The PJ sell-out debate ends here

somebodyelsessky2020

I must admit I thought the Target commercial was pretty, pretty, pretty, corny but hey everyone has bills to pay.

Now if Ed ever does a duet with a Jonas brother then I'd start to worry about things just a wee bit

dunkman

JimmyV wrote:

dunkman wrote:

JimmyV wrote:

The "sell out" accusation is such a joke. I'm not working for free, neither are you, why should they? If you don't like it find another band. There are a-plenty to choose from.

who is saying that? can't you people read?

glad to see the old "if you don't like it find another band" nugget of wisdom coming out... it's up there in the top 10 lines of things 5 year old would say in an argument... right behind "it's my ball and you're not playing" which is number 1.

I will admit, I have not read through every page of this debate, but when people get up in arms about them playing three songs for Target -- a company they partnered with to sell a record the band self-released rather than go through a record company -- I have to laugh. Why shouldn't they have played the show? Why should it bother the posters on this board? I'm sure they were compensated nicely for it and good for them! I get paid, so should they.

I do think many defenses of this band are blind, but when this topic comes -- and it does, all the fucking time it seems -- just as many of the attacks are just as blind.

If what they have done makes them sell-outs, and if that is too much for you to bare, then yes, move on to another band.

why do you keep referring to my posts about the sell-out aspect of this? I don't care if they have 'sold out' or whatever phrase people use... i'm just not a fan of hypocrisy. PJ playing corporate gigs, TV ads, music on TV channels and all that is genuinely fine by me if the band acknowledge that fact and don't try and preach to us about big business and corporations ruling the day...

i repeat, i have no issue with them playing gigs like this, no problems with Saturday Night tv appearances, couldnt give a fuck about them making videos, rock band, whatever... the list goes on... what is really fucking annoying, and especially over the last few days its more apparent is that people think 10club and PJ can literally do no wrong...

i keep getting told "oh its a business dude" or "they are not a charity" etc etc etc... but so is my hairdresser.. but if she started charging me twice what she charged me 5 years ago and then on top of that started charging me a credit transaction fee every time i went i would be entitled to say to her "hey, what the fuck is going on with the costs?"

Dissidentman

dunkman wrote:

why do you keep referring to my posts about the sell-out aspect of this? I don't care if they have 'sold out' or whatever phrase people use... i'm just not a fan of hypocrisy. PJ playing corporate gigs, TV ads, music on TV channels and all that is genuinely fine by me if the band acknowledge that fact and don't try and preach to us about big business and corporations ruling the day...

i repeat, i have no issue with them playing gigs like this, no problems with Saturday Night tv appearances, couldnt give a fuck about them making videos, rock band, whatever... the list goes on... what is really fucking annoying, and especially over the last few days its more apparent is that people think 10club and PJ can literally do no wrong...

i keep getting told "oh its a business dude" or "they are not a charity" etc etc etc... but so is my hairdresser.. but if she started charging me twice what she charged me 5 years ago and then on top of that started charging me a credit transaction fee every time i went i would be entitled to say to her "hey, what the fuck is going on with the costs?"

What concerns me about this, is that you have a hairdresser.

dunkman

Dissidentman wrote:

dunkman wrote:

why do you keep referring to my posts about the sell-out aspect of this? I don't care if they have 'sold out' or whatever phrase people use... i'm just not a fan of hypocrisy. PJ playing corporate gigs, TV ads, music on TV channels and all that is genuinely fine by me if the band acknowledge that fact and don't try and preach to us about big business and corporations ruling the day...

i repeat, i have no issue with them playing gigs like this, no problems with Saturday Night tv appearances, couldnt give a fuck about them making videos, rock band, whatever... the list goes on... what is really fucking annoying, and especially over the last few days its more apparent is that people think 10club and PJ can literally do no wrong...

i keep getting told "oh its a business dude" or "they are not a charity" etc etc etc... but so is my hairdresser.. but if she started charging me twice what she charged me 5 years ago and then on top of that started charging me a credit transaction fee every time i went i would be entitled to say to her "hey, what the fuck is going on with the costs?"

What concerns me about this, is that you have a hairdresser.

do you blame me?

