Guns.

brianlux · June 2024

lastexitlondon said:

I've more chance of understanding what a gnu is saying than understanding why anyone wants/needs a gun

I probably only know what a gnu is from doing crossword puzzles, lol. They're kinda cool looking though!

seanwon · June 2024

lastexitlondon said:

I've more chance of understanding what a gnu is saying than understanding why anyone wants/needs a gun

Well, let's see. I live in the country. We have bobcats, coyotes, bear, coydogs. I actually had a bear come and rip a birdfeeder off the side of the house. I like to hike in the fields and woods around my place, and to go out in the fields in the middle of the night and look at the stars. Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and have a gun on me in those situations if that is ok with you. I don't like my odds against one of those creatures with my bare hands.
Extra Bonus: I sleep well knowing if I wake up to the sounds of someone breaking into my house, I am ready to defend myself. You city slickers can go ahead and call the police, hide under the bed, and hope they get there in time.

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021252/uploads/editor/68/8y6dyswz82p9.jpg

tbergs · June 2024

seanwon said:

lastexitlondon said:

I've more chance of understanding what a gnu is saying than understanding why anyone wants/needs a gun

Well, let's see. I live in the country. We have bobcats, coyotes, bear, coydogs. I actually had a bear come and rip a birdfeeder off the side of the house. I like to hike in the fields and woods around my place, and to go out in the fields in the middle of the night and look at the stars. Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and have a gun on me in those situations if that is ok with you. I don't like my odds against one of those creatures with my bare hands.
Extra Bonus: I sleep well knowing if I wake up to the sounds of someone breaking into my house, I am ready to defend myself. You city slickers can go ahead and call the police, hide under the bed, and hope they get there in time.

I'd just like to point out that the parachute analogy is one of the worst in favor of guns I've ever seen. Just plain stupid.

Also, it sounds like you live in fear of the world, both natural and human alike. Boogie man is coming for your property in the middle of the night, seems reasonable. You'll shoot them first though so it's all good.

brianlux · June 2024

tbergs said:

seanwon said:

lastexitlondon said:

I've more chance of understanding what a gnu is saying than understanding why anyone wants/needs a gun

Well, let's see. I live in the country. We have bobcats, coyotes, bear, coydogs. I actually had a bear come and rip a birdfeeder off the side of the house. I like to hike in the fields and woods around my place, and to go out in the fields in the middle of the night and look at the stars. Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and have a gun on me in those situations if that is ok with you. I don't like my odds against one of those creatures with my bare hands.
Extra Bonus: I sleep well knowing if I wake up to the sounds of someone breaking into my house, I am ready to defend myself. You city slickers can go ahead and call the police, hide under the bed, and hope they get there in time.

I'd just like to point out that the parachute analogy is one of the worst in favor of guns I've ever seen. Just plain stupid.

Also, it sounds like you live in fear of the world, both natural and human alike. Boogie man is coming for your property in the middle of the night, seems reasonable. You'll shoot them first though so it's all good.

No kidding. I mean, how many of us have had to defend ourselves with a gun in our homes? Seriously! I'm almost 73 years old and I've yet to meet one single person who has had to use a gun to protect their self at home... or anywhere else for that matter. Not one! I haven't. And I've lived in a lot of places including a few rather seedy neighborhoods, both rural and urban, and I've never needed a gun (or anything else) to protect myself. They only shooting I've ever even heard when at home was one time in San Francisco when a domestic fight led to a shooting next door and one time hear when a neighbor blew themself away.

Yeah, it all boils down to fear. What an awful way to see life. Forget that!

dudeman · June 2024

brianlux said:

tbergs said:

seanwon said:

lastexitlondon said:

I've more chance of understanding what a gnu is saying than understanding why anyone wants/needs a gun

Well, let's see. I live in the country. We have bobcats, coyotes, bear, coydogs. I actually had a bear come and rip a birdfeeder off the side of the house. I like to hike in the fields and woods around my place, and to go out in the fields in the middle of the night and look at the stars. Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and have a gun on me in those situations if that is ok with you. I don't like my odds against one of those creatures with my bare hands.
Extra Bonus: I sleep well knowing if I wake up to the sounds of someone breaking into my house, I am ready to defend myself. You city slickers can go ahead and call the police, hide under the bed, and hope they get there in time.

