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Guns.

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    lastexitlondonlastexitlondon Posts: 12,962
    I don't see how having a gun then stops someone else with a gun. 
    No guns that rationale can't apply 
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    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 41,127
    We have all the protection we need here at home:

    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    dudemandudeman Posts: 3,019
    brianlux said:
    We have all the protection we need here at home:

    Speaking honestly, probably the most important part of our home security system is not the alarm, locks or my training......it is my dog.

    I don't think that he would attack someone trying to break into my home but he would undoubtedly let me know someone was there.
    If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
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    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 41,127
    dudeman said:
    brianlux said:
    We have all the protection we need here at home:

    Speaking honestly, probably the most important part of our home security system is not the alarm, locks or my training......it is my dog.

    I don't think that he would attack someone trying to break into my home but he would undoubtedly let me know someone was there.

    Yeah, dogs are good that way.  We had a dog for years but after she died, we realized it was just getting too hard to take care of a dog.  Cats are easy- you can leave them for a day or two.  But Annie cat is no watch cat, that's for sure.  All she would do is rub up against the legs of an intruder. 
    Our best protection is knowing our neighbors and we all keep an eye out for each other.  We're lucky that way.  In a lot of neighborhoods, neighbors don't know each other.  I thinks it's always a good idea to establish good relations with neighbors.  If more people did that, they would be more secure.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    seanwonseanwon Posts: 316
    brianlux said:
    We have all the protection we need here at home:

    https://www.troyrecord.com/2011/05/05/michael-mosleys-trial-for-the-murders-of-arica-lynn-schneider-samuel-frost-holley-starts-today/

    How could I forget this one? I literally drove past the crime scene on my way home from work, and it turned out I somewhat knew the killer.  I remember all the police and yellow tape around the place.  A nice little home invasion resulting in a double murder. Less than 15 minutes from my place.  I imagine "Frost" Holley and Arica wished they had some home defense that day.  It went unsolved for years until the killer was arrested for domestic assault and was forced to give a DNA sample (all felons must in NY I believe), and it matched DNA at the crime scene. 

    Michael Mosley, of North Greenbush. You know my hometown and where I reside?  North Greenbush.
    I didn't know him personally, but I immediately recognized him.  He would frequent a tavern that my friends and I attended on football Sundays to watch the games.  This was after the murders, but before he was caught. I remember him sitting close to  our group many times.  Seeing his picture in the paper gave me chills, knowing how close I was to a killer. So, yeah....I am going to keep my guns. They've not been used for anything illegal, and never will be. Unless they sneak out on their own and shoot up a school. 
    1996: 9/29 Randall's Island 2,  10/1 Buffalo                  2000: 8/27 Saratoga Springs
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    tbergstbergs Posts: 9,373
    seanwon said:
    brianlux said:
    We have all the protection we need here at home:

    https://www.troyrecord.com/2011/05/05/michael-mosleys-trial-for-the-murders-of-arica-lynn-schneider-samuel-frost-holley-starts-today/

    How could I forget this one? I literally drove past the crime scene on my way home from work, and it turned out I somewhat knew the killer.  I remember all the police and yellow tape around the place.  A nice little home invasion resulting in a double murder. Less than 15 minutes from my place.  I imagine "Frost" Holley and Arica wished they had some home defense that day.  It went unsolved for years until the killer was arrested for domestic assault and was forced to give a DNA sample (all felons must in NY I believe), and it matched DNA at the crime scene. 

    Michael Mosley, of North Greenbush. You know my hometown and where I reside?  North Greenbush.
    I didn't know him personally, but I immediately recognized him.  He would frequent a tavern that my friends and I attended on football Sundays to watch the games.  This was after the murders, but before he was caught. I remember him sitting close to  our group many times.  Seeing his picture in the paper gave me chills, knowing how close I was to a killer. So, yeah....I am going to keep my guns. They've not been used for anything illegal, and never will be. Unless they sneak out on their own and shoot up a school. 
    This is horrible and also, this was drug related. The male victim was in a gang and a drug dealer. This wasn't a random stranger breaking in and killing unknowing defenseless victims for property. Goes back to my boogeyman comment and the fear people live in. You've got a 27 year old crack dealer living with an naive young 18 year old girl. A drug addict shows up at your apartment who's desperate and in the moment takes a kitchen knife, not something he brought in with him, and slaughters both people over money and drugs. No one deserves to be killed, especially like that, but using this as a reason to be armed is ridiculous, unless you're also a drug dealer or in a gang. 
    It's a hopeless situation...
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    tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 39,564
    You can use any reason you want to be armed.  Its a constitutional right.  You don't have to buy one if you don't want.