JimmyV

dunkman wrote:

dunkman wrote:

JimmyV wrote:

who is saying that? can't you people read?

glad to see the old "if you don't like it find another band" nugget of wisdom coming out... it's up there in the top 10 lines of things 5 year old would say in an argument... right behind "it's my ball and you're not playing" which is number 1.

I will admit, I have not read through every page of this debate, but when people get up in arms about them playing three songs for Target -- a company they partnered with to sell a record the band self-released rather than go through a record company -- I have to laugh. Why shouldn't they have played the show? Why should it bother the posters on this board? I'm sure they were compensated nicely for it and good for them! I get paid, so should they.

I do think many defenses of this band are blind, but when this topic comes -- and it does, all the fucking time it seems -- just as many of the attacks are just as blind.

If what they have done makes them sell-outs, and if that is too much for you to bare, then yes, move on to another band.

why do you keep referring to my posts about the sell-out aspect of this? I don't care if they have 'sold out' or whatever phrase people use... i'm just not a fan of hypocrisy. PJ playing corporate gigs, TV ads, music on TV channels and all that is genuinely fine by me if the band acknowledge that fact and don't try and preach to us about big business and corporations ruling the day...

i repeat, i have no issue with them playing gigs like this, no problems with Saturday Night tv appearances, couldnt give a fuck about them making videos, rock band, whatever... the list goes on... what is really fucking annoying, and especially over the last few days its more apparent is that people think 10club and PJ can literally do no wrong...

i keep getting told "oh its a business dude" or "they are not a charity" etc etc etc... but so is my hairdresser.. but if she started charging me twice what she charged me 5 years ago and then on top of that started charging me a credit transaction fee every time i went i would be entitled to say to her "hey, what the fuck is going on with the costs?"

Because I had no intention of referring to your posts at all when I originally posted. My point was to praise what Solarworld said very well, and to give my own two cents on the topic at hand --which, unfortunately, is yet another "debate about the band selling out. You quoted me and so I responded. If you don't think the band has sold out then don't feel you need to debate me any longer.

JimmyV

dunkman wrote:

Dissidentman wrote:

dunkman wrote:

why do you keep referring to my posts about the sell-out aspect of this? I don't care if they have 'sold out' or whatever phrase people use... i'm just not a fan of hypocrisy. PJ playing corporate gigs, TV ads, music on TV channels and all that is genuinely fine by me if the band acknowledge that fact and don't try and preach to us about big business and corporations ruling the day...

i repeat, i have no issue with them playing gigs like this, no problems with Saturday Night tv appearances, couldnt give a fuck about them making videos, rock band, whatever... the list goes on... what is really fucking annoying, and especially over the last few days its more apparent is that people think 10club and PJ can literally do no wrong...

i keep getting told "oh its a business dude" or "they are not a charity" etc etc etc... but so is my hairdresser.. but if she started charging me twice what she charged me 5 years ago and then on top of that started charging me a credit transaction fee every time i went i would be entitled to say to her "hey, what the fuck is going on with the costs?"

What concerns me about this, is that you have a hairdresser.

do you blame me?

And if that is what your hairdresser looks like then no, I don't blame you at all.

neilybabes86

dunkman wrote:

Dissidentman wrote:

dunkman wrote:

why do you keep referring to my posts about the sell-out aspect of this? I don't care if they have 'sold out' or whatever phrase people use... i'm just not a fan of hypocrisy. PJ playing corporate gigs, TV ads, music on TV channels and all that is genuinely fine by me if the band acknowledge that fact and don't try and preach to us about big business and corporations ruling the day...

i repeat, i have no issue with them playing gigs like this, no problems with Saturday Night tv appearances, couldnt give a fuck about them making videos, rock band, whatever... the list goes on... what is really fucking annoying, and especially over the last few days its more apparent is that people think 10club and PJ can literally do no wrong...

i keep getting told "oh its a business dude" or "they are not a charity" etc etc etc... but so is my hairdresser.. but if she started charging me twice what she charged me 5 years ago and then on top of that started charging me a credit transaction fee every time i went i would be entitled to say to her "hey, what the fuck is going on with the costs?"

