The difference between the death penalty and abortion

12357…14

Comments

  • Blockhead
    Blockhead Posts: 1,538
    Why is it all the people in the "Do humans value life" thread that were raggin on humans, yet see abortion as something acceptable for a civilived society?
  • Blockhead
    Blockhead Posts: 1,538
    scb wrote:
    HeidiJam wrote:
    because it hasn't devloped yet...

    Is that an answer to my question or were you talking to someone else?
    Yes, yours. Sorry i forgot to quote.
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    HeidiJam wrote:
    Why is it all the people in the "Do humans value life" thread that were raggin on humans, yet see abortion as something acceptable for a civilived society?

    where is this civilised society you live in??
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    HeidiJam wrote:
    Why is it all the people in the "Do humans value life" thread that were raggin on humans, yet see abortion as something acceptable for a civilived society?

    http://forums.pearljam.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=135746#p3062131
  • Dirtie_Frank
    Dirtie_Frank Posts: 1,348
    Whoever is pro choice, how long into the pregnancy do you believe you can have the abortion? 1 month? 2nd trimester? A day be for the due date?

    Also do you think abortion is an acceptable form of contraception?
    96 Randall's Island II
    98 CAA
    00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
    05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
    06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
    08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
    09 Phillie III
    10 MSG II
    13 Wrigley Field
    16 Phillie II
  • Blockhead
    Blockhead Posts: 1,538
    catefrances wrote:
    HeidiJam wrote:
    Why is it all the people in the "Do humans value life" thread that were raggin on humans, yet see abortion as something acceptable for a civilived society?

    where is this civilised society you live in??
    civ·i·lized   /ˈsɪvəˌlaɪzd/ Show Spelled[siv-uh-lahyzd] Show IPA
    –adjective
    1. having an advanced or humane culture, society, etc.
    2. polite; well-bred; refined.
    3. of or pertaining to civilized people: The civilized world must fight ignorance.
    4. easy to manage or control; well organized or ordered: The car is quiet and civilized, even in sharp turns.
    There is the definition, are you saying we don't live in a civilized society?
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    scb wrote:
    HeidiJam wrote:
    Why do we declare someone is dead when their heart stops yet dont declare it life when the ultrasound picks up the heart beats of the fetus?

    Well, for one thing we only declare them dead after their heart, lungs, etc. all stop. Generally if the heart stops the rest of the organs follow. The "heartbeat" of an embryo, however, is not the same as what we think of when we think of the heartbeat of a person. There's not really even a full-fledged organ called the heart at that point. Also, even if there were a heart and heartbeat like we think of them, just as a person is not dead until his heart AND lungs have stopped, why would a fetus be alive until his heart AND lungs have started?
    HeidiJam wrote:
    because it hasn't devloped yet...

    :? Why is the heart more important than the lungs in your analogy? And so you're saying that if someone doesn't even have lungs (or a brain) then they're alive, even though if the lungs and brain stop the person is dead? I think this contradicts your original point. Regardless, if you saw a guy laying on the street with no lungs or brain would you really question whether or not he's alive??
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    Dirtie_Frank wrote:
    Whoever is pro choice, how long into the pregnancy do you believe you can have the abortion? 1 month? 2nd trimester? A day be for the due date?

    Also do you think abortion is an acceptable form of contraception?

    Like, how long into the pregnancy are you allowed to have an abortion?

    Also, abortion is not a form of contraception.
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    HeidiJam wrote:
    catefrances wrote:
    HeidiJam wrote:
    Why is it all the people in the "Do humans value life" thread that were raggin on humans, yet see abortion as something acceptable for a civilived society?

    where is this civilised society you live in??
    civ·i·lized   /ˈsɪvəˌlaɪzd/ Show Spelled[siv-uh-lahyzd] Show IPA
    –adjective
    1. having an advanced or humane culture, society, etc.
    2. polite; well-bred; refined.
    3. of or pertaining to civilized people: The civilized world must fight ignorance.
    4. easy to manage or control; well organized or ordered: The car is quiet and civilized, even in sharp turns.
    There is the definition, are you saying we don't live in a civilized society?

    im saying it could be more civilised.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Blockhead
    Blockhead Posts: 1,538
    scb wrote:
    HeidiJam wrote:
    because it hasn't devloped yet...

    :? Why is the heart more important than the lungs in your analogy? And so you're saying that if someone doesn't even have lungs (or a brain) then they're alive, even though if the lungs and brain stop the person is dead? I think this contradicts your original point. Regardless, if you saw a guy laying on the street with no lungs or brain would you really question whether or not he's alive??
    Well, fetus don't use lungs like we do since they receive everything through the ambilical chord (sp).
  • Dirtie_Frank
    Dirtie_Frank Posts: 1,348
    scb wrote:
    Like, how long into the pregnancy are you allowed to have an abortion?

    yes
    scb wrote:
    Also, abortion is not a form of contraception.

    Ok
    96 Randall's Island II
    98 CAA
    00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
    05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
    06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
    08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
    09 Phillie III
    10 MSG II
    13 Wrigley Field
    16 Phillie II
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    HeidiJam wrote:
    scb wrote:
    HeidiJam wrote:
    because it hasn't devloped yet...

