Religious Beliefs

pandora

redrock wrote:

pandora wrote:

I serve meat along with a veggie option because I am not only serving a vegetarian...

I find common ground amongst all my guests and go with that.

pandora wrote:

And I am sorry you will not except loving gestures from the heart because you can not and will not..

:roll: Yeah.... I guess I'm a cold bitch, closed mind and closed heart.... No need to feel sorry for me (condescending?) I've got plenty of love in my life.

pandora wrote:

like Eddie sings
'I used to try and kill love, it was the highest sin'
most especially because its not just exactly the way you want it....
love a 2way street and should be appreciated and not shunned.

Inside Job lyrics.. and?

I didn't know one could have enough love in their life...or too much

I thought love was always wanted and needed
if not for oneself
maybe for the one giving it?

There is always the other person to consider.

I do not feel superior to you that is what condescending means,
I feel sorry that you will not reconsider
and accept love that is given to you, in the manner the giver gives.
That is what I mean by 'I am sorry'... at the situation not sorry for you.

blondieblue227

Release_Me wrote:

In that case, I suggest you not waste your time with such people because they're just trying to get under your skin.

i try.
hard to do when so many wave their believe in my face.
don't see non-believers do that.
but that's the nature of religion. to spread it around.
you don't see non-believers prancing around asking/showing others to non-believe.

share love, not the love of your god.

Release_Me

redrock wrote:

Release_Me wrote:

The other person should appreciate the sentiment and politely tell him that he would prefer if he didn't use the word prayer, if it really bugs him that much. After that, if the person keeps saying 'I'll pray for for you' despite knowing that it irks the other person, then he isn't saying it with any degree of honesty, he just wants to annoy him. Pretty simple.

Exactly. Not necessary to go on great discourses about not accepting love, having a closed mind/heart, feeling sorry for that person etc.

If that person does not reciprocate that kind of 'love', then no need to find negative reasons/traits to try to explain to yourself why shouldn't someone want this 'marvellous' thing that you want to give.

My impression throughout was of an atheist taking offense at the mere fact that someone told him he would pray for him. That's just silly. When you're talking about someone deliberately shoving something down the other's throat, that's quite a different thing.

I have a friend who used to be an atheist and we got along fine, even while discussing religion quite a lot. That's why I'm finding it hard to grasp what could be so offensive at the mere mention of anything that happens to touch on God or belief, when it wasn't even the subject of the conversation.

pandora

This reminds me of something.....

when I am out and about... bars, restaurants, stores etc...

I say thank you and someone replies

"no problem" :? no problem that is your polite response?

it's 'you're welcome' a kind offering ...of acceptance

I see it as some strange new gesture that perhaps some feel is polite
when in fact they are expressing that I really didn't put them out, it was no problem.

Well thank you very much :( ... and I'll just take your sentiment for what it is worth,
as nerve wracking as that is.

If someone says 'my thoughts and prayers are with you'
perhaps the atheist could just shrug it off and take the sentiment for what it is worth,
as nerve wracking as that is.....
seeing that it was not meant to offend.

Release_Me

blondieblue227 wrote:

Release_Me wrote:

In that case, I suggest you not waste your time with such people because they're just trying to get under your skin.

i try.
hard to do when so many wave their believe in my face.
don't see non-believers do that.
but that's the nature of religion. to spread it around.
you don't see non-believers prancing around asking/showing others to non-believe.

share love, not the love of your god.

On the contrary, I see many non-believers shoving their lack of faith in believers' faces and explaining to them how illogical it is to believe in a God. It works both ways.

Most religions encourage their followers to invite others to their faith through their knowledge, strength of character and personal example. A believer, unless he happens to be really dense, would be able to sense if the person he is talking to is actually interested in what he has to say. Otherwise, he's just wasting his own time and energy. I've met atheists who were open to having discussions about religion, they didn't make me feel as if religion was off-limits as a topic of discussion. We may not have budged from our original positions, but we engaged in a civilized discussion all the same. If I see that someone is inquisitive about what I have to say, I will gradually open up. If not, I'll go back to minding my business.

blondieblue227

we are discussing. i mean no attack in my comments. just stating how i feel.

redrock

Release_Me wrote:

My impression throughout was of an atheist taking offense at the mere fact that someone told him he would pray for him. That's just silly. When you're talking about someone deliberately shoving something down the other's throat, that's quite a different thing.

I have a friend who used to be an atheist and we got along fine, even while discussing religion quite a lot. That's why I'm finding it hard to grasp what could be so offensive at the mere mention of anything that happens to touch on God or belief, when it wasn't even the subject of the conversation.

