When I was a little boy I believed in God, faeries, Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.
Then one day I grew up.
I don't need the threat of some magic land of lava and pain called "hell" to keep me in line. The idea that you're constantly being watched by God and being judged... it's just a way to keep people scared. To control them.
interesting line
im of a similar thought
Religion seems to be based on the fastasy Ideals that people create to make life more meaningful and to give it purpose.
But behind all religion is money, and we know money always brings trouble.
I found it farsical that one of the last times i was in a church (a pre wedding service) the Vicar rambled on about the credit crunch and money worries of his flock. He told the handful of people who still turn up every week not to worry about money because jesus wouldnt let you suffer......and immediately after he stopped bleating on about people shouldnt worry about their mortgage he passed around the donation tray.
Seems some people need to believe in a 'god'....thats cool, thats their call, it helps them deal with pain I guess.
But the bible is a book full of hyprocrisy and confusion. and of course has a huge fictional content. In real terms its like the equivalent of a book written today becoming a new holy writing in 2000 years.
After all, I understand the bible was written what 100 years after Christ? how on earth do we know whats in it isnt total nonsense?
and Jesus? seriously if a guy came into your town in todays world and claimed to perform miracles would you honestly give him the time of day? I dare say he would be sectioned under the mental health act. david Copperfield's exploits being the only potential explanation.
And seriously, if your daughter popped home and claimed to be a virgin who was pregnant would anyone in the world believe her knowing what we know today? Science isnt always conclusive but it has taught us a lot.
That said I admire those with a faith, i see it makes them strong, and there is no harm in that. Sadly religion doesnt stop there.
Yet personally Im a i must see it or understand it to really believe it.
and really if God really did the Adam and Eve thing and created man in the 7 day creation period (he was on a roll that week), why on earth are we not finding fossilised humans with the dinasaurs.....fossils tell us Dinasaurs predated man by almost 30 million years, not 6days as would be suggested in Gods master week.
When I was a little boy I believed in God, faeries, Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.
Then one day I grew up.
I've always liked a particular bible quote that speaks nicely to that idea:
"When I was a child I spoke as a child I understood as a child I thought as a child; but when I became a man I put away childish things." I Cor. xiii. 11
I understand the bible was written what 100 years after Christ? how on earth do we know whats in it isnt total nonsense?
Not exactly. The Gospels were written in that timeframe, something like between 80-100 AD. But the Bible is a collection of distinct, separate books that were written over a period of maybe 1,000 years, mostly before Jesus, and only later (at least 400 years after Jesus) edited and compiled (quite a few times and quite a few different ways) into the Bible. That's one of the big reasons why it's so full of "confusion" & inconsistency. It's not, and never was, a single coherent text.
I'm reading a really intersting book at the moment called "Jesus for the Non-religious", written by a bishop (John Shelby Spong). He goes through the gospels with a fine-toothed comb & puts them very much in the context of their times (which is something that those who take the bible literally tend to miss entirely) & he ends up in pretty much the same position as you, pdalowsky.
I find that many of the points he makes really confirm my own atheism, and yet he still finds a way to confirm his own belief - so just for that alone, I'd recommend it to everyone on this thread (religious & non-). If you're interested enough in this subject to be in this thread, you're probably likely to find it a pretty fascinating read.
93: Slane
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
Cynicism can close our eyes and minds to the possibilities
then we will not see nor understand nor believe
I believe in positive thought, I believe in miracles
and I believe in the possibilities
without wishing to become embroiled in a personal debate on this, I read this as saying: -
questionning what appears fiction with a common sense approach will close the door to a world of fantasy
you read my words as that? no...
I think perhaps you mean this is a positive way to look at your post...
I would agree
you put a positive spin on your original post
but
key word here is appears this means it is not fact .... it is a judgement
questioning is not cynical...nor comes with predisposed answers
one must stay objective and positive and in need of an answer
When I was a little boy I believed in God, faeries, Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.
Then one day I grew up.
