college kid commits suicide after being secretly taped

know1

polaris_x wrote:

but if you are gonna point to a group that is intolerant of homosexuality - it's religious conservatives ... heck, in montana, the GOP refuses to remove the section of their policy that would make homosexuality illegal ... and catholics consider homosexuality a sin ... so, if you live in a household like that - you are gonna be taught that homosexuality is bad ...

You're stereotyping all religious conservatives based on some that you're observed...or more likely been publicized...though. Not all religious conservatives are exactly alike.

eyedclaar

81 wrote:

just to return to the military question that was asked a few pages back.

this one was a little tougher for me, and i had to sleep on it.

but you could argue, that these people made a choice to join the army (or whatever branch) and knew going in that there was a chance that might have to see battle action in a war zone and as well all know, war is hell. BUT, they still made that choice to join. I don't believe we have had a draft in some time. Now had they been drafted, i think the arguement wouldn't hold as much water. that said, i feel more for these guys than i do for the gay kid.


i have anouther one.

guy shots his wife and stepson than shoots himself because his umemployment benifits had run out and he didn't want to work for work. wife didn't work either, stepson was a carpet salesman with a 2year old kid. should i feel sad for this guy for committing suicide????

It seems like you are searching for reasons to justify feeling callous towards these people. Maybe it’s the mental illness itself that we need to be empathetic towards and not the final act. People don’t sign up to wind up crazy, it just happens. Some folks in the military deal with the most brutal things imaginable and never have a problem, other people develop severe PTSD for what doesn’t seem like a big deal, but every brain has its own snapping point. You can’t second-guess crazy unless you’ve really been there, at least in my opinion.

Your other scenario is actually why I respect the suicidal at times. When all the demons want you to hurt everyone in your path and it is everything you can do to resist that urge... See, I'd much prefer a mad dog to just kill himself then others. I don't call that person selfish, I thank Waffle they just shot themselves because it was actually quite considerate considering the alternative. Maybe even brave to silence that devil. I understand that some brains cannot be fixed, they just can't. Suicide is a viable option, but I still feel for that person because of the shape their thoughts were in. It fuckin' sucks being swallowed up in darkness.

polaris_x

know1 wrote:

You're stereotyping all religious conservatives based on some that you're observed...or more likely been publicized...though. Not all religious conservatives are exactly alike.

where have i said all religious conservatives are anything? ... are you one? ... if so, you might actually be proving my point on intolerance ...

edit: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_gays_in_montana

eyedclaar

know1 wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

but if you are gonna point to a group that is intolerant of homosexuality - it's religious conservatives ... heck, in montana, the GOP refuses to remove the section of their policy that would make homosexuality illegal ... and catholics consider homosexuality a sin ... so, if you live in a household like that - you are gonna be taught that homosexuality is bad ...

You're stereotyping all religious conservatives based on some that you're observed...or more likely been publicized...though. Not all religious conservatives are exactly alike.

No, he's really not. He's basically saying that the world is covered with 80% water and you are the one saying that he is saying the world is totally wet. Know what I mean?

dunkman

know1 wrote:

dunkman wrote:

most conservative religious families wouldn't accept the idea that their son was filmed having gay sex which was then transmitted onto the internet for all to see.... sorry to say that, but its very likely for the most part.

And you have facts to support this? I still think this is bashing.

facts? hmmmm not facts as such... more a general acceptance of thousands of years of religious intolerance towards homosexuals

lets see ... i think homosexuality is a general no-no within catholic circles. so that one is fairly easy to call

from a religious website... "Jewish, Christian, Sikh and Muslim cultures have generally perceived homosexual behaviour as sinful. Many Jewish and Christian leaders, however, have gone to great lengths to make clear that it is the homosexual acts and not the homosexual individuals or their "orientation" that is condemned. Some liberal strands of both mainstream Protestant Christianity and Reform Judaism advocate, on theological as well as social grounds, the full acceptance of homosexuals and their relationships. "


also read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_and_homosexuality

i think Satanism is the only religion that couldnt give a fuck who you fuck.

know1

polaris_x wrote:

know1 wrote:

You're stereotyping all religious conservatives based on some that you're observed...or more likely been publicized...though. Not all religious conservatives are exactly alike.

where have i said all religious conservatives are anything? ... are you one? ... if so, you might actually be proving my point on intolerance ...

edit: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_gays_in_montana

I think it's the other way around.

