The PJ sell-out debate ends here

Eddieredder

Its not 1991 anymore. Things cost more. For you and everyone else. It is what it is. Sorry folks.....but bands and artists evolve. Times have changed. If you think they sold out and don't like them anymore......don't buy their albums or go to the shows. Its real easy. They have the right to make money. Sometimes its not about you.

But lets not act like they are doing the next Transformers soundtrack or Eddie is joining the next cast of the next version of CSI. Mike hasn't accepted his invite on "Dancing with the Stars" yet. Are they booking Vegas for months at a time yet? Floor tickets don't start at $250-300 like they do for U2.........do they?

All bands need a big box retailer like Target. Guess what happens if they don't have one? The CD will cost you like $20 bucks!!! Can you imagine the complaining then?

Does anyone else out there put up every single concert up for download?

ComeToTX

Eddieredder wrote:

Its not 1991 anymore. Things cost more. For you and everyone else. It is what it is. Sorry folks.....but bands and artists evolve. Times have changed. If you think they sold out and don't like them anymore......don't buy their albums or go to the shows. Its real easy. They have the right to make money. Sometimes its not about you.

But lets not act like they are doing the next Transformers soundtrack or Eddie is joining the next cast of the next version of CSI. Mike hasn't accepted his invite on "Dancing with the Stars" yet. Are they booking Vegas for months at a time yet? Floor tickets don't start at $250-300 like they do for U2.........do they?

All bands need a big box retailer like Target. Guess what happens if they don't have one? The CD will cost you like $20 bucks!!! Can you imagine the complaining then?

Does anyone else out there put up every single concert up for download?

All bands need a big box retailer? 99.9% of bands don't have one. How many people are walking into Target to buy vinyl anyway? Yes, other bands release their concerts but they were one of the first.

Gern Blansten

ComeToTX wrote:

All bands need a big box retailer? 99.9% of bands don't have one. How many people are walking into Target to buy vinyl anyway? Yes, other bands release their concerts but they were one of the first.

uh......what?

Haywood Yablomee

BW144529 wrote:

I was just thinking..... I am poster artist. I do some work for small local bands, friends, etc. If a band like Nickelback came up to me tomorrow and said "We'll give you 50 thousand dollars to make posters for our next tour" I would take that in a heart beat. I hate Nickelback.... Hate them. Despise them. Loathe them. But, if it meant I could quit my crappy part time job, stay at home, draw all day, make posters, watch movies, I'm in. Couldn't careless about principle blah blah blah. How many people on here would do something similar? How many people here have bought clothes, toys, food, from China? No one here has a clean sheet. I never, ever, put PJ up on some godly pedestal when it comes to principle or integrity. Everything is business. Everything is about money. Denying it doesn't make it untrue. Just makes you a naive idiot... if you live in north america you are as much apart of the problem as any band taking money from a target, walmart, etc. Don't care what you read, or what you do, what you wear, what you eat. You benefit from this countries foreign policies and greed. You suck too. Get over it and move on. Get over it and do something about it other than wearing second hand clothes and eating organic pickles. You have changed nothing and never will, because big business controls you, just like it does any band that was or wants to be famous.

Ask Brad Klausen of his opinion of the direction PJ has taken...

concertaholicshirt

dunkman wrote:

Kings of Leon
Arcade Fire
Muse
Radiohead
Raconteurs

all of those bands were £30 or less.

It's beyond me how any of them with the possible exception of Radiohead, and that's a stretch, can be considered in the same league as Pearl Jam. Seriously... give me a break. I go to a LOT of shows. PJ is the 'youngest' of these, but AC/DC, Metallica, Bruce and PJ are the only four HUGE bands that come to mind that are gentle with fans when it comes to ticket prices, with PJ being the best. I can't believe people whinging about $60-80 ticket prices. Freakin' U2 was charging $250 (plus fees) for shite seats in the back rows up to half way back of the first level at the outdoors Giants Stadium last year and has a $250 ticket in the 2nd level right now for the July 19 show, both seats of which are probably equivalent to being midway back in the 400 Level at the indoors MSG. Clapton is a guitar hero of mine, but an utter whore in recent years when it comes to ticket prices. George Michael, KISS and even Journey are all brutal. Even the Jane's Addiction/NIN shows last year were $80 for a decent seat, and I don't consider even the combined weight of the double bill to be anywhere near PJ's stature.

