i'm gonna postulate that this kid came from a very conservative religious household ...
Ahh...can't bash people for their sexuality, but no qualms about doing it for their religious affiliation.
he didnt bash the kid's religious affiliation.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
Ahh...can't bash people for their sexuality, but no qualms about doing it for their religious affiliation.
he didnt bash the kid's religious affiliation.
Really?
he made an assumption, guess, call it what you will, about the need for the kid to commit suicide... a possible reason for that suicide would be the shame it might bring upon his family if indeed that family were a conservative religious household.
where was the bashing part?
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
he made an assumption, guess, call it what you will, about the need for the kid to commit suicide... a possible reason for that suicide would be the shame it might bring upon his family if indeed that family were a conservative religious household.
he made an assumption, guess, call it what you will, about the need for the kid to commit suicide... a possible reason for that suicide would be the shame it might bring upon his family if indeed that family were a conservative religious household.
where was the bashing part?
Kind of a blanket statement, wasn't it?[/quote]
doesnt necessarily make it any less true.
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I think it's implied that a conservative religious background is so intolerant as to drive someone to suicide.
My feelings on this whole sad situation are very mixed.
On the one hand, what these people did (taping him and streaming it) was very wrong. There is no defending it. That being said, would there be nearly the outrage if it had been a heterosexual couple? I don't think so. That's kind of like discrimination, eh?
Also, I don't see how you can punish them more than the letter of the law just because their actions SEEM to have driven the kid to suicide. I say SEEM because most actions/responses in life are usually the result of a multitude of existing conditions and rarely attributable to one single cause. Likely they were a part of it - and likely a big part - but probably not the whole reason he killed himself.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I think it's implied that a conservative religious background is so intolerant as to drive someone to suicide.
My feelings on this whole sad situation are very mixed.
On the one hand, what these people did (taping him and streaming it) was very wrong. There is no defending it. That being said, would there be nearly the outrage if it had been a heterosexual couple? I don't think so. That's kind of like discrimination, eh?
Also, I don't see how you can punish them more than the letter of the law just because their actions SEEM to have driven the kid to suicide. I say SEEM because most actions/responses in life are usually the result of a multitude of existing conditions and rarely attributable to one single cause. Likely they were a part of it - and likely a big part - but probably not the whole reason he killed himself.
I think it's implied that a conservative religious background is so intolerant as to drive someone to suicide.
My feelings on this whole sad situation are very mixed.
On the one hand, what these people did (taping him and streaming it) was very wrong. There is no defending it. That being said, would there be nearly the outrage if it had been a heterosexual couple? I don't think so. That's kind of like discrimination, eh?
Also, I don't see how you can punish them more than the letter of the law just because their actions SEEM to have driven the kid to suicide. I say SEEM because most actions/responses in life are usually the result of a multitude of existing conditions and rarely attributable to one single cause. Likely they were a part of it - and likely a big part - but probably not the whole reason he killed himself.
I come from a conservative religious background and I can tell you that I was always encouraged to rely on my faith and the love of family to deal with hardships. Your assumptions are incorrect. I wager a suicide victim can come from any background. It is bigoted to say he was definitely a conservative and a christian.
I think it's implied that a conservative religious background is so intolerant as to drive someone to suicide.
My feelings on this whole sad situation are very mixed.
On the one hand, what these people did (taping him and streaming it) was very wrong. There is no defending it. That being said, would there be nearly the outrage if it had been a heterosexual couple? I don't think so. That's kind of like discrimination, eh?
Also, I don't see how you can punish them more than the letter of the law just because their actions SEEM to have driven the kid to suicide. I say SEEM because most actions/responses in life are usually the result of a multitude of existing conditions and rarely attributable to one single cause. Likely they were a part of it - and likely a big part - but probably not the whole reason he killed himself.
I come from a conservative religious background and I can tell you that I was always encouraged to rely on my faith and the love of family to deal with hardships. Your assumptions are incorrect. I wager a suicide victim can come from any background. It is bigoted to say he was definitely a conservative and a christian.
most conservative religious families wouldn't accept the idea that their son was filmed having gay sex which was then transmitted onto the internet for all to see.... sorry to say that, but its very likely for the most part.
the hardships you are talking about are things like financial, emotional fallouts with a wife, stealing an apple... i doubt they include being secretly filmed on the internet being humped by a man bear.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
I think it's implied that a conservative religious background is so intolerant as to drive someone to suicide.
