Mischief in Manhattan
Comments
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_outlaw wrote:
Is New York City all of a sudden a christian city? or jewish? or is it supposed to be a representation of freedom of religion and worship? this is a horrible analogy. Saudi Arabia and subsequently the city of Mecca have overwhelming Muslim populations and it's an Islamic country and city. building a cathedral there is not useful at all. on the other hand, New York City is home to nearly a million Muslims and tons more going in and out everyday. it's usefulness is very obvious. if NYC was to purport an image of being a Christian city (so if it would prevent the building of a synagogue, hindu temple, etc, in addition to the mosque as Saudi Arabia would do in addition to a cathedral, that is one thing). however, this is clearly just targeting one group of people and thus is just a display of intolerance. nothing less. the people who are against this don't give a shit about those who died on 9/11!! they are just using this to push a political agenda and some of you idiots actually bought it! i know a kid whose dad died on 9/11, this kid is like 13 years old and guess what, he's Muslim. but does anyone give a shit about these people's opinion? no.unsung wrote:So if we are supposed to be willing to accept other religions and their freedoms to worship can we build some cathedrals in Mecca?
and since when do those whose family died on 9/11 claim a moral high ground over anyone else? because when it comes to the ethical stance on this issue, it is completely unethical to prevent the building of a mosque anywhere. islam is not responsible for 9/11, crazy people are. I'm sick of these same people acting like they respect the religion too - just fucking admit that you're an intolerant bigot already.
also the muslims who wrote the article are just idiots, no different than the dumb ass mexican people the neocons found to go to townhall meetings and speak out in favor of the racist arizona law. their whole argument is flawed because it's based on a stupid assumption that the mosque was built to provoke people, when it was clearly not. and no Muslim should be forced to build a church and a synagogue in addition to a mosque, just like no christian or jew should be forced to build anything other than their own house of worship.
Where do people like you come from ??? No one is claiming the MORAL HIGH GROUND.. and So just bcos you dissagree with the article the two authors are idiots ? It also sounds like you don't have a damn clue about why people are pissed off. Also im highly offended by you sayingthis is clearly just targeting one group of people and thus is just a display of intolerance. nothing less. the people who are against this don't give a shit about those who died on 9/11!! they are just using this to push a political agenda/quote]
Really ? ??? You don't know a damn thing about me or anyone else for that matter.. And this is why I can't stand people like you or people that think like you.0 -
gimmesometruth27 wrote:this is a religious/worship center that promotes peace and culture and promotes unity, AND IT IS NOT GOING TO BE BUILT ON THE FUCKING SITE OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER!!! it is going 2 blocks away, and in new york 2 blocks is not as close as you would think. go ahead and build that memorial if you like if it is 2 blocks away from the arizona....i would just stop filling my head with right wing radio examples and talking points if i were you...[/quot
Well obviously it's close enough to it because the landidng gear actually fell through the roof of the old Burlington Coat factory building which is where they want to build this place.
and im not trying to fill your head with anything.. Im just trying to make a point,but obviously your mind is already made up..Not that we ever agree on anything anyway. I still think the question still needs to be answered to where is the money coming from ?
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/ground ... 66712Among the concerns raised about Abdul Rauf and the proposed Islamic center:
Jasser says Abdul Rauf has refused to condemn Hamas or Hezbollah out of concern for alienating some Muslims. "It's just absurd that he can't identify groups that use terrorism as a means as corrupt and unIslamic," Jasser says. "So this is why the money is very important."
Abdul Rauf recently wrote a commentary published on HuffingtonPost.com that compared Shariah with the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution. "He is completely misrepresenting what Shariah really is," Jasser warns. "We are not a theocracy, canon law is not part of Western society, and our laws are based on a separation of powers and an Establishment clause that could never be interpreted the way Shariah law is [as] simply the domain of clerics. I think it's very deceptive for him to say that and it shows that he's really not a reformist, but an apologist."
The New York Post has reported that Abdul Rauf is a "prominent member" of the Malaysian-based Perdana Global Peace Organization. That is the single largest donor to the Free Gaza Movement, which in turn played a key role in organizing the violence-marred flotilla that tried to break the Israeli blockade of the Gaza Strip. Deborah Burlingame, sister of an American Airlines pilot who died on 9/11, told the Post: "I think it goes to show he is not the man he represents himself to be. We have two Imam Raufs."
The Anti-Defamation League caught many civil rights groups by surprise when it came out against the ground zero mosque. ADL leader Abe Foxman told NPR Tuesday that if Cordoba's leaders sincere in their desire to encourage inter-faith harmony and understanding, the best way to accomplish that objective would be to move the facility to a less controversial location.
Even the name Cordoba is controversial. Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich has written that the name derives from "a city in Spain where a conquering Muslim army replaced a church with a mosque. This name is a very direct historical indication that the ground zero mosque is all about conquest and thus an assertion of Islamist triumphalism which we should not tolerate."
Shortly after 9/11, Abdul Rauf strongly denounced the attacks, saying on "60 Minutes" that "Fanaticism and terrorism have no place in Islam." But he also remarked: "I wouldn't say that the United States deserved what happened, but United States policies were an accessory to the crime that happened."
Jasser says the financing is important because the ideas and teachings of a mosque can be greatly influenced by those who are footing the bill.
Abdul Rauf has been a voice of reason within the Muslim community at times. Shortly after the Fort Hood shootings in Texas, for example, he decried the violence as a "senseless act."
