Oh how this thread and topic make my mind swirl around.
To the original post, I was raised Jewish (though as a kid, not quite sure I had a grasp on the whole deal). In my teens/early 20s, a spitfire atheist.
My dad and I had many conversations about this. In his early teens, he left Germany (and his parents) for America in the late 30s. He knew what was coming. His parents stayed and were eventually "transferred" to a concentration camp. My grandmother died at Thereisenstadt (in her husbands arms - small blessing) and my grandfather made it to freedom afterward. Short-lived, but he got to spend precious time with his son again.
I've felt an obligation to not break that chain - so much sacrificed in the name of beliefs...BELIEFS - but I also think one has to make an effort to have faith. It can't be forced. And, I just couldn't do it...couldn't make myself believe. I think my father understood and respected that.
I think our essence is about integrity, honor, kindness. That may come from some tenets of religion, but not from religion itself.
My father died in September 2008, and this past Hannukah, I lit the menorah that he brought with him from Germany and passed on to me. It wasn't about MY beliefs, but about honoring his.
Holy fuck, I miss him. Such a unique and decent man.
hmmm.....not sure where I'm going with this.
I guess that now, in my 40s, I consider myself agnostic. I know that I just don't know. I look at whatever god might be as nature - life. Like the line from Man of the Hour (also tied to my dad) - "nature has its own religion, gospel from the land". That's it for me.
Early mornings when I sit by our window, having a smoke, watching the city awake and the sky explode in color...or the times where this part of California becomes violent and shakes the complacency out of us...and so much more - everything that's bigger than tiny me...that's god.
but see then you're stuck dealing with the whole, "I must spread Gods word" thing. and it potentially won't stop. how do you deal with that?
...
Back to this... I was thinking about this one... it is a common thread I run into from time to time. I love your words of inclusion. I do not like the fact that you need to spread the word of inclusion and wish it was just part of our human nature.
And, back to religion and some recent comments, shouldn't it be accepting of all? I can't imagine I would be turned away from a church, or temple, or mosque if I went there in need of help, comfort or guidance. I would hope not.
My "mother-in-law" was a very religious woman but never gave Danny and me shit for living together. Throughout his surgeries, she'd send us mass prayer cards, religious messages and holy water from the Vatican. The items themselves held no particular meaning for me, but the place of love from where they came?
Oh hell yes.
...
I don't negate religion... I admit, I don't accept it for me, but I don't ever try to shake people of their faith. I will tell them it is good for them... provides comfort and hope. And I don't care if they pray for me or not.
I just don't like it when they make it sound like they will pray for me so thay I might see their light and believe as they do... like I need to be saved. Save your prayers for the ones in need... I'm doing okay. And who knows, I may be strolling down Fairfax one day and trip over God and see the light. On my terms.
Anyway, i'll let you know the whens and wheres of that gig as soon as I'm given the go-ahead to broadcast.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
that pic reminds me...
yeah she was all like not going to reach out, you have to reach out.
i'm thinking what the hell? i'm fine. what gives you the idea i'm missing something?
then the definite hell thing. that's what pissed me off. i was fine until that. "there's a definite heaven and hell. and if you don't reach out...." It's SO judgmental! do people even realize that?
when a person is that hardcore, i just can't share my view with them. they are so programed and locked in at that point. then it gets to be a contest possibly if you do share rather than it being a convo. it's a contest because their faith just has to be stronger and better than the other persons view.
but see then you're stuck dealing with the whole, "I must spread Gods word" thing. and it potentially won't stop. how do you deal with that?
...
Back to this... I was thinking about this one... it is a common thread I run into from time to time.
I love your words of inclusion. I do not like the fact that you need to spread the word of inclusion and wish it was just part of our human nature.
thank you.
yes, i just hope i'm not shoving Inclusion down anybody's throat.
Blondie - a good aid (PAs here in the UK) are precious to have but in the end, you are the boss. If I understood correctly, you already mentioned the 'no religion' thing. Said nicely to her that she has her beliefs and you have hers and let's keep it at that shouldn't really cause a riff, should it?
My very best friend 'found god' about 15 years ago. Whilst we can have some interesting theological discussions (as I do with a priest friend of mine,etc.), we both know not to 'cross the line' and it's fine.
yup i know. i hate to fire her over this. i hope resentments don't grow now. to start her speel, She said i know you don't like religion talk... BUT....
see again with the factor attached to religion, Spread His Word.
it's so hard to find decent aides.