Freakin'-A, People, cut my Crackahs a break here. Go out and earn a little more money... quit blowing money on XBox/PS3/Wii games.... make your own coffee... drive a cheaper car.. get a roommate. Do what it takes to buy the things that really matter to you. Bottom line... lighten the freak up and quit expecting the world to bend to your whims. Hearing 'Evenflow' in Philly was one of the greatest experiences in my concertgoing life, and I've had a lot of great moments. I don't begrudge these guys anything, and am grateful for the phenomenal joy they've brought me with their songs over the years. Get a little perspective, Folks.

Haywood Yablomee

Eddieredder wrote:

Does anyone else out there put up every single concert up for download?

Yes, Numerous bands...

ComeToTX

Gern Blansten wrote:

ComeToTX wrote:

All bands need a big box retailer? 99.9% of bands don't have one. How many people are walking into Target to buy vinyl anyway? Yes, other bands release their concerts but they were one of the first.

uh......what?

Sorry, I know bands need places to sell their records but 99.9% of bands don't have their own exclusive retailer. I misspoke.

I have no problem with the Target deal. I never did. This discussion was about them flying to MN to play a 3 song set for Target employees. People say this band loves their fans but obviously they love Target employees more becuase they aren't playing shows in most of the country.

Lizard

VanquarTheGreat wrote:

If you don't like the way a band conducts business or think they're hypocrites, why support them? It's real simple.
Just drop your membership and don't buy any of the bands merchandise.

Well now you're just being logical.
This is no place for that!!!!!

zootown

VanquarTheGreat wrote:

If you don't like the way a band conducts business or think they're hypocrites, why support them? It's real simple.
Just drop your membership and don't buy any of the bands merchandise.

THIS would be the response I would bet that any of band members (especially Jeff or Eddie who run the band for all intensive purposes) would give if they could be honest....in fact, I once made the mistake of commenting about Eddie's voice showing some wear and tear from smoking....and needless to say one of the band said "if you dont like it, then dont listen to it" and promptly abandoned his drink and left me sitting with my foot firmly planted in my mouth! Bottom line: I think that PJ has been steadfast about trying to be fair to their fanbase, but make no mistake, money and having as much control as possible over their music has been taking precedence over "fighting the man" for a long long time.

ComeToTX

zootown wrote:

VanquarTheGreat wrote:

If you don't like the way a band conducts business or think they're hypocrites, why support them? It's real simple.
Just drop your membership and don't buy any of the bands merchandise.

THIS would be the response I would bet that any of band members (especially Jeff or Eddie who run the band for all intensive purposes) would give if they could be honest....in fact, I once made the mistake of commenting about Eddie's voice showing some wear and tear from smoking....and needless to say one of the band said "if you dont like it, then dont listen to it" and promptly abandoned his drink and left me sitting with my foot firmly planted in my mouth! Bottom line: I think that PJ has been steadfast about trying to be fair to their fanbase, but make no mistake, money and having as much control as possible over their music has been taking precedence over "fighting the man" for a long long time.

Some of us like the music and put the things you mentioned aside.

Eddieredder

JeffSide wrote:

Eddieredder wrote:

Does anyone else out there put up every single concert up for download?

Yes, Numerous bands...

Good for them. PJ bootlegs used to go for like $40-100 back in the 90s in my area. I have always thought it was a cool thing for them to do. $10 to dl a 2.5 hour show is a pretty good deal IMO. Pretty sure they could charge more if they wanted to .

GTFLYGIRL

it's a business. business deals are made.

ooohhhh... pearl jam played a 15 minutes set at a corporate event for the corporation that they made a huge business deal with earlier in the year. whatever. sell outs? whatever.................

dunkman

concertaholicshirt wrote:

dunkman wrote:

Kings of Leon
Arcade Fire
Muse
Radiohead
Raconteurs

all of those bands were £30 or less.

It's beyond me how any of them with the possible exception of Radiohead, and that's a stretch, can be considered in the same league as Pearl Jam.

I never said they were... but in todays terms they are more culturally relevant and all of their current releases outsell Pearl Jam's current releases. So in terms of stature, which was the point all along, these bands have a bit more clout when it comes to current fans and the number of purchases.

