No it does not dampen the aspiration. It puts me in a place where I can choose I to move forward or not. Take for instance when a loved one passes away. Should I not accept that they are gone and then celebrate how they lived, as opposed denying their passing and to continue to mourn the way they suffered and passed on? By doing choosing to do the first action, it brings the "glimmer" into the darkness as the light..
Ah OK... Now that you explain it that way, I understand. I was just thinking a different kind of 'darkness'.
No one has to understand/analyze why I do this. I was just sharing my belief in life. Isn't that what this thread was about? I accept everyone has their own way, and to scrutinize everyone else's beliefs is to belittle them.
I seemed to have offended you :? - I wasn't trying to analyse or scrutinise or anything else, just a question on how one deals with 'acceptance'.
No worries, redrock. I now understand you just wanted an example. By the way, I have walked through very different kinds of darkness many times in my journey so far. I will probably walk through darkness again. I just used that example, because most people can relate to it.
Look Pandora, when one posts time after time that god is with us whether we believe or not, that one is "closed" because we won't let god's love in, that god is love, etc. I call that some form of preaching - quite 'sermony' (if such a word existed). Maybe you don't realise you come across that way to some.
What is wrong with 'challenging'? Have people not done this since beginning of times? Have people of faith/philosophers/men & women of science/every day people (whatever their beliefs may be) not always done so?
You take the example of the bible, rituals (ie from organised religion?) - there are challenges, arguments and counter-arguments. What is wrong with that? Seeking knowledge? Truth (which ever 'truth' this may be)?
Also, I don't think anyone called god a dirtbag. Just pointing out (challenging the written word, maybe waiting for a counter-challenge?) that there seem to be two sides to a god.
No you don't have God's love. That helps you to love others whether you know them or not
even the millions and millions, even all of humanity. It helps you to not judge and
to keep your heart open to receive love too.
I do not insult you.
Looks like you just did... :? See.. again the 'preachy' bit. I'm reading that you are implying if I did have god's love, I would probably have said I loved you too and that I love EVERYONE and that I wouldn't be such a bitch (the closed heart thing again!). So.. lack of god, lack of 'something' that would make me a better person?
Love is a deep, strong and personal attachment, not a watered down sentiment to dish out to anyone and everyone. I might say I have a liking for humanity but that is not a sentiment as strong as LOVE.
You may say you love everyone, even the likes of Hitler or any other monster you can think of because that's what god's love is. But I don't. I would not actively pursue to harm anyone like that, but I would not waste any sentiment either.
Let's just end this here. You have your views, I have mine. No further 'challenges' on my side. OK? Let it be.
, I have walked through very different kinds of darkness many times in my journey so far. I will probably walk through darkness again. I just used that example, because most people can relate to it.
And I was probably thinking of one of the 'other' types of darkness you may have walked through!
yes, I can totally understand that example about when someone dies and acceptance in those terms. But what about issues that someone feels extremely passionate about? For example, myself, it would be animal abuse. I just cannot take and no matter how I may try to 'accept' it, I simply cannot. I guess the answer would be to do what I can about it and after that it's really out of my hands..so that would be the acceptance?? Just wondering..
I guess recognising the 'situation' exists (such as animal abuse) could be the acceptance part (eg nasty stuff like that exists) but then you are in a position to do something about it since you have acknowledged it? Maybe I'm wrong.
No it does not dampen the aspiration. It puts me in a place where I can choose I to move forward or not. Take for instance when a loved one passes away. Should I not accept that they are gone and then celebrate how they lived, as opposed denying their passing and to continue to mourn the way they suffered and passed on? By doing choosing to do the first action, it brings the "glimmer" into the darkness as the light..
Ah OK... Now that you explain it that way, I understand. I was just thinking a different kind of 'darkness'.
yes, I can totally understand that example about when someone dies and acceptance in those terms. But what about issues that someone feels extremely passionate about? For example, myself, it would be animal abuse. I just cannot take and no matter how I may try to 'accept' it, I simply cannot. I guess the answer would be to do what I can about it and after that it's really out of my hands..so that would be the acceptance?? Just wondering..
I think people are misunderstanding how I define acceptance. Acceptance, to me, does not mean something ceases to exist. I am choosing to accept things from different perspectives. It means I view an event in the reality that it is, which means I accept that it may not be in my favour. Wherein, I have to accept my part of the negativity and transmute it into a positive the best way I can. If that is not enough for another person, I have to accept that too. In accepting things, I have no expectations, yet I have hope.