What concerns me about this, is that you have a hairdresser.

do you blame me?

is she cutting your scalp ?

glorified K

i bet ed still used the word FUCK when singing porch. take that you coorperate fuckers.
if they did an version, then maybe they have "sold out"
--
really............ who gives a shit? i still like their music and that is what matters most at the end of the day.

dunkman

neilybabes86 wrote:

dunkman wrote:

do you blame me?

is she cutting your scalp ?

I have no idea... my mind is on 2 other things.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

MrSmith wrote:

all i know is what he's said about a million and one times at shows. the proof is right there. covering up corporate banners, talking shit about the people in the skyboxes, etc etc etc. just admit it. i doesnt destroy my love for the music, because i dont give a shit what their stances are anyway, but the fact is they sold out by their OWN standards.

they really dont NEED Target, and no, they wouldnt go broke in a year. that is fucking crazy. do you follow any other bands?

and the only thing they owe me personally is the twenty bucks i paid for Avocado. for the rest were even!

ok, so they would have to suck up the cost of promotion, distribution, etc etc, and you think they can afford to do all that and then tour with no promotion behind it and still be in the black? I'm glad you aren't my accountant. You honestly believe they are all billionaires in huge mansions with Bunny Lebowski's sitting by their pools?

Do I follow any other bands? WTF kind of question is that? No, I listen to MB demos when I wake up, continue with No Code with my Alphagetti at wunchtime, and finish the night off with a nice nightcap of ITW. Gimme a break.
:roll:

Look, standards and situations change. They were against "the man" when that particular man was doing harm to the people. they obviously feel that Target is a decent enough organization to do business with. Why is that so difficult to grasp??

Hugh Freaking Dillon

glorified K wrote:

i bet ed still used the word FUCK when singing porch. take that you coorperate fuckers.
if they did an version, then maybe they have "sold out"
--
really............ who gives a shit? i still like their music and that is what matters most at the end of the day.

then I guess that means they sold out by doing MTV Unplugged and censoring himself!

uskidsknow

the music industry has changed, folks. bands need to do different things now in order to make money, which includes signing deals with chains like Target in order to have creative license.

The extent to which people put this band on an unreachable pedestal only sets them up for failure.

Dissidentman

dunkman wrote:

Dissidentman wrote:

dunkman wrote:

why do you keep referring to my posts about the sell-out aspect of this? I don't care if they have 'sold out' or whatever phrase people use... i'm just not a fan of hypocrisy. PJ playing corporate gigs, TV ads, music on TV channels and all that is genuinely fine by me if the band acknowledge that fact and don't try and preach to us about big business and corporations ruling the day...

i repeat, i have no issue with them playing gigs like this, no problems with Saturday Night tv appearances, couldnt give a fuck about them making videos, rock band, whatever... the list goes on... what is really fucking annoying, and especially over the last few days its more apparent is that people think 10club and PJ can literally do no wrong...

i keep getting told "oh its a business dude" or "they are not a charity" etc etc etc... but so is my hairdresser.. but if she started charging me twice what she charged me 5 years ago and then on top of that started charging me a credit transaction fee every time i went i would be entitled to say to her "hey, what the fuck is going on with the costs?"

What concerns me about this, is that you have a hairdresser.

do you blame me?

um... I take that back...

ComeToTX

I, like some of you am annoyed more by the fact that they can go out of their way to play this show but have ignored most of the country for the last 7 years. For me it wasn't always just about the music but it has become that way lately.

Over the last 20 years I've grown up, gotten married, had a kid, made money but one thing that hasnt changed are my morals, values and ideals.

I swear some of you don't listen to any other bands. There are plenty of groups that make a great living without doing shit like this.

Dissidentman

neilybabes86 wrote:

is she cutting your scalp ?

She has to, he gets 3 haircuts a week....

mikepegg44

concertaholicshirt wrote:

JeffSide wrote:

Not only did they sell out long ago, They sound like shit!!
It's ok admit that they ain't to good anymore. You won't lose your membership.

Someone who clearly wasn't at the Halloween show at The Spectrum.

JeffSide wrote:

UpSideDown wrote:

these guys just donated $200,000 to Haiti..........I didn't see any posts about that.

When your rich and famous... That's what you do.
It's a tax write-off.