Post edited by blondieblue227 on
*~Pearl Jam will be blasted from speakers until morale improves~*
that pic reminds me...
yeah she was all like not going to reach out, you have to reach out.
i'm thinking what the hell? i'm fine. what gives you the idea i'm missing something?
then the definite hell thing. that's what pissed me off. i was fine until that. "there's a definite heaven and hell. and if you don't reach out...." It's SO judgmental! do people even realize that?
when a person is that hardcore, i just can't share my view with them. they are so programed and locked in at that point. then it gets to be a contest possibly if you do share rather than it being a convo. it's a contest because their faith just has to be stronger and better than the other persons view.
I agree blondieblue what gives her the idea you are missing something?
This can be a common problem for the over zealous just like PJ fans
we just wanna turn the world on to a good thing!
sometimes we find understanding by comparing it to something we can relate to
if you value this aide maybe you can find a way to accept and understand her
faith while she learns to respect your beliefs and limits
my nature tells me you could both maybe learn from each other
in my opinion ... this is living
good luck I know you and I know you'll figure the best way
I agree blondieblue what gives her the idea you are missing something?
because... i said(or posted video).... she told me all this after hearing me talk to a class about Inclusion in school.
she totally missed my point if she took: i felt nobody loves me, i have no friends ETC.
That so not what i was saying.
but shucks i'm used to Wrong Perceptions by this point in my life.
*~Pearl Jam will be blasted from speakers until morale improves~*
I agree blondieblue what gives her the idea you are missing something?
because... i said(or posted video).... she told me all this after hearing me talk to a class about Inclusion in school.
she totally missed my point if she took: i felt nobody loves me, i have no friends ETC.
That so not what i was saying.
but shucks i'm used to Wrong Perceptions by this point in my life.
yes I thought perhaps another conversation had taken place since
sorry for my mistake.
Seems religion is a big part of her support system and the answer she has found
to happiness in her life.
Hopefully sharing can become more enjoyable and less overbearing in the future,
if you value the relationship and continue.
she's a pretty cranky woman actually. lol! but i don't take it personally because it's a professional relationship. she is a pretty good aide. i respect her for that.
time will tell with us.
*~Pearl Jam will be blasted from speakers until morale improves~*
sorry to be late. thanks for all the posts to me.
...
when a person is that hardcore, i just can't share my view with them. they are so programed and locked in at that point. then it gets to be a contest possibly if you do share rather than it being a convo. it's a contest because their faith just has to be stronger and better than the other persons view.
yup i know. i hate to fire her over this. i hope resentments don't grow now. to start her speel, She said i know you don't like religion talk... BUT....
see again with the factor attached to religion, Spread His Word.
it's so hard to find decent aides.
...
Amen, Sister.
I like a good theological discussion, which I have with several friends, including an Air Force Chaplin and a friend of a friend who is a priest. The problem is... most people cannot discuss religion in an objective manner. It is too personal and when it turns to shit... it smells really bad. Most discussions turn to the point where they feel they HAVE to get their point across, that their point is right, thus, automatically making yours wrong... even if you are like me... where when it comes to religion, all views are right... in a relative (not absolute) way. Discussion typically turns to sludge and parties get defensive and use circular reasoning or just plain bullshit.
Sometimes, it's best to just let it be.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
blondie, I read your earlier posts and meant to say this before...I hope you and she can find a middleground - it's an unusual dynamic for a relationship, I would think - aide and aidee (?) - but you strike me as level-headed and strong in your convictions. This shouldn't be something you have to bear, since it seems you have other things going on on top of this. Bravo to you for not taking it personally.
One of these days, I'll share the story of a former coworker who would spend nights typing messages she was receiving from god. All of our interactions eventually focused on that, and only that. Beyond uncomfortable for me - much like the contest you spoke of.
.... All of our interactions eventually focused on that, and only that. Beyond uncomfortable for me - much like the contest you spoke of.
I think that is a common problem. The theist wanting to 'share', to 'open your heart' for you, 'save you' etc. not understanding that this is what they find comfort/happiness sometimes thinking it's the only way. Not to mention the salvation (heaven or hell) thing. The 'you'll see when the time comes' with a little knowing wink. This can be quite intrusive. Blondie - I had to let go a PA due to this kind 'intrusiveness'. It would seem the 'I'll pray for you'/'god will take care of things', etc. stuff was sort of clouding her judgement and her perception of disability (something lacking that can be filled with god? pity? Not sure how to define it....) and thus affecting her performance.