"What this unfortunate Army major did was against the laws of Islam," Abdul Rauf wrote on his site's blog. "He obviously was violating his faith when he undertook this act. Killing is as much a sin in Islam as it is in Christianity, Judaism and all the major religions. Taking the law into one's own hands is against Islamic teachings."
Imam Feisal is a Sufi Muslim, which has been described as more centered on spiritual pursuits than on strict rituals. The FBI has officially credited Imam Feisal with helping the agency to reach out to Muslims in the aftermath of 9/11. He founded the American Society for Muslim Advancement in 1997, a group aimed at bringing Muslims and non-Muslims together through academic and cultural programs. His biography states he holds a B.S. in physics from Columbia University. His wife has won several awards for promoting interfaith understanding.
Jasser credits Abdul Rauf with being "very nonviolent."
"He has condemned terrorism as a tactic, and he's pretty smooth when it comes to these things," Jasser tells Newsmax. "But yet he's an apologist for political Islam and Shariah. You can't help but think he's part of the same Islamist ideas of wanting to spread Islam in an evangelical way globally, and probably establish an Islamic state."
Newsmax contacted Abdul Rauf's office seeking his comment on the lawsuit and the financing. His assistant replied via e-mail: "Imam Feisal is still out of town and will not be available for an interview."0 -
where does the money come from for building anything? why is it a concern of yours or anyone elses? i still stand by my contention that the people that are the loudest against this mosque are the ones that did not know a soul that was lost that day...prfctlefts wrote:gimmesometruth27 wrote:this is a religious/worship center that promotes peace and culture and promotes unity, AND IT IS NOT GOING TO BE BUILT ON THE FUCKING SITE OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER!!! it is going 2 blocks away, and in new york 2 blocks is not as close as you would think. go ahead and build that memorial if you like if it is 2 blocks away from the arizona....i would just stop filling my head with right wing radio examples and talking points if i were you...[/quot
Well obviously it's close enough to it because the landidng gear actually fell through the roof of the old Burlington Coat factory building which is where they want to build this place.
and im not trying to fill your head with anything.. Im just trying to make a point,but obviously your mind is already made up..Not that we ever agree on anything anyway. I still think the question still needs to be answered to where is the money coming from ?
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/ground ... 66712Among the concerns raised about Abdul Rauf and the proposed Islamic center:
Jasser says Abdul Rauf has refused to condemn Hamas or Hezbollah out of concern for alienating some Muslims. "It's just absurd that he can't identify groups that use terrorism as a means as corrupt and unIslamic," Jasser says. "So this is why the money is very important."
Abdul Rauf recently wrote a commentary published on HuffingtonPost.com that compared Shariah with the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution. "He is completely misrepresenting what Shariah really is," Jasser warns. "We are not a theocracy, canon law is not part of Western society, and our laws are based on a separation of powers and an Establishment clause that could never be interpreted the way Shariah law is [as] simply the domain of clerics. I think it's very deceptive for him to say that and it shows that he's really not a reformist, but an apologist."
The New York Post has reported that Abdul Rauf is a "prominent member" of the Malaysian-based Perdana Global Peace Organization. That is the single largest donor to the Free Gaza Movement, which in turn played a key role in organizing the violence-marred flotilla that tried to break the Israeli blockade of the Gaza Strip. Deborah Burlingame, sister of an American Airlines pilot who died on 9/11, told the Post: "I think it goes to show he is not the man he represents himself to be. We have two Imam Raufs."
The Anti-Defamation League caught many civil rights groups by surprise when it came out against the ground zero mosque. ADL leader Abe Foxman told NPR Tuesday that if Cordoba's leaders sincere in their desire to encourage inter-faith harmony and understanding, the best way to accomplish that objective would be to move the facility to a less controversial location.
Even the name Cordoba is controversial. Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich has written that the name derives from "a city in Spain where a conquering Muslim army replaced a church with a mosque. This name is a very direct historical indication that the ground zero mosque is all about conquest and thus an assertion of Islamist triumphalism which we should not tolerate."
Shortly after 9/11, Abdul Rauf strongly denounced the attacks, saying on "60 Minutes" that "Fanaticism and terrorism have no place in Islam." But he also remarked: "I wouldn't say that the United States deserved what happened, but United States policies were an accessory to the crime that happened."
Jasser says the financing is important because the ideas and teachings of a mosque can be greatly influenced by those who are footing the bill.
Abdul Rauf has been a voice of reason within the Muslim community at times. Shortly after the Fort Hood shootings in Texas, for example, he decried the violence as a "senseless act."
"What this unfortunate Army major did was against the laws of Islam," Abdul Rauf wrote on his site's blog. "He obviously was violating his faith when he undertook this act. Killing is as much a sin in Islam as it is in Christianity, Judaism and all the major religions. Taking the law into one's own hands is against Islamic teachings."
Imam Feisal is a Sufi Muslim, which has been described as more centered on spiritual pursuits than on strict rituals. The FBI has officially credited Imam Feisal with helping the agency to reach out to Muslims in the aftermath of 9/11. He founded the American Society for Muslim Advancement in 1997, a group aimed at bringing Muslims and non-Muslims together through academic and cultural programs. His biography states he holds a B.S. in physics from Columbia University. His wife has won several awards for promoting interfaith understanding.
Jasser credits Abdul Rauf with being "very nonviolent."
"He has condemned terrorism as a tactic, and he's pretty smooth when it comes to these things," Jasser tells Newsmax. "But yet he's an apologist for political Islam and Shariah. You can't help but think he's part of the same Islamist ideas of wanting to spread Islam in an evangelical way globally, and probably establish an Islamic state."
