If there is a God his biggest failure is creating humans.
Hmmm,. So there are no good humans? And what if I told you that he created this Earth to be inhabited? So whether or not we came along by intelligent design or through Evolution baby you're saying that humans are bad. So everybody here who presumably enjoys the same music, enjoy talking with one another, having friends and family are all God's failures, wow. "If there is a god" we are all mistakes? While we have our differences I think that we have a lot of good in common. There are some bad apples throughout humanity, but I think that there are a lot of spectacular, good and beautiful people through out humanity.. I see a lot of beautiful people when I go to a Pearl Jam show for example. People that get involved in humanitarian efforts or attend a charity concert to help those in need. Firefighters that run into burning buildings trying to save people. There are people that like to seek and destroy all that is good. And then you have people that sacrifice themselves for the good of others. You don't have to do heroic things to be a value to humanity either it could be as simple as holding the door open at a convenience store for an old lady coming behind you with a walker rather than letting the door shut and letting her fumble bumble and a struggle to get herself in on her own. And then as mentioned earlier after the bombing at the Ariana Grande concert you had homeless people pulling Nails out of a young girl's face and trying to help in any way they could to me that's awesome Humanity. The idea that all humans suck is unbelievable. Some do & some don't.
Thank you for contributing with a little positive thoughts on this. If we humans didn't have some humanity, I don't think we would have come as far as we have with the building of society's and such.
yes, there are good humans. a lot of them. but most of the ones who are in positions of power are not those people, and we are allowing them to destroy the planet and each other.
I don't think the point was that all humans suck. It was that the acts of our species over time have been negative towards the earth and its other inhabitants.
HFD, and eddiec, spot on. This is why I do not find it contradictory for me to say that I love several individuals and like a great many but am basically misanthropic. There are millions, perhaps billions of wonderful humans on this planet but as a species we are a blight. I don't say that to be vengeful, nasty or hateful. I say it because, until we prove otherwise, I consider it to be a fact within the constraints of science. In studying the science of ecology (not the popular notion, the science) it is plain to see we are a species at odds with the balances of nature. We despoil and poison our air, water and land base, crap in our own nest, have overreached carrying capacity in our reproduction, over-consume the resources necessary for our survival and alter the climate in ways that, in the not-to-distant future, will be very harmful to our survival. And we do all this with nary a thought as to how all this affects other life as if it is our God given (speaking of God) right to do so.
All true, Brian, but we are far from the only species that exceeds our carrying capacity. Virtually any species will consume as many resources available and breed as much as possible, but most are limited by competition. Those that aren't tend to have boom and bust cycles. Humans have simply been more successful at avoiding those limits, so far.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
If there is a God his biggest failure is creating humans.
Hmmm,. So there are no good humans? And what if I told you that he created this Earth to be inhabited? So whether or not we came along by intelligent design or through Evolution baby you're saying that humans are bad. So everybody here who presumably enjoys the same music, enjoy talking with one another, having friends and family are all God's failures, wow. "If there is a god" we are all mistakes? While we have our differences I think that we have a lot of good in common. There are some bad apples throughout humanity, but I think that there are a lot of spectacular, good and beautiful people through out humanity.. I see a lot of beautiful people when I go to a Pearl Jam show for example. People that get involved in humanitarian efforts or attend a charity concert to help those in need. Firefighters that run into burning buildings trying to save people. There are people that like to seek and destroy all that is good. And then you have people that sacrifice themselves for the good of others. You don't have to do heroic things to be a value to humanity either it could be as simple as holding the door open at a convenience store for an old lady coming behind you with a walker rather than letting the door shut and letting her fumble bumble and a struggle to get herself in on her own. And then as mentioned earlier after the bombing at the Ariana Grande concert you had homeless people pulling Nails out of a young girl's face and trying to help in any way they could to me that's awesome Humanity. The idea that all humans suck is unbelievable. Some do & some don't.
Thank you for contributing with a little positive thoughts on this. If we humans didn't have some humanity, I don't think we would have come as far as we have with the building of society's and such.
yes, there are good humans. a lot of them. but most of the ones who are in positions of power are not those people, and we are allowing them to destroy the planet and each other.
I don't think the point was that all humans suck. It was that the acts of our species over time have been negative towards the earth and its other inhabitants.