My feelings on this whole sad situation are very mixed.
On the one hand, what these people did (taping him and streaming it) was very wrong. There is no defending it. That being said, would there be nearly the outrage if it had been a heterosexual couple? I don't think so. That's kind of like discrimination, eh?
Also, I don't see how you can punish them more than the letter of the law just because their actions SEEM to have driven the kid to suicide. I say SEEM because most actions/responses in life are usually the result of a multitude of existing conditions and rarely attributable to one single cause. Likely they were a part of it - and likely a big part - but probably not the whole reason he killed himself.
I come from a conservative religious background and I can tell you that I was always encouraged to rely on my faith and the love of family to deal with hardships. Your assumptions are incorrect. I wager a suicide victim can come from any background. It is bigoted to say he was definitely a conservative and a christian.
most conservative religious families wouldn't accept the idea that their son was filmed having gay sex which was then transmitted onto the internet for all to see.... sorry to say that, but its very likely for the most part.
the hardships you are talking about are things like financial, emotional fallouts with a wife, stealing an apple... i doubt they include being secretly filmed on the internet being humped by a man bear.
Yeah, completely. You obviously understand the dynamics way better than I do. Thanks for enlightening me.
just to return to the military question that was asked a few pages back.
this one was a little tougher for me, and i had to sleep on it.
but you could argue, that these people made a choice to join the army (or whatever branch) and knew going in that there was a chance that might have to see battle action in a war zone and as well all know, war is hell. BUT, they still made that choice to join. I don't believe we have had a draft in some time. Now had they been drafted, i think the arguement wouldn't hold as much water. that said, i feel more for these guys than i do for the gay kid.
i have anouther one.
guy shots his wife and stepson than shoots himself because his umemployment benifits had run out and he didn't want to work for work. wife didn't work either, stepson was a carpet salesman with a 2year old kid. should i feel sad for this guy for committing suicide????
if people want to infer things that aren't necessarily said - that is your own position and really has nothing to do with me ... if you are a religious conservative and feel defensive about my comments - i can only say it was not meant to offend but simply to find out why someone would want to kill themselves after this incident ... perhaps, he was depressed over something else, a mental illness? ... i'm not so sure ...
but if you are gonna point to a group that is intolerant of homosexuality - it's religious conservatives ... heck, in montana, the GOP refuses to remove the section of their policy that would make homosexuality illegal ... and catholics consider homosexuality a sin ... so, if you live in a household like that - you are gonna be taught that homosexuality is bad ...
sooo ... what does the guy do when he's been outed like that? ...
guy shots his wife and stepson than shoots himself because his umemployment benifits had run out and he didn't want to work for work. wife didn't work either, stepson was a carpet salesman with a 2year old kid. should i feel sad for this guy for committing suicide????
i know where you are coming from on most of this suicide part..
big difference with these 2 scenarios is that the young gay kid who was filmed was a victim of another person... he was a victim as such... the other guy was just a lazy mental fucker....
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
to postulate means to assume or suggest. its a basis for discussion as to whether something is true. it is not a definitive statement of fact.
yes ... and i requalified it with the word "theory" in a subsequent post ...
if we don't learn as a society from these things - his life would be in vain ... whatever the reason for this man to take his life - i would think that he wouldn't want anyone else to go through what he did ...
just to return to the military question that was asked a few pages back.
this one was a little tougher for me, and i had to sleep on it.
but you could argue, that these people made a choice to join the army (or whatever branch) and knew going in that there was a chance that might have to see battle action in a war zone and as well all know, war is hell. BUT, they still made that choice to join. I don't believe we have had a draft in some time. Now had they been drafted, i think the arguement wouldn't hold as much water. that said, i feel more for these guys than i do for the gay kid.
i have anouther one.
guy shots his wife and stepson than shoots himself because his umemployment benifits had run out and he didn't want to work for work. wife didn't work either, stepson was a carpet salesman with a 2year old kid. should i feel sad for this guy for committing suicide????