Newsmax contacted Abdul Rauf's office seeking his comment on the lawsuit and the financing. His assistant replied via e-mail: "Imam Feisal is still out of town and will not be available for an interview."
and why are we back to condeming an entire population for the actions of a few???"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
jesus man no one is condeming anyone !!!
LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION !!!!
If the money was coming from groups like hamas or Al Qaeda I would say it's real big deal. I would at least hope we could agree on that.0 -
If it's just about location, why do you or others care about a mosque/center 2 blocks from it then? It's not the site, but simply near it.prfctlefts wrote:jesus man no one is condeming anyone !!!
LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION !!!!
If the money was coming from groups like hamas or Al Qaeda I would say it's real big deal. I would at least hope we could agree on that.CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis0 -
no it is not location...look at the picture in the top of the page... "no 9/11 victory mosque" tells me they do not want a mosque anywhere. and i have seen articles and news reports where people are anti muslim, not anti location. can't you see that?prfctlefts wrote:jesus man no one is condeming anyone !!!
LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION !!!!
If the money was coming from groups like hamas or Al Qaeda I would say it's real big deal. I would at least hope we could agree on that."You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
gimmesometruth27 wrote:
no it is not location...look at the picture in the top of the page... "no 9/11 victory mosque" tells me they do not want a mosque anywhere. and i have seen articles and news reports where people are anti muslim, not anti location. can't you see that?prfctlefts wrote:jesus man no one is condeming anyone !!!
LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION !!!!
If the money was coming from groups like hamas or Al Qaeda I would say it's real big deal. I would at least hope we could agree on that.
yes it is man everything the protesters are saying is it's the location. There are somthing like 300 mosques in NY if it were true what you're saying there wouldn' be hardly any. You and others are painting us as bigots which we are not..0 -
gimmesometruth27 wrote:
no it is not location...look at the picture in the top of the page... "no 9/11 victory mosque" tells me they do not want a mosque anywhere. and i have seen articles and news reports where people are anti muslim, not anti location. can't you see that?prfctlefts wrote:jesus man no one is condeming anyone !!!
LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION !!!!
If the money was coming from groups like hamas or Al Qaeda I would say it's real big deal. I would at least hope we could agree on that.
so because of one sign, you're going to say that every single person that doesn't want that mosque built there is anti muslim?9/1/00, 9/2/00, 9/3/00, 12/31/00, 3/2/01, 4/29/01, 6/21/01, 7/25/01, 8/31/01, 9/1/01, 9/2/01, 4/18/02, 8/30/02, 8/31/02, 8/31/02, 9/1/02, 9/22/02, 3/22/03, 5/6/03, 6/29/03, 8/29/03, 8/30/03, 8/30/03, 8/31/03, 2/21/04, 4/2/04, 4/3/04, 9/3/04, 9/4/04, 9/4/04, 9/5/04, 2/19/05, 7/22/05, 9/2/05, 9/3/05, 9/3/05, 9/4/05, 1/22/06, 6/7/06, 9/1/06, 9/2/06, 9/2/06, 9/3/06, 7/6/07, 8/31/07, 9/1/07, 9/1/07, 9/2/07, 3/7/08, 8/29/08, 8/30/08, 8/30/08, 8/31/08, 7/11/09, 6/4/10, 6/11/110 -
why are you against it? what do you have against a mosque and cultural center going up 2 blocks away from ground zero? it does not affect you in any way. who again did you lose on 9/11? who are you to tell a group of faithful people where and when they can build their house of worship? i didn't know prfctlfts and the tea party were in charge of granting land deal now... what are you scared of? are you afraid that the mean scary muslims are going to suddenly take over your country because a mosque is built close to a big hole in the ground??prfctlefts wrote:gimmesometruth27 wrote:
no it is not location...look at the picture in the top of the page... "no 9/11 victory mosque" tells me they do not want a mosque anywhere. and i have seen articles and news reports where people are anti muslim, not anti location. can't you see that?prfctlefts wrote:jesus man no one is condeming anyone !!!
LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION !!!!
If the money was coming from groups like hamas or Al Qaeda I would say it's real big deal. I would at least hope we could agree on that.
yes it is man everything the protesters are saying is it's the location. There are somthing like 300 mosques in NY if it were true what you're saying there wouldn' be hardly any. You and others are painting us as bigots which we are not.."You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
re-read my post please. read triumphant angel's article please. also look on yahoo.com now, there is an article saying that this mosque is spurring anti muslim sentiment all over the country.moe.ron wrote:gimmesometruth27 wrote:
no it is not location...look at the picture in the top of the page... "no 9/11 victory mosque" tells me they do not want a mosque anywhere. and i have seen articles and news reports where people are anti muslim, not anti location. can't you see that?prfctlefts wrote:jesus man no one is condeming anyone !!!
LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION !!!!