HFD, and eddiec, spot on. This is why I do not find it contradictory for me to say that I love several individuals and like a great many but am basically misanthropic. There are millions, perhaps billions of wonderful humans on this planet but as a species we are a blight. I don't say that to be vengeful, nasty or hateful. I say it because, until we prove otherwise, I consider it to be a fact within the constraints of science. In studying the science of ecology (not the popular notion, the science) it is plain to see we are a species at odds with the balances of nature. We despoil and poison our air, water and land base, crap in our own nest, have overreached carrying capacity in our reproduction, over-consume the resources necessary for our survival and alter the climate in ways that, in the not-to-distant future, will be very harmful to our survival. And we do all this with nary a thought as to how all this affects other life as if it is our God given (speaking of God) right to do so.
All true, Brian, but we are far from the only species that exceeds our carrying capacity. Virtually any species will consume as many resources available and breed as much as possible, but most are limited by competition. Those that aren't tend to have boom and bust cycles. Humans have simply been more successful at avoiding those limits, so far.
I must say this has been quite a read. As a human being reading this I am so lucky to even have been born. There are infinite amounts out there that could have been created but never will be and will never know a thing called life. Bring on the humans! My god some people have a dismal outlook.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,727
If there is a God his biggest failure is creating humans.
Hmmm,. So there are no good humans? And what if I told you that he created this Earth to be inhabited? So whether or not we came along by intelligent design or through Evolution baby you're saying that humans are bad. So everybody here who presumably enjoys the same music, enjoy talking with one another, having friends and family are all God's failures, wow. "If there is a god" we are all mistakes? While we have our differences I think that we have a lot of good in common. There are some bad apples throughout humanity, but I think that there are a lot of spectacular, good and beautiful people through out humanity.. I see a lot of beautiful people when I go to a Pearl Jam show for example. People that get involved in humanitarian efforts or attend a charity concert to help those in need. Firefighters that run into burning buildings trying to save people. There are people that like to seek and destroy all that is good. And then you have people that sacrifice themselves for the good of others. You don't have to do heroic things to be a value to humanity either it could be as simple as holding the door open at a convenience store for an old lady coming behind you with a walker rather than letting the door shut and letting her fumble bumble and a struggle to get herself in on her own. And then as mentioned earlier after the bombing at the Ariana Grande concert you had homeless people pulling Nails out of a young girl's face and trying to help in any way they could to me that's awesome Humanity. The idea that all humans suck is unbelievable. Some do & some don't.
Thank you for contributing with a little positive thoughts on this. If we humans didn't have some humanity, I don't think we would have come as far as we have with the building of society's and such.
yes, there are good humans. a lot of them. but most of the ones who are in positions of power are not those people, and we are allowing them to destroy the planet and each other.
I don't think the point was that all humans suck. It was that the acts of our species over time have been negative towards the earth and its other inhabitants.
HFD, and eddiec, spot on. This is why I do not find it contradictory for me to say that I love several individuals and like a great many but am basically misanthropic. There are millions, perhaps billions of wonderful humans on this planet but as a species we are a blight. I don't say that to be vengeful, nasty or hateful. I say it because, until we prove otherwise, I consider it to be a fact within the constraints of science. In studying the science of ecology (not the popular notion, the science) it is plain to see we are a species at odds with the balances of nature. We despoil and poison our air, water and land base, crap in our own nest, have overreached carrying capacity in our reproduction, over-consume the resources necessary for our survival and alter the climate in ways that, in the not-to-distant future, will be very harmful to our survival. And we do all this with nary a thought as to how all this affects other life as if it is our God given (speaking of God) right to do so.
All true, Brian, but we are far from the only species that exceeds our carrying capacity. Virtually any species will consume as many resources available and breed as much as possible, but most are limited by competition. Those that aren't tend to have boom and bust cycles. Humans have simply been more successful at avoiding those limits, so far.
I must say this has been quite a read. As a human being reading this I am so lucky to even have been born. There are infinite amounts out there that could have been created but never will be and will never know a thing called life. Bring on the humans! My god some people have a dismal outlook.
Reality and fact are neither dismal nor joyful. Such an idea is illogical.
Spock out.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
So I guess everyone who rely only on facts and logic thinks there are no real meaning with life. That this is all a coincidence that we are here because of different chain reactions happening for no real reason at all. Almost like we would be only very advanced robots with no souls.
So I guess everyone who rely only on facts and logic thinks there are no real meaning with life. That this is all a coincidence that we are here because of different chain reactions happening for no real reason at all. Almost like we would be only very advanced robots with no souls.
It makes us realize how precious life is. All life. This life has incredible meaning.
Why do those who believe in heaven get so sad when people die? Deep down they know.
So I guess everyone who rely only on facts and logic thinks there are no real meaning with life. That this is all a coincidence that we are here because of different chain reactions happening for no real reason at all. Almost like we would be only very advanced robots with no souls.
It makes us realize how precious life is. All life. This life has incredible meaning.
