Mischief in Manhattan

WaveCameCrashinWaveCameCrashin Posts: 2,929
edited August 2010 in A Moving Train
We Muslims know the Ground Zero mosque is meant to be a deliberate provocation

Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Misch ... z0wJTLaG3D


By Raheel Raza and Tarek Fatah, Citizen Special



New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg and city council speaker Christine Quinn announce this week's decision to deny landmark status to the site of a planned Muslim centre near the World Trade Center site.
Photograph by: Michael Nagle, Getty Images
Last week, a journalist who writes for the North Country Times, a small newspaper in Southern California, sent us an e-mail titled "Help." He couldn't understand why an Islamic Centre in an area where Adam Gadahn, Osama bin Laden's American spokesman came from, and that was home to three of the 911 terrorists, was looking to expand.

The man has a very valid point, which leads to the ongoing debate about building a Mosque at Ground Zero in New York. When we try to understand the reasoning behind building a mosque at the epicentre of the worst-ever attack on the U.S., we wonder why its proponents don't build a monument to those who died in the attack?

New York currently boasts at least 30 mosques so it's not as if there is pressing need to find space for worshippers. The fact we Muslims know the idea behind the Ground Zero mosque is meant to be a deliberate provocation to thumb our noses at the infidel. The proposal has been made in bad faith and in Islamic parlance, such an act is referred to as "Fitna," meaning "mischief-making" that is clearly forbidden in the Koran.

The Koran commands Muslims to, "Be considerate when you debate with the People of the Book" -- i.e., Jews and Christians. Building an exclusive place of worship for Muslims at the place where Muslims killed thousands of New Yorkers is not being considerate or sensitive, it is undoubtedly an act of "fitna"

So what gives Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf of the "Cordoba Initiative" and his cohorts the misplaced idea that they will increase tolerance for Muslims by brazenly displaying their own intolerance in this case?

Do they not understand that building a mosque at Ground Zero is equivalent to permitting a Serbian Orthodox church near the killing fields of Srebrenica where 8,000 Muslim men and boys were slaughtered?

There are many questions that we would like to ask. Questions about where the funding is coming from? If this mosque is being funded by Saudi sources, then it is an even bigger slap in the face of Americans, as nine of the jihadis in the Twin Tower calamity were Saudis.

If Rauf is serious about building bridges, then he could have dedicated space in this so-called community centre to a church and synagogue, but he did not. We passed on this message to him through a mutual Saudi friend, but received no answer. He could have proposed a memorial to the 9/11 dead with a denouncement of the doctrine of armed jihad, but he chose not to.

It's a repugnant thought that $100 million would be brought into the United States rather than be directed at dying and needy Muslims in Darfur or Pakistan.

Let's not forget that a mosque is an exclusive place of worship for Muslims and not an inviting community centre. Most Americans are wary of mosques due to the hard core rhetoric that is used in pulpits. And rightly so. As Muslims we are dismayed that our co-religionists have such little consideration for their fellow citizens and wish to rub salt in their wounds and pretend they are applying a balm to sooth the pain.

The Koran implores Muslims to speak the truth, even if it hurts the one who utters the truth. Today we speak the truth, knowing very well Muslims have forgotten this crucial injunction from Allah.

If this mosque does get built, it will forever be a lightning rod for those who have little room for Muslims or Islam in the U.S. We simply cannot understand why on Earth the traditional leadership of America's Muslims would not realize their folly and back out in an act of goodwill.

As for those teary-eyed, bleeding-heart liberals such as New York mayor Michael Bloomberg and much of the media, who are blind to the Islamist agenda in North America, we understand their goodwill.

Unfortunately for us, their stand is based on ignorance and guilt, and they will never in their lives have to face the tyranny of Islamism that targets, kills and maims Muslims worldwide, and is using liberalism itself to destroy liberal secular democratic societies from within.

