?? ...
it's like the guy can go and kick kittens around but because of his charity - it's ok ... a charity by which has served to build his brand more than anything ...
it's not a matter of picking and choosing ... it's a matter of basing an opinion on the facts ... something i think a lot of his current supporters refuse to do ... look at what he did as a cyclist, look at what he has done as a human being and look at what the charity has truly done ... it's all a fraud ...
this article has a good comparison ... http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sp ... _bros.html
i used to believe in lance ... then i figured he was doping and i figured he would have been the best anyways and that everyone doped ... but now, after reading all the evidence ... the reality is that lance would have been a good cyclist but he wouldn't have dominated like he did at the tour without artificial aid ... and by that i mean not only PED but money, power and influence ... dude had the best doctors and access to everything he needed in order for him to excel above his competitors ...
the guy was doping in triathalons too after he retired from pro cycling ... that's just fucked up ...
You seem to have this view that anyone who doesnt see things YOUR way, is blind or ignorant. I think thats a naive view to have.
Second, of course its picking and choosing. I guarantee there are some people on this board who hate lance but cheer on Tiger or Michael Vick, or whoever. I know, because ive talked to people on this board who support those individuals. My understanding, and its borne out by the fact people will pay good money to see Kobe play ball this season, and will be cheering on Tiger, that people do pick and choose the "cheaters and liars" they support. You seem to have this view that lying and cheating is bad news. And I completely agree, but, clearly Kobe hasnt been ostracized because he raped a girl, and ARod doped and continues to be beloved and cheered on. Thats a double standard.
The point is to suggest things arent black and white like you seem to suggest they are. If they were black and white anyone, anywhere accused of lying and cheating would be a lepar and pariah.
The charity is brought up because Livestrong isnt some side project, its clearly become THE thing he has spent the most time and energy on, outside cycling. And its probably as well known as any other brand in the world. We all know the yellow bracelets and the logo. My point was, to my knowledge, no one else, in any sport, accused of doping or cheating has had a charity, or at least not of equal size and impact of Livestrong. Thats noteworthy, and I think it clearly plays into why people continue to support lance. Its unique among these cheating scandals.
If it was that simple, people would abandon him and shun him. He clearly wont be shunned. Livestrong will continue to rake in money for cancer awareness, and he will live out his days meeting people who feel he is a cheat, and others who support him.
The bond he "formed" with people because of his cancer and his battle to win out, isnt something that will just disappear, not even if 200 teammates said he used.
as for tiger or vick ... fuck those guys ... i could care less about them ... but at least they a) we're man enough to ADMIT their faults and b) have not perpetuated a LIE all these years ... and c) did not exploit something such as CANCER for their own personal benefit ...
it's not about calling people who disagree with me ignorant ... it's calling you ignorant because it is clear you haven't read any of the evidence ... and therefore your entire opinion is based on not knowing the evidence ... ignorance ...