The difference between the death penalty and abortion

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cincybearcat wrote:

arq wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

I am Pro Choice. Not Pro Abortion...

+1

Personally I think this is a copout answer. And it is becoming a very common answer.

Now that I think about it, probably not a copout answer but an answer from someone that just really hadn't made up your mind yet. That's ok, but this is 1 issue where I feel (in my own opinion only) you have to fall on 1 of 2 sides. Abortion is either murder or it isn't.

I wouldn't say it's someone who hasn't made up his/her mind. On the contrary, this answer shows a thoughtfulness of the issue that most people who want to oversimplify it don't seem to have. I think when it's easier to categorize things in a simplistic way, well-thought-out, articulate, precise responses are harder to accept.

catefrances

scb wrote:

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At what point, then, do you think a fertilized egg becomes an actual person?

wouldnt a better question be what is a person??

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cincybearcat wrote:

Well, if you think it's a life, then I don't know how you could support it. And if you don't think it's a life, I don't see how you could defend invading someone's personal medical decisions. So I think you'd have to be on 1 side or the other.

I think it's a life and I don't think the state should invade someone's personal medical decisions. So there you have it. Turns out you don't have to be on one "side" or the other. (I think it's this binary thinking that causes many of the problems we have in the world.)

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catefrances wrote:

scb wrote:

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At what point, then, do you think a fertilized egg becomes an actual person?

wouldnt a better question be what is a person??

I think we already covered that. Plus, I think the answer to your question lies within the answer to my question.

catefrances

scb wrote:

catefrances wrote:

scb wrote:

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At what point, then, do you think a fertilized egg becomes an actual person?

wouldnt a better question be what is a person??

I think we already covered that. Plus, I think the answer to your question lies within the answer to my question.

i dont think you did.

Blockhead

Say your wife is 9 months pregnant you get into an altercation with someone at a concert, the person assults your wife and ends up kiling the fetus. Should the person be charged with assult or murder. This is your wife we are talking about.

catefrances

HeidiJam wrote:

Say your wife is 9 months pregnant you get into an altercation with someone at a concert, the person assults your wife and ends up kiling the fetus. Should the person be charged with assult or murder. This is your wife we are talking about.

well its not murder is it cause theres no intent to kill the unborn. legally speaking.

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Cincy - It just baffles me that you don't see the difference between being pro-choice about something but not necessarily pro-something. Aren't there issues where you respect the choices of others, though you might make a different choice? Isn't this one of the fundamental concepts of the founding of our nation?

For instance, I am pro-choice with regard to gun ownership, though I believe no one should own a gun. I am pro-choice with regard to circumcision, though I would not support getting my own child circumcised and I think it's torture. I am pro-choice with regard to homosexuality, though I am not gay. I am pro-choice with regard to some religions, though I believe their teachings are wrong. (Eh, "wrong" is a strong word, but you get my point.) Et cetera, et cetera.

BinauralJam

HeidiJam wrote:

Say your wife is 9 months pregnant you get into an altercation with someone at a concert, the person assults your wife and ends up kiling the fetus. Should the person be charged with assult or murder. This is your wife we are talking about.

He will already be dead.
but ya murder i think.

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HeidiJam wrote:

Say your wife is 9 months pregnant you get into an altercation with someone at a concert, the person assults your wife and ends up kiling the fetus. Should the person be charged with assult or murder. This is your wife we are talking about.

I think it's a very complex issue. But ultimately I'd have to say there was no murder. So close... but nope.

Blockhead

scb wrote:

HeidiJam wrote:

Say your wife is 9 months pregnant you get into an altercation with someone at a concert, the person assults your wife and ends up kiling the fetus. Should the person be charged with assult or murder. This is your wife we are talking about.

I think it's a very complex issue. But ultimately I'd have to say there was no murder. So close... but nope.

Why do we declare someone is dead when their heart stops yet dont declare it life when the ultrasound picks up the heart beats of the fetus?

BinauralJam

You know what if find really scarey, i think PJ fans are probably some of the most well informed and intelligent people i ever talked to, and we can't seem to all agree on ANYTHING. no wonder the worlds so screwed up.

