i don't really give a fuck if they play with those people, or that they play a corporate gig.. i couldnt give a fuck... but what really really pisses me off is that this is done by a guy who wrote the lyrics to Green Disease and to Soon Forget... he's spent the last 15-20 trying to tell us to stick it to the 'man'.. and yet here they are kowtowing to the man... again i'm not bothered that they do that, go for it... make as much money as you possibly can as quickly as you can... but don't try and preach to those who might listen that trying to make a lot of money is a bad thing and that kowtowing to big business is a bad thing when you're doing it yourself.
That's one more time around and there is not a sound.
He's lying dead clutching Benjamins. Never put the money down.
He's stiffening. We're all whistling a man we'll soon forget.
OMG SHUT UP! Take this "take it to the man" rage and point it where it belongs. Goldman Sachs, that is what Green Disease is about. Id like to see the song where ed says everyone should be fucking poor and shit in their pants. Ed signed a deal with Sony back in '90, Ed has never had a problem with making money for his craft. Ed had a problem with corporations and individuals who profit at the expense of the less fortunate. Something everyone should have a problem with. Besides people's nerves on MSG ticket sales (Santos is the man!) where is Ten Club LLC taking advantage of others to make their wallets bigger? Seriously though how rich do you really think they are? You act like they are committing a crime when Goldman is going to sink the planet. Get a clue buddy, Pearl Jam are a great band, they worked hard for it, they deserve some recognition for it.
End of debate. Well said man!
+1. Very well said.
The "sell out" accusation is such a joke. I'm not working for free, neither are you, why should they? If you don't like it find another band. There are a-plenty to choose from.
Come on. No one is asking Pearl Jam to work for free. It's a matter of integrity. It's a matter of the fact they haven't played a proper gig in MN in what, 12 years? And I even throw in the matter of what's their carbon footprint anyway, doing their wonky ass "tours" and mind-boggling one-off shows? Not one person here has said Pearl Jam doesn't have a right to earn a living.
i don't really give a fuck if they play with those people, or that they play a corporate gig.. i couldnt give a fuck... but what really really pisses me off is that this is done by a guy who wrote the lyrics to Green Disease and to Soon Forget... he's spent the last 15-20 trying to tell us to stick it to the 'man'.. and yet here they are kowtowing to the man... again i'm not bothered that they do that, go for it... make as much money as you possibly can as quickly as you can... but don't try and preach to those who might listen that trying to make a lot of money is a bad thing and that kowtowing to big business is a bad thing when you're doing it yourself.
That's one more time around and there is not a sound.
He's lying dead clutching Benjamins. Never put the money down.
He's stiffening. We're all whistling a man we'll soon forget.
OMG SHUT UP! Take this "take it to the man" rage and point it where it belongs. Goldman Sachs, that is what Green Disease is about. Id like to see the song where ed says everyone should be fucking poor and shit in their pants. Ed signed a deal with Sony back in '90, Ed has never had a problem with making money for his craft. Ed had a problem with corporations and individuals who profit at the expense of the less fortunate. Something everyone should have a problem with. Besides people's nerves on MSG ticket sales (Santos is the man!) where is Ten Club LLC taking advantage of others to make their wallets bigger? Seriously though how rich do you really think they are? You act like they are committing a crime when Goldman is going to sink the planet. Get a clue buddy, Pearl Jam are a great band, they worked hard for it, they deserve some recognition for it. Get lost if you have this big of an ideology difference with the band... bye!
'91 called they want their flannels back dude...
you clearly have no idea of my legendary disdain for the flannel and wearing 9 pairs of shorts at once look from back in 1991... fuck me, Ten is my least favourite album... I like corporations, i would use Goldman Sachs for my investments if i was a super rich fucker... why? because they are good at what they do, they make shitloads of money... i would drink a Starbucks and not give 1 nanosecond of thought about how it was a super conglomerate business, i dont give a fuck... what i do give a fuck about is listening to hypocritical rock stars telling me about how bad things are for the poor little people and stop using this gas company and hey buy my friends cartoons as he's kinda struggling... i do give a fuck about how a band seems to care for the poor guy from Detroit who has lost his job and in the meantime they raise their ticket prices up so that they are twice the price of a Muse ticket...
i don't like Chris Martin from Coldplay preaching to me to buy Fair Trade goods, i'll buy what i want... I don't need that man telling me what to buy when I know he has a £9000 watch on... probably encrusted with gems mined in Nigeria by some little 9 year old boy who will die of sulphur poisoning next week.
