Mischief in Manhattan

TriumphantAngel

prfctlefts wrote:

I think we have been more that tolerant when it comes to people of Islamic faith..

who is 'we'?

i assume you do realize that there are Millions of American Muslims. Do you not consider them to be equal to you?

TriumphantAngel

norm wrote:

http://daryllang.com/blog/4421

thanks Norm i was just going to post about this.

“Hallowed Ground”

A few photos of stuff the same distance from the World Trade Center as the “Ground Zero Cultural Centre”:

http://daryllang.com/blog/4421

Sarah Palin wrote that, “it would be an intolerable and tragic mistake to allow such a project sponsored by such an individual to go forward on such hallowed ground.”

Look at the photos. This neighborhood is not hallowed. The people who live and work here are not obsessed with 9/11. The blocks around Ground Zero are like every other hard-working neighborhood in New York, where Muslims are just another thread of the city fabric.

At this point the only argument against this project is fear, specifically fear of Muslims, and that’s a bigoted, cowardly and completely indefensible position.

bigoted indeed. and disgusting to use that as an excuse to pretend to be offended for the famililes of the victims of 9/11.

the implication is that there is something wrong with being an Arab-American or a Muslim. the ignorance that is displayed is just sad and ridiculous.

TriumphantAngel

cajunkiwi wrote:

norm wrote:

http://daryllang.com/blog/4421

If I had a family member who died on 9/11, I'd probably be much more offended by the last few photos in that essay than someone building a community center that included a mosque two blocks away.

What's more insulting? A community center trying to promote racial and religious tolerance, or people trying to make money off the tragedy? It seems to me the bigger insult is the people selling "FDNY" tshirts and WTC paperweights...

the bigots, they're all standing in line...

vomikus39

Stop with the spell checks please....

A New Yorker born and raised, and a NYC firefighter for 7 years, I support the building of the Mosque. Although I feel that those who are building this Mosque, in an effort to avoid controversy, should move up town a bit, NO ONE has the right to force them to do so. I read a lot of comments about how it is 2 blocks from ground zero, or it is no where near ground zero, believe me, it is close to it. That doesn't matter to me much, but thought I would mention it.

Muslim extremists carried out the attacks of 9/11/2001, not the true Muslim faithful. Why after so many years so many cannot understand that is sad to me. The problem?? The majority of Americans DO NOT know their history. The history of their religion and their country, and the ugly side of both. Either they don't know, don't read, or choose to ignore FACTS. I admit, if I had a loved one murdered on 9/11, maybe I would feel differently about this. People need to read, need to accept that their religion is not perfect, that the USA is not perfect, and the sad founding of this country. Instead,I feel, many are too ignorant in their false sense of patriotism. Instead of reading a book, they want to see the world burn. Instead of accepting the UGLY history of their country and their faith, they choose to hate. We,as a majority, are fucking IGNORANT!!! My feelings anyway.

WaveCameCrashin

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

a few thought on this post....

who has the best health care system in the world in your eyes????

actually it is 47 million uninsured....more people die everyday due to lack of insurance coverage than died on 9/11...why are the 9/11 victims so much more precious in your eyes?

so do you have the wealth that obama is trying to re-distribute?

why is it not a good idea? why? you have not explained it other than saying you think it is disrespectful to the families of the victims. i get that. but you have no right to tell them what to do with the land they are leasing and the building they are building. so rather than acknowledge that and move on with your life you are clinging to some bullshit excuse that it offends the families. based on those i know that lost loved ones that day that i have spoken to, myself included, i find your intolerance and your reasoning, or lack of reasoning, and emotional response very offensive. we have moved on, why can't you? stopping this mosque will not bring the dead back and building it will not tarnish their memory.

as many many posters have asked you, what in your eyes is an acceptable distance?

also, i believe you never clarified your post that triumphantangel asked you about. i and others are waiting for that as well...

I believe we have the best Health care system in the world . I said healthcare not Health INS..And just why is it that these 47 million( which IMO is a bull shit number) don't have ins ? Could it be that they lost their job or is that they choose not to have health INS or just how many of those people are illegal aliens ? Im still waiting for you to give some names of people that have died bcos the had no health INS. No one is denied medical care in our country even illegal aliens get treated..
and no Im not wealthy actually I make about 13.00 an hr.. In other words I live paycheck to paycheck,but that doesn't mean I think the Gov should take from the upper class and redistribute money as they see fit. That's not the way I was raised and it's certainly not what this country should be doing. Americans by far are the most generous when it comes to giving help to the less fortunate and like I said there are dozens of programs designed to help the less fortunate with out the gov being involved. There are also millions of people mostly young adults who don't want Health Ins for whatever reason and No ONE should be forced by the gov to have to buy it either.
If you hate the Ins companies so much then why don't you drop your health ins and just pay for it out of pocket ?