If the money was coming from groups like hamas or Al Qaeda I would say it's real big deal. I would at least hope we could agree on that.
so because of one sign, you're going to say that every single person that doesn't want that mosque built there is anti muslim?"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
gimmesometruth27 wrote:
re-read my post please. read triumphant angel's article please. also look on yahoo.com now, there is an article saying that this mosque is spurring anti muslim sentiment all over the country.moe.ron wrote:gimmesometruth27 wrote:no it is not location...look at the picture in the top of the page... "no 9/11 victory mosque" tells me they do not want a mosque anywhere. and i have seen articles and news reports where people are anti muslim, not anti location. can't you see that?
so because of one sign, you're going to say that every single person that doesn't want that mosque built there is anti muslim?
no, i'm not going to do any of that. i'm asking you one simple question. you write that, because of one picture of one sign and other reports that you've read, your belief is that anyone that's against this mosque being built in that location is actually saying they don't want a mosque anywhere in the country and they're anti muslim. that is what i'm getting from your posts. i'm not trying to bash, i'm just asking a question. do you really feel that way because of one sign and some articles you've read?9/1/00, 9/2/00, 9/3/00, 12/31/00, 3/2/01, 4/29/01, 6/21/01, 7/25/01, 8/31/01, 9/1/01, 9/2/01, 4/18/02, 8/30/02, 8/31/02, 8/31/02, 9/1/02, 9/22/02, 3/22/03, 5/6/03, 6/29/03, 8/29/03, 8/30/03, 8/30/03, 8/31/03, 2/21/04, 4/2/04, 4/3/04, 9/3/04, 9/4/04, 9/4/04, 9/5/04, 2/19/05, 7/22/05, 9/2/05, 9/3/05, 9/3/05, 9/4/05, 1/22/06, 6/7/06, 9/1/06, 9/2/06, 9/2/06, 9/3/06, 7/6/07, 8/31/07, 9/1/07, 9/1/07, 9/2/07, 3/7/08, 8/29/08, 8/30/08, 8/30/08, 8/31/08, 7/11/09, 6/4/10, 6/11/110 -
it is not from one sign....i have said i have seen numerous articles and news stories with NUMEROUS signs...moe.ron wrote:no, i'm not going to do any of that. i'm asking you one simple question. you write that, because of one picture of one sign and other reports that you've read, your belief is that anyone that's against this mosque being built in that location is actually saying they don't want a mosque anywhere in the country and they're anti muslim. that is what i'm getting from your posts. i'm not trying to bash, i'm just asking a question. do you really feel that way because of one sign and some articles you've read?
and if you refuse to maybe spend five minutes to enlighten yourself then you and i are finished here...."You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
gimmesometruth27 wrote:
it is not from one sign....i have said i have seen numerous articles and news stories with NUMEROUS signs...moe.ron wrote:no, i'm not going to do any of that. i'm asking you one simple question. you write that, because of one picture of one sign and other reports that you've read, your belief is that anyone that's against this mosque being built in that location is actually saying they don't want a mosque anywhere in the country and they're anti muslim. that is what i'm getting from your posts. i'm not trying to bash, i'm just asking a question. do you really feel that way because of one sign and some articles you've read?
and if you refuse to maybe spend five minutes to enlighten yourself then you and i are finished here....
how am i not enlightening myself? by not going back and re-reading your posts? you don't even know my thoughts on this issue. sometimes, gimme, you need to get off your high horse.9/1/00, 9/2/00, 9/3/00, 12/31/00, 3/2/01, 4/29/01, 6/21/01, 7/25/01, 8/31/01, 9/1/01, 9/2/01, 4/18/02, 8/30/02, 8/31/02, 8/31/02, 9/1/02, 9/22/02, 3/22/03, 5/6/03, 6/29/03, 8/29/03, 8/30/03, 8/30/03, 8/31/03, 2/21/04, 4/2/04, 4/3/04, 9/3/04, 9/4/04, 9/4/04, 9/5/04, 2/19/05, 7/22/05, 9/2/05, 9/3/05, 9/3/05, 9/4/05, 1/22/06, 6/7/06, 9/1/06, 9/2/06, 9/2/06, 9/3/06, 7/6/07, 8/31/07, 9/1/07, 9/1/07, 9/2/07, 3/7/08, 8/29/08, 8/30/08, 8/30/08, 8/31/08, 7/11/09, 6/4/10, 6/11/110 -
Ground Zero mosque plans 'fuelling anti-Muslim protests across US'
Friday, 13 August 2010
Religious leaders warn of Islamophobia surge with hate speech and opposition to new Islamic centres across America
The battle over plans to build a mosque near the site of the 9/11 terrorist attacks in New York is fuelling a surge in anti-Muslim protests across the US, including opposition to new Islamic centres from California to Georgia.
Religious leaders and civil rights activists warn that a tide of Islamophobia that has swept the country since the destruction of the twin towers is being heightened by political exploitation of the New York dispute before nationwide elections and is increasingly bound up with hostility to immigrants and other forms of racism.
They say the outpouring of condemnation at the "outrage" of a mosque close to the "hallowed ground" of the World Trade Centre site also goes hand in hand with the increasing acceptability of what they describe as hate speech.
A Florida church, Dove World Outreach Centre, is planning a "burn the Qur'an" day on September 11 and has already outraged Muslims by planting a sign on its front lawn that reads: Islam is the Devil.
The church's senior pastor, Terry Jones, has said he is "exposing Islam for what it is".
"It is a violent and oppressive religion that is trying to masquerade itself as a religion of peace, seeking to deceive our society," the church said. "Islam is a lie based upon lies and deceptions and fear. In Muslim countries, if you preach the gospel or convert to Christianity – you will be killed. That is the type of religion it is."
A leading Muslim educational institution, al-Azhar's Supreme Council in Egypt, has accused the Florida church of "stirring up hate and discrimination" and called on other American churches to condemn it.
Many religious leaders have spoken out against Muslim-bashing, including rabbis in New York who have defended the plans for the mosque two blocks from the site of the 9/11 attacks, which would not be visible from Ground Zero.
