Religious Beliefs

pandora

whygohome wrote:

I'm not going to put any faith into a fairy tale that is based upon the luck of where I was born.

http://www.wadsworth.com/religion_d/spe ... ap_01.html

cool map

Random_Wookie

redrock wrote:

Random_Wookie wrote:

As I can not see how someone can do something and mean it when there is an apparent reward for the actions, even if they have good and kind intentions..

Does one believing in an afterlife live their lives on earth with an ulterior motive (either subconsciously or deliberately) ... the carrot of the reward and/or the fear of the punishment?

Not sure the best way to answer that as it would depend on the rules for entering such an afterlife, and the only way for it not to affect your actions would be to allow everyone in there. But would that instance then change how you would approach this existence that you currently perceive? From my understanding of religion in general it rewards people for living there life as per their holy book, or at least try to justify there actions based on such thing.

phunkymunky

catefrances wrote:

dear wookie,

How can atheism be seen as a religion? As an atheist I am most curious about this .

re·li·gion [ri-lij-uhn] –noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
7. religions, Archaic . religious rites.
8. Archaic . strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one's

according to dictionary definition it can't, there are no rituals or practices involved in athiesm.

arq

To say Atheism is a religion is like say that not collecting stamps is a hobby!

Random_Wookie

My view on how atheism is a religion:

1) the belief in there being no supreme beings/deities
2) the universe was created by the big bang, not sure what happened before that point, there are no supreme beings or deities
3) is there not atheist organisations - which would be a grouping of people that believe point 1 or 2 (or have similar beliefs)
4) we enter the state of being an atheist, when we release that other religions are wrong/evil/load of crap etc
5) We look more to science to explain the mysteries of the universe
6) Atheism also breads fanatics such as richard dawkins

this is an overly simplistic statement will add more detail when I get time

Flutter Girl

EmBleve wrote:

Flutter Girl wrote:

I don't see why creationism and evolution can't co-exist. Personally I go by what I've been shown, not by what a priest or bible tells me. You gotta be stupid if you don't believe in evolution...but before the big bang, what was there? And how did it come to be?

:thumbup:

markin ball- I avoid that..about as much as I avoid thinking about pre-big bang days..makes my head hurt :(


on the topic of sneezing..I always say gesundheit or salud..both mean "good health," which is more appropriate, especially cos most of my friends are either not religious, or are Orthodox Jew...
Besides, don't you know? A fairy dies every time someone says thank you when you bless them from a sneeze...I don't wanna be a fairy murderer :?

arq

Random_Wookie wrote:

My view on how atheism is a religion:

1) the belief in there being no supreme beings/deities
2) the universe was created by the big bang, not sure what happened before that point, there are no supreme beings or deities
3) is there not atheist organisations - which would be a grouping of people that believe point 1 or 2 (or have similar beliefs)
4) we enter the state of being an atheist, when we release that other religions are wrong/evil/load of crap etc
5) We look more to science to explain the mysteries of the universe
6) Atheism also breads fanatics such as richard dawkins

this is an overly simplistic statement will add more detail when I get time

You haven't point something to back why atheism is a religion, also the big bang doesn't have anything to do with being an atheist.

Random_Wookie

arq wrote:

You haven't point something to back why atheism is a religion,

Religion in its most basic form is a system of beliefs and rituals, granted I can not think of any rituals at this point in regards (other than the path to becoming an atheist). The core belief of an atheist is the belief in the non existence of a supreme being/god, which is the negative of all other religions. Which in turn would in this simplest form make atheism a religion, but the difference after that is atheism does not tell you how to live your life and force you to perform rituals (unless you count try to make believers see the errors of their ways).

Hugh Freaking Dillon

Random_Wookie wrote:

arq wrote:

You haven't point something to back why atheism is a religion,

Religion in its most basic form is a system of beliefs and rituals, granted I can not think of any rituals at this point in regards (other than the path to becoming an atheist). The core belief of an atheist is the belief in the non existence of a supreme being/god, which is the negative of all other religions. Which in turn would in this simplest form make atheism a religion, but the difference after that is atheism does not tell you how to live your life and force you to perform rituals (unless you count try to make believers see the errors of their ways).

atheism is not a religion. it's the lackthereof. kinda like black isn't actually a colour. it's the absence of all light. atheists generally don't gather together and chant to no one, they don't read verses from a book that no one wrote, and they don't sing hymns they don't know the words to.

when someone asks me what I do for a living, I don't say "I'm a non-engineer".

EmBleve

Paul David wrote:

gather together and chant to no one, they don't read verses from a book that no one wrote, and they don't sing hymns they don't know the words to.

--so this is the definition of 'religion'?

Hugh Freaking Dillon

some people say just accept the love and move on. I say this:

music is my religion. I don't want to hear "music is not a religion". I could say the same thing about anything you believe in. so stop right there.

however, my wife isn't so much a music fan. the last cd she bought was probably about 15 years ago. if every time she was down, or had something bad happen in her life,I said "here honey" and put on a cd of Creed music, is she supposed to say "thank you for your message of love", or say "I don't like that, turn it off"? I'd say the latter. Does it make sense for me to say back to her "but this is how I express my love and condolences to you, so I'm keeping it on, deal with it and accept my gift of love".