and whatever gave you the Idea that I think ones person life is greater than another. You lumping the people that were murdered on 911 with out warning and people who died bcause they were terminally ill is really odd and quit strange IMO, but I guess that's the thinking of a progressive or whatever it is you call your self

Also it's not a bullshit excuse. The facts are that people are offended by the building of the cordoba project and tha't s their right. Or is it people only have rights when you agree with them ? So For the last time, Yes they have a right to build it there if they want (and just so you know it's like a 2 min walk from ground zero) but I just don't think it's a good idea. That DOESN'T mean [ PAY ATTENTION] THAT I DON'T LIKE MUSLIMS nor does it mean that im intolerant and I have given pleanty of examples of just who the intolerant ones are,but you ignore those.. Also I think as another poster put it you need to get off your high horse.. On the pm bored you act alot different than you do on this one..

and to answer your ? about to how far awa y they should build it, I think 1 mile would be far enough..

cajunkiwi

http://www.peacefultomorrows.org/article.php?id=977

This seems like a good time to bring up that there's an organized group of 9/11 families who support the Cordoba Initiative...

"September 11th Families for Peaceful Tomorrows strongly supports efforts to bring an Islamic Cultural Center to lower Manhattan, near the Ground Zero site. We believe that welcoming the Center, which is intended to promote interfaith tolerance and respect, is consistent with fundamental American values of freedom and justice for all.

We believe, too, that this building will serve as an emblem for the rest of the world that Americans stand against violence, intolerance and overt acts of racism and that we recognize that the evil acts of a few must never damn the innocent."

So how much weight do you give their personal feelings vs those of the family members who don't want it there?

gimmesometruth27

cajunkiwi wrote:

http://www.peacefultomorrows.org/article.php?id=977

This seems like a good time to bring up that there's an organized group of 9/11 families who support the Cordoba Initiative...

"September 11th Families for Peaceful Tomorrows strongly supports efforts to bring an Islamic Cultural Center to lower Manhattan, near the Ground Zero site. We believe that welcoming the Center, which is intended to promote interfaith tolerance and respect, is consistent with fundamental American values of freedom and justice for all.

We believe, too, that this building will serve as an emblem for the rest of the world that Americans stand against violence, intolerance and overt acts of racism and that we recognize that the evil acts of a few must never damn the innocent."

So how much weight do you give their personal feelings vs those of the family members who don't want it there?

i would like to hear this one myself...

norm

"There is a difference between what you can do and what you should do. For instance, you can build a Catholic church next to a playground. Should you?" - John Oliver on the "Ground Zero Mosque" controversy

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-a ... sque-erade

vomikus39

norm wrote:

"There is a difference between what you can do and what you should do. For instance, you can build a Catholic church next to a playground. Should you?" - John Oliver on the "Ground Zero Mosque" controversy

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-a ... sque-erade

I like this point. I am in favor of allowing a Mosque being built near Ground Zero, because those who want to are free to do so. In an attempt to avoid yet another controversy, should you?

Commy

vomikus39 wrote:

norm wrote:

"There is a difference between what you can do and what you should do. For instance, you can build a Catholic church next to a playground. Should you?" - John Oliver on the "Ground Zero Mosque" controversy

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-a ... sque-erade

I like this point. I am in favor of allowing a Mosque being built near Ground Zero, because those who want to are free to do so. In an attempt to avoid yet another controversy, should you?

ugh. its not a mosque.



to take jon olivers point further....you can blame an entire religion for the actions of a few radical individuals.....should you?

vomikus39

Commy wrote:

vomikus39 wrote:

norm wrote:

"There is a difference between what you can do and what you should do. For instance, you can build a Catholic church next to a playground. Should you?" - John Oliver on the "Ground Zero Mosque" controversy

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-a ... sque-erade

I like this point. I am in favor of allowing a Mosque being built near Ground Zero, because those who want to are free to do so. In an attempt to avoid yet another controversy, should you?

ugh. its not a mosque.



to take jon olivers point further....you can blame an entire religion for the actions of a few radical individuals.....should you?

I feel you are distorting his point. Of course you should not condemn an entire religion for the actions of a minority. If we did that, where would Christianity be today? I feel that many conservatives conveniently forget about the Crusades, or they are too unread to even know what they were. Anyway, like I said, a Mosque (or whatever you think it is) should be built there. My point was that in an attempt to avoid the shit storm that has already come with it, should you? Sometimes it's better not to do things even if you are free to do so. I could slap a woman, but should I? These questions are endless.