I dont like Bono saying to me "every time I click my fingers a child in Africa dies"... he could buy Africa... at the very least he should stop clicking his fucking fingers and killing children.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
The "sell out" accusation is such a joke. I'm not working for free, neither are you, why should they? If you don't like it find another band. There are a-plenty to choose from.
who is saying that? can't you people read?
glad to see the old "if you don't like it find another band" nugget of wisdom coming out... it's up there in the top 10 lines of things 5 year old would say in an argument... right behind "it's my ball and you're not playing" which is number 1.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
Is it as obvious to anyone else that no matter how many examples people give for the band, ummm, going against its perceived principles (I know you can't say sellout for some reason,) there are some people who will just blindly defend them to the death?
The poster bringing up Green Disease and Soon Forget makes a valid point. Just because you can point to worse corporate behavior like G-Sachs, doesn't excuse lesser offenses. Is a guy who robs a liquor store as bad as a rapist? Hell no, but that doesn't make him a model citizen either.
Not suggesting PJ is immoral or doing anything wrong, just saying that you can't defend their recent business practices against the way they did business in the 1990's by simply pointing to dispicable actions by others.
The band has changed. They are a part of the establishment now. The very one they once railed against. Call it selling out, gone against their priciples, evolved, changed with the times to survive, whatever you wanna call it, they a'int the same band they once were.
So can we please stop this ridiculous cult-like defense of Ed as if he's still the same against the establishment warrior that he was in 1994? It doesn't wear well on anyone. You've changed, I've changed, they've changed. The sooner this is acknowledged by the fan base, the sooner we can all move on as a happy Jamily. (Sorry, I had to, lol)
The "sell out" accusation is such a joke. I'm not working for free, neither are you, why should they? If you don't like it find another band. There are a-plenty to choose from.
who is saying that? can't you people read?
glad to see the old "if you don't like it find another band" nugget of wisdom coming out... it's up there in the top 10 lines of things 5 year old would say in an argument... right behind "it's my ball and you're not playing" which is number 1.
I will admit, I have not read through every page of this debate, but when people get up in arms about them playing three songs for Target -- a company they partnered with to sell a record the band self-released rather than go through a record company -- I have to laugh. Why shouldn't they have played the show? Why should it bother the posters on this board? I'm sure they were compensated nicely for it and good for them! I get paid, so should they.
I do think many defenses of this band are blind, but when this topic comes -- and it does, all the fucking time it seems -- just as many of the attacks are just as blind.
If what they have done makes them sell-outs, and if that is too much for you to bare, then yes, move on to another band.
I do think many defenses of this band are blind, but when this topic comes -- and it does, all the fucking time it seems -- just as many of the attacks are just as blind.
If what they have done makes them sell-outs, and if that is too much for you to bare, then yes, move on to another band.
Completely agree. Some people just love to complain. But just as many people have this absurd need to cling to where the band was 15 years ago. Pearl Jam is a long, long way from the anti-video, limited promotion, war-against-ticketmaster band we all fell in love with back in the heyday.
If that's too much for you to deal with, then maybe you should move on. I prefer to accept it so long as the music is still blissful to my ears. And it is. = )
Now if only they could fix this fan club of theirs....
Geez there's so much negativity on these forums I'm shocked it's the fanclub. Seriously, does anyone have anything good to say? Oh, I do, Pearl Jam rocks and I can't wait to see the shows. Just be happy, live life, and stop complaining already! Just thought that needed to be said. Hope everyone has a great St. Patrick's day! ; )
Geez there's so much negativity on these forums I'm shocked it's the fanclub. Seriously, does anyone have anything good to say? Oh, I do, Pearl Jam rocks and I can't wait to see the shows. Just be happy, live life, and stop complaining already! Just thought that needed to be said. Hope everyone has a great St. Patrick's day! ; )
x10
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
The "sell out" accusation is such a joke. I'm not working for free, neither are you, why should they? If you don't like it find another band. There are a-plenty to choose from.
who is saying that? can't you people read?
glad to see the old "if you don't like it find another band" nugget of wisdom coming out... it's up there in the top 10 lines of things 5 year old would say in an argument... right behind "it's my ball and you're not playing" which is number 1.