hey ... you don't have to feel sad for anyone ... what you show compassion for is up to you and you alone ... the issue tho is that you address it with some objective understanding ...
if you goto any suicide prevention organization - they will address many of the perceptions you have of people who commit suicide ...
and i think your example is the kind of thinking that is ultimately false ... i don't think there is anyone out there who would kill himself and family simply because he doesn't want to work anymore ...
most conservative religious families wouldn't accept the idea that their son was filmed having gay sex which was then transmitted onto the internet for all to see.... sorry to say that, but its very likely for the most part.
And you have facts to support this? I still think this is bashing.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
but if you are gonna point to a group that is intolerant of homosexuality - it's religious conservatives ... heck, in montana, the GOP refuses to remove the section of their policy that would make homosexuality illegal ... and catholics consider homosexuality a sin ... so, if you live in a household like that - you are gonna be taught that homosexuality is bad ...
You're stereotyping all religious conservatives based on some that you're observed...or more likely been publicized...though. Not all religious conservatives are exactly alike.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
just to return to the military question that was asked a few pages back.
this one was a little tougher for me, and i had to sleep on it.
but you could argue, that these people made a choice to join the army (or whatever branch) and knew going in that there was a chance that might have to see battle action in a war zone and as well all know, war is hell. BUT, they still made that choice to join. I don't believe we have had a draft in some time. Now had they been drafted, i think the arguement wouldn't hold as much water. that said, i feel more for these guys than i do for the gay kid.
i have anouther one.
guy shots his wife and stepson than shoots himself because his umemployment benifits had run out and he didn't want to work for work. wife didn't work either, stepson was a carpet salesman with a 2year old kid. should i feel sad for this guy for committing suicide????
It seems like you are searching for reasons to justify feeling callous towards these people. Maybe it’s the mental illness itself that we need to be empathetic towards and not the final act. People don’t sign up to wind up crazy, it just happens. Some folks in the military deal with the most brutal things imaginable and never have a problem, other people develop severe PTSD for what doesn’t seem like a big deal, but every brain has its own snapping point. You can’t second-guess crazy unless you’ve really been there, at least in my opinion.
Your other scenario is actually why I respect the suicidal at times. When all the demons want you to hurt everyone in your path and it is everything you can do to resist that urge... See, I'd much prefer a mad dog to just kill himself then others. I don't call that person selfish, I thank Waffle they just shot themselves because it was actually quite considerate considering the alternative. Maybe even brave to silence that devil. I understand that some brains cannot be fixed, they just can't. Suicide is a viable option, but I still feel for that person because of the shape their thoughts were in. It fuckin' sucks being swallowed up in darkness.
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You're stereotyping all religious conservatives based on some that you're observed...or more likely been publicized...though. Not all religious conservatives are exactly alike.
where have i said all religious conservatives are anything? ... are you one? ... if so, you might actually be proving my point on intolerance ...
but if you are gonna point to a group that is intolerant of homosexuality - it's religious conservatives ... heck, in montana, the GOP refuses to remove the section of their policy that would make homosexuality illegal ... and catholics consider homosexuality a sin ... so, if you live in a household like that - you are gonna be taught that homosexuality is bad ...
You're stereotyping all religious conservatives based on some that you're observed...or more likely been publicized...though. Not all religious conservatives are exactly alike.
No, he's really not. He's basically saying that the world is covered with 80% water and you are the one saying that he is saying the world is totally wet. Know what I mean?
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most conservative religious families wouldn't accept the idea that their son was filmed having gay sex which was then transmitted onto the internet for all to see.... sorry to say that, but its very likely for the most part.
