Illegal downloading made it so Pearl Jam couldn't just say fuck the videos and promotion and magazines..cause no one would buy their CD's or come to their shows and they would be irrelevant.
Bullshit. They sell just as many albums now as they did in 96. Touring is the way bands make money and that's how PJ has become filthy rich.
To weigh in on the sellout thing...... Who wouldn't do what they do for millions of $$$?? You're fuckin crazy if you say otherwise, but most people that would do it wouldn't spend a career pretending they hated, to quote Ed, "the haves".
Illegal downloading made it so Pearl Jam couldn't just say fuck the videos and promotion and magazines..cause no one would buy their CD's or come to their shows and they would be irrelevant.
Bullshit. They sell just as many albums now as they did in 96. Touring is the way bands make money and that's how PJ has become filthy rich.
To weigh in on the sellout thing...... Who wouldn't do what they do for millions of $$$?? You're fuckin crazy if you say otherwise, but most people that would do it wouldn't spend a career pretending they hated, to quote Ed, "the haves".
I definitely don't agree with all the sell out talk, but I do agree with part of what you said. I always wondered why the hell Ed insulted Bill Gates for being rich at some shows and wold even dedicate Soon Forget to him. It made me roll my eyes because we had one millionaire insulting someone else for being rich. Hypocrisy anyone?
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Illegal downloading made it so Pearl Jam couldn't just say fuck the videos and promotion and magazines..cause no one would buy their CD's or come to their shows and they would be irrelevant.
Bullshit. They sell just as many albums now as they did in 96. Touring is the way bands make money and that's how PJ has become filthy rich.
No Code sold over a million copies with NO PROMOTION and NO TOURING. Backspacer with Rock Band/Target/Videos etc. has yet to pass 500,000 after 6 months. No Code had that in the first 2 weeks. So I would say they NEED this stuff to stay relevant for sales, whereas in 1996 they didn't need to do it to hit a million.
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you're right...Pearl Jam did sell out......don't believe me?
go to the tickets section and click on Boston bitch!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :twisted: :twisted:
That is a quote straight from VH1 "Behind the Music" with Metallica When James Hetfield says " Ask me if we sold out, I say yes, every concert we perform"
Give credit where its due.
And by the way, how does everyone know that Eddie is filling his wine bottle with water? Thats bullshit if he is.
I had a friend who was there last night and she said it was awesome.
That said...
This kind of thing is no different than what they've been doing for the last 10 years.
A sad reality for many of you, but it is what it is.
"Pearl Jam" is a corporation in and of themselves.
I know many of you like to think as much, but PJ would not be doing what they are doing if they weren't getting paid millions of dollars. They do what they do really well, and that's why we are here. Sure, they "give back" more so than most bands, but still...
I often think how interesting it would be for me to hang out with my former self (say from 10 years ago).
I wonder what PJ would think if they hung out with their former selves.
'92 PJ: "You guys are a bunch of sellouts!"
'10 PJ: "You guys don't get it"
'92 PJ: "Really? Target?...$90 tickets? We charge $25!"
'10 PJ: "We're RICH BITCH!"
First off it's stupid to compare radiohead and Pearl jam
I agree... I've never had a lukewarm fan of Radiohead come up to me and say, "You HAVE to see them live. Was never a huge fan, but I saw them recently and they just BLEW ME AWAY!!!" I have had someone do that to me with PJ after a MSG show last year, which is why I finally got off my ass and saw them for the first time later in Philly. Yes... it's stupid to compare a live PJ show to a Radiohead show :P
Radiohead is an insanely popular band.
It's all subjective, but I don't know that I can agree with that. Coldplay is an insanely popular band. Radiohead has a very large VERY DEDICATED fanbase. However, I don't know that they're "and insanely popular band."
I compare PJ prices to bloodsuckers like fleetwood mac, the Eagles and yes, our favorite anti corporate warrior uncle Neil Young. By comparison, they are inexpesive.
EXTREMELY inexpensive, by comparison.