I will admit, I have not read through every page of this debate, but when people get up in arms about them playing three songs for Target -- a company they partnered with to sell a record the band self-released rather than go through a record company -- I have to laugh. Why shouldn't they have played the show? Why should it bother the posters on this board? I'm sure they were compensated nicely for it and good for them! I get paid, so should they.
I do think many defenses of this band are blind, but when this topic comes -- and it does, all the fucking time it seems -- just as many of the attacks are just as blind.
If what they have done makes them sell-outs, and if that is too much for you to bare, then yes, move on to another band.
why do you keep referring to my posts about the sell-out aspect of this? I don't care if they have 'sold out' or whatever phrase people use... i'm just not a fan of hypocrisy. PJ playing corporate gigs, TV ads, music on TV channels and all that is genuinely fine by me if the band acknowledge that fact and don't try and preach to us about big business and corporations ruling the day...
i repeat, i have no issue with them playing gigs like this, no problems with Saturday Night tv appearances, couldnt give a fuck about them making videos, rock band, whatever... the list goes on... what is really fucking annoying, and especially over the last few days its more apparent is that people think 10club and PJ can literally do no wrong...
i keep getting told "oh its a business dude" or "they are not a charity" etc etc etc... but so is my hairdresser.. but if she started charging me twice what she charged me 5 years ago and then on top of that started charging me a credit transaction fee every time i went i would be entitled to say to her "hey, what the fuck is going on with the costs?"
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
why do you keep referring to my posts about the sell-out aspect of this? I don't care if they have 'sold out' or whatever phrase people use... i'm just not a fan of hypocrisy. PJ playing corporate gigs, TV ads, music on TV channels and all that is genuinely fine by me if the band acknowledge that fact and don't try and preach to us about big business and corporations ruling the day...
i repeat, i have no issue with them playing gigs like this, no problems with Saturday Night tv appearances, couldnt give a fuck about them making videos, rock band, whatever... the list goes on... what is really fucking annoying, and especially over the last few days its more apparent is that people think 10club and PJ can literally do no wrong...
i keep getting told "oh its a business dude" or "they are not a charity" etc etc etc... but so is my hairdresser.. but if she started charging me twice what she charged me 5 years ago and then on top of that started charging me a credit transaction fee every time i went i would be entitled to say to her "hey, what the fuck is going on with the costs?"
What concerns me about this, is that you have a hairdresser.
why do you keep referring to my posts about the sell-out aspect of this? I don't care if they have 'sold out' or whatever phrase people use... i'm just not a fan of hypocrisy. PJ playing corporate gigs, TV ads, music on TV channels and all that is genuinely fine by me if the band acknowledge that fact and don't try and preach to us about big business and corporations ruling the day...
i repeat, i have no issue with them playing gigs like this, no problems with Saturday Night tv appearances, couldnt give a fuck about them making videos, rock band, whatever... the list goes on... what is really fucking annoying, and especially over the last few days its more apparent is that people think 10club and PJ can literally do no wrong...
i keep getting told "oh its a business dude" or "they are not a charity" etc etc etc... but so is my hairdresser.. but if she started charging me twice what she charged me 5 years ago and then on top of that started charging me a credit transaction fee every time i went i would be entitled to say to her "hey, what the fuck is going on with the costs?"
What concerns me about this, is that you have a hairdresser.
do you blame me?
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
glad to see the old "if you don't like it find another band" nugget of wisdom coming out... it's up there in the top 10 lines of things 5 year old would say in an argument... right behind "it's my ball and you're not playing" which is number 1.
I will admit, I have not read through every page of this debate, but when people get up in arms about them playing three songs for Target -- a company they partnered with to sell a record the band self-released rather than go through a record company -- I have to laugh. Why shouldn't they have played the show? Why should it bother the posters on this board? I'm sure they were compensated nicely for it and good for them! I get paid, so should they.
