Mischief in Manhattan

ed243421

_outlaw wrote:

unsung wrote:

So if we are supposed to be willing to accept other religions and their freedoms to worship can we build some cathedrals in Mecca?

Is New York City all of a sudden a christian city? or jewish? or is it supposed to be a representation of freedom of religion and worship? this is a horrible analogy. Saudi Arabia and subsequently the city of Mecca have overwhelming Muslim populations and it's an Islamic country and city. building a cathedral there is not useful at all. on the other hand, New York City is home to nearly a million Muslims and tons more going in and out everyday. it's usefulness is very obvious. if NYC was to purport an image of being a Christian city (so if it would prevent the building of a synagogue, hindu temple, etc, in addition to the mosque as Saudi Arabia would do in addition to a cathedral, that is one thing). however, this is clearly just targeting one group of people and thus is just a display of intolerance. nothing less. the people who are against this don't give a shit about those who died on 9/11!! they are just using this to push a political agenda and some of you idiots actually bought it! i know a kid whose dad died on 9/11, this kid is like 13 years old and guess what, he's Muslim. but does anyone give a shit about these people's opinion? no.

and since when do those whose family died on 9/11 claim a moral high ground over anyone else? because when it comes to the ethical stance on this issue, it is completely unethical to prevent the building of a mosque anywhere. islam is not responsible for 9/11, crazy people are. I'm sick of these same people acting like they respect the religion too - just fucking admit that you're an intolerant bigot already.

also the muslims who wrote the article are just idiots, no different than the dumb ass mexican people the neocons found to go to townhall meetings and speak out in favor of the racist arizona law. their whole argument is flawed because it's based on a stupid assumption that the mosque was built to provoke people, when it was clearly not. and no Muslim should be forced to build a church and a synagogue in addition to a mosque, just like no christian or jew should be forced to build anything other than their own house of worship.

outlaw you know your shit
good man

unsung, you are so funny

vomikus39

Born and raised in NYC, and being a member of the FDNY, I admit I am not thrilled with the idea of a Mosque being built near the WTC. However, a hypocrite is something I do my best avoid being, so with that said, we enjoy religious freedom in our country, and that includes all religions. So I don't see that there is a choice here, we must allow them to build one. On the flip side, it is a poor decision on the part of those behind this Mosque to want to open it there. Just common sense, why start a shit storm? It's not urgent or an extreme priority to build one there, they should avoid the controversy and go uptown a little bit.

FiveB247x

Anyone ever consider the idea that they'd like a mosque in that area to represent what Islam and Muslims really represent, not what others have warped it into and now associate with it?

TriumphantAngel

let's get something straight.

supporters of Islam (including men, women, and children), were also killed during the 9/11 attacks. they were Americans just like you. contrary to popular beliefs amongst some around here, American lives are not worth more than what you consider non-American lives. one life is just as precious as the next.

just admit you are islamophobics, it's as simple as that. nothing more, nothing less. what is the point of holding onto your bitterness and condemning an entire religion because of the actions of a few?

and trust you to be more concerned about this, than the fact that there is still a giant, gaping, massive hole in the ground. it's a disgrace. surely the great America shouldn't take ten years to rebuild. but hey, i guess as long as there is a hole in the gound, the Politicans can use that to keep the fear going can't they.

you want to be outraged, then be outraged at the Politicians. they created this mess. their foreigin policy decisions is what made and still makes America a target. you don't care about though, you just want to demonize an entire population of people because of the actions of a few.

maybe you should just put a giant cut out of breaker morant in that hole in the ground you have forgotten about, with a sign that says his words,"this is what comes of empire-building"

Commy

TriumphantAngel wrote:

let's get something straight.

supporters of Islam (including men, women, and children), were also killed during the 9/11 attacks. they were Americans just like you. contrary to popular beliefs amongst some around here, American lives are not worth more than what you consider non-American lives. one life is just as precious as the next.