But John Esposito, director of the Centre for Muslim-Christian Understanding at Georgetown University, said many Americans shared Jones's views. He said the dispute over the proposed mosque had given cover for more open hostility unleashed after the 9/11 attacks that was evident during the last presidential election when some of Barack Obama's opponents attempted to portray him as a Muslim.
"The World Trade Centre thing has shown that what has been up to now seen as a local issue has gone global and provided an umbrella so that suddenly people feel freer to go public with their objections to Muslims," he said.
"Historically we've had problems in Mississippi or Georgia or New York or wherever when someone wants to establish a mosque.
"The cover for opposition used to be that people will say: we're not really prejudiced but it'll affect the traffic in the area, not facing the fact that it is very common if you have a significant number of Jews or Protestants or Catholics to expect that they're going to want to have a synagogue or a church and chances are the town's going to go along with it."
But today, Americans increasingly no longer shy away from saying they oppose mosques on the grounds that Muslims are a threat or different.
In New York, a group called the American Freedom Defence Initiative is placing adverts on New York buses showing a plane flying into one of the World Trade Centre towers and what it calls a "Mega Mosque" and asking "Why There?".
Azeem Khan, of the Islamic Circle of North America, said the bus adverts promoted fear and hatred. "People want Islam and Muslims to be the bogeyman right now," he said.
The issue is increasingly being exploited by politicians in the run-up to November's mid-term elections. Opposition to a mosque in Murfreesboro, Tennessee, intensified after Republican candidates for Congress and state governor made opposition part of their campaigns.
Sarah Palin, the former vice presidential candidate, has been a vocal opponent of the controversial New York mosque.
Other prominent politicians have cast the net wider. Newt Gingrich, the Republican former speaker of the House of Representatives, who is thought likely to make a run for president, has warned that Muslims are attempting to impose sharia law in the US and that it poses a "mortal threat to freedom" in America.
Gingrich said that he would push for legislation to prevent states from adopting sharia law even though none are proposing it and there is no likely prospect of it happening.
Esposito said politicians' fearmongering over Muslims was similar to exploitation of fears that the country was being swamped by a tide of illegal immigrants.
"Islamophobia is not just about religion. It's about people who are of colour and a whole set of presuppositions about these people," he said.
"You can see it not only with Muslims but with Mexicans, people who look Hispanic. Now we have hard data from Gallup and Pew that demonstrate in America how integrated the vast majority of Muslims are – economically, politically and religiously. And yet a significant number of Americans can be appealed to in what is nothing less than hate speech, the same hate speech directed against immigrants."
Hostile messages
• Members of an evangelical church in Texas travelled to Connecticut to verbally attack worshippers leaving a mosque in Bridgeport, carrying signs reading: "Jesus hates Muslims"
• In Tennessee, Republican politicians have condemned plans to build a large Muslim centre in Murfreesboro. Hundreds of people have joined protests
Guardian
http://www.hizb.org.uk/hizb/news-watch/ ... ss-us.html"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
ok, i've read this. now i'll ask you again: because of this, and anything else you've read or seen online, do you think that every single person that doesn't want that mosque built that close to ground zero is anti muslim? that's my only question.gimmesometruth27 wrote:Ground Zero mosque plans 'fuelling anti-Muslim protests across US'
Friday, 13 August 2010
Religious leaders warn of Islamophobia surge with hate speech and opposition to new Islamic centres across America
The battle over plans to build a mosque near the site of the 9/11 terrorist attacks in New York is fuelling a surge in anti-Muslim protests across the US, including opposition to new Islamic centres from California to Georgia.
Religious leaders and civil rights activists warn that a tide of Islamophobia that has swept the country since the destruction of the twin towers is being heightened by political exploitation of the New York dispute before nationwide elections and is increasingly bound up with hostility to immigrants and other forms of racism.
They say the outpouring of condemnation at the "outrage" of a mosque close to the "hallowed ground" of the World Trade Centre site also goes hand in hand with the increasing acceptability of what they describe as hate speech.
A Florida church, Dove World Outreach Centre, is planning a "burn the Qur'an" day on September 11 and has already outraged Muslims by planting a sign on its front lawn that reads: Islam is the Devil.
The church's senior pastor, Terry Jones, has said he is "exposing Islam for what it is".
"It is a violent and oppressive religion that is trying to masquerade itself as a religion of peace, seeking to deceive our society," the church said. "Islam is a lie based upon lies and deceptions and fear. In Muslim countries, if you preach the gospel or convert to Christianity – you will be killed. That is the type of religion it is."
A leading Muslim educational institution, al-Azhar's Supreme Council in Egypt, has accused the Florida church of "stirring up hate and discrimination" and called on other American churches to condemn it.
Many religious leaders have spoken out against Muslim-bashing, including rabbis in New York who have defended the plans for the mosque two blocks from the site of the 9/11 attacks, which would not be visible from Ground Zero.
But John Esposito, director of the Centre for Muslim-Christian Understanding at Georgetown University, said many Americans shared Jones's views. He said the dispute over the proposed mosque had given cover for more open hostility unleashed after the 9/11 attacks that was evident during the last presidential election when some of Barack Obama's opponents attempted to portray him as a Muslim.
"The World Trade Centre thing has shown that what has been up to now seen as a local issue has gone global and provided an umbrella so that suddenly people feel freer to go public with their objections to Muslims," he said.
"Historically we've had problems in Mississippi or Georgia or New York or wherever when someone wants to establish a mosque.
"The cover for opposition used to be that people will say: we're not really prejudiced but it'll affect the traffic in the area, not facing the fact that it is very common if you have a significant number of Jews or Protestants or Catholics to expect that they're going to want to have a synagogue or a church and chances are the town's going to go along with it."