I'd just like to point out that the parachute analogy is one of the worst in favor of guns I've ever seen. Just plain stupid.

Also, it sounds like you live in fear of the world, both natural and human alike. Boogie man is coming for your property in the middle of the night, seems reasonable. You'll shoot them first though so it's all good.

No kidding. I mean, how many of us have had to defend ourselves with a gun in our homes? Seriously! I'm almost 73 years old and I've yet to meet one single person who has had to use a gun to protect their self at home... or anywhere else for that matter. Not one! I haven't. And I've lived in a lot of places including a few rather seedy neighborhoods, both rural and urban, and I've never needed a gun (or anything else) to protect myself. They only shooting I've ever even heard when at home was one time in San Francisco when a domestic fight led to a shooting next door and one time hear when a neighbor blew themself away.
Yeah, it all boils down to fear. What an awful way to see life. Forget that!

I respect that opinion and point of view. I understand that it was formed by your life experience and I am glad that you haven't had to deal with violence in the way that some other people have. You are truly fortunate for that.

In my experience, I have lost a family member to a murderer and I know two people who have used firearms to protect themselves and loved ones from violent criminals.

Those two people were prepared to use that level of force not because they live in fear, but because they understood that the time to learn how to use the metaphorical fire extinguisher was before the kitchen was on fire.

I can't agree with the idea that if someone trains with firearms in the event that they (hopefully never) have to use them in defense of their life is paranoid or living in fear. I have a spare tire and jack in my vehicle but I don't feel like I'm living in fear of getting a flat.

There is a world of difference between paranoia/living in fear and being prepared for dealing with bad situations. We all decide where we land on that scale based on our own life experiences.

lastexitlondon · June 2024

More guns equals more guns

brianlux · June 2024

dudeman said:

brianlux said:

tbergs said:

seanwon said:

lastexitlondon said:

I've more chance of understanding what a gnu is saying than understanding why anyone wants/needs a gun

Well, let's see. I live in the country. We have bobcats, coyotes, bear, coydogs. I actually had a bear come and rip a birdfeeder off the side of the house. I like to hike in the fields and woods around my place, and to go out in the fields in the middle of the night and look at the stars. Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and have a gun on me in those situations if that is ok with you. I don't like my odds against one of those creatures with my bare hands.
Extra Bonus: I sleep well knowing if I wake up to the sounds of someone breaking into my house, I am ready to defend myself. You city slickers can go ahead and call the police, hide under the bed, and hope they get there in time.

I'd just like to point out that the parachute analogy is one of the worst in favor of guns I've ever seen. Just plain stupid.

Also, it sounds like you live in fear of the world, both natural and human alike. Boogie man is coming for your property in the middle of the night, seems reasonable. You'll shoot them first though so it's all good.

No kidding. I mean, how many of us have had to defend ourselves with a gun in our homes? Seriously! I'm almost 73 years old and I've yet to meet one single person who has had to use a gun to protect their self at home... or anywhere else for that matter. Not one! I haven't. And I've lived in a lot of places including a few rather seedy neighborhoods, both rural and urban, and I've never needed a gun (or anything else) to protect myself. They only shooting I've ever even heard when at home was one time in San Francisco when a domestic fight led to a shooting next door and one time hear when a neighbor blew themself away.
Yeah, it all boils down to fear. What an awful way to see life. Forget that!

I respect that opinion and point of view. I understand that it was formed by your life experience and I am glad that you haven't had to deal with violence in the way that some other people have. You are truly fortunate for that.

In my experience, I have lost a family member to a murderer and I know two people who have used firearms to protect themselves and loved ones from violent criminals.

Those two people were prepared to use that level of force not because they live in fear, but because they understood that the time to learn how to use the metaphorical fire extinguisher was before the kitchen was on fire.

I can't agree with the idea that if someone trains with firearms in the event that they (hopefully never) have to use them in defense of their life is paranoid or living in fear. I have a spare tire and jack in my vehicle but I don't feel like I'm living in fear of getting a flat.