And yes, by theorizing, suggesting or whatever that he may have come from a conservative religious background you are bashing and stereotyping.

know1

dunkman wrote:

know1 wrote:

dunkman wrote:

most conservative religious families wouldn't accept the idea that their son was filmed having gay sex which was then transmitted onto the internet for all to see.... sorry to say that, but its very likely for the most part.

And you have facts to support this? I still think this is bashing.

facts? hmmmm not facts as such... more a general acceptance of thousands of years of religious intolerance towards homosexuals

lets see ... i think homosexuality is a general no-no within catholic circles. so that one is fairly easy to call

from a religious website... "Jewish, Christian, Sikh and Muslim cultures have generally perceived homosexual behaviour as sinful. Many Jewish and Christian leaders, however, have gone to great lengths to make clear that it is the homosexual acts and not the homosexual individuals or their "orientation" that is condemned. Some liberal strands of both mainstream Protestant Christianity and Reform Judaism advocate, on theological as well as social grounds, the full acceptance of homosexuals and their relationships. "


also read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_and_homosexuality

i think Satanism is the only religion that couldnt give a fuck who you fuck.

I'll just leave it at this, then. Since I haven't seen it mentioned ANYWHERE that he came from a conservative religious background, why would someone make it a point to suggest that? They have no reason to other than a prejudice against religious people.

polaris_x

know1 wrote:

I think it's the other way around.

And yes, by theorizing, suggesting or whatever that he may have come from a conservative religious background you are bashing and stereotyping.

are you a religious conservative?

know1

polaris_x wrote:

know1 wrote:

I think it's the other way around.

And yes, by theorizing, suggesting or whatever that he may have come from a conservative religious background you are bashing and stereotyping.

are you a religious conservative?

I'm a Christian. I have some very conservative views and others that are fairly liberal.

You need to open your mind to the fact that labels on people are almost always woefully inaccurate.

polaris_x

know1 wrote:

I'm a Christian. I have some very conservative views and others that are fairly liberal.

You need to open your mind to the fact that labels on people are almost always woefully inaccurate.

i just wish you could see the difference between labeling people and what i said but unfortunately, you are not able to ... i have my theories but it doesn't appear it's ok to postulate on this board ...

dunkman

know1 wrote:

I'll just leave it at this, then. Since I haven't seen it mentioned ANYWHERE that he came from a conservative religious background, why would someone make it a point to suggest that? They have no reason to other than a prejudice against religious people.

it hasnt been mentioned, hence the postulation... but it's not a prejudice.

I also think that its highly likely to be a CONTRIBUTING factor in this kids suicide... the reaction of his family i mean.

dunkman

know1 wrote:

You need to open your mind to the fact that labels on people are almost always woefully inaccurate.

and you have facts to support this?

know1

polaris_x wrote:

know1 wrote:

I'm a Christian. I have some very conservative views and others that are fairly liberal.

You need to open your mind to the fact that labels on people are almost always woefully inaccurate.

i just wish you could see the difference between labeling people and what i said but unfortunately, you are not able to ... i have my theories but it doesn't appear it's ok to postulate on this board ...

OK - since there's no information to support that his background is conservative religious, what if I'd come on the board to postulate that since he killed himself, he's probably an athiest?

I wish you could see how narrow minded you are when you suggest something like that when a) you really don't know and b) you apparently think all conservative religious people are exactly the same.

know1

dunkman wrote:

know1 wrote:

You need to open your mind to the fact that labels on people are almost always woefully inaccurate.

and you have facts to support this?