I do think many defenses of this band are blind, but when this topic comes -- and it does, all the fucking time it seems -- just as many of the attacks are just as blind.
If what they have done makes them sell-outs, and if that is too much for you to bare, then yes, move on to another band.
why do you keep referring to my posts about the sell-out aspect of this? I don't care if they have 'sold out' or whatever phrase people use... i'm just not a fan of hypocrisy. PJ playing corporate gigs, TV ads, music on TV channels and all that is genuinely fine by me if the band acknowledge that fact and don't try and preach to us about big business and corporations ruling the day...
i repeat, i have no issue with them playing gigs like this, no problems with Saturday Night tv appearances, couldnt give a fuck about them making videos, rock band, whatever... the list goes on... what is really fucking annoying, and especially over the last few days its more apparent is that people think 10club and PJ can literally do no wrong...
i keep getting told "oh its a business dude" or "they are not a charity" etc etc etc... but so is my hairdresser.. but if she started charging me twice what she charged me 5 years ago and then on top of that started charging me a credit transaction fee every time i went i would be entitled to say to her "hey, what the fuck is going on with the costs?"
Because I had no intention of referring to your posts at all when I originally posted. My point was to praise what Solarworld said very well, and to give my own two cents on the topic at hand --which, unfortunately, is yet another "debate about the band selling out. You quoted me and so I responded. If you don't think the band has sold out then don't feel you need to debate me any longer.
why do you keep referring to my posts about the sell-out aspect of this? I don't care if they have 'sold out' or whatever phrase people use... i'm just not a fan of hypocrisy. PJ playing corporate gigs, TV ads, music on TV channels and all that is genuinely fine by me if the band acknowledge that fact and don't try and preach to us about big business and corporations ruling the day...
i repeat, i have no issue with them playing gigs like this, no problems with Saturday Night tv appearances, couldnt give a fuck about them making videos, rock band, whatever... the list goes on... what is really fucking annoying, and especially over the last few days its more apparent is that people think 10club and PJ can literally do no wrong...
i keep getting told "oh its a business dude" or "they are not a charity" etc etc etc... but so is my hairdresser.. but if she started charging me twice what she charged me 5 years ago and then on top of that started charging me a credit transaction fee every time i went i would be entitled to say to her "hey, what the fuck is going on with the costs?"
What concerns me about this, is that you have a hairdresser.
do you blame me?
And if that is what your hairdresser looks like then no, I don't blame you at all.
why do you keep referring to my posts about the sell-out aspect of this? I don't care if they have 'sold out' or whatever phrase people use... i'm just not a fan of hypocrisy. PJ playing corporate gigs, TV ads, music on TV channels and all that is genuinely fine by me if the band acknowledge that fact and don't try and preach to us about big business and corporations ruling the day...
i repeat, i have no issue with them playing gigs like this, no problems with Saturday Night tv appearances, couldnt give a fuck about them making videos, rock band, whatever... the list goes on... what is really fucking annoying, and especially over the last few days its more apparent is that people think 10club and PJ can literally do no wrong...
i keep getting told "oh its a business dude" or "they are not a charity" etc etc etc... but so is my hairdresser.. but if she started charging me twice what she charged me 5 years ago and then on top of that started charging me a credit transaction fee every time i went i would be entitled to say to her "hey, what the fuck is going on with the costs?"
What concerns me about this, is that you have a hairdresser.
do you blame me?
is she cutting your scalp ?
i post on the board of a band that doesn't exsist anymore .......i need my head examined.......
i bet ed still used the word FUCK when singing porch. take that you coorperate fuckers.
if they did an version, then maybe they have "sold out"
--
really............ who gives a shit? i still like their music and that is what matters most at the end of the day.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
all i know is what he's said about a million and one times at shows. the proof is right there. covering up corporate banners, talking shit about the people in the skyboxes, etc etc etc. just admit it. i doesnt destroy my love for the music, because i dont give a shit what their stances are anyway, but the fact is they sold out by their OWN standards.
they really dont NEED Target, and no, they wouldnt go broke in a year. that is fucking crazy. do you follow any other bands?
and the only thing they owe me personally is the twenty bucks i paid for Avocado. for the rest were even!
ok, so they would have to suck up the cost of promotion, distribution, etc etc, and you think they can afford to do all that and then tour with no promotion behind it and still be in the black? I'm glad you aren't my accountant. You honestly believe they are all billionaires in huge mansions with Bunny Lebowski's sitting by their pools?