But today, Americans increasingly no longer shy away from saying they oppose mosques on the grounds that Muslims are a threat or different.
In New York, a group called the American Freedom Defence Initiative is placing adverts on New York buses showing a plane flying into one of the World Trade Centre towers and what it calls a "Mega Mosque" and asking "Why There?".
Azeem Khan, of the Islamic Circle of North America, said the bus adverts promoted fear and hatred. "People want Islam and Muslims to be the bogeyman right now," he said.
The issue is increasingly being exploited by politicians in the run-up to November's mid-term elections. Opposition to a mosque in Murfreesboro, Tennessee, intensified after Republican candidates for Congress and state governor made opposition part of their campaigns.
Sarah Palin, the former vice presidential candidate, has been a vocal opponent of the controversial New York mosque.
Other prominent politicians have cast the net wider. Newt Gingrich, the Republican former speaker of the House of Representatives, who is thought likely to make a run for president, has warned that Muslims are attempting to impose sharia law in the US and that it poses a "mortal threat to freedom" in America.
Gingrich said that he would push for legislation to prevent states from adopting sharia law even though none are proposing it and there is no likely prospect of it happening.
Esposito said politicians' fearmongering over Muslims was similar to exploitation of fears that the country was being swamped by a tide of illegal immigrants.
"Islamophobia is not just about religion. It's about people who are of colour and a whole set of presuppositions about these people," he said.
"You can see it not only with Muslims but with Mexicans, people who look Hispanic. Now we have hard data from Gallup and Pew that demonstrate in America how integrated the vast majority of Muslims are – economically, politically and religiously. And yet a significant number of Americans can be appealed to in what is nothing less than hate speech, the same hate speech directed against immigrants."
Hostile messages
• Members of an evangelical church in Texas travelled to Connecticut to verbally attack worshippers leaving a mosque in Bridgeport, carrying signs reading: "Jesus hates Muslims"
• In Tennessee, Republican politicians have condemned plans to build a large Muslim centre in Murfreesboro. Hundreds of people have joined protests
Guardian
http://www.hizb.org.uk/hizb/news-watch/ ... ss-us.html9/1/00, 9/2/00, 9/3/00, 12/31/00, 3/2/01, 4/29/01, 6/21/01, 7/25/01, 8/31/01, 9/1/01, 9/2/01, 4/18/02, 8/30/02, 8/31/02, 8/31/02, 9/1/02, 9/22/02, 3/22/03, 5/6/03, 6/29/03, 8/29/03, 8/30/03, 8/30/03, 8/31/03, 2/21/04, 4/2/04, 4/3/04, 9/3/04, 9/4/04, 9/4/04, 9/5/04, 2/19/05, 7/22/05, 9/2/05, 9/3/05, 9/3/05, 9/4/05, 1/22/06, 6/7/06, 9/1/06, 9/2/06, 9/2/06, 9/3/06, 7/6/07, 8/31/07, 9/1/07, 9/1/07, 9/2/07, 3/7/08, 8/29/08, 8/30/08, 8/30/08, 8/31/08, 7/11/09, 6/4/10, 6/11/110 -
the majority of them, yes.moe.ron wrote:ok, i've read this. now i'll ask you again: because of this, and anything else you've read or seen online, do you think that every single person that doesn't want that mosque built that close to ground zero is anti muslim? that's my only question.gimmesometruth27 wrote:Ground Zero mosque plans 'fuelling anti-Muslim protests across US'
Friday, 13 August 2010
Religious leaders warn of Islamophobia surge with hate speech and opposition to new Islamic centres across America
The battle over plans to build a mosque near the site of the 9/11 terrorist attacks in New York is fuelling a surge in anti-Muslim protests across the US, including opposition to new Islamic centres from California to Georgia.
Religious leaders and civil rights activists warn that a tide of Islamophobia that has swept the country since the destruction of the twin towers is being heightened by political exploitation of the New York dispute before nationwide elections and is increasingly bound up with hostility to immigrants and other forms of racism.
They say the outpouring of condemnation at the "outrage" of a mosque close to the "hallowed ground" of the World Trade Centre site also goes hand in hand with the increasing acceptability of what they describe as hate speech.
A Florida church, Dove World Outreach Centre, is planning a "burn the Qur'an" day on September 11 and has already outraged Muslims by planting a sign on its front lawn that reads: Islam is the Devil.
The church's senior pastor, Terry Jones, has said he is "exposing Islam for what it is".
"It is a violent and oppressive religion that is trying to masquerade itself as a religion of peace, seeking to deceive our society," the church said. "Islam is a lie based upon lies and deceptions and fear. In Muslim countries, if you preach the gospel or convert to Christianity – you will be killed. That is the type of religion it is."
A leading Muslim educational institution, al-Azhar's Supreme Council in Egypt, has accused the Florida church of "stirring up hate and discrimination" and called on other American churches to condemn it.
Many religious leaders have spoken out against Muslim-bashing, including rabbis in New York who have defended the plans for the mosque two blocks from the site of the 9/11 attacks, which would not be visible from Ground Zero.
But John Esposito, director of the Centre for Muslim-Christian Understanding at Georgetown University, said many Americans shared Jones's views. He said the dispute over the proposed mosque had given cover for more open hostility unleashed after the 9/11 attacks that was evident during the last presidential election when some of Barack Obama's opponents attempted to portray him as a Muslim.