It's not 'taking offense at the mere fact'. If someone doesn't know - fair enough, once you know - not right. Arguments on this thread, insisting that the atheist is somewhat 'lacking' and should maybe 'reform' eg

pandora wrote:

I feel sorry that you will not reconsider.

is plain condescending.

As I said, I have a number of friends which are theist (whichever god, however they may practice religion or not), even a couple of priests. No problems, great discussions, no topic off limits. It's the MANNER in which things are said. That's all.

Release_Me

blondieblue227 wrote:

we are discussing. i mean no attack in my comments. just stating how i feel.

Of course, me too. No offense taken at all, or intended

Release_Me

redrock wrote:

Release_Me wrote:

My impression throughout was of an atheist taking offense at the mere fact that someone told him he would pray for him. That's just silly. When you're talking about someone deliberately shoving something down the other's throat, that's quite a different thing.

I have a friend who used to be an atheist and we got along fine, even while discussing religion quite a lot. That's why I'm finding it hard to grasp what could be so offensive at the mere mention of anything that happens to touch on God or belief, when it wasn't even the subject of the conversation.

It's not 'taking offense at the mere fact'. If someone doesn't know - fair enough, once you know - not right. Arguments on this thread, insisting that the atheist is somewhat 'lacking' and should maybe 'reform' eg

pandora wrote:

I feel sorry that you will not reconsider.

is plain condescending.

As I said, I have a number of friends which are theist (whichever god, however they may practice religion or not), even a couple of priests. No problems, great discussions, no topic off limits. It's the MANNER in which things are said. That's all.

No disagreements here, I don't see anything unreasonable about respecting another person's wishes. Also, I don't see anything unreasonable about someone accepting another person's well-meaning gesture, even if there was an element in it not exactly to his liking. Nothing wrong in telling the other person about it either, so he knows.

blondieblue227

Release_Me wrote:

blondieblue227 wrote:

we are discussing. i mean no attack in my comments. just stating how i feel.

Of course, me too. No offense taken at all, or intended

good.
now, i can't speak for others here.........

pandora

redrock wrote:

Release_Me wrote:

My impression throughout was of an atheist taking offense at the mere fact that someone told him he would pray for him. That's just silly. When you're talking about someone deliberately shoving something down the other's throat, that's quite a different thing.

I have a friend who used to be an atheist and we got along fine, even while discussing religion quite a lot. That's why I'm finding it hard to grasp what could be so offensive at the mere mention of anything that happens to touch on God or belief, when it wasn't even the subject of the conversation.

It's not 'taking offense at the mere fact'. If someone doesn't know - fair enough, once you know - not right. Arguments on this thread, insisting that the atheist is somewhat 'lacking' and should maybe 'reform' eg

pandora wrote:

I feel sorry that you will not reconsider.

is plain condescending.

As I said, I have a number of friends which are theist (whichever god, however they may practice religion or not), even a couple of priests. No problems, great discussions, no topic off limits. It's the MANNER in which things are said. That's all.

I'm either a victim to you or I am condescending..
this you have spoken to me many times
you choose to hear the tone.... you choose the manner ...you choose to judge
and you choose to dislike ....

redrock

pandora wrote:

I'm either a victim to you or I am condescending..
this you have spoken to me many times
you choose to hear the tone.... you choose the manner ...you choose to judge
and you choose to dislike ....

Yes, I choose to dislike the fact that it is suggested I am 'lacking' because I am not accepting 'all the love I can get' (a whole post + your responses about it). That one feels sorry for me because I won't reconsider (reconsider what?). I do not dislike prayer or religion or believers (contrary to what you may want to suggest).

I REALLY don't care what theists do or not, if one wants to pray - do it - no need to justify why by turning things onto the atheist. Do it, but not on my behalf or for me.

I am not judging belief or non belief, I am commenting on actions. You are as judgmental in your comments as you think I may be.

You believe all should accept prayers whether one believes in them or not. I say I have the perfect right not to accept them (example of the hugs was a 'physical' representation of this 'love') a. You can also just turn around and say that you don't care and that you will continue to pray.

I'll leave it at this Pandora. Your posts are a good example of what I'm trying to say when it comes to 'not shoving things down one's throat'. I don't need/believe in your prayers (or anyone else's), I don't need a whole dissertation on how I'm missing out on something, not accepting love, closed hearted, need to reconsider.

You believe you should pray and we should graciously accept, even if you know we don't believe and you feel hurt if we don't. I believe that I don't have to accept your prayers and I won't be missing out on anything.