Do I follow any other bands? WTF kind of question is that? No, I listen to MB demos when I wake up, continue with No Code with my Alphagetti at wunchtime, and finish the night off with a nice nightcap of ITW. Gimme a break.
:roll:
Look, standards and situations change. They were against "the man" when that particular man was doing harm to the people. they obviously feel that Target is a decent enough organization to do business with. Why is that so difficult to grasp??
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
i bet ed still used the word FUCK when singing porch. take that you coorperate fuckers.
if they did an version, then maybe they have "sold out"
--
really............ who gives a shit? i still like their music and that is what matters most at the end of the day.
then I guess that means they sold out by doing MTV Unplugged and censoring himself!
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
the music industry has changed, folks. bands need to do different things now in order to make money, which includes signing deals with chains like Target in order to have creative license.
The extent to which people put this band on an unreachable pedestal only sets them up for failure.
dream the dreams of other men...you will be no one's rival
why do you keep referring to my posts about the sell-out aspect of this? I don't care if they have 'sold out' or whatever phrase people use... i'm just not a fan of hypocrisy. PJ playing corporate gigs, TV ads, music on TV channels and all that is genuinely fine by me if the band acknowledge that fact and don't try and preach to us about big business and corporations ruling the day...
i repeat, i have no issue with them playing gigs like this, no problems with Saturday Night tv appearances, couldnt give a fuck about them making videos, rock band, whatever... the list goes on... what is really fucking annoying, and especially over the last few days its more apparent is that people think 10club and PJ can literally do no wrong...
i keep getting told "oh its a business dude" or "they are not a charity" etc etc etc... but so is my hairdresser.. but if she started charging me twice what she charged me 5 years ago and then on top of that started charging me a credit transaction fee every time i went i would be entitled to say to her "hey, what the fuck is going on with the costs?"
What concerns me about this, is that you have a hairdresser.
I, like some of you am annoyed more by the fact that they can go out of their way to play this show but have ignored most of the country for the last 7 years. For me it wasn't always just about the music but it has become that way lately.
Over the last 20 years I've grown up, gotten married, had a kid, made money but one thing that hasnt changed are my morals, values and ideals.
I swear some of you don't listen to any other bands. There are plenty of groups that make a great living without doing shit like this.
This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
these guys just donated $200,000 to Haiti..........I didn't see any posts about that.
When your rich and famous... That's what you do.
It's a tax write-off.
To quote an astute poster here, you're kind of an ass, aren't you? Assuming that the boys pay somewhere in the neighborhood of 40% in income taxes, well... that's the only 'break' they're getting... that's still a $120K out of their pockets. Yeah... just some rich boys gettin' over on the ole tax breaks :roll: :roll: :roll:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
All of that said... screw all ya'll MoFos... Buble is da' shizzle :twisted:
Couldnt agree more
I hate the term sell outs. They are sell outs, every fucking show. They are doing this for a living. The only people who can call someone else a sell out are those that are living on the street by choice and have given everything they have ever begged for away to someone else.
And for those who don't know TARGET is the most CHARITABLE CORPORATION IN THE WORLD. They give away millions of dollars IN CASH every year and have for as long as they have been profitable.
And before you come with the tired "doing it for tax breaks" stupid ass argument let me say this, the only people who say rich people only give to charity for the tax breaks have no money to give away. Couldn't it be that some people just give away a percentage of their income, no matter what it is, to charities? Go fuck yourselves and get back to listening to shitty bands and pretending to like them just in case they get popular.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Umm...You act like this is the first time Pearl Jam has shared the bill with shitty acts.
You know, It's funny that this word "Sellout" gets thrown around so much.
What's even funnier is that it's thrown around by a bunch of clowns who have no idea what or where to correctly apply this term.