Raheel Raza is author of Their Jihad ... Not my Jihad, and Tarek Fatah is author of The Jew is Not My Enemy (McClelland & Stewart), to be launched in October. Both sit on the board of the Muslim Canadian Congress.

:clap::clap::clap:

Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Misch ... z0wJRPcxPG



They should put a HOOTERS on one side and BAR on the other of this mosque. Furthermore Im willing to bet some of the union workers will refuse to help build it
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    sorta like building permanent military bases in iraq and afghanistan ... ;)
  • polaris_x wrote:
    sorta like building permanent military bases in iraq and afghanistan ... ;)


    :roll: please man..Im not even going to waste my time with you.
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    prfctlefts wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    sorta like building permanent military bases in iraq and afghanistan ... ;)


    :roll: please man..Im not even going to waste my time with you.

    hahaha ... :lol:
  • cajunkiwicajunkiwi Posts: 984
    Oh, so NOW the Christians find it morally offensive that people want to come into their country and practice their own religion.

    Christians: enjoying the view from the moral high ground since...

    I think I might start a campaign to get all Catholic churches shut down - I hear they're breeding grounds for sodomy and child molestation.

    (note: I actually have no beef whatsoever with people of any religion, I just find hypocrisy to be distasteful).
    And I listen for the voice inside my head... nothing. I'll do this one myself.
  • FiveB247xFiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    This mosque issue has really spiraled out of control. What seems to have started as nothing but a minor detail has been elevated to something more meaningful by many but not in a good way. The people who are putting the mosque there seemed to have go over the top in doing so, and taken offense to the hypocritical nature of those who don't want it there. Religious tolerance should be a good thing, but people have vilified this mosque because of what some fundamentalist nuts did in the name of religion.. clearly not the same thing. On the other hand, the people who don't want the mosque there come off as intolerant and ignorant people by making assumptions the two are one in the same. Like most things of this sort, everyone loses in the end... and the hate just keeps on piling up. And in my opinion, having a mosque there now would be such a good sign to muslims all over the world that we are tolerant and do respect all peoples and religions and don't fill all those characterizations the terrorists say of us.. but unfortunately, we just keep fulfilling their generalizations.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • cajunkiwi wrote:
    Oh, so NOW the Christians find it morally offensive that people want to come into their country and practice their own religion.

    Christians: enjoying the view from the moral high ground since...

    I think I might start a campaign to get all Catholic churches shut down - I hear they're breeding grounds for sodomy and child molestation.

    (note: I actually have no beef whatsoever with people of any religion, I just find hypocrisy to be distasteful).

    Hypocracy ?? WTF are you talking about. Why don't you go and ask any christian church how many hoops they have to jump through if they want to build a church somewhere. Did you even read the article ? does the fact that both of the authors are MUSLIMS even open your eyes.
    it doesn't have a damn thing to do with freedom of religion. People can worship their damn toes if they want. You can even worship SATAN if you want. NOBODY GIVES A DAMN !!! It's the location. I guess you just cant seem to wrap that around your brain. If they would have planed to bulid it 2 miles from their no one would care.
  • FiveB247x wrote:
    This mosque issue has really spiraled out of control. What seems to have started as nothing but a minor detail has been elevated to something more meaningful by many but not in a good way. The people who are putting the mosque there seemed to have go over the top in doing so, and taken offense to the hypocritical nature of those who don't want it there. Religious tolerance should be a good thing, but people have vilified this mosque because of what some fundamentalist nuts did in the name of religion.. clearly not the same thing. On the other hand, the people who don't want the mosque there come off as intolerant and ignorant people by making assumptions the two are one in the same. Like most things of this sort, everyone loses in the end... and the hate just keeps on piling up. And in my opinion, having a mosque there now would be such a good sign to muslims all over the world that we are tolerant and do respect all peoples and religions and don't fill all those characterizations the terrorists say of us.. but unfortunately, we just keep fulfilling their generalizations.