    That's my "murica" answer.
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    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 41,127
    You can use any reason you want to be armed.  Its a constitutional right.  You don't have to buy one if you don't want.

    That's my "murica" answer.

    The "constitutional right" argument has, of course, been argued ad infinitum.  I'll just make that observation without going down that rabbit hole except to say it wasn't worded very well for today's world.  Kind of like what my wife and I were saying about how people will argue endlessly about certain verses in the Bible and how to interpret them.  You have to go back to the context of when they were written and also understand the language of the time.  But then, how would the second amendment be re-written today?  Some would argue for complete elimination of fire arms, some would say improve background checks, etc., some would say arm everyone and see who's the last one standing.  I don't see how any of this will ever be resolved.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 39,564
    brianlux said:
    You can use any reason you want to be armed.  Its a constitutional right.  You don't have to buy one if you don't want.

    That's my "murica" answer.

    The "constitutional right" argument has, of course, been argued ad infinitum.  I'll just make that observation without going down that rabbit hole except to say it wasn't worded very well for today's world.  Kind of like what my wife and I were saying about how people will argue endlessly about certain verses in the Bible and how to interpret them.  You have to go back to the context of when they were written and also understand the language of the time.  But then, how would the second amendment be re-written today?  Some would argue for complete elimination of fire arms, some would say improve background checks, etc., some would say arm everyone and see who's the last one standing.  I don't see how any of this will ever be resolved.
    Its a law in other countries to be armed.  Switzerland is one of them.  They are a very happy country though so thats a bad example...
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    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 37,111
    But what about all the children of those “responsible” gun owners?

    Unintentional shootings involving children increased from 340 in 2015 to 411 in 2023 and nearly 1 in 3 unintentional shooters are 5 and under, according to Everytown for Gun Safety.

    And eight children a day are shot and injured or killed unintentionally by an unsecured firearm in the home, according to Brady United Against Gun Violence.

    “Guns are very present in our culture and in our country and in our neighborhoods, and they’re so present, they’re almost omnipresent that we don’t realize one in three Americans has a gun,” said Renee Davidson, the vice president of communications for Brady, who is from the same part of Montgomery County where a 3-year-old was shot in Maryland this week. “We need to act as if those are lethal objects that we need to protect safely, because they are.”

    Crifasi said that in 90 percent of shootings of minors, the gun used comes from the child’s home or a relative of the child. That was the case in Richneck, Va., last year when a 6-year-old shot and injured his elementary school teacher. In a shooting that drew national attention because of the youth of the shooter, the child’s mother, Deja Taylor, was sentenced to two years after pleading guilty to one county of felony child neglect in state court. She was also sentenced to 21 months in federal court after pleading guilty to one count of being an illegal drug user while possessing a firearm and one count of falsely claiming she did not smoke marijuana on the background check form she filled out when she purchased the handgun her son used in the shooting.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2024/06/05/accidental-shootings-children/

    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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    dudemandudeman Posts: 3,019
    But what about all the children of those “responsible” gun owners?

    Unintentional shootings involving children increased from 340 in 2015 to 411 in 2023 and nearly 1 in 3 unintentional shooters are 5 and under, according to Everytown for Gun Safety.

    And eight children a day are shot and injured or killed unintentionally by an unsecured firearm in the home, according to Brady United Against Gun Violence.

    “Guns are very present in our culture and in our country and in our neighborhoods, and they’re so present, they’re almost omnipresent that we don’t realize one in three Americans has a gun,” said Renee Davidson, the vice president of communications for Brady, who is from the same part of Montgomery County where a 3-year-old was shot in Maryland this week. “We need to act as if those are lethal objects that we need to protect safely, because they are.”