Why do those who believe in heaven get so sad when people die? Deep down they know.
Yes I agree, life is precious. It's very normal to get sad when someone is not with us anymore. I always cry like crazy at funerals it's like I can't stop it. Anyway I think that truly unselfish acts is at least a little "proof" that we are more than highly advanced robots of flesh and blood.
So I guess everyone who rely only on facts and logic thinks there are no real meaning with life. That this is all a coincidence that we are here because of different chain reactions happening for no real reason at all. Almost like we would be only very advanced robots with no souls.
Isn't a being capable of action that has been created by another being the very definition of a robot, though? Particularly when you add in the religious programming.
it seems to me that evolution produces more autonomous beings than creationism.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
So I guess everyone who rely only on facts and logic thinks there are no real meaning with life. That this is all a coincidence that we are here because of different chain reactions happening for no real reason at all. Almost like we would be only very advanced robots with no souls.
I don't prescribe to religion and I don't believe in God. Not in the anthropomorphic, all mighty, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, creator-of-everything sense anyway. However, I do think there is meaning and purpose in life. To put it simply, I believe that purpose is to enjoy the time you have here and be kind and helpful to others as much as you can. The key to happiness is to enjoy all things - or at least as many things as possible. I'll never quite understand why anything exists at all, but I'm here so I'm going to have fun.
So I guess everyone who rely only on facts and logic thinks there are no real meaning with life. That this is all a coincidence that we are here because of different chain reactions happening for no real reason at all. Almost like we would be only very advanced robots with no souls.
It makes us realize how precious life is. All life. This life has incredible meaning.
Why do those who believe in heaven get so sad when people die? Deep down they know.
Kinda a weird statement...do you get sad when someone you love moves away? Does that mean they no longer exist? Why are you sad then? Cause they aren't with you, same with death.
I honestly don;t know what I believe. I was raised Catholic but haven't been to church in many, many years. I generally dislike organized religion and I don't really believe in their versions of God. But, for some reason I do think there is something more...just don't know if that is due to my upbringing and all your hear throughout life...or if I just want there to be more...or if I really think there is something more.
And it depends on the situation. If I'm listening to someone talk about their religion like they are obviously correct and I just haven't been enlightened yet, I get more bitter about it and tend to believe less in a God. If I listen to an agnostic talk about how stupid it is to believe in God and there is no proof, I tend to believe in a God more. Perhaps I'm just a contrarian, but really I think I just don;t know and those that claim to 100% know bother me.
So I guess everyone who rely only on facts and logic thinks there are no real meaning with life. That this is all a coincidence that we are here because of different chain reactions happening for no real reason at all. Almost like we would be only very advanced robots with no souls.
Isn't a being capable of action that has been created by another being the very definition of a robot, though? Particularly when you add in the religious programming.
it seems to me that evolution produces more autonomous beings than creationism.
You know exactly how a robot is going to act in different situations. You can never really know with humans can you? I think we are more like blank sheets and that's the interesting part.
So I guess everyone who rely only on facts and logic thinks there are no real meaning with life. That this is all a coincidence that we are here because of different chain reactions happening for no real reason at all. Almost like we would be only very advanced robots with no souls.
I don't prescribe to religion and I don't believe in God. Not in the anthropomorphic, all mighty, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, creator-of-everything sense anyway. However, I do think there is meaning and purpose in life. To put it simply, I believe that purpose is to enjoy the time you have here and be kind and helpful to others as much as you can. The key to happiness is to enjoy all things - or at least as many things as possible. I'll never quite understand why anything exists at all, but I'm here so I'm going to have fun.
Sounds great! I do all of that too, except I think we have a soul and a connection with God. It's like I can't choose to not believe I just do.
If there is a God his biggest failure is creating humans.
Hmmm,. So there are no good humans? And what if I told you that he created this Earth to be inhabited? So whether or not we came along by intelligent design or through Evolution baby you're saying that humans are bad. So everybody here who presumably enjoys the same music, enjoy talking with one another, having friends and family are all God's failures, wow. "If there is a god" we are all mistakes? While we have our differences I think that we have a lot of good in common. There are some bad apples throughout humanity, but I think that there are a lot of spectacular, good and beautiful people through out humanity.. I see a lot of beautiful people when I go to a Pearl Jam show for example. People that get involved in humanitarian efforts or attend a charity concert to help those in need. Firefighters that run into burning buildings trying to save people. There are people that like to seek and destroy all that is good. And then you have people that sacrifice themselves for the good of others. You don't have to do heroic things to be a value to humanity either it could be as simple as holding the door open at a convenience store for an old lady coming behind you with a walker rather than letting the door shut and letting her fumble bumble and a struggle to get herself in on her own. And then as mentioned earlier after the bombing at the Ariana Grande concert you had homeless people pulling Nails out of a young girl's face and trying to help in any way they could to me that's awesome Humanity. The idea that all humans suck is unbelievable. Some do & some don't.