I've always liked a particular bible quote that speaks nicely to that idea:
"When I was a child I spoke as a child I understood as a child I thought as a child; but when I became a man I put away childish things." I Cor. xiii. 11
I understand the bible was written what 100 years after Christ? how on earth do we know whats in it isnt total nonsense?
Not exactly. The Gospels were written in that timeframe, something like between 80-100 AD. But the Bible is a collection of distinct, separate books that were written over a period of maybe 1,000 years, mostly before Jesus, and only later (at least 400 years after Jesus) edited and compiled (quite a few times and quite a few different ways) into the Bible. That's one of the big reasons why it's so full of "confusion" & inconsistency. It's not, and never was, a single coherent text.
I'm reading a really intersting book at the moment called "Jesus for the Non-religious", written by a bishop (John Shelby Spong). He goes through the gospels with a fine-toothed comb & puts them very much in the context of their times (which is something that those who take the bible literally tend to miss entirely) & he ends up in pretty much the same position as you, pdalowsky.
I find that many of the points he makes really confirm my own atheism, and yet he still finds a way to confirm his own belief - so just for that alone, I'd recommend it to everyone on this thread (religious & non-). If you're interested enough in this subject to be in this thread, you're probably likely to find it a pretty fascinating read.
thank you for this post and your understanding ways that I always see in you.
I will hunt the book down it sounds very interesting
oh but I will never put away childish things as they speak to my heart
thank you for this post and your understanding ways that I always see in you.
Aw shucks. Wasn't expecting a compliment. :oops:
93: Slane
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
Cynicism can close our eyes and minds to the possibilities
then we will not see nor understand nor believe
I believe in positive thought, I believe in miracles
and I believe in the possibilities
without wishing to become embroiled in a personal debate on this, I read this as saying: -
questionning what appears fiction with a common sense approach will close the door to a world of fantasy
you read my words as that? no...
I think perhaps you mean this is a positive way to look at your post...
I would agree
you put a positive spin on your original post
but
key word here is appears this means it is not fact .... it is a judgement
questioning is not cynical...nor comes with predisposed answers
one must stay objective and positive and in need of an answer
purely open to receive
oh cool, so in my original post i wasnt being cynical...merely inquisitive?
oh cool, so in my original post i wasnt being cynical...merely inquisitive?
well my original post, it wasn't solely directed at you... my words...
they were general
but your post did sound a teeny bit cynical or skeptical is maybe the better word
sorry...I don't want to offend.
Just sounded a little negative...
kind of like if a miracle dropped in your lap.. you would think it trickery
or if Jesus walked the Earth you had already decided you wouldn't believe
maybe even if you could see it and understand it.
Cynicism can close our eyes and minds to the possibilities
then we will not see nor understand nor believe
I believe in positive thought, I believe in miracles
and I believe in the possibilities
without wishing to become embroiled in a personal debate on this, I read this as saying: -
questionning what appears fiction with a common sense approach will close the door to a world of fantasy
You are now embroiled. Have you not been reading this thread? It's not something you want to be embroiled in with her. She talks in circles. I'm dizzy just thinking about it.
PS I liked your post. A friend of mine went to a baptism last week. She said the sermon was all about how if you don't baptize your child then they will go to hell. That is disgusting in my eyes. And then someone went around with the collection plate and apparently some big bouncer looking guy hoovered over the flock giving everyone dirty looks as the collection plate went by. How do people believe in this shit??!!
Cynicism can close our eyes and minds to the possibilities
then we will not see nor understand nor believe
I believe in positive thought, I believe in miracles
and I believe in the possibilities
without wishing to become embroiled in a personal debate on this, I read this as saying: -
questionning what appears fiction with a common sense approach will close the door to a world of fantasy
You are now embroiled. Have you not been reading this thread? It's not something you want to be embroiled in with her. She talks in circles. I'm dizzy just thinking about it.