You accept that it animal abuse exists. Otherwise you would not feel so strongly about it. The next step is to decide how you can rectify it. In recognizing that, you must accept you cannot save them all. However, you can save some. If you can't do that, you can at the very least, report it. If that is all you can do right now, you must accept that. Since you know what that it is never-ending, you must accept that you will have ongoing work to do. Perhaps you could see it as you have found your calling in this life. :?:
, I have walked through very different kinds of darkness many times in my journey so far. I will probably walk through darkness again. I just used that example, because most people can relate to it.
And I was probably thinking of one of the 'other' types of darkness you may have walked through!
Yes. I admire and respect what shimmy is saying, and it is lovely....it's very hard to put into practice at all times, though...it's a struggle. There are varying degrees of 'darkness' and those degrees, and the degree or ease of acceptance, is subjective. But positivity and perspective help.
I think people are misunderstanding how I define acceptance. Acceptance, to me, does not mean something ceases to exist. I am choosing to accept things from different perspectives. It means I view an event in the reality that it is, which means I accept that it may not be in my favour. Wherein, I have to accept my part of the negativity and transmute it into a positive the best way I can. If that is not enough for another person, I have to accept that too. In accepting things, I have no expectations, yet I have hope.
You accept that it animal abuse exists. Otherwise you would not feel so strongly about it. The next step is to decide how you can rectify it. In recognizing that, you must accept you cannot save them all. However, you can save some. If you can't do that, you can at the very least, report it. If that is all you can do right now, you must accept that. Since you know what that it is never-ending, you must accept that you will have ongoing work to do. Perhaps you could see it as you have found your calling in this life. :?:
Thanks, Shimmy. And Redrock. Yes, that is how I see it, too, about the acknowledgment and 'acceptance' in those terms and doing what I can about it and accept that it is all I can do....it is still a struggle though to know it exists. The letting go/acceptance part of it is sometimes the hard part. ahh, the life of a tortured soul.. haha. Always been that way.. aarrgghhh. p.s... shimmy I had considered that perhaps that is my 'calling' but my emotions could not do it. I would be a basket case and probably be hoarding animals.
There are varying degrees of 'darkness' and those degrees, and the degree or ease of acceptance, is subjective. But positivity and perspective help.
Yep... it's what you have within you and your inner strength that hopefully gets you where you need to be.
I guess you sometimes want to fight this 'acceptance' because it could make you see/feel something you don't want to see or feel. Sometimes the fighting works though but I guess sometimes it could also destroy you.
Continue to enjoy your path to enlightenment, as it is said, Out beyond ideas of wrong-doing and right-doing, there is a field, I'll meet you there.
I want to thank you for you point of view. By saying that, tells me you are a "right-fighter". You feel your belief is the correct way, and therefore above all others. I accept your beliefs because they give you what you require right now.
My beliefs are not based on right or wrong. To me, dwelling on the "why" would keep me in the space between denial and acceptance. I choose to accept things whichever way they are...right or wrong. By accepting, it has brought me to a place where I can practice compassion by recognizing where others are in the denial-acceptance spectrum. My beliefs are based on acceptance on things as they are, and through that acceptance, I find joy in even the darkest moment.
“We are shaped by our thoughts; we become what we think. When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never leaves.” ~ Buddha
Thank you, Mr. Abraham. This has been enlightening.
I typed a bunch of posts in this thread (and others) regarding 'intention' and different formulas and paths toward awakening, I'll have to dig them up and maybe just make a new thread about it.
btw, that 'wrong doing' and 'right doing' line, falls into not just my view, but yours also. It's about acceptance, not just 'ideas' and 'concepts', that 'field' is a place where people walk free from ego based choice. It's a place of reality, accepting what is, and when one adds a 'pure mind', what choice is their to be made? You just know what to do. Not just sit around lost in 'ideas'.
Yes my friend, it has been enlightening for me too, :ugeek:
There are varying degrees of 'darkness' and those degrees, and the degree or ease of acceptance, is subjective. But positivity and perspective help.
Yep... it's what you have within you and your inner strength that hopefully gets you where you need to be.