just admit you are islamophobics, it's as simple as that. nothing more, nothing less. what is the point of holding onto your bitterness and condemning an entire religion because of the actions of a few?

and trust you to be more concerned about this, than the fact that there is still a giant, gaping, massive hole in the ground. it's a disgrace. surely the great America shouldn't take ten years to rebuild. but hey, i guess as long as there is a hole in the gound, the Politicans can use that to keep the fear going can't they.

you want to be outraged, then be outraged at the Politicians. they created this mess. their foreigin policy decisions is what made and still makes America a target. you don't care about though, you just want to demonize an entire population of people because of the actions of a few.

maybe you should just put a giant cut out of breaker morant in that hole in the ground you have forgotten about, with a sign that says his words,"this is what comes of empire-building"

this ^

cajunkiwi

TriumphantAngel wrote:

let's get something straight.

supporters of Islam (including men, women, and children), were also killed during the 9/11 attacks. they were Americans just like you. contrary to popular beliefs amongst some around here, American lives are not worth more than what you consider non-American lives. one life is just as precious as the next.

just admit you are islamophobics, it's as simple as that. nothing more, nothing less. what is the point of holding onto your bitterness and condemning an entire religion because of the actions of a few?

and trust you to be more concerned about this, than the fact that there is still a giant, gaping, massive hole in the ground. it's a disgrace. surely the great America shouldn't take ten years to rebuild. but hey, i guess as long as there is a hole in the gound, the Politicans can use that to keep the fear going can't they.

you want to be outraged, then be outraged at the Politicians. they created this mess. their foreigin policy decisions is what made and still makes America a target. you don't care about though, you just want to demonize an entire population of people because of the actions of a few.

maybe you should just put a giant cut out of breaker morant in that hole in the ground you have forgotten about, with a sign that says his words,"this is what comes of empire-building"

That, I think, is the real tragedy here - that nine years after it happened it's still a hole in the ground.

mikepegg44

cincybearcat wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

blackredyellow wrote:

The right is so against government telling people what to do, and interfering with people's lives, but for stuff like this they want the government to step in and decide what can be built where.

exactly. I hate republicans who pose as libertarians when it is convenient for them. They don't understand that you cannot have it both ways. Either you want the government to intervene or you don't...you cannot have it do so only when it is convenient. Republicans seemingly have lost their way,

So what is a building permit?

See we already have the government deciding what can be built...even when you are trying to build a deck on the back of your house.

Permits just really tell the city that there is a project happening and thus allows them to make sure it is up to code. You don't have to tell me about ridiculous building requirements, I worked in new construction.
The more important thing here is does this building violate any zoning requirements already in place..if no then there isn't a reason it cannot be built. If someone wanted to keep this land as sacred or whatever they should have bought it themselves and turned it into something.

cajunkiwi

prfctlefts wrote:

cajunkiwi wrote:

Oh, so NOW the Christians find it morally offensive that people want to come into their country and practice their own religion.

Christians: enjoying the view from the moral high ground since...

I think I might start a campaign to get all Catholic churches shut down - I hear they're breeding grounds for sodomy and child molestation.

(note: I actually have no beef whatsoever with people of any religion, I just find hypocrisy to be distasteful).

Hypocracy ?? WTF are you talking about. Why don't you go and ask any christian church how many hoops they have to jump through if they want to build a church somewhere. Did you even read the article ? does the fact that both of the authors are MUSLIMS even open your eyes.
it doesn't have a damn thing to do with freedom of religion. People can worship their damn toes if they want. You can even worship SATAN if you want. NOBODY GIVES A DAMN !!! It's the location. I guess you just cant seem to wrap that around your brain. If they would have planed to bulid it 2 miles from their no one would care.

My point is that Christians have spent the last few thousand years going into other peoples' countries and building their churches wherever they want. And, in case you're not up-to-date on your world history, they weren't always invited in to build their churches and spread their religion. Often, they tortured and killed people in the name of their god.