PS I liked your post. A friend of mine went to a baptism last week. She said the sermon was all about how if you don't baptize your child then they will go to hell. That is disgusting in my eyes. And then someone went around with the collection plate and apparently some big bouncer looking guy hoovered over the flock giving everyone dirty looks as the collection plate went by. How do people believe in this shit??!!
sorry I make you dizzy
embroiled...don't hear that much
I've never been baptized and I agree with you as far as that subject goes.
although you are only looking at the negative, there are good things about religion and church but if you can not see them I guess they don't exist
I don't follow a religion or go to church but believe in a supreme being,
I believe in working towards unconditional love for all humanity.
not much of a circle really... pretty much straight forward
Cynicism can close our eyes and minds to the possibilities
then we will not see nor understand nor believe
I believe in positive thought, I believe in miracles
and I believe in the possibilities
without wishing to become embroiled in a personal debate on this, I read this as saying: -
questionning what appears fiction with a common sense approach will close the door to a world of fantasy
You are now embroiled. Have you not been reading this thread? It's not something you want to be embroiled in with her. She talks in circles. I'm dizzy just thinking about it.
PS I liked your post. A friend of mine went to a baptism last week. She said the sermon was all about how if you don't baptize your child then they will go to hell. That is disgusting in my eyes. And then someone went around with the collection plate and apparently some big bouncer looking guy hoovered over the flock giving everyone dirty looks as the collection plate went by. How do people believe in this shit??!!
Im getting out of here !!
fair to say you and i are very much on the same page.
and you are right Pandora always deals with these things in the nicest way possible. My full respect there.
You are now embroiled. Have you not been reading this thread? It's not something you want to be embroiled in with her. She talks in circles. I'm dizzy just thinking about it.
PS I liked your post. A friend of mine went to a baptism last week. She said the sermon was all about how if you don't baptize your child then they will go to hell. That is disgusting in my eyes. And then someone went around with the collection plate and apparently some big bouncer looking guy hoovered over the flock giving everyone dirty looks as the collection plate went by. How do people believe in this shit??!!
Im getting out of here !!
fair to say you and i are very much on the same page.
and you are right Pandora always deals with these things in the nicest way possible. My full respect there.
I dont always follow it but thats that
Your avatar is precious... always makes me smile and brings light to my day
glad it's here and glad you are too
thank you both for attempting to understand...
that means a lot to this crazy old lady and to this crazy ass world
There is no proof, scientific, or otherwise, of how everything came into existence. I love science and know evolution is what formed us. I'm talking about the very very beginning. Perhaps even before the universe formed. Something still heavily debated by scientists.
Until we know how existence, itself, came into being, then absolutely noone can say for fact that there is no God. Who are any of us to tell someone else what they believe is wrong? Or to mock it, as a couple people did my beliefs on this thread?
All it does is lead to tearing each other down.
When the Good Lord was creating mothers, He was into His sixth day of "overtime" when the angel appeared and said. "You're doing a lot of fiddling around on this one."
And God said, "Have you read the specs on this order?" She has to be completely washable, but not plastic. Have 180 moveable parts...all replaceable. Run on black coffee and leftovers. Have a lap that disappears when she stands up. A kiss that can cure anything from a broken leg to a disappointed love affair. And six pairs of hands."
The angel shook her head slowly and said. "Six pairs of hands.... no way."
It's not the hands that are causing me problems," God remarked, "it's the three pairs of eyes that mothers have to have."
That's on the standard model?" asked the angel. God nodded.
One pair that sees through closed doors when she asks, 'What are you kids doing in there?' when she already knows. Another here in the back of her head that sees what she shouldn't but what she has to know, and of course the ones here in front that can look at a child when he goofs up and say. 'I understand and I love you' without so much as uttering a word."
God," said the angel touching his sleeve gently, "Get some rest tomorrow...."
I can't," said God, "I'm so close to creating something so close to myself. Already I have one who heals herself when she is sick...can feed a family of six on one pound of hamburger...and can get a nine year old to stand under a shower."
The angel circled the model of a mother very slowly. "It's too soft," she sighed.
But tough!" said God excitedly. "You can imagine what this mother can do or endure."
