Religious Beliefs

boyo79

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Paul David wrote:

some people say just accept the love and move on. I say this:

music is my religion. I don't want to hear "music is not a religion". I could say the same thing about anything you believe in. so stop right there.

however, my wife isn't so much a music fan. the last cd she bought was probably about 15 years ago. if every time she was down, or had something bad happen in her life,I said "here honey" and put on a cd of Creed music, is she supposed to say "thank you for your message of love", or say "I don't like that, turn it off"? I'd say the latter. Does it make sense for me to say back to her "but this is how I express my love and condolences to you, so I'm keeping it on, deal with it and accept my gift of love".

Absolutely not.

And yes, it IS the same. and it's ridiculous. showing her love in the way that makes ME feel comfortable is SELFISH. Maybe I should do it in a way that consoles HER, not in a way that makes ME feel good about myself for doing it.

:thumbup:

Its definitely a weird analogy, but it makes sense. We all talk about compromise, and this is it. Feeling out your audience, and doing what's best for a collective makes more sense to me.

but on a sidenote, you're going to hell for bringing Creed into a religious discussion.

I agree here, very interesting analogy from PD but almost makes complete sense. On the Creed issue, if its their 1st album you're forgiven. If its any of their other albums, you're not

phunkymunky

redrock wrote:

6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.


Not sure about that. What about the highlighted bit of point 6? Assuming one really needs a specific definition.

i guess i can only speak for myself, but i don't devote my every waking minute to not believing in a god or higher order. for me it's more like an instinctual thing. i don't wake up in the morning and think 'gee, i better keep up my non-belief'. almost all of the time i'm not consciously thinking about it at all.

i think it's probably better to split the religion from the belief. the word religion, to me anyway, implies dogma and ritual that are a part of showing your belief in a god or 'something'. e.g. going to church, wearing a cross, getting charcoal on your forehead for ash wednesday and so forth.

dogma and ritual are not necessary parts of belief. you can believe in something without having either of those in your life.

redrock

Phunky - I was focussing on the 'a point or matter of ethics'. But yes, I do get your point regarding not 'thinking' about something that is not there!

Religion is defintely man made, but where there is a god, there is religion (eg rituals and such). Whilst a belief in a god does not automatically mean one follows any ritual, there is still some 'dogma' , ie 'codes' that one follows (if we are go to on some of the posts here). Whilst one may not follow the rituals, one follows the codes of the god they choose to believe in. So, pick and choose, really.

phunkymunky

granted, but if you take the rest of point 6, "to make a religion of fighting prejudice", i put no effort into not believing. if i were to put effort into the non-belief then i guess you could consider it religious.

i'm not mocking what you wrote. i is possible that you could consider atheism to be a religion, particularly if you look at the way people like richard dawkins and sam harris push it and actively promote it.

redrock

I don't consider atheism a religion at all. I'm thinking that the rest of the point was just an example - could be anything really.

Anyway - just words from one dictionnary. Some person had to come up with a definition!

My efforts go into what is generally called humanism which, I guess, some would say it's a doctrine as well, though I would say it's more of a philosophy. But at least it's based on something concrete

pandora

Paul David wrote:

some people say just accept the love and move on. I say this:

music is my religion. I don't want to hear "music is not a religion". I could say the same thing about anything you believe in. so stop right there.

however, my wife isn't so much a music fan. the last cd she bought was probably about 15 years ago. if every time she was down, or had something bad happen in her life,I said "here honey" and put on a cd of Creed music, is she supposed to say "thank you for your message of love", or say "I don't like that, turn it off"? I'd say the latter. Does it make sense for me to say back to her "but this is how I express my love and condolences to you, so I'm keeping it on, deal with it and accept my gift of love".

Absolutely not.

And yes, it IS the same. and it's ridiculous. showing her love in the way that makes ME feel comfortable is SELFISH. Maybe I should do it in a way that consoles HER, not in a way that makes ME feel good about myself for doing it.

Its important to stay true to ones beliefs...All of us.

If one can not separate love from music ...
if only the lovely sound was your light and love to give....
if it were the only way for you to show love
you would then have to share the music
and if someone embraced your music all the more beautiful
but to stifle the music because perhaps someone may not enjoy
well what a horrible waste of something beautiful.

Side note that is an extremely lovely thought by the way..
music shared is my favorite gift

pandora

"Music does bring people together.
It allows us to experience the same emotions.
People everywhere are the same in heart and spirit.
No matter what language we speak, what color we are,
the form of our politics or the expression of our love and our faith,
music proves: We are the same."
~ John Denver ~

ed243421

pandora wrote:

Paul David wrote:

some people say just accept the love and move on. I say this:

music is my religion. I don't want to hear "music is not a religion". I could say the same thing about anything you believe in. so stop right there.

however, my wife isn't so much a music fan. the last cd she bought was probably about 15 years ago. if every time she was down, or had something bad happen in her life,I said "here honey" and put on a cd of Creed music, is she supposed to say "thank you for your message of love", or say "I don't like that, turn it off"? I'd say the latter. Does it make sense for me to say back to her "but this is how I express my love and condolences to you, so I'm keeping it on, deal with it and accept my gift of love".

Absolutely not.

And yes, it IS the same. and it's ridiculous. showing her love in the way that makes ME feel comfortable is SELFISH. Maybe I should do it in a way that consoles HER, not in a way that makes ME feel good about myself for doing it.

Its important to stay true to ones beliefs...All of us.

If one can not separate love from music ...
if only the lovely sound was your light and love to give....
if it were the only way for you to show love
you would then have to share the music
and if someone embraced your music all the more beautiful
but to stifle the music because perhaps someone may not enjoy
well what a horrible waste of something beautiful.

