Personally I think this is a copout answer. And it is becoming a very common answer.
Now that I think about it, probably not a copout answer but an answer from someone that just really hadn't made up your mind yet. That's ok, but this is 1 issue where I feel (in my own opinion only) you have to fall on 1 of 2 sides. Abortion is either murder or it isn't.
I wouldn't say it's someone who hasn't made up his/her mind. On the contrary, this answer shows a thoughtfulness of the issue that most people who want to oversimplify it don't seem to have. I think when it's easier to categorize things in a simplistic way, well-thought-out, articulate, precise responses are harder to accept.
Well, if you think it's a life, then I don't know how you could support it. And if you don't think it's a life, I don't see how you could defend invading someone's personal medical decisions. So I think you'd have to be on 1 side or the other.
I think it's a life and I don't think the state should invade someone's personal medical decisions. So there you have it. Turns out you don't have to be on one "side" or the other. (I think it's this binary thinking that causes many of the problems we have in the world.)
Say your wife is 9 months pregnant you get into an altercation with someone at a concert, the person assults your wife and ends up kiling the fetus. Should the person be charged with assult or murder. This is your wife we are talking about.
Say your wife is 9 months pregnant you get into an altercation with someone at a concert, the person assults your wife and ends up kiling the fetus. Should the person be charged with assult or murder. This is your wife we are talking about.
well its not murder is it cause theres no intent to kill the unborn. legally speaking.
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Cincy - It just baffles me that you don't see the difference between being pro-choice about something but not necessarily pro-something. Aren't there issues where you respect the choices of others, though you might make a different choice? Isn't this one of the fundamental concepts of the founding of our nation?
For instance, I am pro-choice with regard to gun ownership, though I believe no one should own a gun. I am pro-choice with regard to circumcision, though I would not support getting my own child circumcised and I think it's torture. I am pro-choice with regard to homosexuality, though I am not gay. I am pro-choice with regard to some religions, though I believe their teachings are wrong. (Eh, "wrong" is a strong word, but you get my point.) Et cetera, et cetera.
Say your wife is 9 months pregnant you get into an altercation with someone at a concert, the person assults your wife and ends up kiling the fetus. Should the person be charged with assult or murder. This is your wife we are talking about.
Say your wife is 9 months pregnant you get into an altercation with someone at a concert, the person assults your wife and ends up kiling the fetus. Should the person be charged with assult or murder. This is your wife we are talking about.
I think it's a very complex issue. But ultimately I'd have to say there was no murder. So close... but nope.
Say your wife is 9 months pregnant you get into an altercation with someone at a concert, the person assults your wife and ends up kiling the fetus. Should the person be charged with assult or murder. This is your wife we are talking about.
I think it's a very complex issue. But ultimately I'd have to say there was no murder. So close... but nope.
Why do we declare someone is dead when their heart stops yet dont declare it life when the ultrasound picks up the heart beats of the fetus?
You know what if find really scarey, i think PJ fans are probably some of the most well informed and intelligent people i ever talked to, and we can't seem to all agree on ANYTHING. no wonder the worlds so screwed up.
Personally I think this is a copout answer. And it is becoming a very common answer.
Now that I think about it, probably not a copout answer but an answer from someone that just really hadn't made up your mind yet. That's ok, but this is 1 issue where I feel (in my own opinion only) you have to fall on 1 of 2 sides. Abortion is either murder or it isn't.
...
Common for me... sure. I have felt this way for decades.
Choice mean getting to choose.
Here are the choices...
Raise the child as your own.
Have the child and dump it on your Mom to raise.
Adopt the child out.
Terminate the Pregnanacy.
Don't get pregnant in the first place.
Choices don't only apply after the pregnancy... but let's say, the pregnancy has occurred... scratch the last option because she failed that one miserably.
Raise the child (or have Mom raise it)...
Adoption.
Abortion.
...
Depending on the variables... the woman's ability to raise a child or not... it depends.
I still place Abortion on the last resort column of my wishlist. I don't like it... but, it is STILL a legal medical procedure that is one the list.
And as I said, it is not my call to make... I cannot dictate that she raise it... or that she adopt it out... or that she abort it. You may feel you have the right and responsibility to make that call... or you may feel the government's infinite wisdom should decide... I don't feel the same way as you do.
If she chooses Abortion... I will not agree with it, but I am not the one who gets to decide.
...
So... instead of accepting my reasons... you try to pin me in the, 'Is Abortion Murder?' corner.
I'm going to go with 'No', it is a medical procedure that is currently legal in this country, like it or not.
...
But... I will say this... I would much rather have a woman get an abortion in a doctor's office, by a doctor... than having her attempt an abortion on her own, in a bathroom.