And you have facts to support this? I still think this is bashing.
facts? hmmmm not facts as such... more a general acceptance of thousands of years of religious intolerance towards homosexuals
lets see ... i think homosexuality is a general no-no within catholic circles. so that one is fairly easy to call
from a religious website... "Jewish, Christian, Sikh and Muslim cultures have generally perceived homosexual behaviour as sinful. Many Jewish and Christian leaders, however, have gone to great lengths to make clear that it is the homosexual acts and not the homosexual individuals or their "orientation" that is condemned. Some liberal strands of both mainstream Protestant Christianity and Reform Judaism advocate, on theological as well as social grounds, the full acceptance of homosexuals and their relationships. "
i think Satanism is the only religion that couldnt give a fuck who you fuck.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
You're stereotyping all religious conservatives based on some that you're observed...or more likely been publicized...though. Not all religious conservatives are exactly alike.
where have i said all religious conservatives are anything? ... are you one? ... if so, you might actually be proving my point on intolerance ...
most conservative religious families wouldn't accept the idea that their son was filmed having gay sex which was then transmitted onto the internet for all to see.... sorry to say that, but its very likely for the most part.
And you have facts to support this? I still think this is bashing.
facts? hmmmm not facts as such... more a general acceptance of thousands of years of religious intolerance towards homosexuals
lets see ... i think homosexuality is a general no-no within catholic circles. so that one is fairly easy to call
from a religious website... "Jewish, Christian, Sikh and Muslim cultures have generally perceived homosexual behaviour as sinful. Many Jewish and Christian leaders, however, have gone to great lengths to make clear that it is the homosexual acts and not the homosexual individuals or their "orientation" that is condemned. Some liberal strands of both mainstream Protestant Christianity and Reform Judaism advocate, on theological as well as social grounds, the full acceptance of homosexuals and their relationships. "
i think Satanism is the only religion that couldnt give a fuck who you fuck.
I'll just leave it at this, then. Since I haven't seen it mentioned ANYWHERE that he came from a conservative religious background, why would someone make it a point to suggest that? They have no reason to other than a prejudice against religious people.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I'm a Christian. I have some very conservative views and others that are fairly liberal.
You need to open your mind to the fact that labels on people are almost always woefully inaccurate.
i just wish you could see the difference between labeling people and what i said but unfortunately, you are not able to ... i have my theories but it doesn't appear it's ok to postulate on this board ...
Comments
nope ive always known.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Ahh...can't bash people for their sexuality, but no qualms about doing it for their religious affiliation.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
he didnt bash the kid's religious affiliation.
Really?
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
he made an assumption, guess, call it what you will, about the need for the kid to commit suicide... a possible reason for that suicide would be the shame it might bring upon his family if indeed that family were a conservative religious household.
where was the bashing part?
where was the bashing part?[/quote]
Kind of a blanket statement, wasn't it?
Kind of a blanket statement, wasn't it?[/quote]
doesnt necessarily make it any less true.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
My feelings on this whole sad situation are very mixed.
On the one hand, what these people did (taping him and streaming it) was very wrong. There is no defending it. That being said, would there be nearly the outrage if it had been a heterosexual couple? I don't think so. That's kind of like discrimination, eh?
Also, I don't see how you can punish them more than the letter of the law just because their actions SEEM to have driven the kid to suicide. I say SEEM because most actions/responses in life are usually the result of a multitude of existing conditions and rarely attributable to one single cause. Likely they were a part of it - and likely a big part - but probably not the whole reason he killed himself.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I come from a conservative religious background and I can tell you that I was always encouraged to rely on my faith and the love of family to deal with hardships. Your assumptions are incorrect. I wager a suicide victim can come from any background. It is bigoted to say he was definitely a conservative and a christian.
most conservative religious families wouldn't accept the idea that their son was filmed having gay sex which was then transmitted onto the internet for all to see.... sorry to say that, but its very likely for the most part.
the hardships you are talking about are things like financial, emotional fallouts with a wife, stealing an apple... i doubt they include being secretly filmed on the internet being humped by a man bear.
Yeah, completely. You obviously understand the dynamics way better than I do. Thanks for enlightening me.
this one was a little tougher for me, and i had to sleep on it.
but you could argue, that these people made a choice to join the army (or whatever branch) and knew going in that there was a chance that might have to see battle action in a war zone and as well all know, war is hell. BUT, they still made that choice to join. I don't believe we have had a draft in some time. Now had they been drafted, i think the arguement wouldn't hold as much water. that said, i feel more for these guys than i do for the gay kid.
i have anouther one.
guy shots his wife and stepson than shoots himself because his umemployment benifits had run out and he didn't want to work for work. wife didn't work either, stepson was a carpet salesman with a 2year old kid. should i feel sad for this guy for committing suicide????