I guess you sometimes want to fight this 'acceptance' because it could make you see/feel something you don't want to see or feel. Sometimes the fighting works though but I guess sometimes it could also destroy you.
yes, it could. Sometimes acceptance feels to me like defeat. hey--somewhat similar to what you had said earlier. This is why I admire people who, like shimmy has stated, just live in the IS and just BE....I would love to be like that. But me, I have a tendency, like I said, to be tortured in a sense, and worry, and question, etc...it's quite exhausting.
p.s... shimmy I had considered that perhaps that is my 'calling' but my emotions could not do it. I would be a basket case and probably be hoarding animals.
A friend is a doctor with 'Medicins sans Frontieres'. She worked (and is still working) in Africa. On a daily basis, because of lack of medicine and other resources, she needs to do a 'triage' amongst children who come to their hospital. Two groups - those they will treat because they have a bit more chance of survival, and those they can't. She knows the second group of kids will almost all die. After many years, it still gives her nightmares but she can now 'see' the other group - those that live.
p.s... shimmy I had considered that perhaps that is my 'calling' but my emotions could not do it. I would be a basket case and probably be hoarding animals.
A friend is a doctor with 'Medicins sans Frontieres'. She worked (and is still working) in Africa. On a daily basis, because of lack of medicine and other resources, she needs to do a 'triage' amongst children who come to their hospital. Two groups - those they will treat because they have a bit more chance of survival, and those they can't. She knows the second group of kids will almost all die. After many years, it still gives her nightmares but she can now 'see' the other group - those that live.
I don't think I could have her strength.
Doctors without Borders..yes, that would be extremely difficult. I am a nurse, and I have a great deal of respect for healthcare providers who do this sort of work. I have a strength in that arena that I simply could not have with animals. Strange, I know. Either way, it is wonderful to help those within your power to help and it must be a wonderful sense of accomplishment and satisfaction.
Look Pandora, when one posts time after time that god is with us whether we believe or not, that one is "closed" because we won't let god's love in, that god is love, etc. I call that some form of preaching - quite 'sermony' (if such a word existed). Maybe you don't realise you come across that way to some.
What is wrong with 'challenging'? Have people not done this since beginning of times? Have people of faith/philosophers/men & women of science/every day people (whatever their beliefs may be) not always done so?
You take the example of the bible, rituals (ie from organised religion?) - there are challenges, arguments and counter-arguments. What is wrong with that? Seeking knowledge? Truth (which ever 'truth' this may be)?
Also, I don't think anyone called god a dirtbag. Just pointing out (challenging the written word, maybe waiting for a counter-challenge?) that there seem to be two sides to a god.
No you don't have God's love. That helps you to love others whether you know them or not
even the millions and millions, even all of humanity. It helps you to not judge and
to keep your heart open to receive love too.
I do not insult you.
Looks like you just did... :? See.. again the 'preachy' bit. I'm reading that you are implying if I did have god's love, I would probably have said I loved you too and that I love EVERYONE and that I wouldn't be such a bitch (the closed heart thing again!). So.. lack of god, lack of 'something' that would make me a better person?
Love is a deep, strong and personal attachment, not a watered down sentiment to dish out to anyone and everyone. I might say I have a liking for humanity but that is not a sentiment as strong as LOVE.
You may say you love everyone, even the likes of Hitler or any other monster you can think of because that's what god's love is. But I don't. I would not actively pursue to harm anyone like that, but I would not waste any sentiment either.
Let's just end this here. You have your views, I have mine. No further 'challenges' on my side. OK? Let it be.
I do believe God is with us...that is my belief
I never said atheists are closed because they will not let Gods love in...you twist my words or hear what you want...we have been through that before.
If people agree with my words as I said its not preaching
I kind of think you preach science
The purpose of atheists is not to seek the truth from believers. They have their truth.
Are you attempting to believe in God when you challenge or learn about religion
so perhaps you can join one?
I don't think so.
Atheists challenge and question believers on their religion, often in a derogatory way,
attempting to discredit it. This as a way to validate their position of no God.
It is an endless circle because no one is going to change their beliefs from debating,
most especially when it has to do with God.
It is their core value...
I changed my position as a young woman because I let the love of God in
and it changed me and my life .
Of course that has nothing to do with anyone else. And no one could have influenced me to do it.
That was between God and I.
So now you say it is an insult to call you an atheist? ...to say you do not have Gods love...you don't want it!
Kind of contradictory and confusing to me. I was agreeing with you ....you do not have God's love
because you do not want it.
The love between people is complex but we always have room for more and more to give.
You speak of intimate love..
But there is never anything watered down about love redrock...
it is the only thing that will save this world, end the wars, bring peace to the hearts of all mankind.