Making money and playing shows do not make someone a sell out.
Besides...I don't know what sacred idealistic pipe dream planet some of you waterheads come from, but last time I checked Pearl Jam hasn't been an indie band since about 1990.
They have a VERY LARGE fanbase and are VERY VERY RICH because they have sold MANY MANY RECORDS.
Their last record was their best selling album in years...
Backspacer is quickly approaching the 500,000 mark which will make it one of the biggest selling independent albums ever.
This partly due in thanks to Target. So forgive the band if this is their way of saying thank you.
What you fail to realize is that the climate has changed for musicians these days. Record companies have crumbled and traditional methods of getting your record out to the public have changed so dramatically in the last 10 years that bands like Pearl Jam -As rich and successful as they are- to seek out other deals with companies such as Target just to exsist and stay relevant.
1) I still don't see them selling their songs to commercials...unlike some of your sacred bullet proof Indie band flavors of the month who are selling their songs to commercials jleft right and centre.
2) They're not jumping on the Monopoly Gravy Train called "Live Nation" like U2, Madonna...ect, ect, ect signing for multi million dollar contracts and losing control over their music and merchandising
3) Their tickets are still cheaper than any band of their stature.
If you just pull your heads out of your snooty asses for a minute and realize that there are many ways in which this band could be robbing, stealing, and screwing you sideways right now.
But they've chosen not to, and have fought for us at every corner despite a music industry that is very different now than what it was then....and changing more and more by the minute.
Sure they've had to make some compromises, but I truly believe that they still care very deaply for the music fan and us 10 club assholes despite our short sighted dingbat theories on how playing a private shows for Target, or doing TV shows and interviews, or making an effort to promote your music is some how some kind of sell out move.
This term should have died in the 1990's because it no longer makes sense today.
I'm thankful that this band is still relevant after all these years.
They can play where ever the fuck they want...I'm just glad that my favorite band is still around and that more and more people are getting exposed to them.
The world can only be a better place with more Pearl Jam...So bring it on.
So exactly what prevents them from doing what Radiohead did with "In Rainbows"? That's the model PJ should follow and that's a band that has managed to keep their dignity fully intact. I doubt any of their children are goin hungry either.
Radiohead put out a streaming quality audio version of In Rainbows for the name your own price venture.That's all good if you like to listen to your music on myspace, that's not me though. After they did that guess what came next? There RECORD LABEL put the cd into all of the stores to sell the physical product. They got a too much credit for this. Ask me Trent Reznor had a better approach for his free music, but didn't get near the press for it.
Comments
+1. Very well said.
The "sell out" accusation is such a joke. I'm not working for free, neither are you, why should they? If you don't like it find another band. There are a-plenty to choose from.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/jmgphotos/4731512142/" title="PJ Banner2 by Mister J Photography, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1135/4731512142_258f2d6ab4_b.jpg" width="630" height="112" alt="PJ Banner2" /></a>
you clearly have no idea of my legendary disdain for the flannel and wearing 9 pairs of shorts at once look from back in 1991... fuck me, Ten is my least favourite album... I like corporations, i would use Goldman Sachs for my investments if i was a super rich fucker... why? because they are good at what they do, they make shitloads of money... i would drink a Starbucks and not give 1 nanosecond of thought about how it was a super conglomerate business, i dont give a fuck... what i do give a fuck about is listening to hypocritical rock stars telling me about how bad things are for the poor little people and stop using this gas company and hey buy my friends cartoons as he's kinda struggling... i do give a fuck about how a band seems to care for the poor guy from Detroit who has lost his job and in the meantime they raise their ticket prices up so that they are twice the price of a Muse ticket...
i don't like Chris Martin from Coldplay preaching to me to buy Fair Trade goods, i'll buy what i want... I don't need that man telling me what to buy when I know he has a £9000 watch on... probably encrusted with gems mined in Nigeria by some little 9 year old boy who will die of sulphur poisoning next week.
I dont like Bono saying to me "every time I click my fingers a child in Africa dies"... he could buy Africa... at the very least he should stop clicking his fucking fingers and killing children.
who is saying that? can't you people read?
glad to see the old "if you don't like it find another band" nugget of wisdom coming out... it's up there in the top 10 lines of things 5 year old would say in an argument... right behind "it's my ball and you're not playing" which is number 1.