Radiohead sell out shows everywhere they go. They ARE hugely popular and are an amazing live act. While I prefer PJ, Radiohead are definitely the more talented musicians. Plus their stage set-up is more elaborate than PJs and yet maintains a certain classiness. They definitely could charge more for their tickets and sell just as much.
First off it's stupid to compare radiohead and Pearl jam
I agree... I've never had a lukewarm fan of Radiohead come up to me and say, "You HAVE to see them live. Was never a huge fan, but I saw them recently and they just BLEW ME AWAY!!!" I have had someone do that to me with PJ after a MSG show last year, which is why I finally got off my ass and saw them for the first time later in Philly. Yes... it's stupid to compare a live PJ show to a Radiohead show :P
Radiohead is an insanely popular band.
It's all subjective, but I don't know that I can agree with that. Coldplay is an insanely popular band. Radiohead has a very large VERY DEDICATED fanbase. However, I don't know that they're "and insanely popular band."
I compare PJ prices to bloodsuckers like fleetwood mac, the Eagles and yes, our favorite anti corporate warrior uncle Neil Young. By comparison, they are inexpesive.
EXTREMELY inexpensive, by comparison.
Radiohead sell out shows everywhere they go. They ARE hugely popular and are an amazing live act. While I prefer PJ, Radiohead are definitely the more talented musicians. Plus their stage set-up is more elaborate than PJs and yet maintains a certain classiness. They definitely could charge more for their tickets and sell just as much.
Ok...so what, they used TM in 98 to sell tickets to their shows. That was after an extremly long battle w/TM and multiple attempts at trying to find an alternative solution. At that point...they had no other option...and frankly still don't.
Is that your definition of "selling out"?
Dude...they could've done so much more than use TM to sell their concert tickets to ppl who opted to pay their money and see them perform.
They were destroying themselves because there wasn't an alternative to TM. They're a rock band, not a ticketing company. I don't think you're seeing the big picture, buddy.
And back on my comment in re: 95-98....Post Vitalogy...they could've taken a shit on a t shirt and sold it for 100 bucks and ppl would've bought it........They literally walked away from becoming as big as...say...U2.
It's beyond me....and a waste of time....why someone thinks this is a valid arguement "Sellouts". When Eddie's got a line of cologne out and Stone becomes a fashion designer, we'll talk then. Until that day, crack a book open and realize these guys are just doing what they do. If you don't like it, don't listen or participate....
Peace.
So you should have said 1995-1997.
Have fun at the shows. Hold up a "Satan's Bed" sign! And tell Ed to listen to the lyrics again.
I like reading what you have to say. It finally makes me feel smarter than somebody. Take your 30 troll posts and go to that 3 doors down show. I'm sure you're 40 years old, divorced, broke, and trying to find your way out of your parents home. Please don't take it out on this website.... You were probably fun to hang out with when you were 4.
I like reading what you have to say. It finally makes me feel smarter than somebody. Take your 30 troll posts and go to that 3 doors down show. I'm sure you're 40 years old, divorced, broke, and trying to find your way out of your parents home. Please don't take it out on this website.... You were probably fun to hang out with when you were 4.
"Parents' basement"? Really? REALLY?? :ugeek:
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St. Paul 2014
I like reading what you have to say. It finally makes me feel smarter than somebody. Take your 30 troll posts and go to that 3 doors down show. I'm sure you're 40 years old, divorced, broke, and trying to find your way out of your parents home. Please don't take it out on this website.... You were probably fun to hang out with when you were 4.
'92 PJ: "You guys are a bunch of sellouts!"
'10 PJ: "You guys don't get it"
'92 PJ: "Really? Target?...$90 tickets? We charge $25!"
'10 PJ: "We're RICH BITCH!"
i wonder if it would even be possible for them only charge what they used to charge... and still make enough money to not only pay for their staff, but for the bus ride home.
you guys do realise the cost of everything has gone up a freakish amount in the past decade or so right?
i mean, look at house prices (which I'm doing a lot of lately, trying to buy a fucking house). a house in wellington in 2002 might have been $180,000 or so. nowadays that same house will sell for $350,000. i'm going to go stand on the street and yell at the houses "YOU SOLD OUT MAN! FUCK YOU MAN! I'M TEARING ALL MY POSTERS OF YOU OFF THE WALLS AND BURNING THEM MAN!" and then burst into tears.