Absolutely not.

And yes, it IS the same. and it's ridiculous. showing her love in the way that makes ME feel comfortable is SELFISH. Maybe I should do it in a way that consoles HER, not in a way that makes ME feel good about myself for doing it.

EmBleve

Flutter Girl wrote:

EmBleve wrote:

Flutter Girl wrote:

I don't see why creationism and evolution can't co-exist. Personally I go by what I've been shown, not by what a priest or bible tells me. You gotta be stupid if you don't believe in evolution...but before the big bang, what was there? And how did it come to be?

appropriate, especially cos most of my friends are either not religious, or are Orthodox Jew...
Besides, don't you know? A fairy dies every time someone says thank you when you bless them from a sneeze...I don't wanna be a fairy murderer :?

I did not know this. note to self..

Hugh Freaking Dillon

EmBleve wrote:

Paul David wrote:

gather together and chant to no one, they don't read verses from a book that no one wrote, and they don't sing hymns they don't know the words to.

--so this is the definition of 'religion'?

did I say it was? all I'm saying is that something can't be defined for what it isn't, something is defined for what it is.

EmBleve

Paul David wrote:

EmBleve wrote:

Paul David wrote:

gather together and chant to no one, they don't read verses from a book that no one wrote, and they don't sing hymns they don't know the words to.

--so this is the definition of 'religion'?

did I say it was? all I'm saying is that something can't be defined for what it isn't, something is defined for what it is.

Not directly, it was just implied.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

EmBleve wrote:

Not directly, it was just implied.

it was 3 small examples of what is done at church, spun in the other direction to make a point. holy moly.

EmBleve

Paul David wrote:

EmBleve wrote:

Not directly, it was just implied.

it was 3 small examples of what is done at church, spun in the other direction to make a point. holy moly.

relax, I just noticed it that's all. Sorry!! Yes, they are things done in a church. Batman and Robin.

JonnyPistachio

Paul David wrote:

some people say just accept the love and move on. I say this:

music is my religion. I don't want to hear "music is not a religion". I could say the same thing about anything you believe in. so stop right there.

however, my wife isn't so much a music fan. the last cd she bought was probably about 15 years ago. if every time she was down, or had something bad happen in her life,I said "here honey" and put on a cd of Creed music, is she supposed to say "thank you for your message of love", or say "I don't like that, turn it off"? I'd say the latter. Does it make sense for me to say back to her "but this is how I express my love and condolences to you, so I'm keeping it on, deal with it and accept my gift of love".

Absolutely not.

And yes, it IS the same. and it's ridiculous. showing her love in the way that makes ME feel comfortable is SELFISH. Maybe I should do it in a way that consoles HER, not in a way that makes ME feel good about myself for doing it.

:thumbup:

Its definitely a weird analogy, but it makes sense. We all talk about compromise, and this is it. Feeling out your audience, and doing what's best for a collective makes more sense to me.

but on a sidenote, you're going to hell for bringing Creed into a religious discussion.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

JonnyPistachio wrote:

but on a sidenote, you're going to hell for bringing Creed into a religious discussion.

well I couldn't in good conscience use a band I actually LIKED.

redrock

phunkymunky wrote:

catefrances wrote:

dear wookie,

How can atheism be seen as a religion? As an atheist I am most curious about this .

re·li·gion [ri-lij-uhn] –noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
7. religions, Archaic . religious rites.
8. Archaic . strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one's

according to dictionary definition it can't, there are no rituals or practices involved in athiesm.

Not sure about that. What about the highlighted bit of point 6? Assuming one really needs a specific definition.

Paul David wrote:

some people say just accept the love and move on. I say this:

music is my religion. I don't want to hear "music is not a religion". I could say the same thing about anything you believe in. so stop right there.

however, my wife isn't so much a music fan. the last cd she bought was probably about 15 years ago. if every time she was down, or had something bad happen in her life,I said "here honey" and put on a cd of Creed music, is she supposed to say "thank you for your message of love", or say "I don't like that, turn it off"? I'd say the latter. Does it make sense for me to say back to her "but this is how I express my love and condolences to you, so I'm keeping it on, deal with it and accept my gift of love".

Absolutely not.

And yes, it IS the same. and it's ridiculous. showing her love in the way that makes ME feel comfortable is SELFISH. Maybe I should do it in a way that consoles HER, not in a way that makes ME feel good about myself for doing it.

Agree - that's what I've been trying to say. Maybe I should have Creed as an example as people seem to agree on that!

redrock

Random_Wookie wrote:

redrock wrote:

Random_Wookie wrote:

As I can not see how someone can do something and mean it when there is an apparent reward for the actions, even if they have good and kind intentions..

Does one believing in an afterlife live their lives on earth with an ulterior motive (either subconsciously or deliberately) ... the carrot of the reward and/or the fear of the punishment?

Not sure the best way to answer that as it would depend on the rules for entering such an afterlife, and the only way for it not to affect your actions would be to allow everyone in there. But would that instance then change how you would approach this existence that you currently perceive? From my understanding of religion in general it rewards people for living there life as per their holy book, or at least try to justify there actions based on such thing.

It does for a number of people.