The difference between the death penalty and abortion

catefrances

HeidiJam wrote:

catefrances wrote:

thanks... i love my attitude.

and i would think choosing not to bring an unwanted child into a fucked up situation would be considered taking responsible. but oops... i forgot... bringing a pregnancy to term against my will and then handing off my unwanted child to unknown people is the only acceptable response to the situation.

Oh so you can do whatever you want, and justify having an abortion by saying well i don't want a child so I am just going to kill it. Your a joke of a human, and clearly don't value life. Start taking responsibility for your actions, you can't live your life doing whatever you want and not accept the consequences. Sometime you need to make sacrifices, you would understand if you had a child.

clearly you have no idea who youre talking to and yet you sit there hiding behind the anonymity of the internet judging people and making outrageous suppositions.

arq

Cosmo wrote:

I am Pro Choice. Not Pro Abortion...

+1

_

HeidiJam wrote:

catefrances wrote:

HeidiJam wrote:

Thats a great attitude... Take no responsibilities for your actions.
And you wonder why the humna race is so mess up... You will kill your own baby so you don't have to change your lifestyle but you'll cry over a dead tree???

thanks... i love my attitude.

and i would think choosing not to bring an unwanted child into a fucked up situation would be considered taking responsible. but oops... i forgot... bringing a pregnancy to term against my will and then handing off my unwanted child to unknown people is the only acceptable response to the situation.

Oh so you can do whatever you want, and justify having an abortion by saying well i don't want a child so I am just going to kill it. Your a joke of a human, and clearly don't value life. Start taking responsibility for your actions, you can't live your life doing whatever you want and not accept the consequences. Sometime you need to make sacrifices, you would understand if you had a child.

A child is not a consequence.

Blockhead

catefrances wrote:

clearly you have no idea who youre talking to and yet you sit there hiding behind the anonymity of the internet judging people and making outrageous suppositions.

I am glad abortions are funny to you... SO let me get this straight you name a number of reasons why humans don't value life, complain about how destructive humanity is, yet your cool with abortions... Alot of people have opinions on this, I wonder how many have actually had an abortion? Opinions are always great when you don't have to face reality.

Blockhead

scb wrote:

A child is not a consequence.

I didn't mean it like that, I was speaking in more of the context of personal responsibility.

_

HeidiJam wrote:

Alot of people have opinions on this, I wonder how many have actually had an abortion? Opinions are always great when you don't have to face reality.

Excellent point, MR. Jam!

_

HeidiJam wrote:

scb wrote:

A child is not a consequence.

I didn't mean it like that, I was speaking in more of the context of personal responsibility.

So was I.

catefrances

HeidiJam wrote:

catefrances wrote:

clearly you have no idea who youre talking to and yet you sit there hiding behind the anonymity of the internet judging people and making outrageous suppositions.

I am glad abortions are funny to you... SO let me get this straight you name a number of reasons why humans don't value life, complain about how destructive humanity is, yet your cool with abortions... Alot of people have opinions on this, I wonder how many have actually had an abortion? Opinions are always great when you don't have to face reality.

im laughing at you.

CJMST3K

scb wrote:

CJMST3K wrote:

So your belief is that a fetus/baby does not have enough "presence of mind" (to simplify your list of qualifications) until the moment it sees light and takes a breath... is that correct? So, like 1 second into being outside of the host, their thought process at that moment changes them into a "person", which they were not a moment before. Is this correct?

Something like that. You can't have consciousness of the world until you're actually in the world. You can't have consciousness of yourself as an individual until you have consciousness of others. You can't learn to reason while your very limited "actions" don't yet create consistent reactions. You can't be an individual while you are still a growth within someone else.

Do you have a better theory?

I do have a better theory. That fetuses are indeed people, and their "presence of mind" develops as their body develops. I remember a professor in college put it best that the brain is like a lightbulb on a dimmer, which starts dark and becomes bright while developing.

Your belief (with all due respect) that their "presence of mind", which turns them from a non-person to a person has to do with the moment it took a breath and the moment it sees light seems completely arbitrary. It has nothing to do with brain development, but more about reaching a finish line. You don't see this as an arbitrary qualifier?

Also you mention that "You can't have consciousness of the world until you're actually in the world". Silly me, I thought women lived in the world. (pardon the levity )

cincybearcat

arq wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

I am Pro Choice. Not Pro Abortion...

+1

Personally I think this is a copout answer. And it is becoming a very common answer.

Now that I think about it, probably not a copout answer but an answer from someone that just really hadn't made up your mind yet. That's ok, but this is 1 issue where I feel (in my own opinion only) you have to fall on 1 of 2 sides. Abortion is either murder or it isn't.

BinauralJam

cincybearcat wrote:

arq wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

I am Pro Choice. Not Pro Abortion...

+1

Personally I think this is a copout answer. And it is becoming a very common answer.

Now that I think about it, probably not a copout answer but an answer from someone that just really hadn't made up your mind yet. That's ok, but this is 1 issue where I feel (in my own opinion only) you have to fall on 1 of 2 sides. Abortion is either murder or it isn't.

What if your Pro Choice Anti Abortion, your against Abortion but against Anti Choice More?
is this a cop out or a crediable stance?

catefrances

cincybearcat wrote:

arq wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

I am Pro Choice. Not Pro Abortion...

+1

Personally I think this is a copout answer. And it is becoming a very common answer.