    Crifasi said that in 90 percent of shootings of minors, the gun used comes from the child’s home or a relative of the child. That was the case in Richneck, Va., last year when a 6-year-old shot and injured his elementary school teacher. In a shooting that drew national attention because of the youth of the shooter, the child’s mother, Deja Taylor, was sentenced to two years after pleading guilty to one county of felony child neglect in state court. She was also sentenced to 21 months in federal court after pleading guilty to one count of being an illegal drug user while possessing a firearm and one count of falsely claiming she did not smoke marijuana on the background check form she filled out when she purchased the handgun her son used in the shooting.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2024/06/05/accidental-shootings-children/

    That bolded part seems to be at odds with the Everytown stats. If the Brady figure is accurate, that's almost 3,000 annually. 
    If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
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    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 37,111
    dudeman said:
    But what about all the children of those “responsible” gun owners?

    Unintentional shootings involving children increased from 340 in 2015 to 411 in 2023 and nearly 1 in 3 unintentional shooters are 5 and under, according to Everytown for Gun Safety.

    And eight children a day are shot and injured or killed unintentionally by an unsecured firearm in the home, according to Brady United Against Gun Violence.

    “Guns are very present in our culture and in our country and in our neighborhoods, and they’re so present, they’re almost omnipresent that we don’t realize one in three Americans has a gun,” said Renee Davidson, the vice president of communications for Brady, who is from the same part of Montgomery County where a 3-year-old was shot in Maryland this week. “We need to act as if those are lethal objects that we need to protect safely, because they are.”

    Crifasi said that in 90 percent of shootings of minors, the gun used comes from the child’s home or a relative of the child. That was the case in Richneck, Va., last year when a 6-year-old shot and injured his elementary school teacher. In a shooting that drew national attention because of the youth of the shooter, the child’s mother, Deja Taylor, was sentenced to two years after pleading guilty to one county of felony child neglect in state court. She was also sentenced to 21 months in federal court after pleading guilty to one count of being an illegal drug user while possessing a firearm and one count of falsely claiming she did not smoke marijuana on the background check form she filled out when she purchased the handgun her son used in the shooting.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2024/06/05/accidental-shootings-children/

    That bolded part seems to be at odds with the Everytown stats. If the Brady figure is accurate, that's almost 3,000 annually. 
    I’m reading that as two different categories of shootings, children shooting children with an unsecured firearm and children being injured or killed in an unsecured firearm shooting, regardless of the age of the shooter.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 37,111
    If you want to get in the weeds, like it’ll make a difference. Because you know, “responsible” gun owners.

    https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/06/gun-deaths-among-us-kids-rose-50-percent-in-two-years/
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 41,127
    edited June 11
    brianlux said:
    You can use any reason you want to be armed.  Its a constitutional right.  You don't have to buy one if you don't want.

    That's my "murica" answer.

    The "constitutional right" argument has, of course, been argued ad infinitum.  I'll just make that observation without going down that rabbit hole except to say it wasn't worded very well for today's world.  Kind of like what my wife and I were saying about how people will argue endlessly about certain verses in the Bible and how to interpret them.  You have to go back to the context of when they were written and also understand the language of the time.  But then, how would the second amendment be re-written today?  Some would argue for complete elimination of fire arms, some would say improve background checks, etc., some would say arm everyone and see who's the last one standing.  I don't see how any of this will ever be resolved.
    Its a law in other countries to be armed.  Switzerland is one of them.  They are a very happy country though so thats a bad example...

    There is a big difference to be factored in, however.  Most Swiss citizens are well educated, well trained, and intelligent. 
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 39,564
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    You can use any reason you want to be armed.  Its a constitutional right.  You don't have to buy one if you don't want.

    That's my "murica" answer.

    The "constitutional right" argument has, of course, been argued ad infinitum.  I'll just make that observation without going down that rabbit hole except to say it wasn't worded very well for today's world.  Kind of like what my wife and I were saying about how people will argue endlessly about certain verses in the Bible and how to interpret them.  You have to go back to the context of when they were written and also understand the language of the time.  But then, how would the second amendment be re-written today?  Some would argue for complete elimination of fire arms, some would say improve background checks, etc., some would say arm everyone and see who's the last one standing.  I don't see how any of this will ever be resolved.
    Its a law in other countries to be armed.  Switzerland is one of them.  They are a very happy country though so thats a bad example...