"The World Trade Centre thing has shown that what has been up to now seen as a local issue has gone global and provided an umbrella so that suddenly people feel freer to go public with their objections to Muslims," he said.
"Historically we've had problems in Mississippi or Georgia or New York or wherever when someone wants to establish a mosque.
"The cover for opposition used to be that people will say: we're not really prejudiced but it'll affect the traffic in the area, not facing the fact that it is very common if you have a significant number of Jews or Protestants or Catholics to expect that they're going to want to have a synagogue or a church and chances are the town's going to go along with it."
But today, Americans increasingly no longer shy away from saying they oppose mosques on the grounds that Muslims are a threat or different.
In New York, a group called the American Freedom Defence Initiative is placing adverts on New York buses showing a plane flying into one of the World Trade Centre towers and what it calls a "Mega Mosque" and asking "Why There?".
Azeem Khan, of the Islamic Circle of North America, said the bus adverts promoted fear and hatred. "People want Islam and Muslims to be the bogeyman right now," he said.
The issue is increasingly being exploited by politicians in the run-up to November's mid-term elections. Opposition to a mosque in Murfreesboro, Tennessee, intensified after Republican candidates for Congress and state governor made opposition part of their campaigns.
Sarah Palin, the former vice presidential candidate, has been a vocal opponent of the controversial New York mosque.
Other prominent politicians have cast the net wider. Newt Gingrich, the Republican former speaker of the House of Representatives, who is thought likely to make a run for president, has warned that Muslims are attempting to impose sharia law in the US and that it poses a "mortal threat to freedom" in America.
Gingrich said that he would push for legislation to prevent states from adopting sharia law even though none are proposing it and there is no likely prospect of it happening.
Esposito said politicians' fearmongering over Muslims was similar to exploitation of fears that the country was being swamped by a tide of illegal immigrants.
"Islamophobia is not just about religion. It's about people who are of colour and a whole set of presuppositions about these people," he said.
"You can see it not only with Muslims but with Mexicans, people who look Hispanic. Now we have hard data from Gallup and Pew that demonstrate in America how integrated the vast majority of Muslims are – economically, politically and religiously. And yet a significant number of Americans can be appealed to in what is nothing less than hate speech, the same hate speech directed against immigrants."
Hostile messages
• Members of an evangelical church in Texas travelled to Connecticut to verbally attack worshippers leaving a mosque in Bridgeport, carrying signs reading: "Jesus hates Muslims"
• In Tennessee, Republican politicians have condemned plans to build a large Muslim centre in Murfreesboro. Hundreds of people have joined protests
Guardian
http://www.hizb.org.uk/hizb/news-watch/ ... ss-us.html
to me it seems like those people are the same way about islam as they are about nuclear energy, all in favor of it "but not in my backyard"...
they have stated no other credible reason to be against it. it does not affect them at all, the mosque can not be seen from ground zero, so what other logical conclusion is there? did you read the underlined parts in the article? i can find more but that one was from today thus the most current. what is your opinion?"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
gimmesometruth27 wrote:the majority of them, yes.
to me it seems like those people are the same way about islam as they are about nuclear energy, all in favor of it "but not in my backyard"...
they have stated no other credible reason to be against it. it does not affect them at all, the mosque can not be seen from ground zero, so what other logical conclusion is there? did you read the underlined parts in the article? i can find more but that one was from today thus the most current. what is your opinion?
see the problem i have with you saying that you think the majority of people not wanting that mosque in that area are anti muslim is that in this very same thread it's been said you shouldn't generalize against a group because of the actions of some that belong to that group (not all muslims are extremists).
yes, gimme, i read the underlined parts of your post. i read the whole thing. i don't agree with burning koran's or blindly painting the entire religion as blood thirsty savages. that's just plain and simple idiocy.
as far as building the mosque (or cultural center) where they're planning on building it: i think it might be in poor taste a little, but i don't have a problem with it being built there. personally, i think it's a stupid idea, and by stupid i mean whoever is planning this had to know prior to it becoming public that it was going to stir the pot, and i don't mean like a mild stir. i'm talking tweak from south park stirring it, while having a seizure. i hope they have tight security during the building of it, and even after it's up. i can only imagine what kind of vandalism (and god knows what else) will happen once it's built.9/1/00, 9/2/00, 9/3/00, 12/31/00, 3/2/01, 4/29/01, 6/21/01, 7/25/01, 8/31/01, 9/1/01, 9/2/01, 4/18/02, 8/30/02, 8/31/02, 8/31/02, 9/1/02, 9/22/02, 3/22/03, 5/6/03, 6/29/03, 8/29/03, 8/30/03, 8/30/03, 8/31/03, 2/21/04, 4/2/04, 4/3/04, 9/3/04, 9/4/04, 9/4/04, 9/5/04, 2/19/05, 7/22/05, 9/2/05, 9/3/05, 9/3/05, 9/4/05, 1/22/06, 6/7/06, 9/1/06, 9/2/06, 9/2/06, 9/3/06, 7/6/07, 8/31/07, 9/1/07, 9/1/07, 9/2/07, 3/7/08, 8/29/08, 8/30/08, 8/30/08, 8/31/08, 7/11/09, 6/4/10, 6/11/110 -
Christian Conservative Leader Calls for No More Mosques in U.S.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162- ... 03544.html
In the wake of the uproar over the mosque to be built near "ground zero" in New York, a prominent, controversial social conservative is calling for the prohibition of the construction of any mosques in the United States.