Beliefs are exactly that - beliefs (whatever they may be) and thus personal. 'Preaching' is one thing, having reasoned theological discussions is another. The latter being where one can actually learn.
yes, i just hope i'm not shoving Inclusion down anybody's throat.
yup i know. i hate to fire her over this. i hope resentments don't grow now. to start her speel, She said i know you don't like religion talk... BUT....
see again with the factor attached to religion, Spread His Word.
it's so hard to find decent aides.
I deal with inclusion issues too Blondie, having a daughter with DS and myself being temporarily disabled. I think you may remember from the past since I've spoke about this before with you. Don't ever feel like you are ever shoving inclusion down anyone's throat; it's a really important issue and there is not enough attention to this issue that everyone should be included regardless of the difference in ability. Keep up the awesome work you are doing!! You're very inspiring!
I really think that your issue with your aid could be nipped in the bud, though, with some direct communication about the preaching. If you let it go, it will never end, and you just may end up firing her because of it, because it may drive you to that point. Just sit down, choose the right way to tell her that you're not interested in being preached or talked down to, and perhaps your relationship can move on with more open communication. I've done this and it makes a world of difference. Good luck!
yes cosmo you summed it up perfectly. there's just no talking to some people about it. which is sad, but oh well.
hedonist - yikes! talk about uncomfortable. sounds like an attention seeker, or a deeply religious person, or somebody that was hearing voices and needed help.
HAHAHAHA! i'm sorry to be laughing. but funny how the three all relate.
redrock - you are right. an aide is not a 2nd mother or a friend. thou i have had aides turn into friends i try to keep it as professional as possible.
yup, it's the pity factor that is tied in with disability with some religious people. i can't stand it. but it's really flipped. i pity them them because they can't see people with disabilities for who they are. we are just fine.
just my opinion, i freggin can't stand, God will take care of it. it's so passive.
hi jeanwah! how are you?
thank you for the encouragement.
my aide hasn't brought it up since that one time, so i'm leaving it alone.
*~Pearl Jam will be blasted from speakers until morale improves~*
Comparitively in the Bible it talks about the regrowth of the "fig tree" and reflecting the meaning of Bodhi tree in Buddhism and Hinduism. I am convinced Christ teachings were also deeply rooted with eastern philosophies.
The bodhi tree was symbolic of "awake-ness" long before Prince Siddartha Gautama entered the opening of enlightenment beneath its leaves in 528 B.C..
Indeed, the name bodhi or (also known as bo) means "awakening." Even the scientific world recognizes the spiritual associations with this tree as its botanical name, ficus religiosa, means "religious fig."
The bodhi tree is sacred in India, and venerated in Bodhgaya where it is said the descendant of the original tree where the Buddha experienced spiritual awakening still grows.
Even before the Buddha's spiritual expansion sparked the revolutionary religious teachings of Buddhism, the bodhi tree symbolism was associated with Vishnu, a major archetypal Hindu god. Vishnu is the sustainer of the universe and part of the holy trinity with Brahma and Shiva completing the divine triad.
Ancient Indian art depicts Vishnu nestled amongst the delicate leaves of the bodhi, peering out through the universe with his infinite spiritual vision. It makes me wonder if the bodhi was a source of energy for Vishnu.
The bodhi tree was symbolic of "awake-ness" long before Prince Siddartha Gautama entered the opening of enlightenment beneath its leaves in 528 B.C..
Indeed, the name bodhi or (also known as bo) means "awakening." Even the scientific world recognizes the spiritual associations with this tree as its botanical name, ficus religiosa, means "religious fig."
The bodhi tree is sacred in India, and venerated in Bodhgaya where it is said the descendant of the original tree where the Buddha experienced spiritual awakening still grows.
Even before the Buddha's spiritual expansion sparked the revolutionary religious teachings of Buddhism, the bodhi tree symbolism was associated with Vishnu, a major archetypal Hindu god. Vishnu is the sustainer of the universe and part of the holy trinity with Brahma and Shiva completing the divine triad.
Ancient Indian art depicts Vishnu nestled amongst the delicate leaves of the bodhi, peering out through the universe with his infinite spiritual vision. It makes me wonder if the bodhi was a source of energy for Vishnu.