    There is a big difference to be factored in, however.  Most Swiss citizens are well educated, well trained, and intelligent. 

    oh well aware.  That is why I added the "happy" part.
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    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 37,111
    Just in time for the GQP Klan rally in that “terrible” city. Does Rottenhouse have a speaking spot?

    Supreme Court strikes down federal ban on bump stock devices

    The case focused on whether bump stocks qualify as machine guns under a law that bars civilians from owning such weapons.

    A divided Supreme Court on Friday struck down a federal ban on bump stock devices that allow semiautomatic rifles to fire hundreds of bullets a minute, upending one of the few recent efforts by the federal government to address the nation’s epidemic of gun violence.

    The 6-3 ruling continues the conservative majority’s record of limiting gun restrictions, most notably in a landmark 2022 ruling that has made it easier to challenge modern gun control laws.

    In its ruling, the majority said bump stocks do not qualify as machine guns under a 1986 law that barred civilians from owning the weapons. The Trump administration interpreted the law to ban bump stocks in 2018, after a gunman used the devices to open fire on a Las Vegas music festival, ultimately killing 60 people in the deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/06/14/bump-stocks-supreme-court-machine-gun-bruen-cargill/

    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 37,111
    Because you know, your home might be invaded.

    Bump stocks are a piece of molded plastic or metal that replaces the butt of a rifle and the handle closest to the trigger. The piece allows a portion of the gun to slide freely back-and-forth. The recoil from a shot causes the gun to “bump” between the shooter’s shoulder and trigger finger, causing shots to be fired in quick succession.

    Rifles equipped with bump stocks can fire an estimated 400 to 800 bullets per minute, a rate approaching that of automatic weapons.

    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 41,127
    Just in time for the GQP Klan rally in that “terrible” city. Does Rottenhouse have a speaking spot?

    Supreme Court strikes down federal ban on bump stock devices

    The case focused on whether bump stocks qualify as machine guns under a law that bars civilians from owning such weapons.

    A divided Supreme Court on Friday struck down a federal ban on bump stock devices that allow semiautomatic rifles to fire hundreds of bullets a minute, upending one of the few recent efforts by the federal government to address the nation’s epidemic of gun violence.

    The 6-3 ruling continues the conservative majority’s record of limiting gun restrictions, most notably in a landmark 2022 ruling that has made it easier to challenge modern gun control laws.

    In its ruling, the majority said bump stocks do not qualify as machine guns under a 1986 law that barred civilians from owning the weapons. The Trump administration interpreted the law to ban bump stocks in 2018, after a gunman used the devices to open fire on a Las Vegas music festival, ultimately killing 60 people in the deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/06/14/bump-stocks-supreme-court-machine-gun-bruen-cargill/


    Yay!  More opportunities for mass murder in America! 

    Pathetic...
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
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    Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom's Posts: 18,306
    yu cant take muh fredum away you dirty libtard!
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
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    tbergstbergs Posts: 9,373
    The issue here isn't the Supreme Court (for once), it's that Republicans failed to support or enact laws and instead used a work around of just changing the rules that had been left alone for years, which we knew wouldn't pass muster in the courts. And now that it's been 7 years, Republicans won't have any pressure to do anything and nothing will happen (shock!). Fuck those dirty bastards.
    It's a hopeless situation...
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    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 37,111
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 41,127
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    seanwonseanwon Posts: 316
    tbergs said:
    seanwon said:
    brianlux said:
    We have all the protection we need here at home:

    https://www.troyrecord.com/2011/05/05/michael-mosleys-trial-for-the-murders-of-arica-lynn-schneider-samuel-frost-holley-starts-today/

    How could I forget this one? I literally drove past the crime scene on my way home from work, and it turned out I somewhat knew the killer.  I remember all the police and yellow tape around the place.  A nice little home invasion resulting in a double murder. Less than 15 minutes from my place.  I imagine "Frost" Holley and Arica wished they had some home defense that day.  It went unsolved for years until the killer was arrested for domestic assault and was forced to give a DNA sample (all felons must in NY I believe), and it matched DNA at the crime scene. 