Side note that is an extremely lovely thought by the way..
music shared is my favorite gift

am i reading this wrong
or is this a very rude response

ed243421

The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one.”

“At present there is not a single credible established religion in the world.”

-George Bernard Shaw, Irish-born English playwright (1856-1950)

ed243421

“History I believe furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose. ” – Thomas Jefferson to Baron von Humboldt, 1813

“The Christian god can easily be pictured as virtually the same god as the many ancient gods of past civilizations. The Christian god is a three headed monster; cruel, vengeful and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and hypocrites.”

“Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.” –Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782.

“And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors.” –Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

“Religions are all alike – founded upon fables and mythologies.”

“I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature.”

“Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man.”

“It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are 20 gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.”

- Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat

pandora

ed243421 wrote:

pandora wrote:

Paul David wrote:

some people say just accept the love and move on. I say this:

music is my religion. I don't want to hear "music is not a religion". I could say the same thing about anything you believe in. so stop right there.

however, my wife isn't so much a music fan. the last cd she bought was probably about 15 years ago. if every time she was down, or had something bad happen in her life,I said "here honey" and put on a cd of Creed music, is she supposed to say "thank you for your message of love", or say "I don't like that, turn it off"? I'd say the latter. Does it make sense for me to say back to her "but this is how I express my love and condolences to you, so I'm keeping it on, deal with it and accept my gift of love".

Absolutely not.

And yes, it IS the same. and it's ridiculous. showing her love in the way that makes ME feel comfortable is SELFISH. Maybe I should do it in a way that consoles HER, not in a way that makes ME feel good about myself for doing it.

Its important to stay true to ones beliefs...All of us.

If one can not separate love from music ...
if only the lovely sound was your light and love to give....
if it were the only way for you to show love
you would then have to share the music
and if someone embraced your music all the more beautiful
but to stifle the music because perhaps someone may not enjoy
well what a horrible waste of something beautiful.

Side note that is an extremely lovely thought by the way..
music shared is my favorite gift

am i reading this wrong
or is this a very rude response

rude :?

well...you will take a post the way you see it,

as I have taken many posts here as rude when perhaps they were being kind to me....

I followed his example of music ....
only to show that its ok to show faith based love and that it is not driven by selfishness
and should not be stifled because someone may perhaps not enjoy the tune.

We all walk to the beat of a different drummer
but we can respect that beat for the fulfillment it provides
and be free to share with whomever will appreciate it.

pandora

"It is difficult to make a man miserable while he feels worthy of himself and claims kindred to the great God who made him."
— Abraham Lincoln
Lordy I love this guy!

ed243421

The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma.”

-Abraham Lincoln, American president (1809-1865)

pandora

ed243421 wrote:

The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma.”

-Abraham Lincoln, American president (1809-1865)

You confuse me with a Christrian sir..why does this keep happening?



Abe was amazing ... he had God in his heart

"I can see how it might be possible for a man to look down upon the earth and be an atheist, but I cannot conceive how a man could look up into the heavens and say there is no God."
— Abraham Lincoln

he still stands

"Religion is not merely the opium of the masses, it is the cyanide." - Tom Robbins

... I agree for the most part. The most self-actualized, intelligent, enlightened and happy people I've met have created these traits on their own - by surrounding themselves with people who share these traits, through books, education, music, art, and by leaving religion, consumerism and culture behind in the trash heap.

We are still evolving as a species and I think that religion is dying as an acceptable model of thought. We must be careful though to not allow science and rationalism to become our new religion. I think that it is important to understand that if you think that "science proves EVERYTHING" that you are being just as rigidly dogmatic as the fundamentalist Christian.

Actually, scientists themselves would mostly subscribe to "model agnosticism" in which we think more in degrees in probability and we don't assume anything. That model of thinking tends to either liberate you or scare the shit out of you... Maybe THAT is marker of the evolved?

pandora

ed243421 wrote:

I’d like to thank God, who I don’t believe in, for all of his love and support.”
Ed Vedder— June 24, 2008, Madison Square Garden, New York, NY

Vedder explains in the interview
that he
"doesn't mind touching on spirituality in the songs,"
but that it's really "an individual thing"


~ ~ ~ ~ ~



our idol is the loving accepting man we all knew him to be

he warms my heart and brings peace to my soul

and I thank God daily for him and Pearl Jam!

ed243421

pandora wrote:

ed243421 wrote:

The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma.”

-Abraham Lincoln, American president (1809-1865)

You confuse me with a Christrian sir..why does this keep happening?


what is the difference?

pandora

ed243421 wrote:

pandora wrote:

ed243421 wrote:

The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma.”

-Abraham Lincoln, American president (1809-1865)

You confuse me with a Christrian sir..why does this keep happening?


what is the difference?

I think you should go to wikipedia....it is a very long story

Christians believe Christ is their savior they follow a religion and understand the religion
the Bible their book I believe most all are baptized and thats pretty much all I know.

I believe in God and know we are on a path, that there is a afterlife, that we all have souls

I reject religion, never been indoctrinated in a religion and have not been baptized.

I believe God is Love the power of love in us all.

one more for the Abe!

"When I do good, I feel good. When I do bad, I feel bad. That's my religion."
— Abraham Lincoln

Black73

ed243421 wrote:

“History I believe furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose. ” – Thomas Jefferson to Baron von Humboldt, 1813

“The Christian god can easily be pictured as virtually the same god as the many ancient gods of past civilizations. The Christian god is a three headed monster; cruel, vengeful and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and hypocrites.”

“Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.” –Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782.

“And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors.” –Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

“Religions are all alike – founded upon fables and mythologies.”

“I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature.”

“Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man.”

“It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are 20 gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.”

- Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat

Lucky for him the Mormons baptized him in the afterlife!

redrock

Black73 wrote:

Lucky for him the Mormons baptized him in the afterlife!