Thank you for contributing with a little positive thoughts on this. If we humans didn't have some humanity, I don't think we would have come as far as we have with the building of society's and such.
yes, there are good humans. a lot of them. but most of the ones who are in positions of power are not those people, and we are allowing them to destroy the planet and each other.
I don't think the point was that all humans suck. It was that the acts of our species over time have been negative towards the earth and its other inhabitants.
HFD, and eddiec, spot on. This is why I do not find it contradictory for me to say that I love several individuals and like a great many but am basically misanthropic. There are millions, perhaps billions of wonderful humans on this planet but as a species we are a blight. I don't say that to be vengeful, nasty or hateful. I say it because, until we prove otherwise, I consider it to be a fact within the constraints of science. In studying the science of ecology (not the popular notion, the science) it is plain to see we are a species at odds with the balances of nature. We despoil and poison our air, water and land base, crap in our own nest, have overreached carrying capacity in our reproduction, over-consume the resources necessary for our survival and alter the climate in ways that, in the not-to-distant future, will be very harmful to our survival. And we do all this with nary a thought as to how all this affects other life as if it is our God given (speaking of God) right to do so.
All true, Brian, but we are far from the only species that exceeds our carrying capacity. Virtually any species will consume as many resources available and breed as much as possible, but most are limited by competition. Those that aren't tend to have boom and bust cycles. Humans have simply been more successful at avoiding those limits, so far.
I must say this has been quite a read. As a human being reading this I am so lucky to even have been born. There are infinite amounts out there that could have been created but never will be and will never know a thing called life. Bring on the humans! My god some people have a dismal outlook.
Your privilege is showing. It's easy to say those things and have that outlook when you've never known true hunger. Life is not always a gift, for half the world it's a terrible burden. "Bring on the humans!" is just a guarantee that more will suffer in ways we can't even perceive.
So I guess everyone who rely only on facts and logic thinks there are no real meaning with life. That this is all a coincidence that we are here because of different chain reactions happening for no real reason at all. Almost like we would be only very advanced robots with no souls.
We can make our lives meaningful. No doubt about that. I choose to not believe in invisible beings and supernatural myths.
It was said earlier in this thread. There are many religions with many gods. You don't believe in all of the possible gods right? I just choose to believe in one less god than you.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
So I guess everyone who rely only on facts and logic thinks there are no real meaning with life. That this is all a coincidence that we are here because of different chain reactions happening for no real reason at all. Almost like we would be only very advanced robots with no souls.
We can make our lives meaningful. No doubt about that. I choose to not believe in invisible beings and supernatural myths.
It was said earlier in this thread. There are many religions with many gods. You don't believe in all of the possible gods right? I just choose to believe in one less god than you.
"Reality and fact are neither dismal nor joyful. Such an idea is illogical." Not sure if that was poking fun or for real. All in good fun for sure. Certainly not true, reality and facts can be joyful. If I get a raise, it's a fact, and it makes me joyful.
So many people live life in a re-active state, constantly reacting to what happened, who called, the weather, the bible, people at your door, etc...everything. If life is all reactive then when does free will come in. I am reactive at times, there are times when it is just unavoidable.
My hubby sees the JW coming to the door, he says draw the shades and don't answer the door. I go to the door and step onto the walk way and greet them , ask them how they are doing, tell them to make it a great day. They want to tell me their thoughts, I'll listen. Maybe one word or facial expression will stick with me and follow me onto another conversation. We all interact and we all make the world go around.
Not sure what happened, when or why but all these labels and judgements have overcome society. People gotta be this or that, why not just be people, humans, we have feelings, shortcomings, assets. Most people just need food, shelter and love.
For anyone that believes their life is miniscual in the scope of the world and time in general, no matter how small we feel our contribution to society is, it is not. Each and everyone of us matter, our lives and how we live them will affect generations to come, this I am convinced. I've seen too many insignificant events happen that had a significant affect later on.
just chiming in.... on the 3rd day of the 50th year of my life.
Cheers!!