Illegal downloading made it so Pearl Jam couldn't just say fuck the videos and promotion and magazines..cause no one would buy their CD's or come to their shows and they would be irrelevant.
Bullshit. They sell just as many albums now as they did in 96. Touring is the way bands make money and that's how PJ has become filthy rich.
No Code sold over a million copies with NO PROMOTION and NO TOURING. Backspacer with Rock Band/Target/Videos etc. has yet to pass 500,000 after 6 months. No Code had that in the first 2 weeks. So I would say they NEED this stuff to stay relevant for sales, whereas in 1996 they didn't need to do it to hit a million.
Bands used to sell lots of records in those days. No one sells records anymore. Have you looked in on the Backspacer sales thread ? 500,000 is now a large number in the music industry. They are playing a very necessary game now. It's called "Adapt or Die".
And just so you and other people shouting 'sell out' on here know: it's now 2010. Not 1990, not 1993, not 1996, not 1998, not 2003 or any other year.
If they're are old and working for the money then how does Ed explain a song like "soon forget"? I thought it wasn't about the money in life......
Personally I don't care what they do, but part of the reason I love them is for what they stand for
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soon forget seems to be more about someone being ALL in for the money and loving nothing but money. counts his money every morning.. the only thing that keeps him horny...
pretty sure the guys are all in it for the love of their families, and making money to make their lives happy and easier is most likely driven by that love.
and if they get to buy a brand new calculator watch in the proceed and have some fun holidays and wear fancy suits to the rnr hof inductions then good on them. i used to buy a bunch of crap with my fortnightly pay packet. it was fun.
soon forget seems to be more about someone being ALL in for the money and loving nothing but money. counts his money every morning.. the only thing that keeps him horny...
pretty sure the guys are all in it for the love of their families, and making money to make their lives happy and easier is most likely driven by that love.
and if they get to buy a brand new calculator watch in the proceed and have some fun holidays and wear fancy suits to the rnr hof inductions then good on them. i used to buy a bunch of crap with my fortnightly pay packet. it was fun.
Ok, but them faulting someone for making lots of money seems a little hypocritical if their goal is now to make the most money they can by pimping for Target.
Maybe they just want their music heard by millions...?? Can't blame em for that.
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I have no problem with the Target deal. I never did. This discussion was about them flying to MN to play a 3 song set for Target employees. People say this band loves their fans but obviously they love Target employees more becuase they aren't playing shows in most of the country.
Now THAT is a great point. They ignore huge chunks of the country, but obviously go out of their way (it's not like the Target convention was in NYC on Sunday after they were on SNL) for "the man" (if that's what you wanna call it).
People complain about $80 tickets, but maybe it's because they have to pay for tickets AND plane tickets/hotels because this band refuses to come anywhere near them for years at a time. Maybe.
And will people please stop saying Backspacer is an independent release? REALLY? (to quote Weekend Update) Target is an indie record store? Really?!Was Chinese Democracy an independent release? Was The Eagles last album an independent release?
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i don't think they fault anyone for making money. they wouldn't have many friends in their own industry if they did and would have to hate each other.
you cannot say pearl jam are in it for money and money alone.
I'm not saying they do it for money. Others are saying they did the Target thing to make cash because they are older with families etc....
I'm saying, if that's true, then it makes me sad because I've always loved them because of what they stood for (in addition to good tunes)
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I love you guys and your passion... what can I say? I disagree with the sell out talk (and I am an early '90's fan, spin me round, roll me over).
Hmmm...
Critical of Pearl Jam "selling out"? Yeah? What is your occupation? On your back, where is your shirt made... shoes on your feet... food grown? Using a computer... operating sys? Lynux perhaps? You must be a total non-sell out, good for you! Mutual fund? Stock market? Where is your money and what it is doing? Better make sure it isn't in Target or a parent group... call somebody...