    Michael Mosley, of North Greenbush. You know my hometown and where I reside?  North Greenbush.
    I didn't know him personally, but I immediately recognized him.  He would frequent a tavern that my friends and I attended on football Sundays to watch the games.  This was after the murders, but before he was caught. I remember him sitting close to  our group many times.  Seeing his picture in the paper gave me chills, knowing how close I was to a killer. So, yeah....I am going to keep my guns. They've not been used for anything illegal, and never will be. Unless they sneak out on their own and shoot up a school. 
    This is horrible and also, this was drug related. The male victim was in a gang and a drug dealer. This wasn't a random stranger breaking in and killing unknowing defenseless victims for property. Goes back to my boogeyman comment and the fear people live in. You've got a 27 year old crack dealer living with an naive young 18 year old girl. A drug addict shows up at your apartment who's desperate and in the moment takes a kitchen knife, not something he brought in with him, and slaughters both people over money and drugs. No one deserves to be killed, especially like that, but using this as a reason to be armed is ridiculous, unless you're also a drug dealer or in a gang. 
    Totally agree it was drug related. But I was kind of mocked about how likely a home invasion actually is, so I promptly provided 3 examples of it happening within 15 minutes of where I live.  I'm all for banning Assault Rifles. Other than that, you can pass all the laws you want, it isn't going to stop gun crime. Taking guns away from people like me isn't going to stop gun crime.  Guns have been here for a long time. Mass shootings, for the most part, are somewhat recent in our history, the last 20-30 years. We need to understand the root cause of why it's happening, and deal with the root cause. Not ban the instruments.  We don't ban cars because some people drink and drive.  We force them into court ordered rehab, and take away their driving license.
    1996: 9/29 Randall's Island 2,  10/1 Buffalo                  2000: 8/27 Saratoga Springs
    2003: 4/29 Albany,  5/2 Buffalo,  7/9 MSG 2                   2006: 5/12 Albany,  6/3 East Rutherford 2
    2008: 6/27 Hartford                 2009: 10/27 Philadelphia 1              2010: 5/15 Hartford,   5/21 MSG 2
    2013: 10/15 Worcester 1,  10/25 Hartford                       2014: 10/1 Cincinnati
    2016: 5/2 MSG 2,   8/5 Fenway 1,  11/7 Temple of the Dog MSG
    2018: 9/2 Fenway 1
    2020: 3/30 MSG             2022: 9/11 MSG            2023: 9/10 Noblesville
  • Options
    Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 8,761
    seanwon said:
    tbergs said:
    seanwon said:
    brianlux said:
    We have all the protection we need here at home:

    https://www.troyrecord.com/2011/05/05/michael-mosleys-trial-for-the-murders-of-arica-lynn-schneider-samuel-frost-holley-starts-today/

    How could I forget this one? I literally drove past the crime scene on my way home from work, and it turned out I somewhat knew the killer.  I remember all the police and yellow tape around the place.  A nice little home invasion resulting in a double murder. Less than 15 minutes from my place.  I imagine "Frost" Holley and Arica wished they had some home defense that day.  It went unsolved for years until the killer was arrested for domestic assault and was forced to give a DNA sample (all felons must in NY I believe), and it matched DNA at the crime scene. 