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Say your wife is 9 months pregnant you get into an altercation with someone at a concert, the person assults your wife and ends up kiling the fetus. Should the person be charged with assult or murder. This is your wife we are talking about.
I think it's a very complex issue. But ultimately I'd have to say there was no murder. So close... but nope.
Why do we declare someone is dead when their heart stops yet dont declare it life when the ultrasound picks up the heart beats of the fetus?
i know this may just fry your brain heidi, but i do think that the beating heart of a foetus means life.
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I think it's a very complex issue. But ultimately I'd have to say there was no murder. So close... but nope.
Why do we declare someone is dead when their heart stops yet dont declare it life when the ultrasound picks up the heart beats of the fetus?[/quote]
i know this may just fry your brain heidi, but i do think that the beating heart of a foetus means life.[/quote]
Do you think when a heart stops beating the person is dead?
Say your wife is 9 months pregnant you get into an altercation with someone at a concert, the person assults your wife and ends up kiling the fetus. Should the person be charged with assult or murder. This is your wife we are talking about.
I think it's a very complex issue. But ultimately I'd have to say there was no murder. So close... but nope.
Why do we declare someone is dead when their heart stops yet dont declare it life when the ultrasound picks up the heart beats of the fetus?
Well, for one thing we only declare them dead after their heart, lungs, etc. all stop. Generally if the heart stops the rest of the organs follow. The "heartbeat" of an embryo, however, is not the same as what we think of when we think of the heartbeat of a person. There's not really even a full-fledged organ called the heart at that point. Also, even if there were a heart and heartbeat like we think of them, just as a person is not dead until his heart AND lungs have stopped, why would a fetus be alive until his heart AND lungs have started?
Let me add...
I admit, I may change my viewpoint IF I am ever in the situation where I am the father. I don't know, but, I admit the possibility is there.
...
Also... I want to specify my first choice, so no one tries to spin my words... the first choice I would want the woman to make would be the giving me the blow job choice... that, and the anal.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
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Why is it all the people in the "Do humans value life" thread that were raggin on humans, yet see abortion as something acceptable for a civilived society?
Why is it all the people in the "Do humans value life" thread that were raggin on humans, yet see abortion as something acceptable for a civilived society?
where is this civilised society you live in??
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Why is it all the people in the "Do humans value life" thread that were raggin on humans, yet see abortion as something acceptable for a civilived society?
Whoever is pro choice, how long into the pregnancy do you believe you can have the abortion? 1 month? 2nd trimester? A day be for the due date?
Also do you think abortion is an acceptable form of contraception?
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05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
Why is it all the people in the "Do humans value life" thread that were raggin on humans, yet see abortion as something acceptable for a civilived society?
where is this civilised society you live in??
civ·i·lized /ˈsɪvəˌlaɪzd/ Show Spelled[siv-uh-lahyzd] Show IPA
–adjective
1. having an advanced or humane culture, society, etc.
2. polite; well-bred; refined.
3. of or pertaining to civilized people: The civilized world must fight ignorance.
4. easy to manage or control; well organized or ordered: The car is quiet and civilized, even in sharp turns.
There is the definition, are you saying we don't live in a civilized society?
Why do we declare someone is dead when their heart stops yet dont declare it life when the ultrasound picks up the heart beats of the fetus?
Well, for one thing we only declare them dead after their heart, lungs, etc. all stop. Generally if the heart stops the rest of the organs follow. The "heartbeat" of an embryo, however, is not the same as what we think of when we think of the heartbeat of a person. There's not really even a full-fledged organ called the heart at that point. Also, even if there were a heart and heartbeat like we think of them, just as a person is not dead until his heart AND lungs have stopped, why would a fetus be alive until his heart AND lungs have started?
:? Why is the heart more important than the lungs in your analogy? And so you're saying that if someone doesn't even have lungs (or a brain) then they're alive, even though if the lungs and brain stop the person is dead? I think this contradicts your original point. Regardless, if you saw a guy laying on the street with no lungs or brain would you really question whether or not he's alive??
Why is it all the people in the "Do humans value life" thread that were raggin on humans, yet see abortion as something acceptable for a civilived society?
where is this civilised society you live in??
civ·i·lized /ˈsɪvəˌlaɪzd/ Show Spelled[siv-uh-lahyzd] Show IPA
–adjective
1. having an advanced or humane culture, society, etc.
2. polite; well-bred; refined.
3. of or pertaining to civilized people: The civilized world must fight ignorance.
4. easy to manage or control; well organized or ordered: The car is quiet and civilized, even in sharp turns.
There is the definition, are you saying we don't live in a civilized society?
im saying it could be more civilised.
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:? Why is the heart more important than the lungs in your analogy? And so you're saying that if someone doesn't even have lungs (or a brain) then they're alive, even though if the lungs and brain stop the person is dead? I think this contradicts your original point. Regardless, if you saw a guy laying on the street with no lungs or brain would you really question whether or not he's alive??