Can it think?"
Not only can it think, but it can reason and compromise," said the Creator.
Finally, the angel bent over and ran her finger across the cheek.
There's a leak," she pronounced. "I told You that You were trying to put too much into this model."
It's not a leak," said the Lord, "It's a tear."
What's it for?"
It's for joy, sadness, disappointment, pain, loneliness, and pride."
You are a genius, " said the angel.
Somberly, God said, "I didn't put it there."
— Erma Bombeck (When God Created Mothers)
There is no proof, scientific, or otherwise, of how everything came into existence. I love science and know evolution is what formed us. I'm talking about the very very beginning. Perhaps even before the universe formed. Something still heavily debated by scientists.
Until we know how existence, itself, came into being, then absolutely noone can say for fact that there is no God. Who are any of us to tell someone else what they believe is wrong? Or to mock it, as a couple people did my beliefs on this thread?
All it does is lead to tearing each other down.
I agree. And, for the record, I think that what you posted about your beliefs was very interesting. And, Pandora, that 'Mother' posting was really nice and touching.
If you spend a little time researching the scientific knowledge out there you will certainly lean toward being atheist. I certainly respect everyone having their own belief´s but i am strongly against the role government plays in religion .eg. religious schools, taxpayer money used to fund religious initiatives.
As an atheist with an interest in science i feel i appreciate life immensely. Death to me is ok.I understand the atoms making my body up at this very instant will be a total knew set of atoms in roughly 15 yrs. We are just star dust made from elements created in supernova explosions. Now that´s amazing to think about! When we die we will return to the earth. We know how old the earth is approx. 4.5 billion yrs. The observable universe 13.7 billion yrs- We also know there are roughly 200,000,000,000 stars like our sun just in the Milky Way Galaxy and there are about 150 billion observable galaxies all with roughly the same amount of stars as the Milky Way in it.
I think this is a brilliant quote allowing one to feel lucky they were given a chance at life.
We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. The potential people who could have been here in my place but who will in fact never see the light of day outnumber the sand grains of Arabia. Certainly those unborn ghosts include greater poets than Keats, scientists greater than Newton. We know this because the set of possible people allowed by our DNA so massively exceeds the set of actual people. In the teeth of these stupefying odds it is you and I, in our ordinariness, that are here.
A good thread. Lots of atheism in the house and that's a good thing. It shows that were evolving. I was born a Catholic and raised Jewish. I have no use for any of it. But it is undeniably a part of the human experience and has been for as long as we have recorded history and even before we had recorded history as we know it. I think it's fascinating that religion evolved almost organically wherever human civilization can be found. I don't know that's evidence in and of itself that there is a god or gods. But why is it that you can cite few examples of a civilization that didn't worship something....? Is it in our genes?
I think our current major religions all need a good re-write. I like the Old Testament for its stories that I never found to be capable of being fact. The New Testament, to me, has absolutely zero basis in historical fact. But Christians believe we should just have faith. Christianity rose up not from the death of Jesus but from the rise of a Roman Emperor Constantine who used the Christian faith which was then in its infancy to keep his empire unified. The stories that are now known as the New Testament weren't actually compiled until at least 3 centuries after the year we believe to be his death.
I don't know enough about Islam or the Koran. But I do know that until recently Islam had far less blood on its hands that Christianity and it aint even close. And until this Century Islam was in fact far more tolerant than Christianity which has a horrific history.
As far as Judaism is concerned I have my problems with that religion too. While there is not a history of mass murder, there is still a sect of Judaism that is just as intolerant as any other religion. So the bottom line is that I don't see how our current major religions have done anything more than give reason to keep us from evolving and continue to keep us separate.
But I still have an open mind. There is plenty of evidence of God. I just don't find that evidence in any of the world's religious books which are all frankly crocks of shit. The organization of the universe suggests intelligent life and a design. And I do find it difficult to believe that life forms as brilliant and intricate as ours can rise from dust. Our bodies are incredibly complex and intricate machines with genetic codes. Codes don't rise from dust.
