Abortion-Keep Legal, Yes or No?

I figured since it’s currently a hot topic in the gun thread, I’d start an abortion topic thread.

I’ll begin by responding to benjs’ last post in the gun thread: who says a woman is obligated to carry until term? Why shouldn’t that be her decision and hers alone?
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Comments

  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWestPosts: 12,185
    Safe, legal and rare.
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  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 19,210
    edited March 1
    It’s her choice and her choice only 
    That’s not even debatable ! I don’t agree with bjens assessment ..
    Post edited by josevolution on
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  • PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo FacePosts: 3,995
    What is the consensus?  At what point in the pregnancy does it not become okay to abort?  Once there is a detectable heartbeat?  Once they have the ability to experience pain (brain activity)?  Once they are able to live on their own at 18? Lol
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  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 11,180
    PJPOWER said:
    What is the consensus?  At what point in the pregnancy does it not become okay to abort?  Once there is a detectable heartbeat?  Once they have the ability to experience pain (brain activity)?  Once they are able to live on their own at 18? Lol
    Why stop there, why not before conception?  
    Let's ban contraceptives and male masturbation.
    Are women sinful because they kill an egg every month?
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  • PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo FacePosts: 3,995
    rgambs said:
    PJPOWER said:
    What is the consensus?  At what point in the pregnancy does it not become okay to abort?  Once there is a detectable heartbeat?  Once they have the ability to experience pain (brain activity)?  Once they are able to live on their own at 18? Lol
    Why stop there, why not before conception?  
    Let's ban contraceptives and male masturbation.
    Are women sinful because they kill an egg every month?
    That’s backwards thinking, lol 
    Just messing with ya :)
    I do believe that the term “abortion” refers to the action taken after an egg is fertilized, though, or am I missing something?
    "At least I'm housebroken"
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 8,202
    rgambs said:
    PJPOWER said:
    What is the consensus?  At what point in the pregnancy does it not become okay to abort?  Once there is a detectable heartbeat?  Once they have the ability to experience pain (brain activity)?  Once they are able to live on their own at 18? Lol
    Why stop there, why not before conception?  
    Let's ban contraceptives and male masturbation.
    Are women sinful because they kill an egg every month?
    Some agree with all of those points. I recently saw a protestor with a sign that said “The Pill Kills Billions Every Month”. Held by a man, of course; he wasn’t going to have to gestate any of those billions. 

    For the record - legal, absolutely. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • riley540riley540 Bellingham WAPosts: 867
    edited March 1
    People often make the argument that life is created at conception because that’s when unique DNA is created. Making up an individual. There is a lot of information and debate out there. Too much to post here. 
    Post edited by riley540 on
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 13,589
    conception?

    Keep it legal, keep it safe. 
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 24,565
    Keep it legal.

    "In the United States, it actually depends on the state in which you live. It goes by the fetal age of viability and that is around 24 weeks. This means the fetus is most likely able to survive outside the mother’s body at or around 24 weeks, so if an abortion is performed after this period it is considered “intent to murder.”

    http://www.newkidscenter.com/When-Is-It-too-Late-to-Get-an-Abortion.html

    This sounds reasonable to me.  24 weeks should be adequate time to make that decision.

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  • dankinddankind I am not your foot. Posts: 11,896
    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,132
    JimmyV said:
    Safe, legal and rare.
    There are circumstances where I could take this route.

    It shouldn't be birth control.
  • lastexitlondonlastexitlondon Posts: 3,414
    Legal and only the business of the two involved. 
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  • wobbler_kittywobbler_kitty Millbury, MAPosts: 149
    No question. Keep it legal, safe, at any point needed or wanted, and across all states. None of these varying state by state limitations, waiting periods or attempts-to-talk-you-out-of-it counseling and funeral bullshit . Easy access to clinics in all states. Fuck that, easy access all over the world.
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 2,683
    edited March 1
    My response I am referring to majority of abortions. I may have a different view when it comes to rape and medical necessities, but that is a very small percentage of abortions.

