Kamala Harris VEEP Pick

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  • curmudgeoness
    curmudgeoness Brigadoon, foodie capital Posts: 4,130
    Josh Shapiro
    JeBurkhardt said:
    njhaley1 said:
    Gern Blansten said:
    I get the idea of shifting the cost of meals and books, etc., to the students. But the end result is that if the parents do not pay then the students are the ones who suffer.

    If those costs were spread out amongst everyone (via real estate tax) it would be a minimal cost per property owner and solve a lot of problems.

    I always thought it was a stupid idea to give students supply lists as well. How fucking stupid is it for a school corporation that can buy decent school supplies IN BULK at much lower cost then sending thousands of kids out to Target, WalMart, etc., with lists to buy shitty supplies? We always ended up buying the cheapest pencils, pens, folders, etc. 

    Increase my real estate tax $10/year and take care of all that shit internally for fucks sake.
    We have that here as well. The problem is that about half the area are retired, half of the rest are young and conservative. We couldn't even pass a bill to increase first responder pay, that's how dyed in the wool some people are. 
    It ticks me off when I hear (quite often) people say they shouldn't have to pay taxes for school services because their kids are all grown up and are no longer part of the school system. Listen, when your kids were in school, there were people who no longer had kids in school paying to ensure that your kids got a quality education. Now it is your turn.   

    I homeschooled my kids. I still paid my taxes even though the school district refused -- yes, refused -- to educate my kids. One would think that the benefits of good public schools would be obvious to everyone, not just those who use them. I think that, once again, it comes down to selfishness: I'm only concerned with what's in it for me; I want what's mine, and if I can get even more than my fair share, that's great, and to hell with everyone else. That's... not how society works. 
    Again, I'm not a progressive, or a socialist, but why do we live in social groups if not to protect the young, the sick, and the elderly? 

    All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
  • curmudgeoness
    curmudgeoness Brigadoon, foodie capital Posts: 4,130
    Josh Shapiro
    OnWis97 said:
    JeBurkhardt said:
    njhaley1 said:
    Gern Blansten said:
    I get the idea of shifting the cost of meals and books, etc., to the students. But the end result is that if the parents do not pay then the students are the ones who suffer.

    If those costs were spread out amongst everyone (via real estate tax) it would be a minimal cost per property owner and solve a lot of problems.

    I always thought it was a stupid idea to give students supply lists as well. How fucking stupid is it for a school corporation that can buy decent school supplies IN BULK at much lower cost then sending thousands of kids out to Target, WalMart, etc., with lists to buy shitty supplies? We always ended up buying the cheapest pencils, pens, folders, etc. 

    Increase my real estate tax $10/year and take care of all that shit internally for fucks sake.
    We have that here as well. The problem is that about half the area are retired, half of the rest are young and conservative. We couldn't even pass a bill to increase first responder pay, that's how dyed in the wool some people are. 
    It ticks me off when I hear (quite often) people say they shouldn't have to pay taxes for school services because their kids are all grown up and are no longer part of the school system. Listen, when your kids were in school, there were people who no longer had kids in school paying to ensure that your kids got a quality education. Now it is your turn.   
    I never had kids...give me my money back!

    (Kidding, of course)

    You kid, but I knew someone who filed fraudulent claims of workplace injury to get larger Social Security payments (disclaimer: I have no experience with Social Security, workers' comp, etc. so it's possible that I've mislabeled things). They then showed others, who had also sustained injuries in accidents unrelated to their jobs, how to do the same thing. Their justification: "That's MY money, and I want it back!" I think it's more likely that that was my money, honestly.
    All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,855
    Josh Shapiro
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    In Sweden you don't pay for the books or for the lunches

    It's Tim Walz...


    Yes you do, just a different way.  Always find it weird when people think they are getting stuff like this for free.  Well, maybe YOU are getting something for free, but only cause someone else is paying it.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,525
    edited August 2024
    Tim Waltz
    cincybearcat said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    In Sweden you don't pay for the books or for the lunches

    It's Tim Walz...


    Yes you do, just a different way.  Always find it weird when people think they are getting stuff like this for free.  Well, maybe YOU are getting something for free, but only cause someone else is paying it.
    Always find it weird when people don't realize that using free in this context is a common and standard shorthand, and people are in fact fully aware that it is being paid for by taxes.