Cosmo

cincybearcat wrote:

arq wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

I am Pro Choice. Not Pro Abortion...

+1

Personally I think this is a copout answer. And it is becoming a very common answer.

Now that I think about it, probably not a copout answer but an answer from someone that just really hadn't made up your mind yet. That's ok, but this is 1 issue where I feel (in my own opinion only) you have to fall on 1 of 2 sides. Abortion is either murder or it isn't.

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Common for me... sure. I have felt this way for decades.
Choice mean getting to choose.
Here are the choices...
Raise the child as your own.
Have the child and dump it on your Mom to raise.
Adopt the child out.
Terminate the Pregnanacy.
Don't get pregnant in the first place.
Choices don't only apply after the pregnancy... but let's say, the pregnancy has occurred... scratch the last option because she failed that one miserably.
Raise the child (or have Mom raise it)...
Adoption.
Abortion.
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Depending on the variables... the woman's ability to raise a child or not... it depends.
I still place Abortion on the last resort column of my wishlist. I don't like it... but, it is STILL a legal medical procedure that is one the list.
And as I said, it is not my call to make... I cannot dictate that she raise it... or that she adopt it out... or that she abort it. You may feel you have the right and responsibility to make that call... or you may feel the government's infinite wisdom should decide... I don't feel the same way as you do.
If she chooses Abortion... I will not agree with it, but I am not the one who gets to decide.
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So... instead of accepting my reasons... you try to pin me in the, 'Is Abortion Murder?' corner.
I'm going to go with 'No', it is a medical procedure that is currently legal in this country, like it or not.
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But... I will say this... I would much rather have a woman get an abortion in a doctor's office, by a doctor... than having her attempt an abortion on her own, in a bathroom.

catefrances

HeidiJam wrote:

scb wrote:

HeidiJam wrote:

Say your wife is 9 months pregnant you get into an altercation with someone at a concert, the person assults your wife and ends up kiling the fetus. Should the person be charged with assult or murder. This is your wife we are talking about.

I think it's a very complex issue. But ultimately I'd have to say there was no murder. So close... but nope.

Why do we declare someone is dead when their heart stops yet dont declare it life when the ultrasound picks up the heart beats of the fetus?

i know this may just fry your brain heidi, but i do think that the beating heart of a foetus means life.

Blockhead

"catefrances wrote:

I think it's a very complex issue. But ultimately I'd have to say there was no murder. So close... but nope.

Why do we declare someone is dead when their heart stops yet dont declare it life when the ultrasound picks up the heart beats of the fetus?[/quote]

i know this may just fry your brain heidi, but i do think that the beating heart of a foetus means life.[/quote]
Do you think when a heart stops beating the person is dead?

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HeidiJam wrote:

scb wrote:

HeidiJam wrote:

Say your wife is 9 months pregnant you get into an altercation with someone at a concert, the person assults your wife and ends up kiling the fetus. Should the person be charged with assult or murder. This is your wife we are talking about.

I think it's a very complex issue. But ultimately I'd have to say there was no murder. So close... but nope.

Why do we declare someone is dead when their heart stops yet dont declare it life when the ultrasound picks up the heart beats of the fetus?

Well, for one thing we only declare them dead after their heart, lungs, etc. all stop. Generally if the heart stops the rest of the organs follow. The "heartbeat" of an embryo, however, is not the same as what we think of when we think of the heartbeat of a person. There's not really even a full-fledged organ called the heart at that point. Also, even if there were a heart and heartbeat like we think of them, just as a person is not dead until his heart AND lungs have stopped, why would a fetus be alive until his heart AND lungs have started?

catefrances

HeidiJam wrote:

Do you think when a heart stops beating the person is dead?

generally.. yes.

Cosmo

Let me add...
I admit, I may change my viewpoint IF I am ever in the situation where I am the father. I don't know, but, I admit the possibility is there.
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Also... I want to specify my first choice, so no one tries to spin my words... the first choice I would want the woman to make would be the giving me the blow job choice... that, and the anal.

Blockhead

because it hasn't devloped yet...

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HeidiJam wrote:

because it hasn't devloped yet...

Is that an answer to my question or were you talking to someone else?