Lance Armstrong doping ?

Jason P

musicismylife78 wrote:

I also sort of find it odd, the USADA, which I assume is based in the US, is able to strip him of medals and wins won in a foreign country. Seems like it would be outside the US jurisdiction.

Yeah. Almost like someone had a vendetta against him ... and to be able to take titles away that you never awarded seems .... hey, wait a minute ...

:think:

:shock:

Does this mean I can strip Bill Belichek and the New England Patriots of their Super Bowl wins if I launch an investigation into Spy Gate???

:twisted:

mydogmookieblaylock

So Lance was the only one not doping, .....and he was way better than the people who were?

is it still cheating if everyone is doing it?

There is no way that he wasn't using performance enhancing supplements.

Wobbie

musicismylife78 wrote:

He hasnt stood trial, and he;s being stripped of all his wins. And banned for life. Seems like thats something that should be decided in a court of law, where he can defend himself in court. Thats not right, from a strictly ethical stance and in terms of american judicial law. You cant just do that.

he didn't stand trial.....but he basically plead "guilty"

Riverrunner

imalive wrote:

musicismylife78 wrote:

He hasnt stood trial, and he;s being stripped of all his wins. And banned for life. Seems like thats something that should be decided in a court of law, where he can defend himself in court. Thats not right, from a strictly ethical stance and in terms of american judicial law. You cant just do that.

he didn't stand trial.....but he basically plead "guilty"

He thought it was to his benefit to not try his case because he did not want the evidence to become public. He thought it would be better to accept the sanctions. That would allow him to talk about the unfairness of it all, how the process was unfair to him, and he never doped, and that he just was "tired of fighting." People will believe him. But it's not like he doesn't have the money, nor has he ever declined to fight anything before. But this time, he knew the evidence was overwhelming, and even the most stubborn defender would not be able to deny the truth.

Snakeduck

Jason P wrote:

Does this mean I can strip Bill Belichek and the New England Patriots of their Super Bowl wins if I launch an investigation into Spy Gate???

:twisted:

Please do. Their victory over the Rams was straight-up bullshit.

musicismylife78

imalive wrote:

musicismylife78 wrote:

He hasnt stood trial, and he;s being stripped of all his wins. And banned for life. Seems like thats something that should be decided in a court of law, where he can defend himself in court. Thats not right, from a strictly ethical stance and in terms of american judicial law. You cant just do that.

he didn't stand trial.....but he basically plead "guilty"

no he didnt. read his statement. thats the whole point of why this is sort of silly. This will be used as ammunition by the lance haters as he's guilty when really nothings changed. this is exactly what he's been claiming since day 1. And the lance supporters will say this is a non issue and that he hasnt admitted a thing. I think its split 50.50 on if he did it or not. But basing the idea of guilt or innocence based on the fact he isnt fighting the charges anymore is naive. Unless any of us have been in his shoes before, and i doubt anyone here has, you dont know how youd react in his situation. Not really sure why its being argued about frankly.

This will be debated about for decades to come. Nothing was resolved. People will continue to say he;s guilty and a doper and will continue to have people come forward, and then you will also have people saying he's innocent. Nothing was resolved.

Its a funny guilty plea indeed because he doesnt admit he's guilty, and in fact explicitly says otherwise in the letter, just like he has the last 2 trillion times he;s been asked or accused and about doping.

i think we all pick our battles. you see all the time celebrities suing magazines or websites for defamation. An then you see some celebrities ignoring it all, not suing anyone. I dont think either side is correct in that issue. Its all a matter of preference and knowing what you can handle. We have no way of knowing what its like to be that scrutinized and criticized or what it has done to his family.

redrock

musicismylife78 wrote:

I also sort of find it odd, the USADA, which I assume is based in the US, is able to strip him of medals and wins won in a foreign country. Seems like it would be outside the US jurisdiction.

There are questions about that. It would seem the International Cycling Union has proper jurisdiction in this case.

Also, I thought that he never failed a drugs test.

Hinn

Everything I've read in the last 48 hours says this guy is an utter twat

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-ad ... -Rats.html

http://98fm.com/2012/category-news-spor ... 2012-2408/

As for the part about this being all heresay based, that it's a bunch of doctors and tarnished/banned ex-teammates with a collective chip on their shoulders towards their former leader, that there is no hard evidence since being cleared on every test...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/la ... story.html

The results of them blood tests in 2009/10... not sure if they can't be presented now that LA has pleaded no contest to the case. If they can't, then LA's enough of an evil prick to realise this is the one thing that could've prevented a proper unequivocal public roasting.

goldrush

I believe Lance now owes Vince an apology...
http://youtu.be/jGtfpzT4Lqw

Seriously though, can someone clear something up for me? If Armstrong is stripped of his titles then who will be acknowledged as the 'winner' of each of the 7 Tours? If so many others are also guilty, how far down the field do you have to go to find the first 'clean' cyclist and will they now be awarded the win?

eddiec

goldrush wrote:

I believe Lance now owes Vince an apology...
http://youtu.be/jGtfpzT4Lqw

Seriously though, can someone clear something up for me? If Armstrong is stripped of his titles then who will be acknowledged as the 'winner' of each of the 7 Tours? If so many others are also guilty, how far down the field do you have to go to find the first 'clean' cyclist and will they now be awarded the win?