There is a world of difference between paranoia/living in fear and being prepared for dealing with bad situations. We all decide where we land on that scale based on our own life experiences.

And given the circumstances, I can understand where you're coming from, Dudeman. I can't say for certain what I would do if I had similar situations that close to me. I did lose a cousin in-law to a knifing outside a bar, but he was jumped and wouldn't have had time to defend himself, armed or not. I also knew a really nice guy who used to come into the bookstore now and then who was shot to death. He worked as a physical trainer, but also moonlighted on occasion as a bouncer down in Sacramento and was shot and killed trying to protect some other people. Again, I'm not sure if his being armed would have made a difference.

I myself have been assaulted twice, once by a mentally ill man who followed me out of a store and asked me why I was following him. HE was behind ME! He came at me with a heavy club and, thankfully I was the faster runner. I suppose if I had a gun I could have shot him. But who wants to go packing every time you go to the store? Even after that having happened to me, I wouldn't.

The other assault happened at night as I was coming out of a gas station/store and a kid came up from behind me and hit me on the back of the head. Some instinct in me led me to pick up may pace ever so slightly and the blow was painful but not injurious. I later learned that this was very likely a kid doing what is called "the knock out game" where the intent is to attack from behind and try to knock out the random victim. People have died that way. I don't go out much at night anymore. The cop I talked to said if it had been him, he would have shot the kid. But imagine being a civilian and shooting the kid. How do you prove what happened? The lengthy trials, the hassle. Best to learn from the experience and don't go to such places at night.

And I should add that I know several people who have guns, some who are very close and important to me and I don't judge them. I also know they are sane, sensible, smart people who can be trusted. The sad truth is, there are just too many people out there who are not well trained both in the use of firearms or in the ability to be clear-headed and make good choices in tough or stressful situations. All of that and background checks and probably even being able to cite good cause might do well as mandatory requirements for firearms ownership. I honestly believe there are just too many guns and too little accountability and proper training.

seanwon · June 2024

dudeman said:

brianlux said:

tbergs said:

seanwon said:

lastexitlondon said:

I've more chance of understanding what a gnu is saying than understanding why anyone wants/needs a gun

Well, let's see. I live in the country. We have bobcats, coyotes, bear, coydogs. I actually had a bear come and rip a birdfeeder off the side of the house. I like to hike in the fields and woods around my place, and to go out in the fields in the middle of the night and look at the stars. Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and have a gun on me in those situations if that is ok with you. I don't like my odds against one of those creatures with my bare hands.
Extra Bonus: I sleep well knowing if I wake up to the sounds of someone breaking into my house, I am ready to defend myself. You city slickers can go ahead and call the police, hide under the bed, and hope they get there in time.

I'd just like to point out that the parachute analogy is one of the worst in favor of guns I've ever seen. Just plain stupid.

Also, it sounds like you live in fear of the world, both natural and human alike. Boogie man is coming for your property in the middle of the night, seems reasonable. You'll shoot them first though so it's all good.

No kidding. I mean, how many of us have had to defend ourselves with a gun in our homes? Seriously! I'm almost 73 years old and I've yet to meet one single person who has had to use a gun to protect their self at home... or anywhere else for that matter. Not one! I haven't. And I've lived in a lot of places including a few rather seedy neighborhoods, both rural and urban, and I've never needed a gun (or anything else) to protect myself. They only shooting I've ever even heard when at home was one time in San Francisco when a domestic fight led to a shooting next door and one time hear when a neighbor blew themself away.
Yeah, it all boils down to fear. What an awful way to see life. Forget that!

I respect that opinion and point of view. I understand that it was formed by your life experience and I am glad that you haven't had to deal with violence in the way that some other people have. You are truly fortunate for that.

In my experience, I have lost a family member to a murderer and I know two people who have used firearms to protect themselves and loved ones from violent criminals.

Those two people were prepared to use that level of force not because they live in fear, but because they understood that the time to learn how to use the metaphorical fire extinguisher was before the kitchen was on fire.

I can't agree with the idea that if someone trains with firearms in the event that they (hopefully never) have to use them in defense of their life is paranoid or living in fear. I have a spare tire and jack in my vehicle but I don't feel like I'm living in fear of getting a flat.

