Religious Beliefs

BinauralJam

brandon10 wrote:

Forcing your "prayer" or "love" on someone who doesn't want it is flat out creepy.

It's religious rape.

Holy Fuck!

pandora

BinauralJam wrote:

brandon10 wrote:

Forcing your "prayer" or "love" on someone who doesn't want it is flat out creepy.

It's religious rape.

Holy Fuck!

whygohome

It seems that "God" would be fed up with what is going on with "His" creation. Though he sits in the clouds and does nothing? Interesting. maybe instead of looking to the clouds for all of our answers (to the unanswerable and unknowable) we should start looking at ourselves. The human race is a plague.

aerial

whygohome wrote:

It seems that "God" would be fed up with what is going on with "His" creation. Though he sits in the clouds and does nothing? Interesting. maybe instead of looking to the clouds for all of our answers (to the unanswerable and unknowable) we should start looking at ourselves. The human race is a plague.

In 1947, sociologist Dr. Carle Zimmerman wrote a text called Family and Civilization. He identified 11 "symptoms of final decay" observable in the fall of both Greek and Roman civilizations. See how many characterize the North American societies...

1. No fault divorce
2. Increased disrespect for parenthood and parents
3.Meaningless marriage rights/ceremonies
4. Defamation of past national heroes
5. Acceptance of alternative marriage forms
6. Widespread attitudes of feminism, narcissism, and hedonism
7. Propogation of anitfamily sentiment
8. Acceptance of most forms of adultery
9. Rebellios children
10. Increased juvenile delinquency
11. Common acceptance of all forms of sexual perversion.*
the moral and ethical values that made America strong are dissipating....

whygohome

aerial wrote:

whygohome wrote:

It seems that "God" would be fed up with what is going on with "His" creation. Though he sits in the clouds and does nothing? Interesting. maybe instead of looking to the clouds for all of our answers (to the unanswerable and unknowable) we should start looking at ourselves. The human race is a plague.

In 1947, sociologist Dr. Carle Zimmerman wrote a text called Family and Civilization. He identified 11 "symptoms of final decay" observable in the fall of both Greek and Roman civilizations. See how many characterize the North American societies...

1. No fault divorce
2. Increased disrespect for parenthood and parents
3.Meaningless marriage rights/ceremonies
4. Defamation of past national heroes
5. Acceptance of alternative marriage forms
6. Widespread attitudes of feminism, narcissism, and hedonism
7. Propogation of anitfamily sentiment
8. Acceptance of most forms of adultery
9. Rebellios children
10. Increased juvenile delinquency
11. Common acceptance of all forms of sexual perversion.*
the moral and ethical values that made America strong are dissipating....

Sounds like some summer reading for me.
Let's see, what can we apply to the U.S.?
1,2,3,5,6 (what's wrong with feminism?),9,10.
We are doomed!!!

blondieblue227

yeah. we are always on the edge of End Of Days. :roll:

MrAbraham wrote:

You know, with so much greed and corruption in this world, from corporations, companies, governments, law enforcement, religious leaders all so much bad energies, and when the truth that sits within all of us sees such corruption and lies, we turn away from it.

The truth you know inside is what's making you turn away from religion, as it should I guess, religion is covered with lies and corruption, made by mans greed and ego.

But the key is to take away that ego, find the nature of man, that is a path worth moving towards, see how deep the rabbit hole goes.

exactly. that was beautiful. very well put.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

iluvcats wrote:

EmBleve wrote:

"Paul wrote:

no matter if it's simply a "god bless you" after sneezing (we all remember that thread),

not trying to divert the subject, but I did not see this thread, and had a conversation with a friend recently about this same thing. I hadn't ever really thought about it; I've always just said 'bless you' (no 'god') when somebody sneezes, without literally thinking of blessing their souls or anything religious or the like. What was the consensus on what is 'politically correct'?

It was my thread. My original question in the thread was about saying excuse me after I sneeze. I discovered I'm a rude slob. My question was not about blessing someone but that came up in the thead:
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=148739&hilit=+sneeze

[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]

actually, i was referring to the thread i started a few months back saying "God Bless you, I don't say it". I got destroyed for pages upon pages for the simple fact that I felt uncomfortable blessing someone. It eventually got locked.

http://forums.pearljam.com/viewtopic.ph ... +bless+you

Hugh Freaking Dillon

pandora wrote:

My personal belief is nonbelievers should attempt to feel the love
that comes their way even when associated with another's belief system,
even if it comes with God.