Amy The Great #74594
New Orleans LA 7/4/95 reschedule 9/17/95
Chicago IL 1998, 10/9/00, 06/18/03, 05/16/06, 05/17/06
08/23/09, 08/24/09, Lolla 08/05/07
Champaign IL 4/23/03
Grand Rapids MI VFC 10/03/04
Grand Rapids MI 19May06
Noblesville IN 05/07/10 Cleveland OH 05/09/10
PJ 20 2011
Baltimore MD, Charlottesville VA, Seattle WA 2013
St. Louis MO, Milwaukee WI 2014
Tampa FL, Chicago IL, Lexington KY 2016 Missoula MT 2018
So I guess everyone who rely only on facts and logic thinks there are no real meaning with life. That this is all a coincidence that we are here because of different chain reactions happening for no real reason at all. Almost like we would be only very advanced robots with no souls.
Isn't a being capable of action that has been created by another being the very definition of a robot, though? Particularly when you add in the religious programming.
it seems to me that evolution produces more autonomous beings than creationism.
Hosea 6:6 For I desire mercy, (which is Grace - LOVE) And not sacrifice; and gaining The knowledge of God more than burnt offerings. He created us because He wanted to be loved. But no matter how powerful or all knowing that He is, love cannot be forced. That's why he gave us free will, because without free will, we would be essentially robots. In order for love to be genuine it has to originate from within each entity. Or we would all be like this. https://youtu.be/h2n5ro6xWaE Not much satisfaction in that.
Post edited by RYME on
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,727
"Reality and fact are neither dismal nor joyful. Such an idea is illogical." Not sure if that was poking fun or for real. All in good fun for sure. Certainly not true, reality and facts can be joyful. If I get a raise, it's a fact, and it makes me joyful.
So many people live life in a re-active state, constantly reacting to what happened, who called, the weather, the bible, people at your door, etc...everything. If life is all reactive then when does free will come in. I am reactive at times, there are times when it is just unavoidable.
My hubby sees the JW coming to the door, he says draw the shades and don't answer the door. I go to the door and step onto the walk way and greet them , ask them how they are doing, tell them to make it a great day. They want to tell me their thoughts, I'll listen. Maybe one word or facial expression will stick with me and follow me onto another conversation. We all interact and we all make the world go around.
Not sure what happened, when or why but all these labels and judgements have overcome society. People gotta be this or that, why not just be people, humans, we have feelings, shortcomings, assets. Most people just need food, shelter and love.
For anyone that believes their life is miniscual in the scope of the world and time in general, no matter how small we feel our contribution to society is, it is not. Each and everyone of us matter, our lives and how we live them will affect generations to come, this I am convinced. I've seen too many insignificant events happen that had a significant affect later on.
just chiming in.... on the 3rd day of the 50th year of my life.
Cheers!!
I was poking a little fun but mostly being sincere. PJFan had said, "My god some people have a dismal outlook", in response to me and a few others talking about the negative impact of humans on our planet. Yes, I would say that impact is dismal but the stating of what is is simply a statement of what we perceive as fact. So what I meant was any statement of a fact is itself just a fact- neither dismal nor joyous. But our reaction to the fact may be one that is very dismal or joyous.
I totally agree that many people are overly re-active. I think all of us are over-reactive at times and instead, it's better as much as possible to think critically and be skeptical of what we hear and to be slower to react. Hopefully we all learn to do this as a part of aging and growing more wise. Me, I've had to work at it.
Yes, labels and judgements- another topic worthy of consideration. Labels, I especially problematic. Judgements- they are best made very judiciously!
Congratulations on entering your 50's. A cousin of mine once told me one's 50 is the best decade of life (if you are in good health anyway) because you have gained much in knowledge and wisdom and still have the energy to use those to good advantage. I'm trying to make my 6th decade work that way too, but it's not as easy.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
So I guess everyone who rely only on facts and logic thinks there are no real meaning with life. That this is all a coincidence that we are here because of different chain reactions happening for no real reason at all. Almost like we would be only very advanced robots with no souls.
It makes us realize how precious life is. All life. This life has incredible meaning.
Why do those who believe in heaven get so sad when people die? Deep down they know.
Kinda a weird statement...do you get sad when someone you love moves away? Does that mean they no longer exist? Why are you sad then? Cause they aren't with you, same with death.
I honestly don;t know what I believe. I was raised Catholic but haven't been to church in many, many years. I generally dislike organized religion and I don't really believe in their versions of God. But, for some reason I do think there is something more...just don't know if that is due to my upbringing and all your hear throughout life...or if I just want there to be more...or if I really think there is something more.
And it depends on the situation. If I'm listening to someone talk about their religion like they are obviously correct and I just haven't been enlightened yet, I get more bitter about it and tend to believe less in a God. If I listen to an agnostic talk about how stupid it is to believe in God and there is no proof, I tend to believe in a God more. Perhaps I'm just a contrarian, but really I think I just don;t know and those that claim to 100% know bother me.