In '93 when we thought they *weren't* sell outs they were on a sony/epic label selling tix for $18... according to Fugazi fans (buying tix @$5-8) the Pearl Jam people were sell outs all the way to Reno and back.
All I am asking is... "what is your def. of a sell out?" Cause over time it changes, and seem to be relative... in '98 it was when they did the DTE vid and played it on MTV... used ticketbastard for the tour and so on.
I say if you don't like PJ's politics in terms of "selling out"... then *find* a band, a small local band you can get behind... there are plenty of awesome bands out there.
But, be prepared to jump ship if they become popular and promote themselves...
I love you guys and your passion... what can I say? I disagree with the sell out talk (and I am an early '90's fan, spin me round, roll me over).
Hmmm...
Critical of Pearl Jam "selling out"? Yeah? What is your occupation? On your back, where is your shirt made... shoes on your feet... food grown? Using a computer... operating sys? Lynux perhaps? You must be a total non-sell out, good for you! Mutual fund? Stock market? Where is your money and what it is doing? Better make sure it isn't in Target or a parent group... call somebody...
In '93 when we thought they *weren't* sell outs they were on a sony/epic label selling tix for $18... according to Fugazi fans (buying tix @$5-8) the Pearl Jam people were sell outs all the way to Reno and back.
All I am asking is... "what is your def. of a sell out?" Cause over time it changes, and seem to be relative... in '98 it was when they did the DTE vid and played it on MTV... used ticketbastard for the tour and so on.
I say if you don't like PJ's politics in terms of "selling out"... then *find* a band, a small local band you can get behind... there are plenty of awesome bands out there.
But, be prepared to jump ship if they become popular and promote themselves...
Well put, but I think people will cut the band some slack if they could see the logic or justification behind it. Going back to ticketmaster? It was a valiant fight, and a fight that they conceded when no other band would back them. The downside of not using ticketmaster would be to not play any major venue in the US. Ok. People could see the logic behind that easily. No one should call them out for that. Increase ticket prices? Ok, maybe a little steep for some, but changing times, changing expenses, it seems like a lot of people understand it.
Distributing Backspacer through Target? Eh, it's very divisive still but when people understood that indie stores got to sell it and they were making $5 on every album sold in an age where most people steal music, I think a lot of people forgave.
But flying to Minnesota to play for suits on the same ticket as the Jonas Bros? Not too many people can see the logic behind doing that other than the financial side. Any other "compromise" could generally be seen as for the benefit of the music, the fans, necessary evils in the long run. This is just weird... I swear, if Eddie every received a Grammy today, he'd probably stand tall and "thank the Academy." It just makes people wonder if this is the same band they've been following most of their lives, and while they could do whatever the fuck they want to as long as it doesn't change the music or screw the fans, some of these things make me scratch my head.
It just makes people wonder if this is the same band they've been following most of their lives, and while they could do whatever the fuck they want to as long as it doesn't change the music or screw the fans, some of these things make me scratch my head.
'92 PJ: "You guys are a bunch of sellouts!"
'10 PJ: "You guys don't get it"
'92 PJ: "Really? Target?...$90 tickets? We charge $25!"
'10 PJ: "We're RICH BITCH!"
i wonder if it would even be possible for them only charge what they used to charge... and still make enough money to not only pay for their staff, but for the bus ride home.
you guys do realise the cost of everything has gone up a freakish amount in the past decade or so right?
i mean, look at house prices (which I'm doing a lot of lately, trying to buy a fucking house). a house in wellington in 2002 might have been $180,000 or so. nowadays that same house will sell for $350,000. i'm going to go stand on the street and yell at the houses "YOU SOLD OUT MAN! FUCK YOU MAN! I'M TEARING ALL MY POSTERS OF YOU OFF THE WALLS AND BURNING THEM MAN!" and then burst into tears.