Now that I think about it, probably not a copout answer but an answer from someone that just really hadn't made up your mind yet. That's ok, but this is 1 issue where I feel (in my own opinion only) you have to fall on 1 of 2 sides. Abortion is either murder or it isn't.

being prochoice means you allow a woman to make up her own mind about what is best for her situation. it doesnt mean telling her she should abort just cause she can. and it also doesnt mean forcing her to carry a pregnancy to term against her will.

cincybearcat

KO282453 wrote:

What if your Pro Choice Anti Abortion, your against Abortion but against Anti Choice More?
is this a cop out or a crediable stance?

And this is you off of weed because of your job? I'd hate to read you on it.


So, you dislike the anti-abortion crowd (if you want to keep using negative terms for the other side of the argument, go ahead, but there are worse terms for the other side too) enough to be ok with abortion?

Well, if you think it's a life, then I don't know how you could support it. And if you don't think it's a life, I don't see how you could defend invading someone's personal medical decisions. So I think you'd have to be on 1 side or the other.

cincybearcat

catefrances wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

Personally I think this is a copout answer. And it is becoming a very common answer.

Now that I think about it, probably not a copout answer but an answer from someone that just really hadn't made up your mind yet. That's ok, but this is 1 issue where I feel (in my own opinion only) you have to fall on 1 of 2 sides. Abortion is either murder or it isn't.

being prochoice means you allow a woman to make up her own mind about what is best for her situation. it doesnt mean telling her she should abort just cause she can. and it also doesnt mean forcing her to carry a pregnancy to term against her will.

Exactly, it isn't making a decision on the subject.

BinauralJam

cincybearcat wrote:

KO282453 wrote:

What if your Pro Choice Anti Abortion, your against Abortion but against Anti Choice More?
is this a cop out or a crediable stance?

And this is you off of weed because of your job? I'd hate to read you on it.


So, you dislike the anti-abortion crowd (if you want to keep using negative terms for the other side of the argument, go ahead, but there are worse terms for the other side too) enough to be ok with abortion?

Well, if you think it's a life, then I don't know how you could support it. And if you don't think it's a life, I don't see how you could defend invading someone's personal medical decisions. So I think you'd have to be on 1 side or the other.

My veiws dont change with or with out weed well.... i guess... if i had to chose, i'm pro choice. i'm always for the individual's choice.

cincybearcat

KO282453 wrote:

My veiws dont change with or with out weed well.... i guess... if i had to chose, i'm pro choice. i'm always for the individual's choice.

And I've come to be able to respect that. I disagree 100%, but respect the opinion. Though I do wish we had a society with zero abortions...and yes, I'm all for more sex education.

catefrances

cincybearcat wrote:

catefrances wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

Personally I think this is a copout answer. And it is becoming a very common answer.

Now that I think about it, probably not a copout answer but an answer from someone that just really hadn't made up your mind yet. That's ok, but this is 1 issue where I feel (in my own opinion only) you have to fall on 1 of 2 sides. Abortion is either murder or it isn't.

being prochoice means you allow a woman to make up her own mind about what is best for her situation. it doesnt mean telling her she should abort just cause she can. and it also doesnt mean forcing her to carry a pregnancy to term against her will.

Exactly, it isn't making a decision on the subject.

its not our decision to make. hence the choice part.

if a woman feels she needs to terminate her pregnancy for whatever reason then who am i to tell her NO she must carry to term.

if a woman decides that she will continue a pregnancy and give birth then who am i to say NO you must abort that foetus.

deciding to have an abortion is a difficult decision. deciding to continue on with a pregnancy is also a difficult decision. to make it more difficult by telllng a woman her decision is wrong is just bullshit imo.

_

CJMST3K wrote:

scb wrote:

Something like that. You can't have consciousness of the world until you're actually in the world. You can't have consciousness of yourself as an individual until you have consciousness of others. You can't learn to reason while your very limited "actions" don't yet create consistent reactions. You can't be an individual while you are still a growth within someone else.

Do you have a better theory?

I do have a better theory. That fetuses are indeed people, and their "presence of mind" develops as their body develops. I remember a professor in college put it best that the brain is like a lightbulb on a dimmer, which starts dark and becomes bright while developing.

Your belief (with all due respect) that their "presence of mind", which turns them from a non-person to a person has to do with the moment it took a breath and the moment it sees light seems completely arbitrary. It has nothing to do with brain development, but more about reaching a finish line. You don't see this as an arbitrary qualifier?

Also you mention that "You can't have consciousness of the world until you're actually in the world". Silly me, I thought women lived in the world. (pardon the levity )

Yeah, I see your point. But I think you are oversimplifying things. It's not just about brain development; it's also about experience and individuality. Their brains might be ready for self-consciousness and consciousness of the world, but they cannot experience it until they are born. And I don't think spending one's entire existence inside another person's womb counts as experiencing the world or being independent. Also, is not breathing air one of the biological characteristics that defines us as human beings? And birth is not a completely arbitrary qualifier. A butterfly is not a butterfly until it emerges from its cocoon. An acorn is not an oak tree until it sprouts from the ground.

At what point, then, do you think a fertilized egg becomes an actual person?

catefrances

cincybearcat wrote:

KO282453 wrote:

My veiws dont change with or with out weed well.... i guess... if i had to chose, i'm pro choice. i'm always for the individual's choice.

And I've come to be able to respect that. I disagree 100%, but respect the opinion. Though I do wish we had a society with zero abortions...and yes, I'm all for more sex education.

are you under the mistaken impression that abortions are a modern procedure???

BinauralJam

Well nobody like talking about sex more than me what do you need to know?