So I believe that there has to be higher intelligence that possibly did have a hand in creating life. But, I deplore our major religions. It's time for a re-write.
There is no proof, scientific, or otherwise, of how everything came into existence. I love science and know evolution is what formed us. I'm talking about the very very beginning. Perhaps even before the universe formed. Something still heavily debated by scientists.
Until we know how existence, itself, came into being, then absolutely noone can say for fact that there is no God. Who are any of us to tell someone else what they believe is wrong? Or to mock it, as a couple people did my beliefs on this thread?
All it does is lead to tearing each other down.
I agree with everything in this post. At the same time, by the very same token as you say "no one can say for a fact that there is no God", neither can anyone say for a fact that there is a god. And it seems logical to me (though this is not the case in practice) that the burden of proof should lie with those who postulate that there is a God. The reason for this being that, though there may be no proof either way, there is a vast and ever-increasing pool of mutually reinforcing evidence that suggests more and more that God is unnecessary, and next to no objective evidence that he exists. For that reason, I also agree with newy777's post. To me, it makes far more sense to say "We don't know the answer yet, so let's keep looking and learning" than it does to say "We don't know the answer, so let's make one up. Let's just say, 'God did it'."
I also agree with a lot of what Mariamaniatis says, until we get to this:
There is plenty of evidence of God...The organization of the universe suggests intelligent life and a design. And I do find it difficult to believe that life forms as brilliant and intricate as ours can rise from dust. Our bodies are incredibly complex and intricate machines with genetic codes. Codes don't rise from dust.
So I believe that there has to be higher intelligence that possibly did have a hand in creating life.
This is essentially the "argument from design". I know there's a lot of support for this, particularly among conservative American Christians, but it is an argument that was effectively debunked by David Hume over 200 years ago. Even Christian theologists will tell you that it is a wholly inadequate argument for the existence of God, in a large part because it simply begs the question of "who designed the designer?"
It may be an uncomfortable realisation for us to accept when we are so conditioned to think of a great and beneficient mystical creator, but that doesn't make it any less the case. I myself had a hard time accepting it myself when I started realising that my belief God and religion left me with more questions than answers. But the more I think about it, the more I feel that the absence of such a creator doesn't make life, the universe and everything any less wonderful and beautiful and awe-inspiring. It may even make it more so.
Post edited by wolfamongwolves on
93: Slane
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
One night a man was crying Allah! Allah!
His lips grew sweet with praising,
until a cynic said, “So!
I’ve heard you calling out, but have you ever
gotten any response?”
The man had no answer to that.
He quit praying and fell into a confused sleep.
He dreamed he saw Khidr, the guide of souls,
in a thick, green foliage.
“Why did you stop praising?”
“Because
I’ve never heard anything back.”
“This longing you express
is the return message.”
The grief you cry out from
draws you toward union.
Your pure sadness
that wants help
is the secret cup.
Listen to the moan of a dog for its master.
That whining is the connection.
Comments
interesting line
im of a similar thought
Religion seems to be based on the fastasy Ideals that people create to make life more meaningful and to give it purpose.
But behind all religion is money, and we know money always brings trouble.
I found it farsical that one of the last times i was in a church (a pre wedding service) the Vicar rambled on about the credit crunch and money worries of his flock. He told the handful of people who still turn up every week not to worry about money because jesus wouldnt let you suffer......and immediately after he stopped bleating on about people shouldnt worry about their mortgage he passed around the donation tray.
Seems some people need to believe in a 'god'....thats cool, thats their call, it helps them deal with pain I guess.
But the bible is a book full of hyprocrisy and confusion. and of course has a huge fictional content. In real terms its like the equivalent of a book written today becoming a new holy writing in 2000 years.
After all, I understand the bible was written what 100 years after Christ? how on earth do we know whats in it isnt total nonsense?
and Jesus? seriously if a guy came into your town in todays world and claimed to perform miracles would you honestly give him the time of day? I dare say he would be sectioned under the mental health act. david Copperfield's exploits being the only potential explanation.