We need more love whether that be God's love or an atheists love and this not saved for just a few but shared freely.
This will heal and bring compassion and eventually unconditional love which is hopefully what everyone one is striving for.
Yesterday I was seeking science from you and you pretty much shot me down because you assumed I couldn't learn what you could share...that I had my answers in God. That was not the case.
Your assumptions about me have injured what could be...this is very unfortunate.
A missed opportunity that hopefully can be repaired in the future.
The purpose of atheists is not to seek the truth from believers. They have their truth.
Are you attempting to believe in God when you challenge or learn about religion
so perhaps you can join one?
I don't think so.
Atheists challenge and question believers on their religion, often in a derogatory way,
attempting to discredit it. This as a way to validate their position of no God.
I think because many people are taught a particular religion from their parents or family, that many atheists/agnostics challenge other religions because they see too many holes as they mature.
I'm not sure if you're talking about Redrock or atheists in general, but I don't ever question someones faith or belief in God, and neither do most of the atheists I know. But I do question how people can follow a particular religion (and live by something like the Bible) that I feel is flawed (see Gimmes post below from the 40% thread which is well put):
was adam a cro magnon man? a neanderthal? what about an australopithicus? how are the fossils of primitive man explained? adam could not have named all of those creatures whatever they are called today, it would have been a series of different grunts and clicks and stuff for each animal. he could not have done any of that, let alone understood a formal language if spoken to by eve or god or a snake when he would have had the brain the size of an apple...
any thoughts on this post?
before i get into my point i wanted to say how ridiculous that website was where is said noah had dinosaurs on the ark. man did not exist at the same time as dinosaurs, so anyone who says that we co-existed has no idea what they are talking about.
now back to my prior post. how do the religious faithful explain the cro mags and neanderthals and other prehistoric man fossils? did adam get created and then devolve into these early men? that can't have happened either because carbon dating says tha these fossils are hundreds of thousands to a million years old while the religions of the world say the world is only a few thousand years old? what about dinosaur fossils that are a couple of million years old?
but you are very correct that atheists use things like this to validate thier positions.
Pandora, I am also very curious (and you dont have to answer of course because its personal), in the 40% thread you posted the pic of Noahs ark that is hanging in your study. Are you a believer in the Christian Bible and/or some of its content such as the story of Noah? because I was under the impression that you believed in a God, but a God that is outside of traditional religion. Just curious.
I also find it very interesting when someone like yourself has been an atheist for a time and then converted. I like hearing yours and others stories. I guess you have seen both sides of it. I was a follower of the Lutheran religion until I was about 15-16 I guess, but things led me to a different path...
btw, for the record, I am agnostic/atheist.. I do believe in a power (God, I dont know?), but it might just be the power of science.. not really sure. I have too many unaswered questions. This is why I cant subscribe to a particular religion. Its in my psychological make-up to question things. I cant go on blind faith. Should I suffer because of my doubts, because of my train of thought?.. should I be punished/go to hell even though I've led a life trying to do good and be a good person?
Pandora, I am also very curious (and you dont have to answer of course because its personal), in the 40% thread you posted the pic of Noahs ark that is hanging in your study. Are you a believer in the Christian Bible and/or some of its content such as the story of Noah? because I was under the impression that you believed in a God, but a God that is outside of traditional religion. Just curious.
I also find it very interesting when someone like yourself has been an atheist for a time and then converted. I like hearing yours and others stories. I guess you have seen both sides of it. I was a follower of the Lutheran religion until I was about 15-16 I guess, but things led me to a different path...
btw, for the record, I am agnostic/atheist.. I do believe in a power (God, I dont know?), but it might just be the power of science.. not really sure. I have too many unaswered questions. This is why I cant subscribe to a particular religion. Its in my psychological make-up to question things. I cant go on blind faith. Should I suffer because of my doubts, because of my train of thought?.. should I be punished/go to hell even though I've led a life trying to do good and be a good person?
Oh Jon you are wonderful person, thank you for asking and sharing
I think we all have unanswered questions ...right?
I don't believe in heaven and hell. Nor punishment... no religion fits me I guess.
Paul David said I was a theist... thats what I am
I believe we will be with God one day but I believe we are on a path
after we leave here and journey into the afterlife.
I have many unanswered questions but I feel this power that is with me always.
I wouldn't say blind faith more like a learned faith.
I feel it, its real.
It helps me understand...shows me things..gives me love to share...brings me peace...always.