Now, as I said before (and I'll try to use small words to help you keep up), I have no problem with religious people. I don't think all Catholics are pedophiles. I don't think all Christians bomb abortion clinics. I don't think all Christians are responsible for the Oklahoma City bombing. The religious people I know would be horrified to be lumped in with the likes of Timothy McVeigh simply because they prayed to the same god.

However, a lot of people in this country don't feel a need to extend that same courtesy to other religions. To them, the fact that a couple of assholes who happened to be Muslim flew two planes into two buildings, killing several thousand people - including innocent Muslims - is reason enough to punish everyone who is a Muslim. They're not building a mosque on the site of Ground Zero - they're building a community center that has a mosque on one of the floors two blocks away. If two blocks away is still too close, where would you prefer they build it? I don't know if you saw the Daily Show last night, but let me sum up one of the segments for you: people all across the country have been protesting whenever Muslims tried to build a mosque in their neighborhood. It didn't matter if it was New York, Tennessee, Wisconsin, or California - if they tried to build a mosque, people got pissed off. To them, all Muslims are guilty of 9/11 - which is just as stupid a statement as me saying all Christians are pedophiliac abortion clinic bombers who blew up the federal building in OKC.

But yet, to the protesters who happen follow the religion that spent 2,000 years killing people and putting up churches worldwide to promote its own god, there's no hypocrisy there. Despite the atrocities committed throughout the millennia in the name of Christianity, these same people (the protesters who happen to be Christian... not Christians overall) see no problem with denying another religion's request to build a place of worship.

And to the people saying "Why don't they build churches in Saudi Arabia" - to paraphrase the Daily Show again, why are you holding yourself to Saudi Arabia's standards? If you really want to be the biggest and best nation on the planet, why don't you hold yourself to a higher standard and set an example for everyone else? "We're not going to let you build a mosque at our place because you won't build a church at your place" is hardly setting a standard the rest of the world should aspire to. That's a level of reasoning typically reserved for pre-teen kids.

julesandian

I'm not really qualified to comment, but I have found this thread very interesting.

I have worked in Birmingham, England for the last 5 years on upgrading social housing across predominately Muslim areas of the city. I have found that although the people I have met at times have seemed strange to me as going into another cultures home, especially during their religous times and festivals is difficult as I am uknowing of the beliefs and "rules" (can't think how to explain myself better than this) that these families live by but apart from the occasional asshole (nothing to do with religion - just an asshole, plenty of christian one of those as well etc) I have had my eyes opened to a warm, friendly, open and educated religion.

It's wasted on me tho, I grew up in a Jehovah's Witness family so have kind of moved away from the idea of any kind of organised religion, but I'm rambling so back to my point.

I believe that the area around something like Ground Zero should not have any new dedicated singular religous buildings erected. I have never been to NY but have always heard that it is one of the most multicultural cities in the world. It should be shown that it isn't about Muslims, Christians, Jews, Americans, Saudi's, (many nationalities lost their life on the planes, and the towers I believe not just Americans) or anything other than a monument to the human beings that lost their lives on such a terrible day. I think there should be a beautiful garden created for the city to share. Not for a chance to show their culture is something or not, but just to be able to go to to mourn, to think, to show respect.

Every religion has blood on its hand in one way or another, so we all share a responsibility to evolve our minds.

Sorry if my lack of politics is out of place in this thread, but I think that if people were just allowed to be people life would be much better for everyone.

cincybearcat

TriumphantAngel wrote:

let's get something straight.


just admit you are islamophobics, it's as simple as that. nothing more, nothing less.

Who is "you"?

cincybearcat

mikepegg44 wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

exactly. I hate republicans who pose as libertarians when it is convenient for them. They don't understand that you cannot have it both ways. Either you want the government to intervene or you don't...you cannot have it do so only when it is convenient. Republicans seemingly have lost their way,

So what is a building permit?