The poster bringing up Green Disease and Soon Forget makes a valid point. Just because you can point to worse corporate behavior like G-Sachs, doesn't excuse lesser offenses. Is a guy who robs a liquor store as bad as a rapist? Hell no, but that doesn't make him a model citizen either.
Not suggesting PJ is immoral or doing anything wrong, just saying that you can't defend their recent business practices against the way they did business in the 1990's by simply pointing to dispicable actions by others.
The band has changed. They are a part of the establishment now. The very one they once railed against. Call it selling out, gone against their priciples, evolved, changed with the times to survive, whatever you wanna call it, they a'int the same band they once were.
So can we please stop this ridiculous cult-like defense of Ed as if he's still the same against the establishment warrior that he was in 1994? It doesn't wear well on anyone. You've changed, I've changed, they've changed. The sooner this is acknowledged by the fan base, the sooner we can all move on as a happy Jamily. (Sorry, I had to, lol)
I will admit, I have not read through every page of this debate, but when people get up in arms about them playing three songs for Target -- a company they partnered with to sell a record the band self-released rather than go through a record company -- I have to laugh. Why shouldn't they have played the show? Why should it bother the posters on this board? I'm sure they were compensated nicely for it and good for them! I get paid, so should they.
I do think many defenses of this band are blind, but when this topic comes -- and it does, all the fucking time it seems -- just as many of the attacks are just as blind.
If what they have done makes them sell-outs, and if that is too much for you to bare, then yes, move on to another band.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Completely agree. Some people just love to complain. But just as many people have this absurd need to cling to where the band was 15 years ago. Pearl Jam is a long, long way from the anti-video, limited promotion, war-against-ticketmaster band we all fell in love with back in the heyday.
If that's too much for you to deal with, then maybe you should move on. I prefer to accept it so long as the music is still blissful to my ears. And it is. = )
Now if only they could fix this fan club of theirs....
- Dan
x10
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Now if Ed ever does a duet with a Jonas brother then I'd start to worry about things just a wee bit
Can you see me now
I am myself
Like you somehow
I'll ride the wave
Where it takes me
I'll hold the pain
Release me
why do you keep referring to my posts about the sell-out aspect of this? I don't care if they have 'sold out' or whatever phrase people use... i'm just not a fan of hypocrisy. PJ playing corporate gigs, TV ads, music on TV channels and all that is genuinely fine by me if the band acknowledge that fact and don't try and preach to us about big business and corporations ruling the day...
i repeat, i have no issue with them playing gigs like this, no problems with Saturday Night tv appearances, couldnt give a fuck about them making videos, rock band, whatever... the list goes on... what is really fucking annoying, and especially over the last few days its more apparent is that people think 10club and PJ can literally do no wrong...
i keep getting told "oh its a business dude" or "they are not a charity" etc etc etc... but so is my hairdresser.. but if she started charging me twice what she charged me 5 years ago and then on top of that started charging me a credit transaction fee every time i went i would be entitled to say to her "hey, what the fuck is going on with the costs?"
What concerns me about this, is that you have a hairdresser.
do you blame me?
Because I had no intention of referring to your posts at all when I originally posted. My point was to praise what Solarworld said very well, and to give my own two cents on the topic at hand --which, unfortunately, is yet another "debate about the band selling out. You quoted me and so I responded. If you don't think the band has sold out then don't feel you need to debate me any longer.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
And if that is what your hairdresser looks like then no, I don't blame you at all.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
is she cutting your scalp ?
if they did an version, then maybe they have "sold out"
--
really............ who gives a shit? i still like their music and that is what matters most at the end of the day.
I have no idea... my mind is on 2 other things.
ok, so they would have to suck up the cost of promotion, distribution, etc etc, and you think they can afford to do all that and then tour with no promotion behind it and still be in the black? I'm glad you aren't my accountant. You honestly believe they are all billionaires in huge mansions with Bunny Lebowski's sitting by their pools?