It is like a finality. As though I was dead and knew everything was ok. It is very hard to explain.
I got in trouble here for saying I'd had a miracle...I now call it a phenomenon...it doesn't matter
it changed me and I know God now.
I love animals...I love the little of the story or moral or message I know.
Do you not find the picture whimsical? ...I do...the thought of 2 by 2 animals really warms my heart...
like soulmates they go... thats precious to me, I can't help but smile and get lost in that picture.
I mentioned in the other thread...cherish what we have here...thats what I take from that picture.
God's world is breathtaking, thank you very much.... God
I also have my lovely picture of Jesus Mama Lou (JB's mom) bought me as a gift one Christmas.
I celebrate Jesus' birthday and it goes on the mantle during the holidays otherwise it is here in the study.
It is beautiful...my Grandma handed one down to my Aunt and when I went there as a little girl I would see it.
It conjures good memories and hope for a better future. I told this to Mama Lou and she hunted one down for me
I can not say he is a savior but I know he was a good man who wanted people to love.
Before I leave this world I may know but right now I just can not say.
But I recognize he was great and he died and I want to honor Him for that.
Actually I hope he is the savior and returns... I can't imagine anyone not at least hoping for this.
Lutheran is what I would have been if I would have been allowed to go to church
but I think it happened for the best because I asked and I received...I found the need and found fulfillment.
Hope I answered your questions, Jon... as always I'm long winded
thanks for your patience
I mentioned in the other thread...cherish what we have here...thats what I take from that picture.
God's world is breathtaking, thank you very much.... God
The picture is fascinating.. It is wonderful to think about the diversity here on earth. its an amazing place and that is one thing that really gives me a push when pondering the existence of a God. The Earth in all of its diversity and beauty, how the heck could something so amazing come about?
Thanks for all that Pandora.. No need to apologize for long windedness!
Its good to hear some background because its easy to generalize across the internet if we don't know each other..
I mentioned in the other thread...cherish what we have here...thats what I take from that picture.
God's world is breathtaking, thank you very much.... God
The picture is fascinating.. It is wonderful to think about the diversity here on earth. its an amazing place and that is one thing that really gives me a push when pondering the existence of a God. The Earth in all of its diversity and beauty, how the heck could something so amazing come about?
Thanks for all that Pandora.. No need to apologize for long windedness!
Its good to hear some background because its easy to generalize across the internet if we don't know each other..
Again, atheists do understand that religion is man made and anyone can claim anything is their 'god' and worship or not worship but believe it has some 'powers'.
If atheists are accepting believers and their religions as their own thing,
Then why the put down?
..if atheists believe we are cool believing
why all the slam talk towards the Bible, rituals, God being a dirtball
etc etc? Wouldn't you think they would be respectful of the beliefs
and not antagonize?
If atheists are cool with it why challenge one's beliefs at all?
I mean read through the threads
I didn't want to upset you by saying God loves you too...you don't want His love
and I meant love between humans.
No you don't have God's love. That helps you to love others whether you know them or not
even the millions and millions, even all of humanity. It helps you to not judge and
to keep your heart open to receive love too.
We are not alike ...I do not insult you
you think me preaching because you don't agree with my beliefs
If I were an atheist
you wouldn't call my words preaching or patronizing cause they would be your words too
I was an atheist as a young woman, probably why I get it.
i do not accept it. i tolerate it. and i am not cool with the believing. this is not because i disrespect those who do but because to me it make no sense. no matter how i think or how i try to put myself in a believers mind and place, nothing presented to me can change my view that God does not exist. it simply makes zero sense to me.. and this came to me when i was a child. it is a position i have never faltered from and one ive never had doubt about. and for me that says a whole lot. i do not believe love comes from God and with all the reading ive done, i will never belive that love comes solely from God... if i even believed he existed.. which i dont. i cringe when a beleive upon being made aware of my atheism tells me.. well jesus/God loves you anyway. and i know this not to be true. i am looked down upon with scorn and pity because i do not subscribe to the insanity that there is a supernatural being that is responsible for my existence and my supposed saving. but lt me tell you my capacity for love and compassion is immeasureable. and it is not because of some God.. it is because i am human.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
...nothing presented to me can change my view that God does not exist. it simply makes zero sense to me...
Don't say that, we skeptics will believe when someone give us enough evidence to believe in the existence of god, it's very unlikely, but we are open to the truth, but we need evidence, and we are not asking for feelings and one person saved out of million from a disaster, fluffy clouds, the smile of a baby, etc... we are talking evidence that follows the rigorous scientific method, hard cold evidence not fallible human feelings.