Looking at the bodhi, it wouldn't be an unreasonable assumption. It exhudes a high, bright light and fine energy. Also, what would be the difference of Celtic texts and the tree of Life. For me such teahing were kept possibly one and the same.
A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell. ~C.S. Lewis
A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell. ~C.S. Lewis
well if the word was on giant plank of common sense, then yes, he can.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Comments
Amen to that !!!
(apologies if you are not a "sir"
I don't negate religion... I admit, I don't accept it for me, but I don't ever try to shake people of their faith. I will tell them it is good for them... provides comfort and hope. And I don't care if they pray for me or not.
I just don't like it when they make it sound like they will pray for me so thay I might see their light and believe as they do... like I need to be saved. Save your prayers for the ones in need... I'm doing okay. And who knows, I may be strolling down Fairfax one day and trip over God and see the light. On my terms.
Anyway, i'll let you know the whens and wheres of that gig as soon as I'm given the go-ahead to broadcast.
Hail, Hail!!!
that pic reminds me...
yeah she was all like not going to reach out, you have to reach out.
i'm thinking what the hell? i'm fine. what gives you the idea i'm missing something?
then the definite hell thing. that's what pissed me off. i was fine until that. "there's a definite heaven and hell. and if you don't reach out...." It's SO judgmental! do people even realize that?
when a person is that hardcore, i just can't share my view with them. they are so programed and locked in at that point. then it gets to be a contest possibly if you do share rather than it being a convo. it's a contest because their faith just has to be stronger and better than the other persons view.
thank you.
yes, i just hope i'm not shoving Inclusion down anybody's throat.
yup i know. i hate to fire her over this. i hope resentments don't grow now. to start her speel, She said i know you don't like religion talk... BUT....
see again with the factor attached to religion, Spread His Word.
it's so hard to find decent aides.
This can be a common problem for the over zealous just like PJ fans
we just wanna turn the world on to a good thing!
sometimes we find understanding by comparing it to something we can relate to
if you value this aide maybe you can find a way to accept and understand her
faith while she learns to respect your beliefs and limits
my nature tells me you could both maybe learn from each other
in my opinion ... this is living
good luck I know you and I know you'll figure the best way
because... i said(or posted video).... she told me all this after hearing me talk to a class about Inclusion in school.
she totally missed my point if she took: i felt nobody loves me, i have no friends ETC.
That so not what i was saying.
but shucks i'm used to Wrong Perceptions by this point in my life.
sorry for my mistake.
Seems religion is a big part of her support system and the answer she has found
to happiness in her life.
Hopefully sharing can become more enjoyable and less overbearing in the future,
if you value the relationship and continue.
time will tell with us.
Amen, Sister.
I like a good theological discussion, which I have with several friends, including an Air Force Chaplin and a friend of a friend who is a priest. The problem is... most people cannot discuss religion in an objective manner. It is too personal and when it turns to shit... it smells really bad. Most discussions turn to the point where they feel they HAVE to get their point across, that their point is right, thus, automatically making yours wrong... even if you are like me... where when it comes to religion, all views are right... in a relative (not absolute) way. Discussion typically turns to sludge and parties get defensive and use circular reasoning or just plain bullshit.
Sometimes, it's best to just let it be.
Hail, Hail!!!
One of these days, I'll share the story of a former coworker who would spend nights typing messages she was receiving from god. All of our interactions eventually focused on that, and only that. Beyond uncomfortable for me - much like the contest you spoke of.
I wish you very well.
I think that is a common problem. The theist wanting to 'share', to 'open your heart' for you, 'save you' etc. not understanding that this is what they find comfort/happiness sometimes thinking it's the only way. Not to mention the salvation (heaven or hell) thing. The 'you'll see when the time comes' with a little knowing wink. This can be quite intrusive. Blondie - I had to let go a PA due to this kind 'intrusiveness'. It would seem the 'I'll pray for you'/'god will take care of things', etc. stuff was sort of clouding her judgement and her perception of disability (something lacking that can be filled with god? pity? Not sure how to define it....) and thus affecting her performance.
Beliefs are exactly that - beliefs (whatever they may be) and thus personal. 'Preaching' is one thing, having reasoned theological discussions is another. The latter being where one can actually learn.