I'm not responding to such posts anymore andI will let you have the last word, if you need to.

pandora

redrock wrote:

pandora wrote:

I'm either a victim to you or I am condescending..
this you have spoken to me many times
you choose to hear the tone.... you choose the manner ...you choose to judge
and you choose to dislike ....

Yes, I choose to dislike the fact that it is suggested I am 'lacking' because I am not accepting 'all the love I can get' (a whole post + your responses about it). That one feels sorry for me because I won't reconsider (reconsider what?). I do not dislike prayer or religion or believers (contrary to what you may want to suggest).

I REALLY don't care what theists do or not, if one wants to pray - do it - no need to justify why by turning things onto the atheist. Do it, but not on my behalf or for me.

I am not judging belief or non belief, I am commenting on actions. You are as judgmental in your comments as you think I may be.

You believe all should accept prayers whether one believes in them or not. I say I have the perfect right not to accept them (example of the hugs was a 'physical' representation of this 'love') and the perfect right to tell you I do not wish to accept them. You can also just turn around and say that you don't care and that you will continue to pray.

I'll leave it at this Pandora. Your posts are a good example of what I'm trying to say when it comes to 'not shoving things down one's throat'. I don't need/believe in your prayers (or anyone else's), I don't need a whole dissertation on how I'm missing out on something, not accepting love, closed hearted, need to reconsider.

You believe you should pray and we should graciously accept, even if you know we don't believe and you feel hurt if we don't. I believe that I don't have to accept your prayers and I won't be missing out on anything.

I'm not responding to such posts anymore andI will let you have the last word, if you need to.

Thank you ...
If you read my original post
I asked the questions to try grasp the why because I have seen it many times...
'don't pray for me'
and I don't understand it when someones motives are loving.

They are not forcing anything on the atheist just showing love the way they know how.
As in the 1 and 2 Paul David explains which I agree with, we are speaking of genuine #1


You have projected on me what you think my motives are, my tone and manner
judging where I am coming from in a negative way

And now I am more confused because you say you do not dislike prayer etc...
'but just don't do it for me I do not want it or need it.'

But if this is how some one shows love should we not accept that?
Out of respect for another human being.

Not much different then my "no problem" encounters

I accept the "no problem" reply to my thank you although
I find it rather offensive...not loving like 'you're welcome'

an atheist could accept "you are in my thoughts and prayers"?
as a kind gesture given...because that is the way it was intended.

But if an atheist does not see it as kind then they are bound to be offended,
so perhaps it is how we perceive the gesture....
and the words we write here

arq

...just a break from the debate



moving on...

EmBleve

arq wrote:

...just a break from the debate



moving on...

Seems like that should say 'but I'm interesting'.

boyo79

I think the world would be alot simpler if there was no religion. There'd certainly be less wars for a start.

Idris

boyo79 wrote:

I think the world would be alot simpler if there was no religion. There'd certainly be less wars for a start.

If people really knew God and understood religion, their would be less wars, if they really knew what religion teaches, their would be probably no wars, Citing that religion is the cause of most wars is just silly. Rather we should blame peoples own lack of understanding as being the cause of most wars.

Also you can't take the concept away, without examining many other factors of human evolution and conscience thought.

phunkymunky

boyo79 wrote:

I think the world would be alot simpler if there was no religion. There'd certainly be less wars for a start.

not all wars are started because of the belief in a religion...the current war in iraq is not based on religious belief.

if there was less greed and jealousy in the world there would be a lot fewer wars...

blondieblue227

phunkymunky wrote:

if there was less greed and jealousy in the world there would be a lot fewer wars...

or an alternative to oil.
...oh wait. there is but nobody cares because there's no money to be made off it.

Flutter Girl

I was baptised methodist, but raised Catholic by my Catholic mother (was only baptised that way cos both my parents were in the Army stationed in West Germany where I was born and he was the only priest on base..)

I know not everyone believes in this kind of thing..I've had my fair share of being called a witch or a nutter from the religious and non-religious alike..but I know what I see is real. I have seen heaven and hell (part of it, anyways). I've also been shown that our final judgement is based on how we treated others. Did we intentionally hurt others, do we truely regret it..Trust me, the terrorists who flew planes into the towers did not make it into heaven. No way, no how..

Curiously, I haven't seen a 'God' of sorts. Actually heaven is more like just a continuance of life. We don't change. If you are a human here, you will be there as well..No dying and coming back as a cougar..unless you mean the middle-aged female human kind LoL..OMG the peaceful feeling is so undescribable! It just embraces every inch of your being..it's just so absolutely beautiful..

It's kinda hard for me not to believe in heaven, and the afterlife, after seeing these things..I don't expect to be believed..I'm used to that.