    Michael Mosley, of North Greenbush. You know my hometown and where I reside?  North Greenbush.
    I didn't know him personally, but I immediately recognized him.  He would frequent a tavern that my friends and I attended on football Sundays to watch the games.  This was after the murders, but before he was caught. I remember him sitting close to  our group many times.  Seeing his picture in the paper gave me chills, knowing how close I was to a killer. So, yeah....I am going to keep my guns. They've not been used for anything illegal, and never will be. Unless they sneak out on their own and shoot up a school. 
    This is horrible and also, this was drug related. The male victim was in a gang and a drug dealer. This wasn't a random stranger breaking in and killing unknowing defenseless victims for property. Goes back to my boogeyman comment and the fear people live in. You've got a 27 year old crack dealer living with an naive young 18 year old girl. A drug addict shows up at your apartment who's desperate and in the moment takes a kitchen knife, not something he brought in with him, and slaughters both people over money and drugs. No one deserves to be killed, especially like that, but using this as a reason to be armed is ridiculous, unless you're also a drug dealer or in a gang. 
    Totally agree it was drug related. But I was kind of mocked about how likely a home invasion actually is, so I promptly provided 3 examples of it happening within 15 minutes of where I live.  I'm all for banning Assault Rifles. Other than that, you can pass all the laws you want, it isn't going to stop gun crime. Taking guns away from people like me isn't going to stop gun crime.  Guns have been here for a long time. Mass shootings, for the most part, are somewhat recent in our history, the last 20-30 years. We need to understand the root cause of why it's happening, and deal with the root cause. Not ban the instruments.  We don't ban cars because some people drink and drive.  We force them into court ordered rehab, and take away their driving license.
    The root cause is easy access to guns. The root cause of vehicle deaths is easy access to cars. Both have minimal requirements to use and our culture is lax regarding being responsible with them
  • Options
    lastexitlondonlastexitlondon Posts: 12,962
    The misuse of anything is a social issue. 
    Guns are stupid
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    this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
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    tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 39,564
    Just in time for the GQP Klan rally in that “terrible” city. Does Rottenhouse have a speaking spot?

    Supreme Court strikes down federal ban on bump stock devices

    The case focused on whether bump stocks qualify as machine guns under a law that bars civilians from owning such weapons.

    A divided Supreme Court on Friday struck down a federal ban on bump stock devices that allow semiautomatic rifles to fire hundreds of bullets a minute, upending one of the few recent efforts by the federal government to address the nation’s epidemic of gun violence.

    The 6-3 ruling continues the conservative majority’s record of limiting gun restrictions, most notably in a landmark 2022 ruling that has made it easier to challenge modern gun control laws.

    In its ruling, the majority said bump stocks do not qualify as machine guns under a 1986 law that barred civilians from owning the weapons. The Trump administration interpreted the law to ban bump stocks in 2018, after a gunman used the devices to open fire on a Las Vegas music festival, ultimately killing 60 people in the deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/06/14/bump-stocks-supreme-court-machine-gun-bruen-cargill/

    This is something I think should be banned.  There have been many a loophole over the years.  I think a Hellfire trigger was another one.
  • Options
    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 37,111
    edited June 23
    Nah, it’s not the guns or access to guns or anything of the sort. In fact, guns have nothing to do with anything. Kinda like a rock, or baseball bat or any other inanimate object.

    At least 234 mass shootings have taken place in the United States in 2024, according to data from the Gun Violence Archive, which, like CNN, defines a mass shooting as one in which four or more people are shot, excluding the shooter. The country has seen a spate of shootings in the past few weeks as the summer heat has escalated, with 21 mass shootings recorded by the Gun Violence Archivesince last Friday.

    https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/21/us/fordyce-arkansas-shooting/index.html

    “It’s a blessing they are okay,” Brazil said, adding that her parents’ car was shot more than 20 times.

    Never in a million years would I have thought something like this would happen in this small town,” she said. “I mean, everybody knows everybody. This stuff doesn’t happen here.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/06/22/shooting-arkansas-grocery-store-fordyce/

    Post edited by Halifax2TheMax on
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 41,127
    Nah, it’s not the guns or access to guns or anything of the sort. In fact, guns have nothing to do with anything. Kinda like a rock, or baseball bat or any other inanimate object.

