Religious Beliefs

EmBleve

pandora wrote:

I do the same if approached by a religious person.
I respect their religion, their right to it and will listen to their words, although
I do not believe as they do.

--So do I, but not everyone feels that way. (and I can also get to a point where enough is enough, depending on the attitude of the person talking to me)

I do not think it is crowding nor pushing to offer a 'my thoughts and prayers are with you' when I am being sincere and loving. I am not asking them to believe, I am showing my love.

--I didn't mean I felt crowded or pushed in this particular context (someone saying they would pray for me--in terms of if something was going on with me, and they meant good thoughts--that's cool)...but I have felt pushed or crowded in other areas of religious discussion in the past (people with beliefs different from my own who felt it their 'duty' to 'make me see the light'--not cool)....and I think the latter is how people who don't believe in 'prayer' to a god take someone saying 'I'll pray for you'. Respect is sort of a two-way street in that way.

And that is the point .... can we not get where each other are coming from?
be kind and loving and accepting and above all lenient with each other
while listening to each others words.

--to a certain extent, yes. Everyone has a different limit.


(my other responses in the above box--trouble with the quote embed thing. arrgghh.

pandora

EmBleve wrote:

pandora wrote:

I do the same if approached by a religious person.
I respect their religion, their right to it and will listen to their words, although
I do not believe as they do.

--So do I, but not everyone feels that way. (and I can also get to a point where enough is enough, depending on the attitude of the person talking to me)

I do not think it is crowding nor pushing to offer a 'my thoughts and prayers are with you' when I am being sincere and loving. I am not asking them to believe, I am showing my love.

--I didn't mean I felt crowded or pushed in this particular context (someone saying they would pray for me--in terms of if something was going on with me, and they meant good thoughts--that's cool)...but I have felt pushed or crowded in other areas of religious discussion in the past (people with beliefs different from my own who felt it their 'duty' to 'make me see the light'--not cool)....and I think the latter is how people who don't believe in 'prayer' to a god take someone saying 'I'll pray for you'. Respect is sort of a two-way street in that way.

And that is the point .... can we not get where each other are coming from?
be kind and loving and accepting and above all lenient with each other
while listening to each others words.

--to a certain extent, yes. Everyone has a different limit.


(my other responses in the above box--trouble with the quote embed thing. arrgghh.

perhaps my post to Jon above might clarify and both sides need to show respect and love
it is the only way to happiness

Idris

blondieblue227 wrote:

MrAbraham wrote:

it's all the same thing, positive prayer is positive energy/vibes, good vibes are positive energy/vibes. It's like All energy based.

no it's not the same thing.
with prayer there's god attached.
send me good energy without YOUR god.
prayer to me is attached to religion. and any religion puts my panties in a bunch. lol! so leave it out and send me good vibes.

Well what I'm saying is prayer is energy, so are vibes, of course we should take into account intentions, as it's potential energy also.

Jump back to my previous posts regarding energy and consciousness. We should also take a good look at lucid dreaming and understanding, realization of reality and what is.

blondieblue227

ok. i'll admit. i associate prayer with god. so that's my personal problem.

EmBleve

pandora wrote:

perhaps my post to Jon above might clarify and both sides need to show respect and love
it is the only way to happiness

yes, I just saw that as I was typing my last post when it was posted...that makes more sense. although, unfortunately, I think it's a bit idealistic. :( If everyone felt that way, it would be great. Especially for the unaccepting/disinterested receiver in that case. I understand what you mean that it's about how the receiver perceives it, but if you know how x receiver feels, and you do it anyway, it's antagonistic.

pandora

EmBleve wrote:

pandora wrote:

perhaps my post to Jon above might clarify and both sides need to show respect and love
it is the only way to happiness

yes, I just saw that as I was typing my last post when it was posted...that makes more sense. although, unfortunately, I think it's a bit idealistic. :( If everyone felt that way, it would be great. Especially for the unaccepting/disinterested receiver in that case. I understand what you mean that it's about how the receiver perceives it, but if you know how x receiver feels, and you do it anyway, it's antagonistic.