I do the same if approached by a religious person.
I respect their religion, their right to it and will listen to their words, although
I do not believe as they do.

Just as I listen to atheists scientific beliefs and thoughts on why God does not exist to them.

We owe it to each other to listen, embrace and try to bond whatever ones beliefs are.

If I show my love by saying I will pray it is up to the atheist to decide if he will embrace my gesture based in love or not but can still remain gracious and respectful.

I do not think it is crowding nor pushing to offer a 'my thoughts and prayers are with you' when I am being sincere and loving. I am not asking them to believe, I am showing my love.

And when I am out and I say thank you and a person responds.... 'no problem' :?
I will not jump on them nor be offended for their lack of politeness.
I will accept the phrase as it was offered because I get where they are coming from.

"nonbelievers should attempt.....". By saying this, you are putting the onus of understanding on ME. Like it's my responsibility to seek out th meaning in your Godlovemessage. That's silliness.

And actually, my standard response to "thank you" is "no problem". What exactly is wrong with that?

catefrances

MrAbraham wrote:

catefrances wrote:

Release_Me wrote:

I, for one, definitely won't use that argument because I know for a fact that it does not hold any weight. We are born with an innate ability to distinguish between good and evil, it is for this reason that the Quran calls man as 'his own witness'. He knows when he has done wrong, his conscience constantly pricks him about it. Yet, there are people who just don't give a damn.

I may get the chance to see them live someday, but very unlikely

oh absolutely wo/man is her/his own witness. i consider my conscience my soul. weird concept for an atheist to speak of... having a soul?? i dont think so. i answer to myself not some entity some feel may exist, or definitely feel exist.

Everything in life is recorded, from our thoughts, intentions, words and actions. This is science, energy like that is not destroyed, but stored away in space time and beyond.

The entity is simply the truth, the reality of what is. When the usage of the word God is spoken, we lose sight of really what that means, God is nature, God is Life, God is everything from start to end.

Because of human nature, we often find the need to put a face to God, when we do that, we lose sight of the reality of God, which is everything. So indeed you answer to yourself only, which is part of the balance of nature. Your conscience keeps one in touch with nature, after all, if we recycle, we do this for nature, and our conscience, it's one. But again as humans, we like to split things.

Your conscience is your soul, then what is your conscience?

my conscience is my guide.

catefrances

pandora wrote:

...If someone says 'my thoughts and prayers are with you'
perhaps the atheist could just shrug it off and take the sentiment for what it is worth,
as nerve wracking as that is.....
seeing that it was not meant to offend.

shrug it off???? :roll: oh pandora... you must stop assuming everyone you meet or address is a believer. my thoughts are with you is quite enough without adding the prayers. sure feel free to say it to those you know with certainty are believers... but please show some respect and be a little more judicious instead of just tossing it out there and thinking the receiver should just shrug it off if theyre an atheist or irreligious.

BinauralJam

catefrances wrote:

pandora wrote:

...If someone says 'my thoughts and prayers are with you'
perhaps the atheist could just shrug it off and take the sentiment for what it is worth,
as nerve wracking as that is.....
seeing that it was not meant to offend.

shrug it off???? :roll: oh pandora... you must stop assuming everyone you meet or address is a believer. my thoughts are with you is quite enough without adding the prayers. sure feel free to say it to those you know with certainty are believers... but please show some respect and be a little more judicious instead of just tossing it out there and thinking the receiver should just shrug it off if theyre an atheist or irreligious.

i get where's Pandora's comin from.

catefrances

as do i BJ, as do i.

iluvcats

Paul David wrote:

iluvcats wrote:

EmBleve wrote:

"Paul wrote:

no matter if it's simply a "god bless you" after sneezing (we all remember that thread),

not trying to divert the subject, but I did not see this thread, and had a conversation with a friend recently about this same thing. I hadn't ever really thought about it; I've always just said 'bless you' (no 'god') when somebody sneezes, without literally thinking of blessing their souls or anything religious or the like. What was the consensus on what is 'politically correct'?