I've lived all around the world and miss people, but don't cry. I really wouldn't be sad if I knew they were experiencing eternal bliss in heaven. Maybe I'd cry out of jealousy perhaps.
So I guess everyone who rely only on facts and logic thinks there are no real meaning with life. That this is all a coincidence that we are here because of different chain reactions happening for no real reason at all. Almost like we would be only very advanced robots with no souls.
It makes us realize how precious life is. All life. This life has incredible meaning.
Why do those who believe in heaven get so sad when people die? Deep down they know.
I honestly don;t know what I believe.
I've lived all around the world and miss people, but don't cry. I really wouldn't be sad if I knew they were experiencing eternal bliss in heaven. Maybe I'd cry out of jealousy perhaps.
Do you think you feel this way because of religion's tentacles?
So I guess everyone who rely only on facts and logic thinks there are no real meaning with life. That this is all a coincidence that we are here because of different chain reactions happening for no real reason at all. Almost like we would be only very advanced robots with no souls.
It makes us realize how precious life is. All life. This life has incredible meaning.
Why do those who believe in heaven get so sad when people die? Deep down they know.
I honestly don;t know what I believe.
I've lived all around the world and miss people, but don't cry. I really wouldn't be sad if I knew they were experiencing eternal bliss in heaven. Maybe I'd cry out of jealousy perhaps.
Do you think you feel this way because of religion's tentacles?
Hey, Smellyman, I know that what I've been saying here probably hasn't gotten much traction and I understand that it's a big jump for people who don't believe.. But you can start on your eternal bliss before you even die, if you put your faith in our eternal Father. It's very liberating to know that your loved ones that have passed on are with the Lord and not out here in a hole in the ground. Your documentation for that would be Ecclesiastes chapter 12. But again it's up to each individual. I am not trying to force it on you. Have a good Sunday.
So I guess everyone who rely only on facts and logic thinks there are no real meaning with life. That this is all a coincidence that we are here because of different chain reactions happening for no real reason at all. Almost like we would be only very advanced robots with no souls.
It makes us realize how precious life is. All life. This life has incredible meaning.
Why do those who believe in heaven get so sad when people die? Deep down they know.
I honestly don;t know what I believe.
I've lived all around the world and miss people, but don't cry. I really wouldn't be sad if I knew they were experiencing eternal bliss in heaven. Maybe I'd cry out of jealousy perhaps.
Do you think you feel this way because of religion's tentacles?
Hey, Smellyman, I know that what I've been saying here probably hasn't gotten much traction and I understand that it's a big jump for people who don't believe.. But you can start on your eternal bliss before you even die, if you put your faith in our eternal Father. It's very liberating to know that your loved ones that have passed on are with the Lord and not out here in a hole in the ground. Your documentation for that would be Ecclesiastes chapter 12. But again it's up to each individual. I am not trying to force it on you. Have a good Sunday.
So I guess everyone who rely only on facts and logic thinks there are no real meaning with life. That this is all a coincidence that we are here because of different chain reactions happening for no real reason at all. Almost like we would be only very advanced robots with no souls.
It makes us realize how precious life is. All life. This life has incredible meaning.
Why do those who believe in heaven get so sad when people die? Deep down they know.
I honestly don;t know what I believe.
I've lived all around the world and miss people, but don't cry. I really wouldn't be sad if I knew they were experiencing eternal bliss in heaven. Maybe I'd cry out of jealousy perhaps.
Do you think you feel this way because of religion's tentacles?
Hey, Smellyman, I know that what I've been saying here probably hasn't gotten much traction and I understand that it's a big jump for people who don't believe.. But you can start on your eternal bliss before you even die, if you put your faith in our eternal Father. It's very liberating to know that your loved ones that have passed on are with the Lord and not out here in a hole in the ground. Your documentation for that would be Ecclesiastes chapter 12. But again it's up to each individual. I am not trying to force it on you. Have a good Sunday.
So I guess everyone who rely only on facts and logic thinks there are no real meaning with life. That this is all a coincidence that we are here because of different chain reactions happening for no real reason at all. Almost like we would be only very advanced robots with no souls.
It makes us realize how precious life is. All life. This life has incredible meaning.
Why do those who believe in heaven get so sad when people die? Deep down they know.
I honestly don;t know what I believe.
I've lived all around the world and miss people, but don't cry. I really wouldn't be sad if I knew they were experiencing eternal bliss in heaven. Maybe I'd cry out of jealousy perhaps.
Do you think you feel this way because of religion's tentacles?