There is a world of difference between paranoia/living in fear and being prepared for dealing with bad situations. We all decide where we land on that scale based on our own life experiences.

Thanks, you get it. A classmate's father was murdered when I was in high school.

Post Intermission: When I was in high school, people drove to school and literally had guns hanging in gun racks on the back window of their pick-ups. Trucks unlocked, ammo in the cab, gun right there on the back window. Never any violence. No school shootings. HHmmmmm. So, in modern times, do we really have a gun problem, or is it something else? I have some thoughts, but you wouldn't like them.

And 10 minutes from my house there was a home invasion about 10 years ago.
EDIT: found some links, I know you guys like your proof...Averill Park, 5 minutes from me. Cohoes, 15 minutes from me.

https://www.news10.com/news/averill-park-women-arrested-after-entering-home-and-destroying-and-stealing-property/

https://www.timesunion.com/local/article/Police-arrest-second-suspect-in-Cohoes-home-2205901.php

This is what the anti-gun nutters don't understand....we don't live in a state of fear. We like to be prepared. I don't wear a seatbelt because I am afraid of being in a car accident...I wear one so I maximize my chances IN CASE I am in one. I don't have health insurance because I'm paranoid about getting sick...I have it IN CASE I get sick.

If I were afraid of the natural world, I wouldn't be in the middle of it half a mile away from any houses in the middle of the night. Most animals are scared of us and will steer clear of us. But there are rare occasions where they don't. Especially if they're rabid. I'm prepared in that event.

And no Brian, I don't live in fear of a home invasion. Odds are it will never happen. But if it does....I'll be prepared. If it ever happens to you, I can assure you...you will know what true fear is then. But don't worry, probably will never happen.

Go Beavers · June 2024

seanwon said:

dudeman said:

brianlux said:

tbergs said:

seanwon said:

lastexitlondon said:

I've more chance of understanding what a gnu is saying than understanding why anyone wants/needs a gun

Well, let's see. I live in the country. We have bobcats, coyotes, bear, coydogs. I actually had a bear come and rip a birdfeeder off the side of the house. I like to hike in the fields and woods around my place, and to go out in the fields in the middle of the night and look at the stars. Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and have a gun on me in those situations if that is ok with you. I don't like my odds against one of those creatures with my bare hands.
Extra Bonus: I sleep well knowing if I wake up to the sounds of someone breaking into my house, I am ready to defend myself. You city slickers can go ahead and call the police, hide under the bed, and hope they get there in time.

I'd just like to point out that the parachute analogy is one of the worst in favor of guns I've ever seen. Just plain stupid.

Also, it sounds like you live in fear of the world, both natural and human alike. Boogie man is coming for your property in the middle of the night, seems reasonable. You'll shoot them first though so it's all good.

No kidding. I mean, how many of us have had to defend ourselves with a gun in our homes? Seriously! I'm almost 73 years old and I've yet to meet one single person who has had to use a gun to protect their self at home... or anywhere else for that matter. Not one! I haven't. And I've lived in a lot of places including a few rather seedy neighborhoods, both rural and urban, and I've never needed a gun (or anything else) to protect myself. They only shooting I've ever even heard when at home was one time in San Francisco when a domestic fight led to a shooting next door and one time hear when a neighbor blew themself away.
Yeah, it all boils down to fear. What an awful way to see life. Forget that!

I respect that opinion and point of view. I understand that it was formed by your life experience and I am glad that you haven't had to deal with violence in the way that some other people have. You are truly fortunate for that.

In my experience, I have lost a family member to a murderer and I know two people who have used firearms to protect themselves and loved ones from violent criminals.

Those two people were prepared to use that level of force not because they live in fear, but because they understood that the time to learn how to use the metaphorical fire extinguisher was before the kitchen was on fire.

I can't agree with the idea that if someone trains with firearms in the event that they (hopefully never) have to use them in defense of their life is paranoid or living in fear. I have a spare tire and jack in my vehicle but I don't feel like I'm living in fear of getting a flat.