PJ tickets are double the price of a Muse or Radiohead ticket... why? why is this? It's quite simply that they can and will make a lot of money from an extremely devoted fan base.

zootown

ComeToTX wrote:

zootown wrote:

VanquarTheGreat wrote:

If you don't like the way a band conducts business or think they're hypocrites, why support them? It's real simple.
Just drop your membership and don't buy any of the bands merchandise.

THIS would be the response I would bet that any of band members (especially Jeff or Eddie who run the band for all intensive purposes) would give if they could be honest....in fact, I once made the mistake of commenting about Eddie's voice showing some wear and tear from smoking....and needless to say one of the band said "if you dont like it, then dont listen to it" and promptly abandoned his drink and left me sitting with my foot firmly planted in my mouth! Bottom line: I think that PJ has been steadfast about trying to be fair to their fanbase, but make no mistake, money and having as much control as possible over their music has been taking precedence over "fighting the man" for a long long time.

Some of us like the music and put the things you mentioned aside.

Im with you....I will decide if I like a band based on ONE THING....the music. The one "personal" aspect of this band that I have always liked and I actually feel they have been consistent with is that they have always tried to do things THEIR WAY...with no apologies or real explanation. Partnering with Verizon or Target was what they saw as their next, best move so that is what they did. I will continue to support this band if and only if their music continues to inspire and challenge me, the only reason I would ever support a band.

And just for a little perspective, outside of the amazing Neil Young, just about everyone has allowed their music to be used by other companies. The one that comes to mind the most is the Beatles- who many still consider the greatest rock music ever....regardless of whatever business decisions Paul McCartney made, its the music that matters.

breath123

dunkman wrote:

concertaholicshirt wrote:

dunkman wrote:

Kings of Leon
Arcade Fire
Muse
Radiohead
Raconteurs

all of those bands were £30 or less.

It's beyond me how any of them with the possible exception of Radiohead, and that's a stretch, can be considered in the same league as Pearl Jam.

I never said they were... but in todays terms they are more culturally relevant and all of their current releases outsell Pearl Jam's current releases. So in terms of stature, which was the point all along, these bands have a bit more clout when it comes to current fans and the number of purchases.

PJ tickets are double the price of a Muse or Radiohead ticket... why? why is this? It's quite simply that they can and will make a lot of money from an extremely devoted fan base.

First off it's stupid to compare radiohead and Pearl jam

Radiohead is an insanely popular band. Pearl Jam gave that up with no code and downshifted into a cult favorite.

I don't think really anyone outside the insanely dedicated fan base even knows they're still around, thus the target deal. The verizon thing is interesting. Is anyone sure they collected 1 red cent from Verizon? I think it was a way of staying relevant. U2 took a ton of grief over the U2 ipod. In reality, they did it for free latching on to the next big thing.

Ticket prices are another thing all together. I compare PJ prices to bloodsuckers like fleetwood mac, the Eagles and yes, our favorite anti corporate warrior uncle Neil Young. By comparison, they are inexpesive. Also I have a low 10c # my seats are always good and I know I would never get them if I weren't. If I were a 10c member stuck in the 400s, that 75.00 would probably seem pretty pricey.

I am sure you are no longer going to shows however because you want your protest to be noted and you wouldn't want to look like you were supporting sell outs like Pearl Jam.

concertaholicshirt

dunkman wrote:

concertaholicshirt wrote:

dunkman wrote:

Kings of Leon
Arcade Fire
Muse
Radiohead
Raconteurs

all of those bands were £30 or less.

It's beyond me how any of them with the possible exception of Radiohead, and that's a stretch, can be considered in the same league as Pearl Jam.

I never said they were... but in todays terms they are more culturally relevant and all of their current releases outsell Pearl Jam's current releases. So in terms of stature, which was the point all along, these bands have a bit more clout when it comes to current fans and the number of purchases.