Hey, Smellyman, I know that what I've been saying here probably hasn't gotten much traction and I understand that it's a big jump for people who don't believe.. But you can start on your eternal bliss before you even die, if you put your faith in our eternal Father. It's very liberating to know that your loved ones that have passed on are with the Lord and not out here in a hole in the ground. Your documentation for that would be Ecclesiastes chapter 12. But again it's up to each individual. I am not trying to force it on you. Have a good Sunday.
Luckily you can't force mythology on me
Mythology? I don't know anything about mythology.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,727
Just got home from a memorial. Gawd, how I hate those things, but she was a nice lady and I wanted to show my respects. The emphasis on "God" a"nd going to heaven" was huge. I really felt badly for all these poor souls who honestly believe there is a physical place called "heaven" ("She will be there organizing and arranging things so well like she did here." Oh, really?).
My own belief is that heaven is in the hearts and minds of those who loved the ones now departed. We carry them with us in spirit and, if of the same blood, in our bodies as well. It is good to speak of them because when the last person utters their name, they are likely forgotten. And yet even then, their energy continues to expand ever-outward into the universe and, thus, they never die.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Just got home from a memorial. Gawd, how I hate those things, but she was a nice lady and I wanted to show my respects. The emphasis on "God" a"nd going to heaven" was huge. I really felt badly for all these poor souls who honestly believe there is a physical place called "heaven" ("She will be there organizing and arranging things so well like she did here." Oh, really?).
My own belief is that heaven is in the hearts and minds of those who loved the ones now departed. We carry them with us in spirit and, if of the same blood, in our bodies as well. It is good to speak of them because when the last person utters their name, they are likely forgotten. And yet even then, their energy continues to expand ever-outward into the universe and, thus, they never die.
Sounds nice and poetic what you are saying. Sometimes I think about how everyone leaves their own footprint. Everything we do effects something and that butterfly effect is kind of interesting to think about. The people at the memorial seemed from what I read to find comfort in their beliefs, it sounded sweet I think.
Yeah, it's always funny when Christians make fun of Mormons thinking they are crazy especially since it is so new yet they believe in something old. Just weird to me.
All religions are just a different form of crazy to me.
I actually respect the Jehovah's Witness and Mormon movements more than christianity. At least they believe enough to go door to door to spread the word.
But do they really believe more than adherents other sects? I doubt that. It's just a feature of how they express that. Some religions take pride in the fact that they don't proselytize in this manner, and personally I see that as more respectful.
It's actually because they have different dogma about that. The JoHos are specifically obligated to spread the word because they are specifically required to by God in order to follow in the footsteps of Jesus. Their own salvation literally depends on them doing this. They don't just do it out of the goodness of their hearts, they do it because they are scared they won't go to Heaven if they don't do it. The ironic part is that they also think Heaven has a maximum capacity of 144,000 souls. So the strength of their faith really has nothing to do with it, unless you assume that the strength of faith is reliant on how kooky their beliefs are... which might actually make a lot of sense, lol.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I am reading a book about how the brain works and a bit in it said that people who believe in a God release all the lovely happy chemicals when they think about their maker - like the same thing for people in love. So as well as missing out on potential after life I am missing out on all the brain highs for my 'evil' non-believing ways.
I am reading a book about how the brain works and a bit in it said that people who believe in a God release all the lovely happy chemicals when they think about their maker - like the same thing for people in love. So as well as missing out on potential after life I am missing out on all the brain highs for my 'evil' non-believing ways.
^^^ Is that 144000 thing real? and if so, how do they know how many are currently up there residing so they can stop worshipping?
It is real. If memory serves, they don't know if Heaven is full or not, but I think they believe it's not so they all still have a reason to keep trying, lol. It's actually a very manipulative little bit of dogma. I mean, only those who are extremely worthy get to go to Heaven, so I guess they believe that no more than 144,000 people who ever existed are THAT worthy. But then they also think that everyone else who is a good believer, just not quite AS good, will actually lie in their graves until Jesus comes along and resurrects their (rotting??) corpses to live in some kind of eternal paradise on Earth. I suppose they mean that will happen after the Rapture. And all us Heathens will be doomed to eternal damnation, obviously.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Comments
I must say this has been quite a read. As a human being reading this I am so lucky to even have been born. There are infinite amounts out there that could have been created but never will be and will never know a thing called life. Bring on the humans! My god some people have a dismal outlook.
Spock out.
Why do those who believe in heaven get so sad when people die? Deep down they know.
It's very normal to get sad when someone is not with us anymore.
I always cry like crazy at funerals it's like I can't stop it.
Anyway I think that truly unselfish acts is at least a little "proof" that we are more than highly advanced robots of flesh and blood.
it seems to me that evolution produces more autonomous beings than creationism.