Do I follow any other bands? WTF kind of question is that? No, I listen to MB demos when I wake up, continue with No Code with my Alphagetti at wunchtime, and finish the night off with a nice nightcap of ITW. Gimme a break.
:roll:
Look, standards and situations change. They were against "the man" when that particular man was doing harm to the people. they obviously feel that Target is a decent enough organization to do business with. Why is that so difficult to grasp??
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
then I guess that means they sold out by doing MTV Unplugged and censoring himself!
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
The extent to which people put this band on an unreachable pedestal only sets them up for failure.
um... I take that back...
Over the last 20 years I've grown up, gotten married, had a kid, made money but one thing that hasnt changed are my morals, values and ideals.
I swear some of you don't listen to any other bands. There are plenty of groups that make a great living without doing shit like this.
She has to, he gets 3 haircuts a week....
I hate the term sell outs. They are sell outs, every fucking show. They are doing this for a living. The only people who can call someone else a sell out are those that are living on the street by choice and have given everything they have ever begged for away to someone else.
And for those who don't know TARGET is the most CHARITABLE CORPORATION IN THE WORLD. They give away millions of dollars IN CASH every year and have for as long as they have been profitable.
And before you come with the tired "doing it for tax breaks" stupid ass argument let me say this, the only people who say rich people only give to charity for the tax breaks have no money to give away. Couldn't it be that some people just give away a percentage of their income, no matter what it is, to charities? Go fuck yourselves and get back to listening to shitty bands and pretending to like them just in case they get popular.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Philly Boots - delayed b/c of tour
You know, It's funny that this word "Sellout" gets thrown around so much.
What's even funnier is that it's thrown around by a bunch of clowns who have no idea what or where to correctly apply this term.
Making money and playing shows do not make someone a sell out.
Besides...I don't know what sacred idealistic pipe dream planet some of you waterheads come from, but last time I checked Pearl Jam hasn't been an indie band since about 1990.
They have a VERY LARGE fanbase and are VERY VERY RICH because they have sold MANY MANY RECORDS.
Their last record was their best selling album in years...
Backspacer is quickly approaching the 500,000 mark which will make it one of the biggest selling independent albums ever.
This partly due in thanks to Target. So forgive the band if this is their way of saying thank you.
What you fail to realize is that the climate has changed for musicians these days. Record companies have crumbled and traditional methods of getting your record out to the public have changed so dramatically in the last 10 years that bands like Pearl Jam -As rich and successful as they are- to seek out other deals with companies such as Target just to exsist and stay relevant.
1) I still don't see them selling their songs to commercials...unlike some of your sacred bullet proof Indie band flavors of the month who are selling their songs to commercials jleft right and centre.
2) They're not jumping on the Monopoly Gravy Train called "Live Nation" like U2, Madonna...ect, ect, ect signing for multi million dollar contracts and losing control over their music and merchandising
3) Their tickets are still cheaper than any band of their stature.
If you just pull your heads out of your snooty asses for a minute and realize that there are many ways in which this band could be robbing, stealing, and screwing you sideways right now.
But they've chosen not to, and have fought for us at every corner despite a music industry that is very different now than what it was then....and changing more and more by the minute.
Sure they've had to make some compromises, but I truly believe that they still care very deaply for the music fan and us 10 club assholes despite our short sighted dingbat theories on how playing a private shows for Target, or doing TV shows and interviews, or making an effort to promote your music is some how some kind of sell out move.
This term should have died in the 1990's because it no longer makes sense today.
I'm thankful that this band is still relevant after all these years.
They can play where ever the fuck they want...I'm just glad that my favorite band is still around and that more and more people are getting exposed to them.
The world can only be a better place with more Pearl Jam...So bring it on.
See You Out There.
Look at Tom Petty's recent tour.....he segregates the best tickets out for $300/ticket....for Tom Petty
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Radiohead put out a streaming quality audio version of In Rainbows for the name your own price venture.That's all good if you like to listen to your music on myspace, that's not me though. After they did that guess what came next? There RECORD LABEL put the cd into all of the stores to sell the physical product. They got a too much credit for this. Ask me Trent Reznor had a better approach for his free music, but didn't get near the press for it.