None anymore than your attempt at stereotyping a very large and diverse group of "religious people" as exact clones of each other.

know1

dunkman wrote:

know1 wrote:

I'll just leave it at this, then. Since I haven't seen it mentioned ANYWHERE that he came from a conservative religious background, why would someone make it a point to suggest that? They have no reason to other than a prejudice against religious people.

it hasnt been mentioned, hence the postulation... but it's not a prejudice.

I also think that its highly likely to be a CONTRIBUTING factor in this kids suicide... the reaction of his family i mean.

Well then maybe he just killed himself because his family was religious and perhaps it didn't have anything to do with the fact that he was streamed online. In fact, maybe he enjoyed the publicity, but it was his tyrannical religious family that drove him to end his life.

eyedclaar

know1 wrote:

dunkman wrote:

know1 wrote:

You need to open your mind to the fact that labels on people are almost always woefully inaccurate.

and you have facts to support this?

None anymore than your attempt at stereotyping a very large and diverse group of "religious people" as exact clones of each other.

Wall meet head. Look, when most Christian religious teaching is anti-homosexuality (I guess you can sit there and deny that all you want) then what is being theorized isn't that out of whack. I come from a very religious family (not my immediate members but EVERYONE else) and I've seen it first hand. You are right in that they aren't all intolerant to the same degree, but none of them approve.

polaris_x

know1 wrote:

OK - since there's no information to support that his background is conservative religious, what if I'd come on the board to postulate that since he killed himself, he's probably an athiest?

I wish you could see how narrow minded you are when you suggest something like that when a) you really don't know and b) you apparently think all conservative religious people are exactly the same.

dude ... no matter how many times you try an counter with slags of your own ("open-minded", "narrow-minded") - all you are doing is showing your inability to distinguish between what is a stereotype and what is a theory ...

i've shown my logic with regards to my theory ... show me yours as it pertains to his family being atheist ...

i get it tho - you are a religious conservative and your back is up ... it's similar to when people bash america - you get this auto-defensive response that lacks any objectivity ...

catefrances

it doesnt matter if his family were religiously conservative. what matters here is this guy was so humiliated by what 2 of his classmates did that he felt there was no alternative but to take his own life. the problem here is not his familys religious affiliation but the callous disregard for his privacy.

know1

polaris_x wrote:

dude ... no matter how many times you try an counter with slags of your own ("open-minded", "narrow-minded") - all you are doing is showing your inability to distinguish between what is a stereotype and what is a theory ...

i've shown my logic with regards to my theory ... show me yours as it pertains to his family being atheist ...

i get it tho - you are a religious conservative and your back is up ... it's similar to when people bash america - you get this auto-defensive response that lacks any objectivity ...

I guess we'll just have to disagree. When I saw your "enlightened" postulation, one of the things that came to mind was that you were implying he may not have killed himself if his family wasn't religious.

Whether I was right to take it from your statement or not, I did.

And I still hold there was no point whatsoever for you to even bring that up without any evidence to support it.

dunkman

know1 wrote:

Well then maybe he just killed himself because his family was religious and perhaps it didn't have anything to do with the fact that he was streamed online. In fact, maybe he enjoyed the publicity, but it was his tyrannical religious family that drove him to end his life.

look, its more likely he committed suicide because of the shame he perceived it would bring to his family than the shame of being a gay man being caught having sex online... i mean most gay men would be quite happy about that actually... what with their loose morals and their gay pride showing off parades... this guy would be an icon of 'gayness' for his video exploits

now thats a stereotype.


there have been lots of instances of men recording themselves having sex with a female and then posting it onto a website... to date i know of no story about a woman discovering this secret footage and then killing herself... so, i'm sorry, but i don't think the guy killed himself because he was put online having sex with another guy... i think he did it because of a) his family reaction and b) the reactions of others around him...

it's like he seems to have a problem accepting he is gay?

if i got secretly filmed having sex with a girl by my flatmates in college and it was on the internet i don't think i would give a toss.... but perhaps the guy couldnt admit he was gay? again, i'm guessing here, which i believe isnt allowed anymore.