if the receiver knows I send my thoughts and prayers to them based in love and not wishing them to believe nor change in any way and they will not except my love that is disrespectful.

redrock

pandora wrote:

EmBleve wrote:

pandora wrote:

perhaps my post to Jon above might clarify and both sides need to show respect and love
it is the only way to happiness

yes, I just saw that as I was typing my last post when it was posted...that makes more sense. although, unfortunately, I think it's a bit idealistic. :( If everyone felt that way, it would be great. Especially for the unaccepting/disinterested receiver in that case. I understand what you mean that it's about how the receiver perceives it, but if you know how x receiver feels, and you do it anyway, it's antagonistic.

if the receiver knows I send my thoughts and prayers to them based in love and not wishing them to believe nor change in any way and they will not except my love that is disrespectful.

As is you insisting to send your prayers knowing that they are not 'welcome'. You say it's love, the receiver may not see it that way. If you know it, why insist?

blondieblue227

rather than quote everything Paul David wrote, i'd like to say i'm really glad he shared that. i've experienced those kind of situations. it's overbearing. "Let it be."

pandora

redrock wrote:

pandora wrote:

EmBleve wrote:

yes, I just saw that as I was typing my last post when it was posted...that makes more sense. although, unfortunately, I think it's a bit idealistic. :( If everyone felt that way, it would be great. Especially for the unaccepting/disinterested receiver in that case. I understand what you mean that it's about how the receiver perceives it, but if you know how x receiver feels, and you do it anyway, it's antagonistic.

if the receiver knows I send my thoughts and prayers to them based in love and not wishing them to believe nor change in any way and they will not except my love that is disrespectful.

As is you insisting to send your prayers knowing that they are not 'welcome'. You say it's love, the receiver may not see it that way. If you know it, why insist?

Why must I change my heart because someone perceives me wrong?

I am assuming you think when someone says you are in my thoughts and prayers
or I will pray for you

that there is a alterior motive or a hope to change the atheist.
This is not the case always
if you look in the heart of the sender and not prejudge.

love is love
It is given sincerely, not attempting to change nor find fault with the receiver
it is pure love as I have stated in other posts.

Why would any one not want to receive love?

As I said it takes both sides ....if only people will try

Idris

blondieblue227 wrote:

ok. i'll admit. i associate prayer with god. so that's my personal problem.

Positive vibes at work, j/k

You know, with so much greed and corruption in this world, from corporations, companies, governments, law enforcement, religious leaders all so much bad energies, and when the truth that sits within all of us sees such corruption and lies, we turn away from it.

The truth you know inside is what's making you turn away from religion, as it should I guess, religion is covered with lies and corruption, made by mans greed and ego.

But the key is to take away that ego, find the nature of man, that is a path worth moving towards, see how deep the rabbit hole goes.

When we see commercials and news on the TV, they are not just selling a product, or just reporting news, they are controlling the population, everything they build around us is used to control the people. They create so called options, then breed people into thinking that is 'real choice', the system is built to suppress the truth, the reality.

All these institutions that we help support are all aimed at taking away what we are, these companies, governments and all in between them are guilty of this. They have turned the people into products, and each company trading human products to one another,

brandon10

Forcing your "prayer" or "love" on someone who doesn't want it is flat out creepy.

It's religious rape.

pandora

brandon10 wrote:

Forcing your "prayer" or "love" on someone who doesn't want it is flat out creepy.

It's religious rape.

g under p

brandon10 wrote:

Forcing your "prayer" or "love" on someone who doesn't want it is flat out creepy.

It's religious rape.

I would agree with that, why waste one's time if someone wants no part of it.

Peace

redrock

pandora wrote:

redrock wrote:

As is you insisting to send your prayers knowing that they are not 'welcome'. You say it's love, the receiver may not see it that way. If you know it, why insist?

Why must I change my heart because someone perceives me wrong?