And seriously, if your daughter popped home and claimed to be a virgin who was pregnant would anyone in the world believe her knowing what we know today? Science isnt always conclusive but it has taught us a lot.
That said I admire those with a faith, i see it makes them strong, and there is no harm in that. Sadly religion doesnt stop there.
Yet personally Im a i must see it or understand it to really believe it.
and really if God really did the Adam and Eve thing and created man in the 7 day creation period (he was on a roll that week), why on earth are we not finding fossilised humans with the dinasaurs.....fossils tell us Dinasaurs predated man by almost 30 million years, not 6days as would be suggested in Gods master week.
ramble over
then we will not see nor understand nor believe
I believe in positive thought, I believe in miracles
and I believe in the possibilities
I've always liked a particular bible quote that speaks nicely to that idea:
"When I was a child I spoke as a child I understood as a child I thought as a child; but when I became a man I put away childish things." I Cor. xiii. 11
Not exactly. The Gospels were written in that timeframe, something like between 80-100 AD. But the Bible is a collection of distinct, separate books that were written over a period of maybe 1,000 years, mostly before Jesus, and only later (at least 400 years after Jesus) edited and compiled (quite a few times and quite a few different ways) into the Bible. That's one of the big reasons why it's so full of "confusion" & inconsistency. It's not, and never was, a single coherent text.
I'm reading a really intersting book at the moment called "Jesus for the Non-religious", written by a bishop (John Shelby Spong). He goes through the gospels with a fine-toothed comb & puts them very much in the context of their times (which is something that those who take the bible literally tend to miss entirely) & he ends up in pretty much the same position as you, pdalowsky.
I find that many of the points he makes really confirm my own atheism, and yet he still finds a way to confirm his own belief - so just for that alone, I'd recommend it to everyone on this thread (religious & non-). If you're interested enough in this subject to be in this thread, you're probably likely to find it a pretty fascinating read.
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
without wishing to become embroiled in a personal debate on this, I read this as saying: -
questionning what appears fiction with a common sense approach will close the door to a world of fantasy
I think perhaps you mean this is a positive way to look at your post...
I would agree
you put a positive spin on your original post
but
key word here is appears this means it is not fact .... it is a judgement
questioning is not cynical...nor comes with predisposed answers
one must stay objective and positive and in need of an answer
purely open to receive
I will hunt the book down it sounds very interesting
oh but I will never put away childish things as they speak to my heart
Aw shucks. Wasn't expecting a compliment. :oops:
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
oh cool, so in my original post i wasnt being cynical...merely inquisitive?
they were general
but your post did sound a teeny bit cynical or skeptical is maybe the better word
sorry...I don't want to offend.
Just sounded a little negative...
kind of like if a miracle dropped in your lap.. you would think it trickery
or if Jesus walked the Earth you had already decided you wouldn't believe
maybe even if you could see it and understand it.
I probably took it wrong, excuse me please.
Yes, I would hope for inquisitiveness
and I pray for miracles
You are now embroiled. Have you not been reading this thread? It's not something you want to be embroiled in with her. She talks in circles. I'm dizzy just thinking about it.
PS I liked your post. A friend of mine went to a baptism last week. She said the sermon was all about how if you don't baptize your child then they will go to hell. That is disgusting in my eyes. And then someone went around with the collection plate and apparently some big bouncer looking guy hoovered over the flock giving everyone dirty looks as the collection plate went by. How do people believe in this shit??!!
embroiled...don't hear that much
I've never been baptized and I agree with you as far as that subject goes.
although you are only looking at the negative, there are good things about religion and church but if you can not see them I guess they don't exist
I don't follow a religion or go to church but believe in a supreme being,
I believe in working towards unconditional love for all humanity.
not much of a circle really... pretty much straight forward
fair to say you and i are very much on the same page.
and you are right Pandora always deals with these things in the nicest way possible. My full respect there.