    At least 234 mass shootings have taken place in the United States in 2024, according to data from the Gun Violence Archive, which, like CNN, defines a mass shooting as one in which four or more people are shot, excluding the shooter. The country has seen a spate of shootings in the past few weeks as the summer heat has escalated, with 21 mass shootings recorded by the Gun Violence Archivesince last Friday.

    https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/21/us/fordyce-arkansas-shooting/index.html

    and were not even quite half way through the year.  :angry:
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Options
    seanwonseanwon Posts: 316
    seanwon said:
    Totally agree it was drug related. But I was kind of mocked about how likely a home invasion actually is, so I promptly provided 3 examples of it happening within 15 minutes of where I live.  I'm all for banning Assault Rifles. Other than that, you can pass all the laws you want, it isn't going to stop gun crime. Taking guns away from people like me isn't going to stop gun crime.  Guns have been here for a long time. Mass shootings, for the most part, are somewhat recent in our history, the last 20-30 years. We need to understand the root cause of why it's happening, and deal with the root cause. Not ban the instruments.  We don't ban cars because some people drink and drive.  We force them into court ordered rehab, and take away their driving license.
    The root cause is easy access to guns. The root cause of vehicle deaths is easy access to cars. Both have minimal requirements to use and our culture is lax regarding being responsible with them
        Totally agree about easy access. The problem is that we have had drunk drivers as long as we have had easy access to cars.  Mass shootings haven't been around (mostly) since guns have been easily accessible.  They have been increasingly happening the past 20-25 years.  The guns haven't changed, so what has?  Seems pretty obvious to me.  Thankfully, it has inadvertently already been posted here for me.

    brianlux said:

    Its a law in other countries to be armed.  Switzerland is one of them.  They are a very happy country though so thats a bad example...

    There is a big difference to be factored in, however.  Most Swiss citizens are well educated, well trained, and intelligent. 

    oh well aware.  That is why I added the "happy" part.

    Aha!  So guns aren't a problem there because...the people are different.  Exactly.  The past 30 years we have seen a degradation of society and the family unit.  When I grew up those of us who had guns were absolutely well educated and trained on their proper use and safety. And certainly more emotionally intelligent.  Now children are handled with soft white gloves, much like an antique dealer might wear. They need participation trophies, so no one gets their feelings hurt. They are told they are special (they aren't), they can do anything they want in life (they can't). Being raised by daycares and schools because both parents have to work to support a family now.  If they get in trouble at school, it's the teacher's fault.  No accountability, no responsibility. And the number of kids being raised with no strong father figure has been increasing for a long time. 

    "We know the statistics — that children who grow up without a father are five times more likely to live in poverty and commit crime; nine times more likely to drop out of schools and 20 times more likely to end up in prison. They are more likely to have behavioral problems, or run away from home or become teenage parents themselves. And the foundations of our community are weaker because of it."  - Barack Obama

    1996: 9/29 Randall's Island 2,  10/1 Buffalo                  2000: 8/27 Saratoga Springs
    2003: 4/29 Albany,  5/2 Buffalo,  7/9 MSG 2                   2006: 5/12 Albany,  6/3 East Rutherford 2
    2008: 6/27 Hartford                 2009: 10/27 Philadelphia 1              2010: 5/15 Hartford,   5/21 MSG 2
    2013: 10/15 Worcester 1,  10/25 Hartford                       2014: 10/1 Cincinnati
    2016: 5/2 MSG 2,   8/5 Fenway 1,  11/7 Temple of the Dog MSG
    2018: 9/2 Fenway 1
    2020: 3/30 MSG             2022: 9/11 MSG            2023: 9/10 Noblesville
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    VitalogensiaVitalogensia Posts: 1,977
    Coming from a rural area and being around lots of gun owners, as well as military and law enforcement, I agree with your statement that many people are "well educated and trained on their proper use and safety".  I'm however not sure how the rest of your statement relates to mass murderers.  Surely you aren't saying that a rise in "participation trophies" leads to a higher tendency to gun down groups of people, right?  I'd be interested in reading your assessment of the correlation.  
    Virginia Beach 2000; Pittsburgh 2000; Columbus 2003; D.C. 2003; Pittsburgh 2006; Virginia Beach 2008; Cleveland 2010; PJ20 2011; Pittsburgh 2013; Baltimore 2013; Charlottesville 2013; Charlotte 2013; Lincoln 2014; Moline 2014; St. Paul 2014; Greenville 2016; Hampton 2016; Lexington 2016; Wrigley 2016; Prague 2018; Krakow 2018; Berlin 2018; Fenway 2018; Camden 2022; St. Paul 2023
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