    But sure, I can change how I express myself :)


    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Johnny Abruzzo
    Johnny Abruzzo Philly Posts: 12,422
    Mark Kelly
    I wonder if the Swedish really do pay higher taxes than us. When you add in local, state, sales, property, gas, don't know what else I'm forgetting.
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  • Tim Simmons
    Tim Simmons Posts: 9,852
    Josh Shapiro
    https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/highest-taxed-countries
  • Tim Simmons
    Tim Simmons Posts: 9,852
    edited August 2024
    Josh Shapiro
    My kids go to private school,  but I have zero problem paying taxes that fund the local public schools. In fact I advocate for expansion of those schools. Especially as the town I’m in is building more affordable housing. All kids deserve an education and a better education is a benefit to society. Who knows what those kids may go on to do. Start a business, cure a disease. But we’ll all benefit. A rising tide raises all ships, right? 
    Post edited by Tim Simmons on
  • JeBurkhardt
    JeBurkhardt Posts: 5,337
    Tim Simmons said:
    My kids go to private school,  but I have zero problem paying taxes that fund the local public schools. In fact I advocate for expansion of those schools. Especially as the town I’m in is building more affordable housing. All kids deserve an education and a better education is a benefit to society. Who knows what those kids may go on to do. Start a business, cute a disease. But we’ll all benefit. A rising tide lieges all ships, right? 
    I applaud you for this mindset, I wish more people felt this way. 
  • JeBurkhardt
    JeBurkhardt Posts: 5,337
    curmudgeoness said:
    JeBurkhardt said:
    njhaley1 said:
    Gern Blansten said:
    I get the idea of shifting the cost of meals and books, etc., to the students. But the end result is that if the parents do not pay then the students are the ones who suffer.

    If those costs were spread out amongst everyone (via real estate tax) it would be a minimal cost per property owner and solve a lot of problems.

    I always thought it was a stupid idea to give students supply lists as well. How fucking stupid is it for a school corporation that can buy decent school supplies IN BULK at much lower cost then sending thousands of kids out to Target, WalMart, etc., with lists to buy shitty supplies? We always ended up buying the cheapest pencils, pens, folders, etc. 

    Increase my real estate tax $10/year and take care of all that shit internally for fucks sake.
    We have that here as well. The problem is that about half the area are retired, half of the rest are young and conservative. We couldn't even pass a bill to increase first responder pay, that's how dyed in the wool some people are. 
    It ticks me off when I hear (quite often) people say they shouldn't have to pay taxes for school services because their kids are all grown up and are no longer part of the school system. Listen, when your kids were in school, there were people who no longer had kids in school paying to ensure that your kids got a quality education. Now it is your turn.   

    I homeschooled my kids. I still paid my taxes even though the school district refused -- yes, refused -- to educate my kids. One would think that the benefits of good public schools would be obvious to everyone, not just those who use them. I think that, once again, it comes down to selfishness: I'm only concerned with what's in it for me; I want what's mine, and if I can get even more than my fair share, that's great, and to hell with everyone else. That's... not how society works. 
    Again, I'm not a progressive, or a socialist, but why do we live in social groups if not to protect the young, the sick, and the elderly? 

    It seems like empathy and caring for people has been generally pushed to the side in today's reality. You still see it in small doses, but it is not universal by any means. 
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,525
    edited August 2024
    Tim Waltz
    If you can't see why you should pay for an educated population benefitting society,

    Than why should you pay for a bridge or the railway in parts of the country you won't visit?
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Merkin Baller
    Merkin Baller Posts: 12,818
    Tim Simmons said:
    My kids go to private school,  but I have zero problem paying taxes that fund the local public schools. In fact I advocate for expansion of those schools. Especially as the town I’m in is building more affordable housing. All kids deserve an education and a better education is a benefit to society. Who knows what those kids may go on to do. Start a business, cute a disease. But we’ll all benefit. A rising tide lieges all ships, right? 
    I have no kids and feel the same way. 

    If we aren’t investing in the education (and health) of our citizenry, we’re really just a shithole country. 
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,556

    Socrates believed that knowledge was one of the important components of being a good, ethical citizen, and that ignorance was often the cause of unethical actions.