I don't know that this is a valid analysis. For better or worse, many fans really don't give a shit about the latest release of older bands. I haven't heard anything 'relevant' from Rush since 1990, but I'll still go to a show and suffer through the newer songs to hear the classics I love. Same with KISS, U2, Aerosmith, etc., etc., etc. Now, there certainly are cores of die hard fans for these bands who love the last release as much as the first, but there are a ton of other fans who love the band with not much love for the latest stuff. I just don't know that the sales figures of the latest album is an accurate barometer of 'stature'. It certainly should be a piece of the equation, but it's not THE equation, IMO.

PJ tickets are double the price of a Muse or Radiohead ticket... why? why is this? It's quite simply that they can and will make a lot of money from an extremely devoted fan base.

And why shouldn't they? Not to mention that I stand by my assertion that they still are better than most, even if they're not the best. And, come on... I don't think the Radiohead fan base can compare. Like it or not... believe it or not, so much of this is decided by business issues. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I'd be surprised to find that Radiohead's prices weren't dictated by economic models about what price points will ensure the most sold out shows, and were solely due to Thom and the gang saying, "Ya' know... $30 a ticket is enough."

Haywood Yablomee

Eddieredder wrote:

JeffSide wrote:

Eddieredder wrote:

Does anyone else out there put up every single concert up for download?

Yes, Numerous bands...

Good for them. PJ bootlegs used to go for like $40-100 back in the 90s in my area. I have always thought it was a cool thing for them to do. $10 to dl a 2.5 hour show is a pretty good deal IMO. Pretty sure they could charge more if they wanted to .

Bootlegs in the mid 90's were $20 or $25 for single disc show and $40 or $50 for double disc. That was the going rate then. Its was the cheaper rate at the record conventions and the higher rate via Goldmine, Etc... I spent every dime I had on them in the early to mid 90's while in college. Not sure where you got $40 to $100 from...

dcfaithful

If we're truly going to debate about PJ selling out, wouldn't it be fair to note them folding in the fight against Ticketmaster? :?

It could be worse people. Eddie could be a surprise judge on American Idol or something...

Anyway, if a band "sells out" and you don't dig what they're doing...part ways and stop following them if it's such a big deal. If you want security in your favorite band/artist not selling out, then you'd be better off following Ian MacKaye.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

BUSH-lager wrote:

Is it as obvious to anyone else that no matter how many examples people give for the band, ummm, going against its perceived principles (I know you can't say sellout for some reason,) there are some people who will just blindly defend them to the death?

The poster bringing up Green Disease and Soon Forget makes a valid point. Just because you can point to worse corporate behavior like G-Sachs, doesn't excuse lesser offenses. Is a guy who robs a liquor store as bad as a rapist? Hell no, but that doesn't make him a model citizen either.

Not suggesting PJ is immoral or doing anything wrong, just saying that you can't defend their recent business practices against the way they did business in the 1990's by simply pointing to dispicable actions by others.

The band has changed. They are a part of the establishment now. The very one they once railed against. Call it selling out, gone against their priciples, evolved, changed with the times to survive, whatever you wanna call it, they a'int the same band they once were.

So can we please stop this ridiculous cult-like defense of Ed as if he's still the same against the establishment warrior that he was in 1994? It doesn't wear well on anyone. You've changed, I've changed, they've changed. The sooner this is acknowledged by the fan base, the sooner we can all move on as a happy Jamily. (Sorry, I had to, lol)

the behaviour I find even more ridiculous is people assuming just because we are defending the band, does not in any way mean we are Eddie Fanboys. We are just logical and unassuming of the band's business practices.

concertaholicshirt

breath123 wrote:

First off it's stupid to compare radiohead and Pearl jam

I agree... I've never had a lukewarm fan of Radiohead come up to me and say, "You HAVE to see them live. Was never a huge fan, but I saw them recently and they just BLEW ME AWAY!!!" I have had someone do that to me with PJ after a MSG show last year, which is why I finally got off my ass and saw them for the first time later in Philly. Yes... it's stupid to compare a live PJ show to a Radiohead show :P

Radiohead is an insanely popular band.

It's all subjective, but I don't know that I can agree with that. Coldplay is an insanely popular band. Radiohead has a very large VERY DEDICATED fanbase. However, I don't know that they're "and insanely popular band."

I compare PJ prices to bloodsuckers like fleetwood mac, the Eagles and yes, our favorite anti corporate warrior uncle Neil Young. By comparison, they are inexpesive.

EXTREMELY inexpensive, by comparison.