I seriously hope all of you negative nancys decide not to renew your memberships...it'll put me closer to the stage and I wont have to stand next to any of you
"Well, I think this band is incapable of sucking."
-my dad after hearing Not for You for the first time on SNL .
Comments
Bullshit. They sell just as many albums now as they did in 96. Touring is the way bands make money and that's how PJ has become filthy rich.
To weigh in on the sellout thing...... Who wouldn't do what they do for millions of $$$?? You're fuckin crazy if you say otherwise, but most people that would do it wouldn't spend a career pretending they hated, to quote Ed, "the haves".
I definitely don't agree with all the sell out talk, but I do agree with part of what you said. I always wondered why the hell Ed insulted Bill Gates for being rich at some shows and wold even dedicate Soon Forget to him. It made me roll my eyes because we had one millionaire insulting someone else for being rich. Hypocrisy anyone?
Bullshit. They sell just as many albums now as they did in 96. Touring is the way bands make money and that's how PJ has become filthy rich.
No Code sold over a million copies with NO PROMOTION and NO TOURING. Backspacer with Rock Band/Target/Videos etc. has yet to pass 500,000 after 6 months. No Code had that in the first 2 weeks. So I would say they NEED this stuff to stay relevant for sales, whereas in 1996 they didn't need to do it to hit a million.
Give credit where its due.
And by the way, how does everyone know that Eddie is filling his wine bottle with water? Thats bullshit if he is.
soooo appropriate. i bet it was a real beautiful moment.
i'm also glad they made a pile of cash off target and that target gives back
walmart is the devil. target isn't even a close 2nd
That said...
This kind of thing is no different than what they've been doing for the last 10 years.
A sad reality for many of you, but it is what it is.
"Pearl Jam" is a corporation in and of themselves.
I know many of you like to think as much, but PJ would not be doing what they are doing if they weren't getting paid millions of dollars. They do what they do really well, and that's why we are here. Sure, they "give back" more so than most bands, but still...
I often think how interesting it would be for me to hang out with my former self (say from 10 years ago).
I wonder what PJ would think if they hung out with their former selves.
'92 PJ: "You guys are a bunch of sellouts!"
'10 PJ: "You guys don't get it"
'92 PJ: "Really? Target?...$90 tickets? We charge $25!"
'10 PJ: "We're RICH BITCH!"
Radiohead sell out shows everywhere they go. They ARE hugely popular and are an amazing live act. While I prefer PJ, Radiohead are definitely the more talented musicians. Plus their stage set-up is more elaborate than PJs and yet maintains a certain classiness. They definitely could charge more for their tickets and sell just as much.
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/jmgphotos/4731512142/" title="PJ Banner2 by Mister J Photography, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1135/4731512142_258f2d6ab4_b.jpg" width="630" height="112" alt="PJ Banner2" /></a>
Lets not be silly now... it's late, I know...
you are sitting there on your high horse telling PJ what they morally can and cannot do with their own band, their own lives, their own money.
WHO THE FUCK DO YOU PEOPLE THINK YOU ARE?
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Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
"Parents' basement"? Really? REALLY?? :ugeek:
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I am going back to my Guiness.
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Austin (10-4-09), Philadelphia (10-28-09, 10-30-09, 10-31-09)
i wonder if it would even be possible for them only charge what they used to charge... and still make enough money to not only pay for their staff, but for the bus ride home.
you guys do realise the cost of everything has gone up a freakish amount in the past decade or so right?
i mean, look at house prices (which I'm doing a lot of lately, trying to buy a fucking house). a house in wellington in 2002 might have been $180,000 or so. nowadays that same house will sell for $350,000. i'm going to go stand on the street and yell at the houses "YOU SOLD OUT MAN! FUCK YOU MAN! I'M TEARING ALL MY POSTERS OF YOU OFF THE WALLS AND BURNING THEM MAN!" and then burst into tears.
Bands used to sell lots of records in those days. No one sells records anymore. Have you looked in on the Backspacer sales thread ? 500,000 is now a large number in the music industry. They are playing a very necessary game now. It's called "Adapt or Die".