I dont always follow it but thats that
glad it's here and glad you are too
thank you both for attempting to understand...
that means a lot to this crazy old lady and to this crazy ass world
what the world needs more of...understanding
Until we know how existence, itself, came into being, then absolutely noone can say for fact that there is no God. Who are any of us to tell someone else what they believe is wrong? Or to mock it, as a couple people did my beliefs on this thread?
All it does is lead to tearing each other down.
I used to be on an endless run
Believed in miracles 'cuz I'm one
I've been blessed with the power to survive
After all these years I'm still alive
I'm out here kickin with the band
I am no longer a solitary man
Everyday my time runs out
Live like a fool, that's what i was about
Oh I believe in miracles
I believe in a better world for me and you
Oh Oh I believe in miracles
I believe in a better world for me and you
Tattooed your name on my arm
I always said my girl's a good luck charm
If she can find a reason to forgive
Then i can find a reason to live
I used to be on an endless run
Believed in miracles 'cuz I'm one
I've been blessed with the power to survive
After all these years I'm still alive
Oh I believe in miracles
I believe in a better world for me and you
Oh Oh I believe in miracles
I believe in a better world for me and you
I close my eyes and think how it might be
the future's here today
it's not too late, it's not too late oh
I believe in miracles
I believe in a better world for me and you
Oh I believe in miracles
I believe in a better world for me and you
When the Good Lord was creating mothers, He was into His sixth day of "overtime" when the angel appeared and said. "You're doing a lot of fiddling around on this one."
And God said, "Have you read the specs on this order?" She has to be completely washable, but not plastic. Have 180 moveable parts...all replaceable. Run on black coffee and leftovers. Have a lap that disappears when she stands up. A kiss that can cure anything from a broken leg to a disappointed love affair. And six pairs of hands."
The angel shook her head slowly and said. "Six pairs of hands.... no way."
It's not the hands that are causing me problems," God remarked, "it's the three pairs of eyes that mothers have to have."
That's on the standard model?" asked the angel. God nodded.
One pair that sees through closed doors when she asks, 'What are you kids doing in there?' when she already knows. Another here in the back of her head that sees what she shouldn't but what she has to know, and of course the ones here in front that can look at a child when he goofs up and say. 'I understand and I love you' without so much as uttering a word."
God," said the angel touching his sleeve gently, "Get some rest tomorrow...."
I can't," said God, "I'm so close to creating something so close to myself. Already I have one who heals herself when she is sick...can feed a family of six on one pound of hamburger...and can get a nine year old to stand under a shower."
The angel circled the model of a mother very slowly. "It's too soft," she sighed.
But tough!" said God excitedly. "You can imagine what this mother can do or endure."
Can it think?"
Not only can it think, but it can reason and compromise," said the Creator.
Finally, the angel bent over and ran her finger across the cheek.
There's a leak," she pronounced. "I told You that You were trying to put too much into this model."
It's not a leak," said the Lord, "It's a tear."
What's it for?"
It's for joy, sadness, disappointment, pain, loneliness, and pride."
You are a genius, " said the angel.
Somberly, God said, "I didn't put it there."
— Erma Bombeck (When God Created Mothers)
As an atheist with an interest in science i feel i appreciate life immensely. Death to me is ok.I understand the atoms making my body up at this very instant will be a total knew set of atoms in roughly 15 yrs. We are just star dust made from elements created in supernova explosions. Now that´s amazing to think about! When we die we will return to the earth. We know how old the earth is approx. 4.5 billion yrs. The observable universe 13.7 billion yrs- We also know there are roughly 200,000,000,000 stars like our sun just in the Milky Way Galaxy and there are about 150 billion observable galaxies all with roughly the same amount of stars as the Milky Way in it.
I think this is a brilliant quote allowing one to feel lucky they were given a chance at life.
We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. The potential people who could have been here in my place but who will in fact never see the light of day outnumber the sand grains of Arabia. Certainly those unborn ghosts include greater poets than Keats, scientists greater than Newton. We know this because the set of possible people allowed by our DNA so massively exceeds the set of actual people. In the teeth of these stupefying odds it is you and I, in our ordinariness, that are here.