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  • teskeinc
    teskeinc Posts: 1,784
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    If you can't see why you should pay for an educated population benefitting society,

    Than why should you pay for a bridge or the railway in parts of the country you won't visit?
    Most people don’t have a problem paying, it’s the lack of trust and competence of the government that is the issue. The government wants more of our money for everything. 

    The US used to be #1 in education. Now we are 17 or 18 and falling fast. But yeah just keep throwing more money to something to do the same things but only getting worse.
  • Tim Simmons
    Tim Simmons Posts: 9,852
    Josh Shapiro
    Well if we shut down the Dept of Education like Trump wants, things will certainly improve. 
  • Tim Simmons
    Tim Simmons Posts: 9,852
    Josh Shapiro
    teskeinc said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    If you can't see why you should pay for an educated population benefitting society,

    Than why should you pay for a bridge or the railway in parts of the country you won't visit?
    Most people don’t have a problem paying, it’s the lack of trust and competence of the government that is the issue. The government wants more of our money for everything. 

    The US used to be #1 in education. Now we are 17 or 18 and falling fast. But yeah just keep throwing more money to something to do the same things but only getting worse.

    also, pretty interesting that the countries ranked higher are more socialized countries. 
  • Gern Blansten
    Gern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 22,361
    Josh Shapiro
    teskeinc said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    If you can't see why you should pay for an educated population benefitting society,

    Than why should you pay for a bridge or the railway in parts of the country you won't visit?
    Most people don’t have a problem paying, it’s the lack of trust and competence of the government that is the issue. The government wants more of our money for everything. 

    The US used to be #1 in education. Now we are 17 or 18 and falling fast. But yeah just keep throwing more money to something to do the same things but only getting worse.
    We have declined because funding has declined. There is a direct correlation. 
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

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  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,525
    edited August 2024
    Tim Waltz
    Tim Simmons said:
    teskeinc said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    If you can't see why you should pay for an educated population benefitting society,

    Than why should you pay for a bridge or the railway in parts of the country you won't visit?
    Most people don’t have a problem paying, it’s the lack of trust and competence of the government that is the issue. The government wants more of our money for everything. 

    The US used to be #1 in education. Now we are 17 or 18 and falling fast. But yeah just keep throwing more money to something to do the same things but only getting worse.

    also, pretty interesting that the countries ranked higher are more socialized countries. 
    I don’t know what the criteria of ranking is here, and Sweden is all in all a pretty damn good country you should strive to be closer as - but if you count ”results” in school we are far from number 1 and are having our own issues. Just being honest. Finland is often seen over here as an example of the best in the biz
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Tim Simmons
    Tim Simmons Posts: 9,852
    Josh Shapiro

    US News’s main thing is pretty much ranking shit. 

    I’m sure there are different metrics depending on who’s looking into it. TBH, if the US is in the top 20 I’m fine. I think dialing into local education issues trying to fix problems is a bigger concern. But for the most part I think the Us educational system is fine. There is waste here and there and there are holes that need funding here and there too. Picking them off locally is the way to go. I don’t know of a big sweeping change that’s going to make everything perfect for always. Certainly eliminating the DOE is not it. 
  • JeBurkhardt
    JeBurkhardt Posts: 5,337
    edited August 2024
    Tim Simmons said:
    Well if we shut down the Dept of Education like Trump wants, things will certainly improve. 
    THIS! Having no oversite of the State's education requirements will only expand the inequity in the quality of education from State to State. The removal of Federal guidelines for special education standards will have a huge impact on the quality of education those students receive. 
    Post edited by JeBurkhardt on
  • teskeinc
    teskeinc Posts: 1,784
    Tim Simmons said:

    US News’s main thing is pretty much ranking shit. 

    I’m sure there are different metrics depending on who’s looking into it. TBH, if the US is in the top 20 I’m fine. I think dialing into local education issues trying to fix problems is a bigger concern. But for the most part I think the Us educational system is fine. There is waste here and there and there are holes that need funding here and there too. Picking them off locally is the way to go. I don’t know of a big sweeping change that’s going to make everything perfect for always. Certainly eliminating the DOE is not it. 
    Charter schools and magnet schools have made things better. Class sizes are smaller and it’s generally kids that want to be there. Down side is parents are responsible for dropping off and picking up. At least for my kid anyway. I was lucky my kid won a lottery before kindergarten. 

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