"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it"
Neil deGrasse Tyson
...nothing presented to me can change my view that God does not exist. it simply makes zero sense to me...
Don't say that, we skeptics will believe when someone give us enough evidence to believe in the existence of god, it's very unlikely, but we are open to the truth, but we need evidence, and we are not asking for feelings and one person saved out of million from a disaster, fluffy clouds, the smile of a baby, etc... we are talking evidence that follows the rigorous scientific method, hard cold evidence not fallible human feelings.
sorry but im not a sceptic. richard dawkins describes himself as being a level 6 atheist.. and in doing so he does not rule out conclusively that there is no God. i do. i am solid in my conviction. he also states that hed be surprised to meet many people in what he defines as level 7 atheism.. which is 'i know there is no God as jung 'knows' there is one".. well mr dawkins has never met me.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
sorry but im not a sceptic. richard dawkins describes himself as being a level 6 atheist.. and in doing so he does not rule out conclusively that there is no God. i do. i am solid in my conviction. he also states that hed be surprised to meet many people in what he defines as level 7 atheism.. which is 'i know there is no God as jung 'knows' there is one".. well mr dawkins has never met me.
Ok I've got you catefrances=Level 7 as soon as I see Dawkins I'll tell him there's a level 7 AKA god killers
"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it"
Neil deGrasse Tyson
sorry but im not a sceptic. richard dawkins describes himself as being a level 6 atheist.. and in doing so he does not rule out conclusively that there is no God. i do. i am solid in my conviction. he also states that hed be surprised to meet many people in what he defines as level 7 atheism.. which is 'i know there is no God as jung 'knows' there is one".. well mr dawkins has never met me.
Ok I've got you catefrances=Level 7 as soon as I see Dawkins I'll tell him there's a level 7 AKA god killers
you cant kill something that never existed.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Comments
No worries, redrock. I now understand you just wanted an example. By the way, I have walked through very different kinds of darkness many times in my journey so far. I will probably walk through darkness again. I just used that example, because most people can relate to it.
I think her thoughts lovely and inspiring and something to live by.
Most especially her compassionate and nonjudgemental way of looking at others,
something to strive for ... really beautiful
It is.
What is wrong with 'challenging'? Have people not done this since beginning of times? Have people of faith/philosophers/men & women of science/every day people (whatever their beliefs may be) not always done so?
You take the example of the bible, rituals (ie from organised religion?) - there are challenges, arguments and counter-arguments. What is wrong with that? Seeking knowledge? Truth (which ever 'truth' this may be)?
Also, I don't think anyone called god a dirtbag. Just pointing out (challenging the written word, maybe waiting for a counter-challenge?) that there seem to be two sides to a god.
Looks like you just did... :? See.. again the 'preachy' bit. I'm reading that you are implying if I did have god's love, I would probably have said I loved you too and that I love EVERYONE and that I wouldn't be such a bitch (the closed heart thing again!). So.. lack of god, lack of 'something' that would make me a better person?
Love is a deep, strong and personal attachment, not a watered down sentiment to dish out to anyone and everyone. I might say I have a liking for humanity but that is not a sentiment as strong as LOVE.
You may say you love everyone, even the likes of Hitler or any other monster you can think of because that's what god's love is. But I don't. I would not actively pursue to harm anyone like that, but I would not waste any sentiment either.
Let's just end this here. You have your views, I have mine. No further 'challenges' on my side. OK? Let it be.
I guess recognising the 'situation' exists (such as animal abuse) could be the acceptance part (eg nasty stuff like that exists) but then you are in a position to do something about it since you have acknowledged it? Maybe I'm wrong.
I think people are misunderstanding how I define acceptance. Acceptance, to me, does not mean something ceases to exist. I am choosing to accept things from different perspectives. It means I view an event in the reality that it is, which means I accept that it may not be in my favour. Wherein, I have to accept my part of the negativity and transmute it into a positive the best way I can. If that is not enough for another person, I have to accept that too. In accepting things, I have no expectations, yet I have hope.
You accept that it animal abuse exists. Otherwise you would not feel so strongly about it. The next step is to decide how you can rectify it. In recognizing that, you must accept you cannot save them all. However, you can save some. If you can't do that, you can at the very least, report it. If that is all you can do right now, you must accept that. Since you know what that it is never-ending, you must accept that you will have ongoing work to do. Perhaps you could see it as you have found your calling in this life. :?:
Thank you my friend.