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
but if you are gonna point to a group that is intolerant of homosexuality - it's religious conservatives ... heck, in montana, the GOP refuses to remove the section of their policy that would make homosexuality illegal ... and catholics consider homosexuality a sin ... so, if you live in a household like that - you are gonna be taught that homosexuality is bad ...
sooo ... what does the guy do when he's been outed like that? ...
i know where you are coming from on most of this suicide part..
big difference with these 2 scenarios is that the young gay kid who was filmed was a victim of another person... he was a victim as such... the other guy was just a lazy mental fucker....
yes ... and i requalified it with the word "theory" in a subsequent post ...
if we don't learn as a society from these things - his life would be in vain ... whatever the reason for this man to take his life - i would think that he wouldn't want anyone else to go through what he did ...
hey ... you don't have to feel sad for anyone ... what you show compassion for is up to you and you alone ... the issue tho is that you address it with some objective understanding ...
if you goto any suicide prevention organization - they will address many of the perceptions you have of people who commit suicide ...
and i think your example is the kind of thinking that is ultimately false ... i don't think there is anyone out there who would kill himself and family simply because he doesn't want to work anymore ...
And you have facts to support this? I still think this is bashing.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
You're stereotyping all religious conservatives based on some that you're observed...or more likely been publicized...though. Not all religious conservatives are exactly alike.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
It seems like you are searching for reasons to justify feeling callous towards these people. Maybe it’s the mental illness itself that we need to be empathetic towards and not the final act. People don’t sign up to wind up crazy, it just happens. Some folks in the military deal with the most brutal things imaginable and never have a problem, other people develop severe PTSD for what doesn’t seem like a big deal, but every brain has its own snapping point. You can’t second-guess crazy unless you’ve really been there, at least in my opinion.
Your other scenario is actually why I respect the suicidal at times. When all the demons want you to hurt everyone in your path and it is everything you can do to resist that urge... See, I'd much prefer a mad dog to just kill himself then others. I don't call that person selfish, I thank Waffle they just shot themselves because it was actually quite considerate considering the alternative. Maybe even brave to silence that devil. I understand that some brains cannot be fixed, they just can't. Suicide is a viable option, but I still feel for that person because of the shape their thoughts were in. It fuckin' sucks being swallowed up in darkness.
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where have i said all religious conservatives are anything? ... are you one? ... if so, you might actually be proving my point on intolerance ...
edit: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_gays_in_montana
No, he's really not. He's basically saying that the world is covered with 80% water and you are the one saying that he is saying the world is totally wet. Know what I mean?
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facts? hmmmm not facts as such... more a general acceptance of thousands of years of religious intolerance towards homosexuals
lets see ... i think homosexuality is a general no-no within catholic circles. so that one is fairly easy to call
from a religious website... "Jewish, Christian, Sikh and Muslim cultures have generally perceived homosexual behaviour as sinful. Many Jewish and Christian leaders, however, have gone to great lengths to make clear that it is the homosexual acts and not the homosexual individuals or their "orientation" that is condemned. Some liberal strands of both mainstream Protestant Christianity and Reform Judaism advocate, on theological as well as social grounds, the full acceptance of homosexuals and their relationships. "
also read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_and_homosexuality
i think Satanism is the only religion that couldnt give a fuck who you fuck.
I think it's the other way around.
And yes, by theorizing, suggesting or whatever that he may have come from a conservative religious background you are bashing and stereotyping.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I'll just leave it at this, then. Since I haven't seen it mentioned ANYWHERE that he came from a conservative religious background, why would someone make it a point to suggest that? They have no reason to other than a prejudice against religious people.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
are you a religious conservative?
I'm a Christian. I have some very conservative views and others that are fairly liberal.
You need to open your mind to the fact that labels on people are almost always woefully inaccurate.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
i just wish you could see the difference between labeling people and what i said but unfortunately, you are not able to ... i have my theories but it doesn't appear it's ok to postulate on this board ...