I honestly don;t know what I believe. I was raised Catholic but haven't been to church in many, many years. I generally dislike organized religion and I don't really believe in their versions of God. But, for some reason I do think there is something more...just don't know if that is due to my upbringing and all your hear throughout life...or if I just want there to be more...or if I really think there is something more.
And it depends on the situation. If I'm listening to someone talk about their religion like they are obviously correct and I just haven't been enlightened yet, I get more bitter about it and tend to believe less in a God. If I listen to an agnostic talk about how stupid it is to believe in God and there is no proof, I tend to believe in a God more. Perhaps I'm just a contrarian, but really I think I just don;t know and those that claim to 100% know bother me.
It's easy to say those things and have that outlook when you've never known true hunger.
Life is not always a gift, for half the world it's a terrible burden.
"Bring on the humans!" is just a guarantee that more will suffer in ways we can't even perceive.
It was said earlier in this thread. There are many religions with many gods. You don't believe in all of the possible gods right? I just choose to believe in one less god than you.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Not sure if that was poking fun or for real. All in good fun for sure. Certainly not true, reality and facts can be joyful. If I get a raise, it's a fact, and it makes me joyful.
So many people live life in a re-active state, constantly reacting to what happened, who called, the weather, the bible, people at your door, etc...everything. If life is all reactive then when does free will come in. I am reactive at times, there are times when it is just unavoidable.
My hubby sees the JW coming to the door, he says draw the shades and don't answer the door. I go to the door and step onto the walk way and greet them , ask them how they are doing, tell them to make it a great day. They want to tell me their thoughts, I'll listen. Maybe one word or facial expression will stick with me and follow me onto another conversation. We all interact and we all make the world go around.
Not sure what happened, when or why but all these labels and judgements have overcome society. People gotta be this or that, why not just be people, humans, we have feelings, shortcomings, assets. Most people just need food, shelter and love.
For anyone that believes their life is miniscual in the scope of the world and time in general, no matter how small we feel our contribution to society is, it is not. Each and everyone of us matter, our lives and how we live them will affect generations to come, this I am convinced. I've seen too many insignificant events happen that had a significant affect later on.
just chiming in.... on the 3rd day of the 50th year of my life.
Cheers!!
New Orleans LA 7/4/95 reschedule 9/17/95
Chicago IL 1998, 10/9/00, 06/18/03, 05/16/06, 05/17/06
08/23/09, 08/24/09, Lolla 08/05/07
Champaign IL 4/23/03
Grand Rapids MI VFC 10/03/04
Grand Rapids MI 19May06
Noblesville IN 05/07/10 Cleveland OH 05/09/10
PJ 20 2011
Baltimore MD, Charlottesville VA, Seattle WA 2013
St. Louis MO, Milwaukee WI 2014
Tampa FL, Chicago IL, Lexington KY 2016
Missoula MT 2018
For I desire mercy,
(which is Grace - LOVE)
And not sacrifice; and gaining The knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.
He created us because He wanted to be loved. But no matter how powerful or all knowing that He is, love cannot be forced. That's why he gave us free will, because without free will, we would be essentially robots. In order for love to be genuine it has to originate from within each entity. Or we would all be like this.
Not much satisfaction in that.
I totally agree that many people are overly re-active. I think all of us are over-reactive at times and instead, it's better as much as possible to think critically and be skeptical of what we hear and to be slower to react. Hopefully we all learn to do this as a part of aging and growing more wise. Me, I've had to work at it.
Yes, labels and judgements- another topic worthy of consideration. Labels, I especially problematic. Judgements- they are best made very judiciously!
Congratulations on entering your 50's. A cousin of mine once told me one's 50 is the best decade of life (if you are in good health anyway) because you have gained much in knowledge and wisdom and still have the energy to use those to good advantage. I'm trying to make my 6th decade work that way too, but it's not as easy.
My own belief is that heaven is in the hearts and minds of those who loved the ones now departed. We carry them with us in spirit and, if of the same blood, in our bodies as well. It is good to speak of them because when the last person utters their name, they are likely forgotten. And yet even then, their energy continues to expand ever-outward into the universe and, thus, they never die.
The people at the memorial seemed from what I read to find comfort in their beliefs, it sounded sweet I think.
Is that 144000 thing real? and if so, how do they know how many are currently up there residing so they can stop worshipping?
So as well as missing out on potential after life I am missing out on all the brain highs for my 'evil' non-believing ways.
This is funny on so many levels.
That is what they think happens after it's full?
I just can't.........
It is and that's what going to Walmart on Black Friday is for. Practice for getting into heaven.