Thanks, Shimmy. And Redrock. Yes, that is how I see it, too, about the acknowledgment and 'acceptance' in those terms and doing what I can about it and accept that it is all I can do....it is still a struggle though to know it exists. The letting go/acceptance part of it is sometimes the hard part. ahh, the life of a tortured soul.. haha. Always been that way.. aarrgghhh. p.s... shimmy I had considered that perhaps that is my 'calling' but my emotions could not do it. I would be a basket case and probably be hoarding animals.
Yep... it's what you have within you and your inner strength that hopefully gets you where you need to be.
I guess you sometimes want to fight this 'acceptance' because it could make you see/feel something you don't want to see or feel. Sometimes the fighting works though but I guess sometimes it could also destroy you.
In that quote by The Buddha, when he say's 'when the mind is pure', a 'pure' mind he says can be attained via the The Noble Eightfold Path. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_Eightfold_Path
I typed a bunch of posts in this thread (and others) regarding 'intention' and different formulas and paths toward awakening, I'll have to dig them up and maybe just make a new thread about it.
btw, that 'wrong doing' and 'right doing' line, falls into not just my view, but yours also. It's about acceptance, not just 'ideas' and 'concepts', that 'field' is a place where people walk free from ego based choice. It's a place of reality, accepting what is, and when one adds a 'pure mind', what choice is their to be made? You just know what to do. Not just sit around lost in 'ideas'.
Yes my friend, it has been enlightening for me too, :ugeek:
A friend is a doctor with 'Medicins sans Frontieres'. She worked (and is still working) in Africa. On a daily basis, because of lack of medicine and other resources, she needs to do a 'triage' amongst children who come to their hospital. Two groups - those they will treat because they have a bit more chance of survival, and those they can't. She knows the second group of kids will almost all die. After many years, it still gives her nightmares but she can now 'see' the other group - those that live.
I don't think I could have her strength.
Not really... I've got 5 cats, I understand that!
It's believing in yourself, your strength.. you.
Though believing in yourself and your inner strength is not always easy!
I do believe God is with us...that is my belief
I never said atheists are closed because they will not let Gods love in...you twist my words or hear what you want...we have been through that before.
If people agree with my words as I said its not preaching
I kind of think you preach science
The purpose of atheists is not to seek the truth from believers. They have their truth.
Are you attempting to believe in God when you challenge or learn about religion
so perhaps you can join one?
I don't think so.
Atheists challenge and question believers on their religion, often in a derogatory way,
attempting to discredit it. This as a way to validate their position of no God.
It is an endless circle because no one is going to change their beliefs from debating,
most especially when it has to do with God.
It is their core value...
I changed my position as a young woman because I let the love of God in
and it changed me and my life .
Of course that has nothing to do with anyone else. And no one could have influenced me to do it.
That was between God and I.
So now you say it is an insult to call you an atheist? ...to say you do not have Gods love...you don't want it!
Kind of contradictory and confusing to me. I was agreeing with you ....you do not have God's love
because you do not want it.
The love between people is complex but we always have room for more and more to give.
You speak of intimate love..
But there is never anything watered down about love redrock...
it is the only thing that will save this world, end the wars, bring peace to the hearts of all mankind.
We need more love whether that be God's love or an atheists love and this not saved for just a few but shared freely.
This will heal and bring compassion and eventually unconditional love which is hopefully what everyone one is striving for.
Yesterday I was seeking science from you and you pretty much shot me down because you assumed I couldn't learn what you could share...that I had my answers in God. That was not the case.
Your assumptions about me have injured what could be...this is very unfortunate.
A missed opportunity that hopefully can be repaired in the future.
I think because many people are taught a particular religion from their parents or family, that many atheists/agnostics challenge other religions because they see too many holes as they mature.
I'm not sure if you're talking about Redrock or atheists in general, but I don't ever question someones faith or belief in God, and neither do most of the atheists I know. But I do question how people can follow a particular religion (and live by something like the Bible) that I feel is flawed (see Gimmes post below from the 40% thread which is well put):
but you are very correct that atheists use things like this to validate thier positions.