See we already have the government deciding what can be built...even when you are trying to build a deck on the back of your house.

Permits just really tell the city that there is a project happening and thus allows them to make sure it is up to code. You don't have to tell me about ridiculous building requirements, I worked in new construction.
The more important thing here is does this building violate any zoning requirements already in place..if no then there isn't a reason it cannot be built. If someone wanted to keep this land as sacred or whatever they should have bought it themselves and turned it into something.

I agree with you. Just pointing out that the government does already have input (if they want it) into what gets built where.

The question is...would it be a problem for people if it were a Christian church?

fuck

cajunkiwi wrote:

And to the people saying "Why don't they build churches in Saudi Arabia" - to paraphrase the Daily Show again, why are you holding yourself to Saudi Arabia's standards? If you really want to be the biggest and best nation on the planet, why don't you hold yourself to a higher standard and set an example for everyone else? "We're not going to let you build a mosque at our place because you won't build a church at your place" is hardly setting a standard the rest of the world should aspire to. That's a level of reasoning typically reserved for pre-teen kids.

While I agree with the rest of your post completely, I have to say that this particularly stood out to me on here and on the Daily Show because I actually disagree with this method of argument. Like another poster, I believe it was unsung, said on here about 'what would happen if we tried to build a church in Mecca?' I don't think the only appropriate response to the "we can't build a church in Mecca so they can't build a mosque in NYC" argument should be "we have the moral high ground over Saudi Arabia." Mecca is a sacred Islamic city. Asking to build a church in Mecca would be like a Muslim asking to build a mosque in Vatican City, it makes no sense. Americans shouldn't accept the building of a mosque in NYC simply because they think it makes them better than Saudi Arabia, this is supposed to be a country where all religions have equal freedom. it's about the principle of equality, not about having the moral high ground.

TriumphantAngel

cincybearcat wrote:

TriumphantAngel wrote:

let's get something straight.


just admit you are islamophobics, it's as simple as that. nothing more, nothing less.

Who is "you"?

you = anyone who condemns an entire religion and people, because of the actions of a few.

TriumphantAngel

cincybearcat wrote:

The question is...would it be a problem for people if it were a Christian church?

maybe those that have a problem with it can answer this

TriumphantAngel

this behaviour makes me feel ill. there is so much wrong with this i don't even know where to start. anyone who condemns an entire religion and people, because of the actions of a few, has serious issues. i am really worried for the safety and well being of ordinary American muslims after listening to some of this, I thought the hate directed at Obama was bad when people thought he was a Muslim, but this is even worse if that's possible.

and fuck you Sarah Palin with your fear mongering. it's people like you who feed this rubbish and it's people like you who will be responsible for innocent people being attacked, injured, abused and shunned by the only place they consider home. it's their home too. how dare you treat people like this.

you and the rest of the haters should be more ashamed of yourself than usual.

Ground Zero mosque plans 'fuelling anti-Muslim protests across US'

Religious leaders warn of Islamophobia surge with hate speech and opposition to new Islamic centres across America...



Many religious leaders have spoken out against Muslim-bashing, including rabbis in New York who have defended the plans for the mosque two blocks from the site of the 9/11 attacks, which would not be visible from Ground Zero.

But John Esposito, director of the Centre for Muslim-Christian Understanding at Georgetown University, said many Americans shared Jones's views. He said the dispute over the proposed mosque had given cover for more open hostility unleashed after the 9/11 attacks that was evident during the last presidential election when some of Barack Obama's opponents attempted to portray him as a Muslim.

In New York, a group called the American Freedom Defence Initiative is placing adverts on New York buses showing a plane flying into one of the World Trade Centre towers and what it calls a "Mega Mosque" and asking "Why There?".