Well, fetus don't use lungs like we do since they receive everything through the ambilical chord (sp).
Comments
I wouldn't say it's someone who hasn't made up his/her mind. On the contrary, this answer shows a thoughtfulness of the issue that most people who want to oversimplify it don't seem to have. I think when it's easier to categorize things in a simplistic way, well-thought-out, articulate, precise responses are harder to accept.
wouldnt a better question be what is a person??
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I think it's a life and I don't think the state should invade someone's personal medical decisions. So there you have it. Turns out you don't have to be on one "side" or the other. (I think it's this binary thinking that causes many of the problems we have in the world.)
I think we already covered that. Plus, I think the answer to your question lies within the answer to my question.
i dont think you did.
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well its not murder is it cause theres no intent to kill the unborn. legally speaking.
take a good look
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i just need to say
For instance, I am pro-choice with regard to gun ownership, though I believe no one should own a gun. I am pro-choice with regard to circumcision, though I would not support getting my own child circumcised and I think it's torture. I am pro-choice with regard to homosexuality, though I am not gay. I am pro-choice with regard to some religions, though I believe their teachings are wrong. (Eh, "wrong" is a strong word, but you get my point.) Et cetera, et cetera.
He will already be dead.
but ya murder i think.
I think it's a very complex issue. But ultimately I'd have to say there was no murder. So close... but nope.
Common for me... sure. I have felt this way for decades.
Choice mean getting to choose.
Here are the choices...
Raise the child as your own.
Have the child and dump it on your Mom to raise.
Adopt the child out.
Terminate the Pregnanacy.
Don't get pregnant in the first place.
Choices don't only apply after the pregnancy... but let's say, the pregnancy has occurred... scratch the last option because she failed that one miserably.
Raise the child (or have Mom raise it)...
Adoption.
Abortion.
...
Depending on the variables... the woman's ability to raise a child or not... it depends.
I still place Abortion on the last resort column of my wishlist. I don't like it... but, it is STILL a legal medical procedure that is one the list.
And as I said, it is not my call to make... I cannot dictate that she raise it... or that she adopt it out... or that she abort it. You may feel you have the right and responsibility to make that call... or you may feel the government's infinite wisdom should decide... I don't feel the same way as you do.
If she chooses Abortion... I will not agree with it, but I am not the one who gets to decide.
...
So... instead of accepting my reasons... you try to pin me in the, 'Is Abortion Murder?' corner.
I'm going to go with 'No', it is a medical procedure that is currently legal in this country, like it or not.
...
But... I will say this... I would much rather have a woman get an abortion in a doctor's office, by a doctor... than having her attempt an abortion on her own, in a bathroom.
Hail, Hail!!!
i know this may just fry your brain heidi, but i do think that the beating heart of a foetus means life.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
i know this may just fry your brain heidi, but i do think that the beating heart of a foetus means life.[/quote]
Do you think when a heart stops beating the person is dead?
Well, for one thing we only declare them dead after their heart, lungs, etc. all stop. Generally if the heart stops the rest of the organs follow. The "heartbeat" of an embryo, however, is not the same as what we think of when we think of the heartbeat of a person. There's not really even a full-fledged organ called the heart at that point. Also, even if there were a heart and heartbeat like we think of them, just as a person is not dead until his heart AND lungs have stopped, why would a fetus be alive until his heart AND lungs have started?
generally.. yes.
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I admit, I may change my viewpoint IF I am ever in the situation where I am the father. I don't know, but, I admit the possibility is there.
...
Also... I want to specify my first choice, so no one tries to spin my words... the first choice I would want the woman to make would be the giving me the blow job choice... that, and the anal.
Hail, Hail!!!
Is that an answer to my question or were you talking to someone else?
where is this civilised society you live in??
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http://forums.pearljam.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=135746#p3062131
Also do you think abortion is an acceptable form of contraception?
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
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–adjective
1. having an advanced or humane culture, society, etc.
2. polite; well-bred; refined.
3. of or pertaining to civilized people: The civilized world must fight ignorance.
4. easy to manage or control; well organized or ordered: The car is quiet and civilized, even in sharp turns.
There is the definition, are you saying we don't live in a civilized society?
:? Why is the heart more important than the lungs in your analogy? And so you're saying that if someone doesn't even have lungs (or a brain) then they're alive, even though if the lungs and brain stop the person is dead? I think this contradicts your original point. Regardless, if you saw a guy laying on the street with no lungs or brain would you really question whether or not he's alive??
Like, how long into the pregnancy are you allowed to have an abortion?
Also, abortion is not a form of contraception.
im saying it could be more civilised.
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