Richard Dawkins, Unweaving the Rainbow
I think our current major religions all need a good re-write. I like the Old Testament for its stories that I never found to be capable of being fact. The New Testament, to me, has absolutely zero basis in historical fact. But Christians believe we should just have faith. Christianity rose up not from the death of Jesus but from the rise of a Roman Emperor Constantine who used the Christian faith which was then in its infancy to keep his empire unified. The stories that are now known as the New Testament weren't actually compiled until at least 3 centuries after the year we believe to be his death.
I don't know enough about Islam or the Koran. But I do know that until recently Islam had far less blood on its hands that Christianity and it aint even close. And until this Century Islam was in fact far more tolerant than Christianity which has a horrific history.
As far as Judaism is concerned I have my problems with that religion too. While there is not a history of mass murder, there is still a sect of Judaism that is just as intolerant as any other religion. So the bottom line is that I don't see how our current major religions have done anything more than give reason to keep us from evolving and continue to keep us separate.
But I still have an open mind. There is plenty of evidence of God. I just don't find that evidence in any of the world's religious books which are all frankly crocks of shit. The organization of the universe suggests intelligent life and a design. And I do find it difficult to believe that life forms as brilliant and intricate as ours can rise from dust. Our bodies are incredibly complex and intricate machines with genetic codes. Codes don't rise from dust.
So I believe that there has to be higher intelligence that possibly did have a hand in creating life. But, I deplore our major religions. It's time for a re-write.
I agree with everything in this post. At the same time, by the very same token as you say "no one can say for a fact that there is no God", neither can anyone say for a fact that there is a god. And it seems logical to me (though this is not the case in practice) that the burden of proof should lie with those who postulate that there is a God. The reason for this being that, though there may be no proof either way, there is a vast and ever-increasing pool of mutually reinforcing evidence that suggests more and more that God is unnecessary, and next to no objective evidence that he exists. For that reason, I also agree with newy777's post. To me, it makes far more sense to say "We don't know the answer yet, so let's keep looking and learning" than it does to say "We don't know the answer, so let's make one up. Let's just say, 'God did it'."
I also agree with a lot of what Mariamaniatis says, until we get to this:
This is essentially the "argument from design". I know there's a lot of support for this, particularly among conservative American Christians, but it is an argument that was effectively debunked by David Hume over 200 years ago. Even Christian theologists will tell you that it is a wholly inadequate argument for the existence of God, in a large part because it simply begs the question of "who designed the designer?"
Cut to the modern day (yesterday, in fact http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/may/15/stephen-hawking-interview-there-is-no-heaven?INTCMP=SRCH), and scientists more intelligent and knowledgeable than any of us here tell us that it is perfectly feasible that complex, intricate and living machines could indeed develop from a combination of chance and time.
It may be an uncomfortable realisation for us to accept when we are so conditioned to think of a great and beneficient mystical creator, but that doesn't make it any less the case. I myself had a hard time accepting it myself when I started realising that my belief God and religion left me with more questions than answers. But the more I think about it, the more I feel that the absence of such a creator doesn't make life, the universe and everything any less wonderful and beautiful and awe-inspiring. It may even make it more so.
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
the only evidence of God is peoples faith.. and thats hardly rock solid evidence of his existence now is it??
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
His lips grew sweet with praising,
until a cynic said, “So!
I’ve heard you calling out, but have you ever
gotten any response?”
The man had no answer to that.
He quit praying and fell into a confused sleep.
He dreamed he saw Khidr, the guide of souls,
in a thick, green foliage.
“Why did you stop praising?”
“Because
I’ve never heard anything back.”
“This longing you express
is the return message.”
The grief you cry out from
draws you toward union.
Your pure sadness
that wants help
is the secret cup.
Listen to the moan of a dog for its master.
That whining is the connection.
There are love dogs
no one knows the names of.
Give your life
to be one of them.
Rumi