    YOURE FING NUTS YOU KNOW THAT??? Did you know anybody that died on 911 ?/ Well I did and that persons family are furious about this and so am I. You and others accuse us of being the ones who are intolerant is an absolute joke.
  • Electric_DeltaElectric_Delta Posts: 977
    edited August 2010
    FiveB247x wrote:
    This mosque issue has really spiraled out of control. What seems to have started as nothing but a minor detail has been elevated to something more meaningful by many but not in a good way. The people who are putting the mosque there seemed to have go over the top in doing so, and taken offense to the hypocritical nature of those who don't want it there. Religious tolerance should be a good thing, but people have vilified this mosque because of what some fundamentalist nuts did in the name of religion.. clearly not the same thing. On the other hand, the people who don't want the mosque there come off as intolerant and ignorant people by making assumptions the two are one in the same. Like most things of this sort, everyone loses in the end... and the hate just keeps on piling up. And in my opinion, having a mosque there now would be such a good sign to muslims all over the world that we are tolerant and do respect all peoples and religions and don't fill all those characterizations the terrorists say of us.. but unfortunately, we just keep fulfilling their generalizations.

    I can't think of a bigger insult than honoring the ideology which brutally killed innocent people - innocent people who died in absolute fear...not to mention the heroes who gave their lives to save others.

    I'm tired of our flag being spat on.

    My opinion - and I do realize there is a difference between extremism and non-extremism.
    Post edited by Electric_Delta on
    Bristow, VA (5/13/10)
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    prfctlefts wrote:
    FiveB247x wrote:
    This mosque issue has really spiraled out of control. What seems to have started as nothing but a minor detail has been elevated to something more meaningful by many but not in a good way. The people who are putting the mosque there seemed to have go over the top in doing so, and taken offense to the hypocritical nature of those who don't want it there. Religious tolerance should be a good thing, but people have vilified this mosque because of what some fundamentalist nuts did in the name of religion.. clearly not the same thing. On the other hand, the people who don't want the mosque there come off as intolerant and ignorant people by making assumptions the two are one in the same. Like most things of this sort, everyone loses in the end... and the hate just keeps on piling up. And in my opinion, having a mosque there now would be such a good sign to muslims all over the world that we are tolerant and do respect all peoples and religions and don't fill all those characterizations the terrorists say of us.. but unfortunately, we just keep fulfilling their generalizations.


    YOURE FING NUTS YOU KNOW THAT??? Did you know anybody that died on 911 ?/ Well I did and that persons family are furious about this and so am I. You and others accuse us of being the ones who are intolerant is an absolute joke.
    i know 3 people that died on 9/11, one of which was my roommate for 2 years in grad school. a full blooded italian who was devoutly catholic, and i met his father and a family friend of theirs when they came here for our graduation. all 3 of which were firefighters killed on 9/11. his mom and their family support the building of the mosque. what is your point? the point i am making is wounds heal if only you would let them. people like you refuse to let them, while people like me and my old roommate's family allow them to and welcome them to heal. i see no issue with this mosque or its location.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • maj4emaj4e Posts: 605
    The only issue is the location. And 9/11 has been prostituted for so many other things who cares at this point? Is this worse than the Iraqi invasion?
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    I can't think of a bigger insult than honoring the ideology which brutally killed innocent people - innocent people who died in absolute fear...not to mention the heroes who gave their lives to save others.

    I'm tired of our flag being spat on.

    My opinion.

    now ... million plus who have died in iraq and afghanistan and ask yourself why would anyone want to spit on the american flag ...
  • FiveB247xFiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    Not saying I don't know someone who died, but what does that really mean either way? Does that somehow equate to knowing what's right, wrong, good or bad? It's really irrelevant to the discussion and only used to back your opinion cause you agree with it. Anyways, this is a clear example of an entire religion (millions throughout the world) being scapegoating for the actions of a few people... how is that intolerance? And can you please detail exactly why they are so furious about? A few fundamentalist nuts did this, should we act as if everyone who's that religion is like this?? Seems like that's the connection you're making.