I am assuming you think when someone says you are in my thoughts and prayers
or I will pray for you

that there is a alterior motive or a hope to change the atheist.
This is not the case always
if you look in the heart of the sender and not prejudge.

love is love
It is given sincerely, not attempting to change nor find fault with the receiver
it is pure love as I have stated in other posts.

Why would any one not want to receive love?

As I said it takes both sides ....if only people will try

You are assuming wrong. Assuming I think that you are looking to change me? A bit presumptuous.

You ask why you must change your heart because you are wrongly perceived? Why should the 'receiver' change his/her heart just to accommodate you?

You keep on saying that it's the receiver's 'fault'. You are misjudged/incorrectly perceived. How about turning the table? That you are perceiving the receiver in the wrong way. You seem to take it as a personal affront that one is not 'interested' in YOUR kind of love. Why? Why would anyone not want to receive love? Because they don't perceive it as such.

As you say, it takes both sides. Say your prayers if you want, don't be insensitive to those that do not wish to receive them. As I said in my earlier post, insisting sending your prayers knowing that they are not 'welcome' is disrespectful (word you used). Why is this so difficult?




As blondie said... let it be.

pandora

redrock wrote:

You are assuming wrong. Assuming I think that you are looking to change me? A bit presumptuous.

You ask why you must change your heart because you are wrongly perceived? Why should the 'receiver' change his/her heart just to accommodate you?

You keep on saying that it's the receiver's 'fault'. You are misjudged/incorrectly perceived. How about turning the table? That you are perceiving the receiver in the wrong way. You seem to take it as a personal affront that one is not 'interested' in YOUR kind of love. Why? Why would anyone not want to receive love? Because they don't perceive it as such.

As you say, it takes both sides. Say your prayers if you want, don't be insensitive to those that do not wish to receive them. As I said in my earlier post, insisting sending your prayers knowing that they are not 'welcome' is disrespectful (word you used). Why is this so difficult?




As blondie said... let it be.

this redrock just this

And I agree I see the sides but both sides can work together

I feel this way ....

it is up to the receiver how he will perceive people in general..their gestures, their opinions, their love.
and we can not be responsible for how we will be perceived and will always run the risk of being misunderstood

But we can work towards a loving situation

One should not offer love with an alterior motive,
so if a believer is saying they will pray for someone with the thought of saving them,
this is an insult to them and is not received as a sincere loving gesture.

A loving gesture has no requirements...it is giving....it is pure and it feels this way in your heart

If an atheist flatly says 'don't pray for me' they are turning away a loving gesture
and that is insulting to the one giving,
so discerning they can be and respectful of another's love even if it is based in faith.

I am hoping for more understanding on both sides.
That loving gestures of faith can be ok for an atheist because they see it is sent with love not sent with a motive to change them.
And that believers will not attempt to use prayer as a weapon or catalyst for a need for change,
that their faith is based in love to give....to give only.

It matters not what and who we believe in as long as we believe in each other and love each other
and show we love each other.

Love is contagious, as is hope and being positive, the more we give the more we will get.

redrock

pandora wrote:

...If an atheist flatly says 'don't pray for me' they are turning away a loving gesture
and that is insulting to the one giving,

YOU are saying it's a loving gesture, they may not. It can be just as insulting to the receiver. It's not because one wants to give that another one has an obligation to receive. If one gives 'unsolicited' or gives knowing it will probably not be well received, one needs to be ready to have this 'gift' turned away. Why can't you see that? Why should it be the reluctant receiver having to make the step towards your 'feelings' and not the other way around?

And this is for everything, not just your 'love'.

Also, you can be responsible for how you are perceived - it's how you project yourself. Of course, it's the receiver with the ultimate 'decision', but YOU make the impression.

