Guns.

Go Beavers said:

seanwon said:

Go Beavers said:

seanwon said:

Go Beavers said:

seanwon said:

Totally agree it was drug related. But I was kind of mocked about how likely a home invasion actually is, so I promptly provided 3 examples of it happening within 15 minutes of where I live.  I'm all for banning Assault Rifles. Other than that, you can pass all the laws you want, it isn't going to stop gun crime. Taking guns away from people like me isn't going to stop gun crime.  Guns have been here for a long time. Mass shootings, for the most part, are somewhat recent in our history, the last 20-30 years. We need to understand the root cause of why it's happening, and deal with the root cause. Not ban the instruments.  We don't ban cars because some people drink and drive.  We force them into court ordered rehab, and take away their driving license.

The root cause is easy access to guns. The root cause of vehicle deaths is easy access to cars. Both have minimal requirements to use and our culture is lax regarding being responsible with them

    Totally agree about easy access. The problem is that we have had drunk drivers as long as we have had easy access to cars.  Mass shootings haven't been around (mostly) since guns have been easily accessible.  They have been increasingly happening the past 20-25 years.  The guns haven't changed, so what has?  Seems pretty obvious to me.  Thankfully, it has inadvertently already been posted here for me.

tempo_n_groove said:

brianlux said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Its a law in other countries to be armed.  Switzerland is one of them.  They are a very happy country though so thats a bad example...

There is a big difference to be factored in, however.  Most Swiss citizens are well educated, well trained, and intelligent. 

oh well aware.  That is why I added the "happy" part.

Aha!  So guns aren't a problem there because...the people are different.  Exactly.  The past 30 years we have seen a degradation of society and the family unit.  When I grew up those of us who had guns were absolutely well educated and trained on their proper use and safety. And certainly more emotionally intelligent.  Now children are handled with soft white gloves, much like an antique dealer might wear. They need participation trophies, so no one gets their feelings hurt. They are told they are special (they aren't), they can do anything they want in life (they can't). Being raised by daycares and schools because both parents have to work to support a family now.  If they get in trouble at school, it's the teacher's fault.  No accountability, no responsibility. And the number of kids being raised with no strong father figure has been increasing for a long time. 

"We know the statistics — that children who grow up without a father are five times more likely to live in poverty and commit crime; nine times more likely to drop out of schools and 20 times more likely to end up in prison. They are more likely to have behavioral problems, or run away from home or become teenage parents themselves. And the foundations of our community are weaker because of it."  - Barack Obama

Your second paragraph is a theory with no validity, and the number of guns in the US has easily more than doubled in the last 30 years. 

Absolutely, I'm not here to have a battle of citations.  I'm here for people's opinions based on experiences and observations.

brianlux said:

Go Beavers said:

Tony1423 said:

Most people who own a gun, or multiple guns, don’t ‘live in fear’…. We don’t think about shooting up schools, grocery stores, movie theaters etc…. In fact, those thoughts don’t enter into too many people’s minds at all.  Gun owner or not.  

To lawfully own and carry a gun for the protection of yourself and loved ones should not be viewed as a bad thing.  The fact that we live in a world that is becoming more and more unpredictable is what should concern people more.  It may be very unlikely that I will never ‘need’ one of my guns.  I just hope that if that time comes, I am not in a place where they have taken away this fundamental right.  

The fact that anyone around me who is carrying has now put me at a stistcically greater chance of getting shot is a bad things. 

That is a fact.

I'm sure there are a lot of people like Tony who will never go out and start shooting people.  But there are people who lose their shit and do things people who know them say they would never do.  The problem is, I don't know who those people are.  Who can truly know? Who does?

These are just facts.

Can't disagree.  But I guess where we disagree is that I don't think the innocent vast majority should be punished because of the bad seeds. I think we should strive to figure out how to eliminate the bad seeds.

We could do what Western Europe, Canada, and Australia have done to eliminate the bad seeds. 

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

Another white gun nut...

Just a nut.  They come in all shapes and sizes.

nicknyr15 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

Another white gun nut...

Just a nut.  They come in all shapes and sizes.

One side is only interested when they’re white, the other only interested when they’re anything but white. So sad. And I’m not singling out Gern. It’s media coverage in general. Fox won’t go on and on if it’s a white male but will if they’re trans or a minority. It’s all score keeping and finger pointing and it’s fucking gross. People obsessing about what party a fucking 20 year old kid was registered as after he attempted to assassinate a presidential candidate and murdered an innocent attendee,…. yea that’s so important. And it’d be the same if not worse if the attempt was on Biden. Both sides supporters are so far gone… we’re doomed as a WHOLE… social media constantly drenches us with hate filled political talk 24/7. Sorry for the rant I’m just disgusted by everyone. 

Gern Blansten said:

nicknyr15 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

Another white gun nut...

Just a nut.  They come in all shapes and sizes.

One side is only interested when they’re white, the other only interested when they’re anything but white. So sad. And I’m not singling out Gern. It’s media coverage in general. Fox won’t go on and on if it’s a white male but will if they’re trans or a minority. It’s all score keeping and finger pointing and it’s fucking gross. People obsessing about what party a fucking 20 year old kid was registered as after he attempted to assassinate a presidential candidate and murdered an innocent attendee,…. yea that’s so important. And it’d be the same if not worse if the attempt was on Biden. Both sides supporters are so far gone… we’re doomed as a WHOLE… social media constantly drenches us with hate filled political talk 24/7. Sorry for the rant I’m just disgusted by everyone. 

I'm not ONLY interested that they are mostly white. But they are mostly white. One side doesn't like to admit that.

FiveBelow said:

Gern Blansten said:

nicknyr15 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

Another white gun nut...

Just a nut.  They come in all shapes and sizes.

One side is only interested when they’re white, the other only interested when they’re anything but white. So sad. And I’m not singling out Gern. It’s media coverage in general. Fox won’t go on and on if it’s a white male but will if they’re trans or a minority. It’s all score keeping and finger pointing and it’s fucking gross. People obsessing about what party a fucking 20 year old kid was registered as after he attempted to assassinate a presidential candidate and murdered an innocent attendee,…. yea that’s so important. And it’d be the same if not worse if the attempt was on Biden. Both sides supporters are so far gone… we’re doomed as a WHOLE… social media constantly drenches us with hate filled political talk 24/7. Sorry for the rant I’m just disgusted by everyone. 

I'm not ONLY interested that they are mostly white. But they are mostly white. One side doesn't like to admit that.

Question, Gern. Are you referring to gun violence as a whole, or specifically just the gun violence that makes up around 1-3% of the problem (active shooter & AR incidents)? I would define a “gun nut” as ANYONE who uses their gun(s) to target other humans, but I also choose not to follow either political narrative when it comes to the big picture on most issues. Cherry picked data just doesn’t do it for me. The logical approach would be to focus on more than a fraction of the issue, something neither side seems to comprehend, or truly care about. But I'm sure you already know, it's not about a meaningful approach to change, it's about securing votes by any means necessary.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/72/wr/mm7226a9.htm

The right’s approach seems to be

While the left’s seems to be

Neither seem to be honest, or effective.

brianlux said:

*sigh*  Why did I have to go and start this thread?

cblock4life said:

Gern Blansten said:

I am referring to serial killers and mass shooters

Yep.  Black people shoot their own. However, there are not that many black serial and mass killers.