Azeem Khan, of the Islamic Circle of North America, said the bus adverts promoted fear and hatred. "People want Islam and Muslims to be the boogieman right now," he said.

The issue is increasingly being exploited by politicians in the run-up to November's mid-term elections. Opposition to a mosque in Murfreesboro, Tennessee, intensified after Republican candidates for Congress and state governor made opposition part of their campaigns.

Sarah Palin, the former vice presidential candidate, has been a vocal opponent of the controversial New York mosque


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/au ... lamophobia

WaveCameCrashin

Cosmo wrote:

markin ball wrote:

What would Jesus do?

...
My guess... Jesus would forgive.
...
But... what the hell do I know... I'm not a Christian.

obviously..

cajunkiwi

prfctlefts wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

markin ball wrote:

What would Jesus do?

...
My guess... Jesus would forgive.
...
But... what the hell do I know... I'm not a Christian.

obviously..

Didn't Jesus preach love, tolerance, and non-violence?

I saw this on a bumper sticker the other day: We kill people who kill people to prove that killing people is wrong.

WaveCameCrashin

TriumphantAngel wrote:

this behaviour makes me feel ill. there is so much wrong with this i don't even know where to start. anyone who condemns an entire religion and people, because of the actions of a few, has serious issues. i am really worried for the safety and well being of ordinary American muslims after listening to some of this, I thought the hate directed at Obama was bad when people thought he was a Muslim, but this is even worse if that's possible.

and fuck you Sarah Palin with your fear mongering. it's people like you who feed this rubbish and it's people like you who will be responsible for innocent people being attacked, injured, abused and shunned by the only place they consider home. it's their home too. how dare you treat people like this.

you and the rest of the haters should be more ashamed of yourself than usual.

Ground Zero mosque plans 'fuelling anti-Muslim protests across US'

Religious leaders warn of Islamophobia surge with hate speech and opposition to new Islamic centres across America...



Many religious leaders have spoken out against Muslim-bashing, including rabbis in New York who have defended the plans for the mosque two blocks from the site of the 9/11 attacks, which would not be visible from Ground Zero.

But John Esposito, director of the Centre for Muslim-Christian Understanding at Georgetown University, said many Americans shared Jones's views. He said the dispute over the proposed mosque had given cover for more open hostility unleashed after the 9/11 attacks that was evident during the last presidential election when some of Barack Obama's opponents attempted to portray him as a Muslim.

In New York, a group called the American Freedom Defence Initiative is placing adverts on New York buses showing a plane flying into one of the World Trade Centre towers and what it calls a "Mega Mosque" and asking "Why There?".

Azeem Khan, of the Islamic Circle of North America, said the bus adverts promoted fear and hatred. "People want Islam and Muslims to be the boogieman right now," he said.

The issue is increasingly being exploited by politicians in the run-up to November's mid-term elections. Opposition to a mosque in Murfreesboro, Tennessee, intensified after Republican candidates for Congress and state governor made opposition part of their campaigns.

Sarah Palin, the former vice presidential candidate, has been a vocal opponent of the controversial New York mosque


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/au ... lamophobia

While were at it what about building a memorial site of Japanese Kamizake pilots where USS Arizona was sunk in Pearl Harbor to promote understanding and forgiveness?
You really need to get a life.. No one NO ONE IS ADVOCATING ATTACKS ON MUSLIMS.. nor are they condeming thier religion. Maybe you and others will get that through your thick skull. Then again you not being from here or american you probably wont.These people have every damn right to speak out against this mosque. Also people want to know where the funding is coming from. Which Abdual raulf refuses to let anyone know..





Simon Deng, who was enslaved as a child by Arabs in his native land, Sudan, addresses rally.

Slavery, genocide, terrorism and sharia must not be tolerated. Many Americans, including Mayor Bloomberg, don’t understand enough about what Islamic countries are like. Even in the more moderate moslem countries, like Egypt, churches are burned and there is no tolerance of other religions.