It was my thread. My original question in the thread was about saying excuse me after I sneeze. I discovered I'm a rude slob. My question was not about blessing someone but that came up in the thead:
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=148739&hilit=+sneeze

[/quote][/quote][/quote]

actually, i was referring to the thread i started a few months back saying "God Bless you, I don't say it". I got destroyed for pages upon pages for the simple fact that I felt uncomfortable blessing someone. It eventually got locked.

http://forums.pearljam.com/viewtopic.ph ... +bless+you[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]
I'm sorry, I thought you meant my thread. I never saw your thread til now

Hugh Freaking Dillon

iluvcats wrote:

I'm sorry, I thought you meant my thread. I never saw your thread til now

and I actually didn't see yours until you mentioned it either!

redrock

Paul David wrote:

"nonbelievers should attempt.....". By saying this, you are putting the onus of understanding on ME. Like it's my responsibility to seek out th meaning in your Godlovemessage. That's silliness.

And actually, my standard response to "thank you" is "no problem". What exactly is wrong with that?

Nothing wrong. The language has evolved and the 'traditional' you're welcome is no longer the only acceptable response, especially amongst the 'younger' people.

redrock

pandora wrote:

And that believers will not attempt to use prayer as a weapon or catalyst for a need for change,
that their faith is based in love to give....to give only.

I really don't think anyone is suggesting that with 'I'll pray for you' is an attempt for a theist to change an atheist. You are again choosing to ignore the point of this. If that's the best a theist can do on the 'two way' thing, it's poor. Again, how about respect for the atheists views in not automatically assuming they wish to have some 'prayer love'? Whether you say love is love or not.

You work on the premise that everyone wants what you want to give in the manner you want to give it and that it's disrespectful or rude to refuse. How about you think you have something that some would gratefully receive - let's find out first so you are not disrespectful to those who don't.

Random_Wookie

redrock wrote:

pandora wrote:

And that believers will not attempt to use prayer as a weapon or catalyst for a need for change,
that their faith is based in love to give....to give only.

I really don't think anyone is suggesting that with 'I'll pray for you' is an attempt for a theist to change an atheist. You are again choosing to ignore the point of this. If that's the best a theist can do on the 'two way' thing, it's poor. Again, how about respect for the atheists views in not automatically assuming they wish to have some 'prayer love'? Whether you say love is love or not.

but do they truly mean it or is it just a convention of their faith and they do it to get into their paradise.

redrock

Wookie - though some theits/followers of a religion do see their actions on earth as paving the way to 'paradise', the question I am asking is can a person impose a 'gift' (that they really want to give) to another person with the prior knowledge that it is not something they want and it will not be well received. Should this 'giving' person be offended/feel disrespected because this unsolicited 'gift' is unwanted? Is the 'receiver' closed hearted/minded if he/she says no to this 'gift'. Is this 'gift' still 'of the heart' / unselfish then? Or is it rather given for the benefit of the 'giver' (make them feel good?)?

A bit of a flippant example but an example nevertheless - Looking at the devastation in Japan, I see a family that have lost EVERYTHING. I have three TVs, I think 'from the bottom of my heart, I'll give them one of my TVs, I don't need 3, and they lost theirs. Then the family can gather around it and have a bit of cheer watching a funny film - just like my family do.' Do you think the family that lost everything will be grateful? Does the 'giver' have a right to feel disrespected when the 'gift' is not well received?

I know I keep on bringing up some strange concrete examples, but it seems the more abstract concepts are not fully understood.

aerial

Why no tolerance for the believer of God? Why no tolerance from the atheist?

redrock

aerial wrote:

Why no tolerance for the believer of God? Why no tolerance from the atheist?

Everyone can believe in what they want, but when one starts 'imposing' - that's different. ""The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins."

A double glazing salesman comes to your door, he's doing his job, you're not interested, you say no thank you. No problem. He comes to your door the next day knowing you are not interested but insists on 'doing what he needs to do'. Again, no thank you. And the next day... getting annoyed? What? He's back for a 4th time???? Don't you get pissed off? Bet you do.

Same principle.