    And how is it an insult? If anything, it's a clear sign that hatred won't win... peace and tolerance wins.
    prfctlefts wrote:
    YOURE FING NUTS YOU KNOW THAT??? Did you know anybody that died on 911 ?/ Well I did and that persons family are furious about this and so am I. You and others accuse us of being the ones who are intolerant is an absolute joke.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • polaris_x wrote:
    I can't think of a bigger insult than honoring the ideology which brutally killed innocent people - innocent people who died in absolute fear...not to mention the heroes who gave their lives to save others.

    I'm tired of our flag being spat on.

    My opinion.

    now ... million plus who have died in iraq and afghanistan and ask yourself why would anyone want to spit on the american flag ...

    History flows both ways. Every solitary thing which happens in the world today is not solely the fault of the United States.
    Bristow, VA (5/13/10)
  • prfctlefts wrote:
    FiveB247x wrote:
    This mosque issue has really spiraled out of control. What seems to have started as nothing but a minor detail has been elevated to something more meaningful by many but not in a good way. The people who are putting the mosque there seemed to have go over the top in doing so, and taken offense to the hypocritical nature of those who don't want it there. Religious tolerance should be a good thing, but people have vilified this mosque because of what some fundamentalist nuts did in the name of religion.. clearly not the same thing. On the other hand, the people who don't want the mosque there come off as intolerant and ignorant people by making assumptions the two are one in the same. Like most things of this sort, everyone loses in the end... and the hate just keeps on piling up. And in my opinion, having a mosque there now would be such a good sign to muslims all over the world that we are tolerant and do respect all peoples and religions and don't fill all those characterizations the terrorists say of us.. but unfortunately, we just keep fulfilling their generalizations.


    YOURE FING NUTS YOU KNOW THAT??? Did you know anybody that died on 911 ?/ Well I did and that persons family are furious about this and so am I. You and others accuse us of being the ones who are intolerant is an absolute joke.
    i know 3 people that died on 9/11, one of which was my roommate for 2 years in grad school. a full blooded italian who was devoutly catholic, and i met his father and a family friend of theirs when they came here for our graduation. all 3 of which were firefighters killed on 9/11. his mom and their family support the building of the mosque. what is your point? the point i am making is wounds heal if only you would let them. people like you refuse to let them, while people like me and my old roommate's family allow them to and welcome them to heal. i see no issue with this mosque or its location.


    Well that's their opinion and certainly they are entitled to it.Also Im sorry for your loss. My point is i see this as an insult to all the people that were murdered on 911 and also the emam himself is radical muslim. The reason I say that is because some of the comments he has made in the past. and furthermore their are muslims that don't agree with the mosque's location. If they are so tolreant than why not put a synagog or a christian church right next to it ?
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    History flows both ways. Every solitary thing which happens in the world today is not solely the fault of the United States.

    no one is saying it is ... but there seems to be a double standard here ... people are in uproar over a mosque near ground zero ... yet, care little about the innocent men and women and children who have died for an even senseless motive ... greed ...
  • __ Posts: 6,651
    That's funny, 'cuz I just read that all the Muslims know the mosque was meant to be a deli. :?
  • polaris_x wrote:
    History flows both ways. Every solitary thing which happens in the world today is not solely the fault of the United States.

    no one is saying it is ... but there seems to be a double standard here ... people are in uproar over a mosque near ground zero ... yet, care little about the innocent men and women and children who have died for an even senseless motive ... greed ...