    :? Why is the heart more important than the lungs in your analogy? And so you're saying that if someone doesn't even have lungs (or a brain) then they're alive, even though if the lungs and brain stop the person is dead? I think this contradicts your original point. Regardless, if you saw a guy laying on the street with no lungs or brain would you really question whether or not he's alive??
    Well, fetus don't use lungs like we do since they receive everything through the ambilical chord (sp).

    True - which is why they are not an independent life.

    What about brains? Do people have to have brains in order to be alive? (Honestly, you really can't say independent life is characterized by functioning hearts [which, as I said, fetuses don't really even have anyway] but not by the presence of brains.
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    edited June 2010
    Dirtie_Frank wrote:
    scb wrote:
    Like, how long into the pregnancy are you allowed to have an abortion?

    yes

    It varies based on your circumstances and what state you're in.

    Edit to add: Roe v. Wade protects womens' right to abortion at least through the 2nd trimester.
    Post edited by _ on
  • Dirtie_Frank
    Dirtie_Frank Posts: 1,348
    scb wrote:
    Dirtie_Frank wrote:
    scb wrote:
    Like, how long into the pregnancy are you allowed to have an abortion?

    yes

    It varies based on your circumstances and what state you're in.

    I meant what do you guys thinks is acceptable? Sorry for the confusion.
    96 Randall's Island II
    98 CAA
    00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
    05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
    06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
    08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
    09 Phillie III
    10 MSG II
    13 Wrigley Field
    16 Phillie II
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,880
    scb wrote:
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Well, if you think it's a life, then I don't know how you could support it. And if you don't think it's a life, I don't see how you could defend invading someone's personal medical decisions. So I think you'd have to be on 1 side or the other.

    I think it's a life and I don't think the state should invade someone's personal medical decisions. So there you have it. Turns out you don't have to be on one "side" or the other. (I think it's this binary thinking that causes many of the problems we have in the world.)


    I think that's bs. No way you can think its a life and be ok with someone else deciding to kill it.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    Dirtie_Frank wrote:
    I meant what do you guys thinks is acceptable? Sorry for the confusion.

    Acceptable for whom and under what circumstances? Regardless, I don't believe I have the right to decide for someone else.
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,880
    scb wrote:
    Cincy - It just baffles me that you don't see the difference between being pro-choice about something but not necessarily pro-something. Aren't there issues where you respect the choices of others, though you might make a different choice? Isn't this one of the fundamental concepts of the founding of our nation?

    For instance, I am pro-choice with regard to gun ownership, though I believe no one should own a gun. I am pro-choice with regard to circumcision, though I would not support getting my own child circumcised and I think it's torture. I am pro-choice with regard to homosexuality, though I am not gay. I am pro-choice with regard to some religions, though I believe their teachings are wrong. (Eh, "wrong" is a strong word, but you get my point.) Et cetera, et cetera.


    I get it, just not in this case. Doesn't fit.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    cincybearcat wrote:
    scb wrote:
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Well, if you think it's a life, then I don't know how you could support it. And if you don't think it's a life, I don't see how you could defend invading someone's personal medical decisions. So I think you'd have to be on 1 side or the other.

    I think it's a life and I don't think the state should invade someone's personal medical decisions. So there you have it. Turns out you don't have to be on one "side" or the other. (I think it's this binary thinking that causes many of the problems we have in the world.)


    I think that's bs. No way you can think its a life and be ok with someone else deciding to kill it.

    I think it's alive; I don't think it's a person.
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    cincybearcat wrote:
    scb wrote:
    Cincy - It just baffles me that you don't see the difference between being pro-choice about something but not necessarily pro-something. Aren't there issues where you respect the choices of others, though you might make a different choice? Isn't this one of the fundamental concepts of the founding of our nation?

    For instance, I am pro-choice with regard to gun ownership, though I believe no one should own a gun. I am pro-choice with regard to circumcision, though I would not support getting my own child circumcised and I think it's torture. I am pro-choice with regard to homosexuality, though I am not gay. I am pro-choice with regard to some religions, though I believe their teachings are wrong. (Eh, "wrong" is a strong word, but you get my point.) Et cetera, et cetera.


    I get it, just not in this case. Doesn't fit.

    Why not?
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,880
    scb wrote:
    cincybearcat wrote:
    scb wrote:
    Cincy - It just baffles me that you don't see the difference between being pro-choice about something but not necessarily pro-something. Aren't there issues where you respect the choices of others, though you might make a different choice? Isn't this one of the fundamental concepts of the founding of our nation?

    For instance, I am pro-choice with regard to gun ownership, though I believe no one should own a gun. I am pro-choice with regard to circumcision, though I would not support getting my own child circumcised and I think it's torture. I am pro-choice with regard to homosexuality, though I am not gay. I am pro-choice with regard to some religions, though I believe their teachings are wrong. (Eh, "wrong" is a strong word, but you get my point.) Et cetera, et cetera.


    I get it, just not in this case. Doesn't fit.

    Why not?

    I gotta go, I'll get back with ya.
    hippiemom = goodness

Categories