I believe there will be no winner for those years.

Wobbie

musicismylife78 wrote:

And as i said, steroid users are not treated the same. Clemons and Bonds have not been stripped of any of their records and stats, not has AROD been stripped of his home runs. Im all for cleaning sports up. Drug use in sports is horrible and clearly an important issue. But lets treat everyone who uses the same way. I personally think anyone who used should have their records and stats wiped away. They should be treated like Penn State was, any and all seasons they played should be wiped away and not recognized. Is Clemons treated that way? ARod?

like it or not, clemens and bonds went to trial and were acquitted (they only got bonds on one obstruction count)....a-fraud did something which, at the time, was not explicitly banned by baseball. the feds spent 8 years trying to get bonds and he beat them...even tho he was guilty. lance just knew he had NO SHOT due to the evidence against him....so he gave up.

I will say this....bonds was the best of a whole bunch of juicing players and lance was the best of a bunch of doping riders.

Dissidentman

I'm doping right now.

Wobbie

Dissidentman wrote:

I'm doping right now.

you and millions of others.

norm

Dissidentman wrote:

I'm doping right now.

being a dope is different than doing dope

Dissidentman

norm wrote:

Dissidentman wrote:

I'm doping right now.

being a dope is different than doing dope

Wait, huh?

norm

Dissidentman wrote:

norm wrote:

Dissidentman wrote:

I'm doping right now.

being a dope is different than doing dope

Wait, huh?

exactly

Hinn

goldrush wrote:

I believe Lance now owes Vince an apology...
http://youtu.be/jGtfpzT4Lqw

Seriously though, can someone clear something up for me? If Armstrong is stripped of his titles then who will be acknowledged as the 'winner' of each of the 7 Tours? If so many others are also guilty, how far down the field do you have to go to find the first 'clean' cyclist and will they now be awarded the win?

I have a feeling the evidence will also implicate UCI/ASO as being complicit in knowing about Lance and doing nothing to correct the wrong.

EIther way, I imagine those years will just have a big 'NOT AWARDED' asterisk next to the maillot jaune column

Riverrunner

Armstrong could have kept 5 titles if he had cooperated.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/usada-armstrong-could-have-retained-five-tour-wins


Armstrong tipped off as to impending drug tests:

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12726/AFLD-claims-Armstrong-was-regularly-tipped-off-about-tests.aspx

musicismylife78

part of the trouble with the whole doping issue in sports is it muddies the water. I was having a discussion and 2 people both argued griffey got caught using steroids, which is believe is untrue. I think all this ruins things for people like griffey, because i guess people assume now, all baseball players used, and no doubt a huge majority did, and that the issue is muddied enough to where names dont even matter, or specifics dont matter.

As far as i know griffey was never caught with steroids and his name has never appeared on anything connected to using.

As far as im concerned he's probably the greatest player of his generation, and is 4th all time on the homers list, with hank aaron as 1, babe as 2, and mays at 3.

I get the reason for being skeptical of all sports players now, but its sad for those who actually didnt use that their records and stats will ALWAYS be tainted because of people who cheated. Shouldnt be that way.

DewieCox

musicismylife78 wrote:

part of the trouble with the whole doping issue in sports is it muddies the water. I was having a discussion and 2 people both argued griffey got caught using steroids, which is believe is untrue. I think all this ruins things for people like griffey, because i guess people assume now, all baseball players used, and no doubt a huge majority did, and that the issue is muddied enough to where names dont even matter, or specifics dont matter.

As far as i know griffey was never caught with steroids and his name has never appeared on anything connected to using.

As far as im concerned he's probably the greatest player of his generation, and is 4th all time on the homers list, with hank aaron as 1, babe as 2, and mays at 3.

I get the reason for being skeptical of all sports players now, but its sad for those who actually didnt use that their records and stats will ALWAYS be tainted because of people who cheated. Shouldnt be that way.

I have mixed feelings about Griffey. He had tons of natural ability but the injury problems mid-late career seem pretty fishy, along with the all the other players that were putting up similar power numbers are all proven users. There's been no Mitchell reports or "Juiced"s that he's been connected with far as I know but there's certainly some circumstantial evidence against him.

There's not a better hitter from that generation than the Big Hurt and as a huge fan of his I'm proud to say there's absolutely no evidence that he was a juicer. Couldn't field to save his life, but he was a freak in the batters box.