    Greed ??
    what are you even talking about. How the hell is this a double standard ? If you want to talk about a double standard. What about all the christians that are killed just for being christian in these middle eastern countries / what about the Humanatarian workers that were just executed by the taliban just for having a bible in thier posession ?
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    prfctlefts wrote:
    Greed ??
    what are you even talking about. How the hell is this a double standard ? If you want to talk about a double standard. What about all the christians that are killed just for being christian in these middle eastern countries / what about the Humanatarian workers that were just executed by the taliban just for having a bible in thier posession ?

    i thought you weren't gonna waste anymore time with me?

    i am sorry to inform you that the wars in iraq and afghanistan were strictly initiated for profiteering ... so, yes - greed ...

    how is it a double standard if one opposes the loss of innocent life EVERYWHERE? ... what are your thoughts on innocent arabs and muslims dying in the middle east? ...
  • FiveB247xFiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    Exactly that's the point - simply because the other side does god awful things, doesn't mean we should follow in line in order to justify intolerance or discrimination on our end..does it?
    prfctlefts wrote:
    Greed ??
    what are you even talking about. How the hell is this a double standard ? If you want to talk about a double standard. What about all the christians that are killed just for being christian in these middle eastern countries / what about the Humanatarian workers that were just executed by the taliban just for having a bible in thier posession ?
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,497
    I'm torn on this one.

    I can see how it could be a sign of good will to have a mosque built there...and I can see how it could be a slap in the face to some.

    It certainly could bring about discussion...and some very negative discussion as we can see here...but I guess you only really progress by throwing the stinky fish on the table and talking about it. This would certainly put a very stinky fish right in the center of a big dinner table.

    Personally if I had total control, I would not build the mosque there. I would try to build something that incorporated all religions...or no religion.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • FiveB247x - I like how you quote Louis Brandeis in your signature. He was a great mind.

    Sorry for the off-topic statement...just wanted to give you props. ;)
    Bristow, VA (5/13/10)
  • I can't think of a current political "issue" that I could care less about than this one...

    The right is so against government telling people what to do, and interfering with people's lives, but for stuff like this they want the government to step in and decide what can be built where.

    My question to those against it, is what is the geographical line you'd be ok with? Two blocks is bad... what about four... what about 8... If it was 10 blocks, there would still be some idiots crying that "Them Muslims are building a mosque 10 blocks from ground zero!"
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    who wants to wager that some tim mcveigh type attacks this mosque?

    i hope it doesn't happen, but there are some hateful people in this country that like to make statements with violence...
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,497
    who wants to wager that some tim mcveigh type attacks this mosque?

    i hope it doesn't happen, but there are some hateful people in this country that like to make statements with violence...

    Yep. So, do you not allow it to be built to protect from this risk?

    Personally, I think that is a scary slope. I guess the more I think about it, the more I think the permit should be handled like any other building permit.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • FiveB247xFiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • I'm torn on this one.

    I can see how it could be a sign of good will to have a mosque built there...and I can see how it could be a slap in the face to some.

    It certainly could bring about discussion...and some very negative discussion as we can see here...but I guess you only really progress by throwing the stinky fish on the table and talking about it. This would certainly put a very stinky fish right in the center of a big dinner table.

    Personally if I had total control, I would not build the mosque there. I would try to build something that incorporated all religions...or no religion.

    Why not leave it vacant and treat it like the battlefields of Gettysburg? I'm insulted by the notion that anything will be built there...a mosque, a Wal-Mart, etc. In my opinion, it should be dedicated as a monument.

    Attacks of this magnitude don't occur on our soil everyday.
    Bristow, VA (5/13/10)
  • Once again, religion poisons everything.
    "Bombs dropping down. Please forgive our hometown"
  • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353

    The right is so against government telling people what to do, and interfering with people's lives, but for stuff like this they want the government to step in and decide what can be built where.


    exactly. I hate republicans who pose as libertarians when it is convenient for them. They don't understand that you cannot have it both ways. Either you want the government to intervene or you don't...you cannot have it do so only when it is convenient. Republicans seemingly have lost their way,
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Why not leave it vacant and treat it like the battlefields of Gettysburg? I'm insulted by the notion that anything will be built there...a mosque, a Wal-Mart, etc. In my opinion, it should be dedicated as a monument.

    Attacks of this magnitude don't occur on our soil everyday.

    it's not actually built on ground zero ... it's like a couple of blocks away ...
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