To quote an astute poster here, you're kind of an ass, aren't you? Assuming that the boys pay somewhere in the neighborhood of 40% in income taxes, well... that's the only 'break' they're getting... that's still a $120K out of their pockets. Yeah... just some rich boys gettin' over on the ole tax breaks :roll: :roll: :roll:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

All of that said... screw all ya'll MoFos... Buble is da' shizzle :twisted:

Couldnt agree more

I hate the term sell outs. They are sell outs, every fucking show. They are doing this for a living. The only people who can call someone else a sell out are those that are living on the street by choice and have given everything they have ever begged for away to someone else.
And for those who don't know TARGET is the most CHARITABLE CORPORATION IN THE WORLD. They give away millions of dollars IN CASH every year and have for as long as they have been profitable.

And before you come with the tired "doing it for tax breaks" stupid ass argument let me say this, the only people who say rich people only give to charity for the tax breaks have no money to give away. Couldn't it be that some people just give away a percentage of their income, no matter what it is, to charities? Go fuck yourselves and get back to listening to shitty bands and pretending to like them just in case they get popular.

littlewingfridays

More important things need to be discussed :

Philly Boots - delayed b/c of tour ? or meant to be released in conjunction with tour ? Never coming :shock: ?

Gonzo1977

Umm...You act like this is the first time Pearl Jam has shared the bill with shitty acts.

You know, It's funny that this word "Sellout" gets thrown around so much.

What's even funnier is that it's thrown around by a bunch of clowns who have no idea what or where to correctly apply this term.

Making money and playing shows do not make someone a sell out.

Besides...I don't know what sacred idealistic pipe dream planet some of you waterheads come from, but last time I checked Pearl Jam hasn't been an indie band since about 1990.

They have a VERY LARGE fanbase and are VERY VERY RICH because they have sold MANY MANY RECORDS.

Their last record was their best selling album in years...

Backspacer is quickly approaching the 500,000 mark which will make it one of the biggest selling independent albums ever.

This partly due in thanks to Target. So forgive the band if this is their way of saying thank you.

What you fail to realize is that the climate has changed for musicians these days. Record companies have crumbled and traditional methods of getting your record out to the public have changed so dramatically in the last 10 years that bands like Pearl Jam -As rich and successful as they are- to seek out other deals with companies such as Target just to exsist and stay relevant.

1) I still don't see them selling their songs to commercials...unlike some of your sacred bullet proof Indie band flavors of the month who are selling their songs to commercials jleft right and centre.

2) They're not jumping on the Monopoly Gravy Train called "Live Nation" like U2, Madonna...ect, ect, ect signing for multi million dollar contracts and losing control over their music and merchandising

3) Their tickets are still cheaper than any band of their stature.

If you just pull your heads out of your snooty asses for a minute and realize that there are many ways in which this band could be robbing, stealing, and screwing you sideways right now.

But they've chosen not to, and have fought for us at every corner despite a music industry that is very different now than what it was then....and changing more and more by the minute.

Sure they've had to make some compromises, but I truly believe that they still care very deaply for the music fan and us 10 club assholes despite our short sighted dingbat theories on how playing a private shows for Target, or doing TV shows and interviews, or making an effort to promote your music is some how some kind of sell out move.

This term should have died in the 1990's because it no longer makes sense today.

I'm thankful that this band is still relevant after all these years.

They can play where ever the fuck they want...I'm just glad that my favorite band is still around and that more and more people are getting exposed to them.

The world can only be a better place with more Pearl Jam...So bring it on.

See You Out There.

Gern Blansten

well said...

Look at Tom Petty's recent tour.....he segregates the best tickets out for $300/ticket....for Tom Petty

sgtppr67

SoonForgotten2 wrote:

So exactly what prevents them from doing what Radiohead did with "In Rainbows"? That's the model PJ should follow and that's a band that has managed to keep their dignity fully intact. I doubt any of their children are goin hungry either.

Radiohead put out a streaming quality audio version of In Rainbows for the name your own price venture.That's all good if you like to listen to your music on myspace, that's not me though. After they did that guess what came next? There RECORD LABEL put the cd into all of the stores to sell the physical product. They got a too much credit for this. Ask me Trent Reznor had a better approach for his free music, but didn't get near the press for it.