There are moslems who understand that the location for the mosque is a bad idea too. In an editorial in today’s Boston Globe, Jeff Jacoby writes:

“Stephen Suleyman Schwartz, a devout Muslim and director of the Center for Islamic Pluralism in Washington, notes that the spiritual leader of the Cordoba Initiative, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, describes himself as a Sufi — a Muslim focused onIslamic mysticism and spiritual wisdom. But “building a 15-story Islamic center at ground zero isn’t something a Sufi would do,’’ according to Schwartz, also a practitioner of Sufism. “Sufism is supposed to be based on sensitivity toward others,’’ yet Cordoba House comes across as “grossly insensitive.’’ He rejects Rauf’s stance that a highly visible Muslim presence at ground zero is the way to make a statement opposing what happened on 9/11. Better, in his view, is the approach of many Muslims “who hate terrorism and who have gone privately to the site and recited prayers for the dead silently and unperceived by others.’’

FiveB247x

This guys comments reflect a person characterizing the actions of a nation, not a religion. All those corrupt nations aren't practicing Islam, they're simply exemplifying poor human rights abuses.

prfctlefts wrote:

While were at it what about building a memorial site of Japanese Kamizake pilots where USS Arizona was sunk in Pearl Harbor to promote understanding and forgiveness?
You really need to get a life.. No one NO ONE IS ADVOCATING ATTACKS ON MUSLIMS.. nor are they condeming thier religion. Maybe you and others will get that through your thick skull. Then again you not being from here or american you probably wont.These people have every damn right to speak out against this mosque. Also people want to know where the funding is coming from. Which Abdual raulf refuses to let anyone know..

Simon Deng, who was enslaved as a child by Arabs in his native land, Sudan, addresses rally.

Slavery, genocide, terrorism and sharia must not be tolerated. Many Americans, including Mayor Bloomberg, don’t understand enough about what Islamic countries are like. Even in the more moderate moslem countries, like Egypt, churches are burned and there is no tolerance of other religions.

There are moslems who understand that the location for the mosque is a bad idea too. In an editorial in today’s Boston Globe, Jeff Jacoby writes:

“Stephen Suleyman Schwartz, a devout Muslim and director of the Center for Islamic Pluralism in Washington, notes that the spiritual leader of the Cordoba Initiative, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, describes himself as a Sufi — a Muslim focused onIslamic mysticism and spiritual wisdom. But “building a 15-story Islamic center at ground zero isn’t something a Sufi would do,’’ according to Schwartz, also a practitioner of Sufism. “Sufism is supposed to be based on sensitivity toward others,’’ yet Cordoba House comes across as “grossly insensitive.’’ He rejects Rauf’s stance that a highly visible Muslim presence at ground zero is the way to make a statement opposing what happened on 9/11. Better, in his view, is the approach of many Muslims “who hate terrorism and who have gone privately to the site and recited prayers for the dead silently and unperceived by others.’’

gimmesometruth27

prfctlefts wrote:

TriumphantAngel wrote:

this behaviour makes me feel ill. there is so much wrong with this i don't even know where to start. anyone who condemns an entire religion and people, because of the actions of a few, has serious issues. i am really worried for the safety and well being of ordinary American muslims after listening to some of this, I thought the hate directed at Obama was bad when people thought he was a Muslim, but this is even worse if that's possible.

and fuck you Sarah Palin with your fear mongering. it's people like you who feed this rubbish and it's people like you who will be responsible for innocent people being attacked, injured, abused and shunned by the only place they consider home. it's their home too. how dare you treat people like this.

you and the rest of the haters should be more ashamed of yourself than usual.

Ground Zero mosque plans 'fuelling anti-Muslim protests across US'

Religious leaders warn of Islamophobia surge with hate speech and opposition to new Islamic centres across America...