    It is often misrepresented on both sides.
    This debate only comes down to one thing.
    Someone's view on abortion is not about women's rights. Everyone believes women deserved to be treated equally and have equal rights. Someone's stance on abortion has nothing to do with how they feel women should be treated.
    It is not about "murdering" babies. No one is for abortion because they hate kids and are okay with genocide of an infant population.
    It is grossly misrepresented because how many times have pro-lifers been accused of sexism towards women (even though a lot are women themselves), how often are pro-choicers accused of murdering babies. So I'll say me being pro-life does not make disrespect women any more than you being pro-choice makes you a murderer. 
    In all the conversations I've ever had it always boils down to just 1 thing: Is a unborn child a human life? If so, at what stage?

    Every person who I ever met who is pro-choice does not think so. Every person who I ever met who is pro-life does. And anyone who thinks it is a life, that right to live suprasses a woman's right to chose. 

    I hate this topic because I rarely find people willing to have a civilized conversation about it - from both sides.
    Calling a fetus a blob or goo doesn't change my view, just like playing an ultrasound with a heartbeat most likely won't change yours.
    I happen to believe life, and human life has begun at the earliest stages of development. I have no scientific reason or proof to back that up, just like no one has any scientific proof to say life does not exist. That is my opinion, and everyone else is entitled to theirs. 

    I have a hard time seeing human features, listening to a heart beat on an ultrasound and saying that life has no rights and can be terminated for no medical reason. For me it isn't about choices, it's about life at that point.
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • riley540riley540 Bellingham WAPosts: 867
    I am open about being pro life. I don’t belong to any religion or anything god related. 

    My view comes from the idea of when when I think “life” is created. For me, it isn’t at birth. We have humans that are brain dead that we are legally obligated to keep alive. An 8 month old fetus has more brain power than some sick people. 

    Then em I looked at how pre-mature Can a baby survive outside of its life line (the mother) and I came to the conclusion that it doesn’t matter. 

    My my grandma who is 93 is often supported by machines to keep life in her, and we value her life no less than anyone else. 

    So so then I kept asking myself, what makes a baby unique. The only thing that makes a person a person is unique genetic make up. This happens at conception when sperm meets an egg. 

    I belibe once unique life life is formed, the life deserves legal protection. 

    I dont stand outside abortion clinics with signs. I don’t slander people who get abortions, or anything alike. There are many young people who make a mistake and get pregnant. 

    I think we all need to do better about making sex less taboo so kids are comfortable talking about safe practices and preventing pregnancy. It’s super easy. There are so many forms of pre pregnancy control out there. 

    All just my opinion through years of learning about the issue.
  • jeffbrjeffbr SeattlePosts: 5,971
    Keep it legal and safe. This is a personal, private decision made by a woman about her body. It shouldn't be a policy decision made by wrinkly old men.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, ColoradoPosts: 5,217
    Legal, Safe, and Easily accessible and affordable
  • hedonisthedonist standing on the edge of foreverPosts: 19,165
    Boarding the legal and safe train!  I doubt judgments, protests and the like won't continue to occur...but hopefully will be lessened over time.
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 9,917
    No abortion is safe...someone always dies. 
    hippiemom = goodness
  • dankinddankind I am not your foot. Posts: 11,896
    jeffbr said:
    Keep it legal and safe. This is a personal, private decision made by a woman about her body. It shouldn't be a policy decision made by wrinkly old men.
    I'll take it further. My opinion on this shouldn't even matter. Neither should anyone's with a Y chromosome.
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  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWestPosts: 12,185
    No abortion is safe...someone always dies. 
    Even if that's true, safe and legal for the mother and rare in society is the best we can hope for currently. Maybe someday the need for it will be eradicated altogether but that day is not today.
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  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer MarylandPosts: 11,742
    You know what's meant by "safe," don't be a contrarian.