I also find it very interesting when someone like yourself has been an atheist for a time and then converted. I like hearing yours and others stories. I guess you have seen both sides of it. I was a follower of the Lutheran religion until I was about 15-16 I guess, but things led me to a different path...
btw, for the record, I am agnostic/atheist.. I do believe in a power (God, I dont know?), but it might just be the power of science.. not really sure. I have too many unaswered questions. This is why I cant subscribe to a particular religion. Its in my psychological make-up to question things. I cant go on blind faith. Should I suffer because of my doubts, because of my train of thought?.. should I be punished/go to hell even though I've led a life trying to do good and be a good person?
Oh Jon you are wonderful person, thank you for asking and sharing
I think we all have unanswered questions ...right?
I don't believe in heaven and hell. Nor punishment... no religion fits me I guess.
Paul David said I was a theist... thats what I am
I believe we will be with God one day but I believe we are on a path
after we leave here and journey into the afterlife.
I have many unanswered questions but I feel this power that is with me always.
I wouldn't say blind faith more like a learned faith.
I feel it, its real.
It helps me understand...shows me things..gives me love to share...brings me peace...always.
It is like a finality. As though I was dead and knew everything was ok. It is very hard to explain.
I got in trouble here for saying I'd had a miracle...I now call it a phenomenon...it doesn't matter
it changed me and I know God now.
I love animals...I love the little of the story or moral or message I know.
Do you not find the picture whimsical? ...I do...the thought of 2 by 2 animals really warms my heart...
like soulmates they go... thats precious to me, I can't help but smile and get lost in that picture.
I mentioned in the other thread...cherish what we have here...thats what I take from that picture.
God's world is breathtaking, thank you very much.... God
I also have my lovely picture of Jesus Mama Lou (JB's mom) bought me as a gift one Christmas.
I celebrate Jesus' birthday and it goes on the mantle during the holidays otherwise it is here in the study.
It is beautiful...my Grandma handed one down to my Aunt and when I went there as a little girl I would see it.
It conjures good memories and hope for a better future. I told this to Mama Lou and she hunted one down for me
I can not say he is a savior but I know he was a good man who wanted people to love.
Before I leave this world I may know but right now I just can not say.
But I recognize he was great and he died and I want to honor Him for that.
Actually I hope he is the savior and returns... I can't imagine anyone not at least hoping for this.
Lutheran is what I would have been if I would have been allowed to go to church
but I think it happened for the best because I asked and I received...I found the need and found fulfillment.
Hope I answered your questions, Jon... as always I'm long winded
thanks for your patience
The picture is fascinating.. It is wonderful to think about the diversity here on earth. its an amazing place and that is one thing that really gives me a push when pondering the existence of a God. The Earth in all of its diversity and beauty, how the heck could something so amazing come about?
Thanks for all that Pandora.. No need to apologize for long windedness!
Its good to hear some background because its easy to generalize across the internet if we don't know each other..
i share love... WITHOUT God. i do so through me and with every fibre of my being.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
i do not accept it. i tolerate it. and i am not cool with the believing. this is not because i disrespect those who do but because to me it make no sense. no matter how i think or how i try to put myself in a believers mind and place, nothing presented to me can change my view that God does not exist. it simply makes zero sense to me.. and this came to me when i was a child. it is a position i have never faltered from and one ive never had doubt about. and for me that says a whole lot. i do not believe love comes from God and with all the reading ive done, i will never belive that love comes solely from God... if i even believed he existed.. which i dont. i cringe when a beleive upon being made aware of my atheism tells me.. well jesus/God loves you anyway. and i know this not to be true. i am looked down upon with scorn and pity because i do not subscribe to the insanity that there is a supernatural being that is responsible for my existence and my supposed saving. but lt me tell you my capacity for love and compassion is immeasureable. and it is not because of some God.. it is because i am human.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Don't say that, we skeptics will believe when someone give us enough evidence to believe in the existence of god, it's very unlikely, but we are open to the truth, but we need evidence, and we are not asking for feelings and one person saved out of million from a disaster, fluffy clouds, the smile of a baby, etc... we are talking evidence that follows the rigorous scientific method, hard cold evidence not fallible human feelings.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Why not (V) (°,,,,°) (V) ?
sorry but im not a sceptic. richard dawkins describes himself as being a level 6 atheist.. and in doing so he does not rule out conclusively that there is no God. i do. i am solid in my conviction. he also states that hed be surprised to meet many people in what he defines as level 7 atheism.. which is 'i know there is no God as jung 'knows' there is one".. well mr dawkins has never met me.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Ok I've got you
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Why not (V) (°,,,,°) (V) ?
you cant kill something that never existed.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say