Many religious leaders have spoken out against Muslim-bashing, including rabbis in New York who have defended the plans for the mosque two blocks from the site of the 9/11 attacks, which would not be visible from Ground Zero.

But John Esposito, director of the Centre for Muslim-Christian Understanding at Georgetown University, said many Americans shared Jones's views. He said the dispute over the proposed mosque had given cover for more open hostility unleashed after the 9/11 attacks that was evident during the last presidential election when some of Barack Obama's opponents attempted to portray him as a Muslim.

In New York, a group called the American Freedom Defence Initiative is placing adverts on New York buses showing a plane flying into one of the World Trade Centre towers and what it calls a "Mega Mosque" and asking "Why There?".

Azeem Khan, of the Islamic Circle of North America, said the bus adverts promoted fear and hatred. "People want Islam and Muslims to be the boogieman right now," he said.

The issue is increasingly being exploited by politicians in the run-up to November's mid-term elections. Opposition to a mosque in Murfreesboro, Tennessee, intensified after Republican candidates for Congress and state governor made opposition part of their campaigns.

Sarah Palin, the former vice presidential candidate, has been a vocal opponent of the controversial New York mosque


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/au ... lamophobia

While were at it what about building a memorial site of Japanese Kamizake pilots where USS Arizona was sunk in Pearl Harbor to promote understanding and forgiveness?
You really need to get a life.. No one NO ONE IS ADVOCATING ATTACKS ON MUSLIMS.. nor are they condeming thier religion. Maybe you and others will get that through your thick skull. Then again you not being from here or american you probably wont.These people have every damn right to speak out against this mosque. Also people want to know where the funding is coming from. Which Abdual raulf refuses to let anyone know..





Simon Deng, who was enslaved as a child by Arabs in his native land, Sudan, addresses rally.

Slavery, genocide, terrorism and sharia must not be tolerated. Many Americans, including Mayor Bloomberg, don’t understand enough about what Islamic countries are like. Even in the more moderate moslem countries, like Egypt, churches are burned and there is no tolerance of other religions.

There are moslems who understand that the location for the mosque is a bad idea too. In an editorial in today’s Boston Globe, Jeff Jacoby writes:

“Stephen Suleyman Schwartz, a devout Muslim and director of the Center for Islamic Pluralism in Washington, notes that the spiritual leader of the Cordoba Initiative, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, describes himself as a Sufi — a Muslim focused onIslamic mysticism and spiritual wisdom. But “building a 15-story Islamic center at ground zero isn’t something a Sufi would do,’’ according to Schwartz, also a practitioner of Sufism. “Sufism is supposed to be based on sensitivity toward others,’’ yet Cordoba House comes across as “grossly insensitive.’’ He rejects Rauf’s stance that a highly visible Muslim presence at ground zero is the way to make a statement opposing what happened on 9/11. Better, in his view, is the approach of many Muslims “who hate terrorism and who have gone privately to the site and recited prayers for the dead silently and unperceived by others.’’

saying we should build a memorial at the uss arizona to honor kamikazi pilots is just plain stupid and it is not even remotely the same example as what is going on in new york. the kamikaze pilots were a militqry force ordered by a foreign government to carry out a mission and provoke us into a world war. these 19 whackos were religious extremists that were ordered by osama bin laden and a fe other religious extremists to take down the internationsl businesses in the world trade center, and attack the pentagon, where our oppressive foreign policy decisions and plans are made and from whence they are carried out. the us government and the president of the united states were made aware that this attack was iminent. it can be debated that roosevelt knew about pearl harbor or whatever, but these situations are clearly different.

this is a religious/worship center that promotes peace and culture and promotes unity, AND IT IS NOT GOING TO BE BUILT ON THE FUCKING SITE OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER!!! it is going 2 blocks away, and in new york 2 blocks is not as close as you would think. go ahead and build that memorial if you like if it is 2 blocks away from the arizona....i would just stop filling my head with right wing radio examples and talking points if i were you...