And just so you and other people shouting 'sell out' on here know: it's now 2010. Not 1990, not 1993, not 1996, not 1998, not 2003 or any other year.
It's 2010. Look it up.
Personally I don't care what they do, but part of the reason I love them is for what they stand for
pretty sure the guys are all in it for the love of their families, and making money to make their lives happy and easier is most likely driven by that love.
and if they get to buy a brand new calculator watch in the proceed and have some fun holidays and wear fancy suits to the rnr hof inductions then good on them. i used to buy a bunch of crap with my fortnightly pay packet. it was fun.
Ok, but them faulting someone for making lots of money seems a little hypocritical if their goal is now to make the most money they can by pimping for Target.
Maybe they just want their music heard by millions...?? Can't blame em for that.
you cannot say pearl jam are in it for money and money alone.
Now THAT is a great point. They ignore huge chunks of the country, but obviously go out of their way (it's not like the Target convention was in NYC on Sunday after they were on SNL) for "the man" (if that's what you wanna call it).
People complain about $80 tickets, but maybe it's because they have to pay for tickets AND plane tickets/hotels because this band refuses to come anywhere near them for years at a time. Maybe.
And will people please stop saying Backspacer is an independent release? REALLY? (to quote Weekend Update) Target is an indie record store? Really?!Was Chinese Democracy an independent release? Was The Eagles last album an independent release?
New Mexico Pearl Jam Fans (New Mexico, USA) on Facebook!
I'm not saying they do it for money. Others are saying they did the Target thing to make cash because they are older with families etc....
I'm saying, if that's true, then it makes me sad because I've always loved them because of what they stood for (in addition to good tunes)
(Jeff Tweedy, Sydney 2007)
“Put yer good money on the sunrise”
(Tim Rogers)
Hmmm...
Critical of Pearl Jam "selling out"? Yeah? What is your occupation? On your back, where is your shirt made... shoes on your feet... food grown? Using a computer... operating sys? Lynux perhaps? You must be a total non-sell out, good for you! Mutual fund? Stock market? Where is your money and what it is doing? Better make sure it isn't in Target or a parent group... call somebody...
In '93 when we thought they *weren't* sell outs they were on a sony/epic label selling tix for $18... according to Fugazi fans (buying tix @$5-8) the Pearl Jam people were sell outs all the way to Reno and back.
All I am asking is... "what is your def. of a sell out?" Cause over time it changes, and seem to be relative... in '98 it was when they did the DTE vid and played it on MTV... used ticketbastard for the tour and so on.
I say if you don't like PJ's politics in terms of "selling out"... then *find* a band, a small local band you can get behind... there are plenty of awesome bands out there.
But, be prepared to jump ship if they become popular and promote themselves...
Well put, but I think people will cut the band some slack if they could see the logic or justification behind it. Going back to ticketmaster? It was a valiant fight, and a fight that they conceded when no other band would back them. The downside of not using ticketmaster would be to not play any major venue in the US. Ok. People could see the logic behind that easily. No one should call them out for that. Increase ticket prices? Ok, maybe a little steep for some, but changing times, changing expenses, it seems like a lot of people understand it.
Distributing Backspacer through Target? Eh, it's very divisive still but when people understood that indie stores got to sell it and they were making $5 on every album sold in an age where most people steal music, I think a lot of people forgave.
But flying to Minnesota to play for suits on the same ticket as the Jonas Bros? Not too many people can see the logic behind doing that other than the financial side. Any other "compromise" could generally be seen as for the benefit of the music, the fans, necessary evils in the long run. This is just weird... I swear, if Eddie every received a Grammy today, he'd probably stand tall and "thank the Academy." It just makes people wonder if this is the same band they've been following most of their lives, and while they could do whatever the fuck they want to as long as it doesn't change the music or screw the fans, some of these things make me scratch my head.
3 Decibels Doubles the Volume
2006
:roll: Yeah its so confusing... :roll:
-my dad after hearing Not for You for the first time on SNL .