"Permits should not be granted to build even one more mosque in the United States of America, let alone the monstrosity planned for Ground Zero," Bryan Fischer of the American Family Association wrote this week on the AFA website. "This is for one simple reason: each Islamic mosque is dedicated to the overthrow of the American government."
Fischer is the AFA's director of Issue Analysis for Government and Public Policy. The AFA is a conservative Christian group that been in the news before for taking a number of extreme positions -- for instance, earlier this year Fischer called for Tilikum, the SeaWorld orca that thrashed its trainer to death, to be killed according to Biblical rules. In 2005, the AFA finally ended its boycott of Disney, which it kept of for nine years to protest the company's erosion of moral values.
The AFA operates nearly 200 radio stations across the country under the American Family Radio banner and sometimes features congressmen on its shows. Reps. Marsha Blackburn (R-Tenn.) and Doug Lamborn (R-Colo.), for instance, were recent guests of one show. Fischer is listed as an invited speaker at the Values Voter Summit next month, along with Rep. Michele Bachmann, Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich and Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal, among others.
A number of conservatives have decried the decision by New York City officials to allow for the construction of an Islamic community center and mosque a few blocks from the site of the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks. A conservative advocacy group founded by the Rev. Pat Robertson vowed to challenge the city's decision in state court.
Fischer's position takes the debate to an entirely new level. He writes that every mosque "is a potential jihadist recruitment and training center" and that because of Islam's "subversive ideology, Muslims cannot claim religious freedom protections under the First Amendment."
Another AFA writer, Elijah Friedeman, wrote that he agreed each mosque is a "potential jihadist recruitment and training center" -- Friedeman wrote, "Each and every mosque could potentially - existing in possibility - be a threat, but the fact is that the very large majority of mosques don't threaten America's existence or anything for that matter."
Friedeman said that the right to build mosques in the U.S. should be protected.
"If we ignore the legal foundation of our nation, we will be left in a legal quicksand with no protection from others who want to suspend our freedoms when they feel like it," he said. "I would give the Devil the benefit of the law, if for no other reason than my own safety."
Meanwhile, while the debate continues over the New York mosque, President Obama yesterday released a statement to commemorate the start of Ramadan, saying Islam has always been part of America. Ramadan is the holiday during which observant Muslims fast from dawn to dusk each day for a month to develop patience, humility and spirituality.
"These rituals remind us of the principles that we hold in common, and Islam's role in advancing justice, progress, tolerance, and the dignity of all human beings," Mr. Obama said in a statement. "Ramadan is a celebration of a faith known for great diversity and racial equality. And here in the United States, Ramadan is a reminder that Islam has always been part of America and that American Muslims have made extraordinary contributions to our country."
The president will be hosting an Iftar dinner celebrating Ramadan at the White House later this week.
The White House has refused to weigh in on the mosque debate in New York. Deputy White House Press Secretary Bill Burton said Tuesday, "The president has made clear that we are not at war with Islam, and that we can have these sorts of discussions well within the traditions of openness and religious freedom that our country is based on."
A number of potential Republican 2012 presidential nominees have weighed in on the issue, however. Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee called the New York mosque "really offensive to most New Yorkers and Americans," while Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty called it "inappropriate.""You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
What I find funny is someone telling others not to judge an entire religion by the actions of a few is doing the exact same thing here.
Hey everyone...guess what? There are some bad muslims...bad christians...bad jews...some bad people in every walk of life, every profession, every color, every sex, every age, every religion.
And as far as religion goes, in each one, there are bad people using it to try and justify terrible hatred and/or violence against others.Post edited by cincybearcat onhippiemom = goodness0 -
everything i have posted suggests that people are afraid of losing their country or somehow having it overthrown by these muslims. it is a reaction based on fear and fear alone. i am not afraid of anyone, any group or any religion. i feel that the muslims have the right to build their mosque/cultural center anywhere they want to. if they can afford the land and pay the taxes then they can buy the land and build their building. the cbs article i just posted points to the leaders of the opposition's bigotry and fear as the only reasons to oppose it. these are the same people who go on and on and on about freedom, yet they are wanting to deny these people the right to build their place of worship wherever they want to put it. to me that is the highest form of hypocracy....these people like gingrich, et al in the article are so quick to talk about freedom and liberty and constitution, yet they are the first ones to advocate suspending parts of it when it suits them. to me that is more dangerous than any mosque.moe.ron wrote:gimmesometruth27 wrote:the majority of them, yes.
to me it seems like those people are the same way about islam as they are about nuclear energy, all in favor of it "but not in my backyard"...
they have stated no other credible reason to be against it. it does not affect them at all, the mosque can not be seen from ground zero, so what other logical conclusion is there? did you read the underlined parts in the article? i can find more but that one was from today thus the most current. what is your opinion?
see the problem i have with you saying that you think the majority of people not wanting that mosque in that area are anti muslim is that in this very same thread it's been said you shouldn't generalize against a group because of the actions of some that belong to that group (not all muslims are extremists).
yes, gimme, i read the underlined parts of your post. i read the whole thing. i don't agree with burning koran's or blindly painting the entire religion as blood thirsty savages. that's just plain and simple idiocy.
as far as building the mosque (or cultural center) where they're planning on building it: i think it might be in poor taste a little, but i don't have a problem with it being built there. personally, i think it's a stupid idea, and by stupid i mean whoever is planning this had to know prior to it becoming public that it was going to stir the pot, and i don't mean like a mild stir. i'm talking tweak from south park stirring it, while having a seizure. i hope they have tight security during the building of it, and even after it's up. i can only imagine what kind of vandalism (and god knows what else) will happen once it's built."You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0
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