    And it doesn't matter what any of us consider "life" to be or when we consider it to start.  That's not up for us to decide. It's up to the person getting the procedure done.  If you don't think nearly every potential mother considers the emotional repercussions of having an abortion and mentally battles with herself whether she is killing a life or not, especially one her body helped create, you've not met any woman, ever.
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 9,917
    dankind said:
    jeffbr said:
    Keep it legal and safe. This is a personal, private decision made by a woman about her body. It shouldn't be a policy decision made by wrinkly old men.
    I'll take it further. My opinion on this shouldn't even matter. Neither should anyone's with a Y chromosome.
    Yeah cause men aren't involved in making a baby nor are 50% of babies boys.  I hate this argument.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 9,917
    JimmyV said:
    No abortion is safe...someone always dies. 
    Even if that's true, safe and legal for the mother and rare in society is the best we can hope for currently. Maybe someday the need for it will be eradicated altogether but that day is not today.
    I can agree.  Stopping cold turkey in a case like this would be catastrophic.  It begins with education, access to birth control, open communication about sex, counseling/support....
    hippiemom = goodness
  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer MarylandPosts: 11,742
    JimmyV said:
    No abortion is safe...someone always dies. 
    Even if that's true, safe and legal for the mother and rare in society is the best we can hope for currently. Maybe someday the need for it will be eradicated altogether but that day is not today.
    I can agree.  Stopping cold turkey in a case like this would be catastrophic.  It begins with education, access to birth control, open communication about sex, counseling/support....
    All things Planned Parenthood provides.
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 9,917
    You know what's meant by "safe," don't be a contrarian.

    And it doesn't matter what any of us consider "life" to be or when we consider it to start.  That's not up for us to decide. It's up to the person getting the procedure done.  If you don't think nearly every potential mother considers the emotional repercussions of having an abortion and mentally battles with herself whether she is killing a life or not, especially one her body helped create, you've not met any woman, ever.
    ummm, that's not being a contrarian.  I and fully disagree with the next 3 sentences.  As for the rest, I'm sure the vast majority do.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • dankinddankind I am not your foot. Posts: 11,896
    dankind said:
    jeffbr said:
    Keep it legal and safe. This is a personal, private decision made by a woman about her body. It shouldn't be a policy decision made by wrinkly old men.
    I'll take it further. My opinion on this shouldn't even matter. Neither should anyone's with a Y chromosome.
    Yeah cause men aren't involved in making a baby nor are 50% of babies boys.  I hate this argument.
    While men are usually involved in making them, they're not all involved in raising them.

    And actually, a little more than 50% of babies are boys, and sans a uterus transplant, none of them will ever gestate.

    Hate away. 
    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • Miss.SnowdropMiss.Snowdrop ScotlandPosts: 162
    This is super close to my heart since my mother was debating abortion when she was pregnant with me. And let me tell ya, I am pretty happy about the fact that she decided against it. 
    So from a perspective of a child that nearly didn't make it into the world... I fucking hate abortion and it hurts me to think of all the little people whose mother decided against them... BUT!
    As a woman I also understand that there are situations where it seems impossible to raise or even give birth to a child. You may feel too young, immature, poor, socially isolated or your pregnancy may have been a result of rape which is absolutely horrifying. I even understand why my own mother was considering abortion, I am not mad at her, because in the end she decided to keep me. As difficult as my life may be sometimes, I am still thankful. 
    I think what it needs is a better support system for women who are pregnant and face seemingly hopeless situations. There is so much stigma when it comes to teenage pregnancies, single women and so on as well as financial pressure when raising a child. It's just not fair. We have the future of humanity in our bellies and are being treated like shit sometimes.  I wish we lived a world where no child was seen as a burden but as a gift and where no one would look at you like you were a mass murderer when you have to give a child away because you want it to have a future you are not able to provide. 
  • DegeneratefkDegeneratefk Posts: 3,123
    I think it should be used as birth control. Keep it legal. 
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  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 42,274
    edited March 1
    Of course, and I can't even believe it's still up for debate in America, in terms of a simple yes or no. I think it's beyond clear that other people's opinions on whether or not a women should be allowed to have control over her own body are completely irrelevant, at least in the more black and white context.
    The one thing I am actually comfortable supporting is a reasonable hard deadline for elective abortion, barring medical reasons, obviously (including allowing mothers to choose to abort after if there are problems with the fetus, including things like Downs, only up until the earliest time it's possible to find such things out). I.e. elective abortion maybe shouldn't be legal after, say, 16 weeks? IMO, 16 weeks is more than enough time for someone to know they're pregnant and decide what to do if they don't want the baby.... that is, if abortions are accessible. They often aren't in America, and the delay can be directly related to that. In those cases, fuck the system. It makes me feel awful that women still have to fight to control their own bodies in many places in America like that, and are met with barriers every step of the way.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
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