I know someone who hates brownies. Say I nevertheless offer her brownies, she says no thank you. I say, but it's from the heart, I spent ages making them to my fantastic secret recipe, everyone likes them! She still says no. Do I have a right to be offended/feel insulted? No. Because I know this 'gesture' of lovingly made brownies will not be well received - so why do I insist? Masochism? An unwanted gesture is still unwanted, whatever the intentions.

pandora

redrock wrote:

pandora wrote:

...If an atheist flatly says 'don't pray for me' they are turning away a loving gesture
and that is insulting to the one giving,

YOU are saying it's a loving gesture, they may not. It can be just as insulting to the receiver. It's not because one wants to give that another one has an obligation to receive. If one gives 'unsolicited' or gives knowing it will probably not be well received, one needs to be ready to have this 'gift' turned away. Why can't you see that? Why should it be the reluctant receiver having to make the step towards your 'feelings' and not the other way around?

And this is for everything, not just your 'love'.

I know someone who hates brownies. Say I nevertheless offer her brownies, she says no thank you. I say, but it's from the heart, I spent ages making them to my fantastic secret recipe, everyone likes them! She still says no. Do I have a right to be offended/feel insulted? No. Because I know this 'gesture' of lovingly made brownies will not be well received - so why do I insist? Masochism?

You don't have to accept my love redrock, that was the point you can perceive me any way you want to and boy do you

I will repeat myself here

I am saying it is a two way effort. Atheists can allow faith based love, that is being respectful. It is up to them if they embrace it but when the intentions are pure they can be gracious to the giver.

and I'd take the frickin brownies and eat them even though I hate them and I do when offered

now if they are special brownies I will not hate them as much

redrock

pandora wrote:

... you can perceive me any way you want to and boy do you
.

Huh? You have absolutely no idea of how I perceive you. Would you like to expand on that?

pandora wrote:

I will repeat myself here

I am saying it is a two way effort. Atheists can allow faith based love, that is being respectful. It is up to them if they embrace it but when the intentions are pure they can be gracious to the giver.

OK... two way... I see you say what atheist can do - that's their effort. Where is the 'second way'? What's the 'theists' bit then? You don't mention anything (yet again). Could it be that the theist respects the atheist desires and be gracious in accepting they need not 'give'? Or are the atheists intentions not pure enough?

Random_Wookie

Is it not the purpose of any religion to convert you to there way of thinking, and the easiest way to do so is when the receiver is in some sort of trouble(e.g. grieving,in prison,homeless, poor, sick,dying). As the individual/group would be more acceptable to their way of thinking and more open to influence and corruption, and thus likely to assimilated into the fold.


** Don't worry as I typed this I have feeling I am one sick fucker **

pandora

redrock wrote:

pandora wrote:

... you can perceive me any way you want to and boy do you
.

Huh? You have absolutely no idea of how I perceive you. Would you like to expand on that?

pandora wrote:

I will repeat myself here

I am saying it is a two way effort. Atheists can allow faith based love, that is being respectful. It is up to them if they embrace it but when the intentions are pure they can be gracious to the giver.

OK... two way... I see you say what atheist can do - that's their effort. Where is the 'second way'? What's the 'theists' bit then? You don't mention anything (yet again). Could it be that the theist respects the atheist desires and be gracious in accepting they need not 'give'? Or are the atheists intentions not pure enough?

And I agree I see the sides but both sides can work together

I feel this way ....

it is up to the receiver how he will perceive people in general..their gestures, their opinions, their love.
and we can not be responsible for how we will be perceived and will always run the risk of being misunderstood

But we can work towards a loving situation

One should not offer love with an alterior motive,
so if a believer is saying they will pray for someone with the thought of saving them,
this is an insult to them and is not received as a sincere loving gesture.

A loving gesture has no requirements...it is giving....it is pure and it feels this way in your heart

If an atheist flatly says 'don't pray for me' they are turning away a loving gesture
and that is insulting to the one giving,
so discerning they can be and respectful of another's love even if it is based in faith.

I am hoping for more understanding on both sides.
That loving gestures of faith can be ok for an atheist because they see it is sent with love not sent with a motive to change them.
And that believers will not attempt to use prayer as a weapon or catalyst for a need for change,
that their faith is based in love to give....to give only.

It matters not what and who we believe in as long as we believe in each other and love each other
and show we love each other.

Love is contagious, as is hope and being positive, the more we give the more we will get.

I felt that was pretty clear