I deal with inclusion issues too Blondie, having a daughter with DS and myself being temporarily disabled. I think you may remember from the past since I've spoke about this before with you. Don't ever feel like you are ever shoving inclusion down anyone's throat; it's a really important issue and there is not enough attention to this issue that everyone should be included regardless of the difference in ability. Keep up the awesome work you are doing!! You're very inspiring!
I really think that your issue with your aid could be nipped in the bud, though, with some direct communication about the preaching. If you let it go, it will never end, and you just may end up firing her because of it, because it may drive you to that point. Just sit down, choose the right way to tell her that you're not interested in being preached or talked down to, and perhaps your relationship can move on with more open communication. I've done this and it makes a world of difference. Good luck!
hedonist - yikes! talk about uncomfortable. sounds like an attention seeker, or a deeply religious person, or somebody that was hearing voices and needed help.
HAHAHAHA! i'm sorry to be laughing. but funny how the three all relate.
redrock - you are right. an aide is not a 2nd mother or a friend. thou i have had aides turn into friends i try to keep it as professional as possible.
yup, it's the pity factor that is tied in with disability with some religious people. i can't stand it. but it's really flipped. i pity them them because they can't see people with disabilities for who they are. we are just fine.
just my opinion, i freggin can't stand, God will take care of it. it's so passive.
hi jeanwah! how are you?
thank you for the encouragement.
my aide hasn't brought it up since that one time, so i'm leaving it alone.
Dont worry China bought out members of the Vatican too.
Plus the said above members also laundering money for the mob or "Italian Businessmen"
http://www.businessinsider.com/vatican- ... ign=europe
How big is the international corruption wall? Seeping and melding into your religious beliefs.
(its just the info in one of the seals of Lourdes)
pretty song ...
Hugs on Sunday
rarely do we have to work at anything but love
i fellow pj pit-er posted this on fb. (i won't tell who)
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y175/b ... 7/bhjf.jpg
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
This is a funny blog about being saved from the Zealots on the Crazy Train.
The bodhi tree was symbolic of "awake-ness" long before Prince Siddartha Gautama entered the opening of enlightenment beneath its leaves in 528 B.C..
Indeed, the name bodhi or (also known as bo) means "awakening." Even the scientific world recognizes the spiritual associations with this tree as its botanical name, ficus religiosa, means "religious fig."
The bodhi tree is sacred in India, and venerated in Bodhgaya where it is said the descendant of the original tree where the Buddha experienced spiritual awakening still grows.
Even before the Buddha's spiritual expansion sparked the revolutionary religious teachings of Buddhism, the bodhi tree symbolism was associated with Vishnu, a major archetypal Hindu god. Vishnu is the sustainer of the universe and part of the holy trinity with Brahma and Shiva completing the divine triad.
Ancient Indian art depicts Vishnu nestled amongst the delicate leaves of the bodhi, peering out through the universe with his infinite spiritual vision. It makes me wonder if the bodhi was a source of energy for Vishnu.
The bodhi tree was symbolic of "awake-ness" long before Prince Siddartha Gautama entered the opening of enlightenment beneath its leaves in 528 B.C..
Indeed, the name bodhi or (also known as bo) means "awakening." Even the scientific world recognizes the spiritual associations with this tree as its botanical name, ficus religiosa, means "religious fig."
The bodhi tree is sacred in India, and venerated in Bodhgaya where it is said the descendant of the original tree where the Buddha experienced spiritual awakening still grows.
Even before the Buddha's spiritual expansion sparked the revolutionary religious teachings of Buddhism, the bodhi tree symbolism was associated with Vishnu, a major archetypal Hindu god. Vishnu is the sustainer of the universe and part of the holy trinity with Brahma and Shiva completing the divine triad.
Ancient Indian art depicts Vishnu nestled amongst the delicate leaves of the bodhi, peering out through the universe with his infinite spiritual vision. It makes me wonder if the bodhi was a source of energy for Vishnu.
Looking at the bodhi, it wouldn't be an unreasonable assumption. It exhudes a high, bright light and fine energy. Also, what would be the difference of Celtic texts and the tree of Life. For me such teahing were kept possibly one and the same.
I think the idea of God's existence is the best way to understand the supreme arrogance of human beings.
C'mon... someone minister wants to talk about the "abstractness" parables... lets go...
Im kidding... maybe.
"He's not a think, he's a feel."
~Paul Frost
well if the word was on giant plank of common sense, then yes, he can.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014