There is a world of difference between paranoia/living in fear and being prepared for dealing with bad situations. We all decide where we land on that scale based on our own life experiences.

Thanks, you get it. A classmate's father was murdered when I was in high school.

Post Intermission: When I was in high school, people drove to school and literally had guns hanging in gun racks on the back window of their pick-ups. Trucks unlocked, ammo in the cab, gun right there on the back window. Never any violence. No school shootings. HHmmmmm. So, in modern times, do we really have a gun problem, or is it something else? I have some thoughts, but you wouldn't like them.

And 10 minutes from my house there was a home invasion about 10 years ago. This is what the anti-gun nutters don't understand....we don't live in a state of fear. We like to be prepared. I don't wear a seatbelt because I am afraid of being in a car accident...I wear one so I maximize my chances IN CASE I am in one. I don't have health insurance because I'm paranoid about getting sick...I have it IN CASE I get sick.

If I were afraid of the natural world, I wouldn't be in the middle of it half a mile away from any houses in the middle of the night. Most animals are scared of us and will steer clear of us. But there are rare occasions where they don't. Especially if they're rabid. I'm prepared in that event.

And no Brian, I don't live in fear of a home invasion. Odds are it will never happen. But if it does....I'll be prepared. If it ever happens to you, I can assure you...you will know what true fear is then. But don't worry, probably will never happen.

You may be speaking too much for others here, because there are people who do live in a state of fear so they carry/own guns in an attempt to try and alleviate that. And yes, we do have a gun problem.

brianlux · June 2024

"I think we should arm everyone and see who's the last one standing."

-Chuck Dukowski

"There's more to the picture/ than meets the eye."

-Neil Young

lastexitlondon · June 2024

I don't see how having a gun then stops someone else with a gun.
No guns that rationale can't apply

brianlux · June 2024

We have all the protection we need here at home:

Image: https://i.postimg.cc/QdBsmr4Y/20240606-101754.jpg

dudeman · June 2024

brianlux said:

We have all the protection we need here at home:

Speaking honestly, probably the most important part of our home security system is not the alarm, locks or my training......it is my dog.

I don't think that he would attack someone trying to break into my home but he would undoubtedly let me know someone was there.

brianlux · June 2024

dudeman said:

brianlux said:

We have all the protection we need here at home:

Speaking honestly, probably the most important part of our home security system is not the alarm, locks or my training......it is my dog.

I don't think that he would attack someone trying to break into my home but he would undoubtedly let me know someone was there.

Yeah, dogs are good that way. We had a dog for years but after she died, we realized it was just getting too hard to take care of a dog. Cats are easy- you can leave them for a day or two. But Annie cat is no watch cat, that's for sure. All she would do is rub up against the legs of an intruder.

Our best protection is knowing our neighbors and we all keep an eye out for each other. We're lucky that way. In a lot of neighborhoods, neighbors don't know each other. I thinks it's always a good idea to establish good relations with neighbors. If more people did that, they would be more secure.

seanwon · June 2024

brianlux said:

We have all the protection we need here at home:

https://www.troyrecord.com/2011/05/05/michael-mosleys-trial-for-the-murders-of-arica-lynn-schneider-samuel-frost-holley-starts-today/

How could I forget this one? I literally drove past the crime scene on my way home from work, and it turned out I somewhat knew the killer. I remember all the police and yellow tape around the place. A nice little home invasion resulting in a double murder. Less than 15 minutes from my place. I imagine "Frost" Holley and Arica wished they had some home defense that day. It went unsolved for years until the killer was arrested for domestic assault and was forced to give a DNA sample (all felons must in NY I believe), and it matched DNA at the crime scene.

Michael Mosley, of North Greenbush. You know my hometown and where I reside? North Greenbush.
I didn't know him personally, but I immediately recognized him. He would frequent a tavern that my friends and I attended on football Sundays to watch the games. This was after the murders, but before he was caught. I remember him sitting close to our group many times. Seeing his picture in the paper gave me chills, knowing how close I was to a killer. So, yeah....I am going to keep my guns. They've not been used for anything illegal, and never will be. Unless they sneak out on their own and shoot up a school.

tbergs · June 2024

seanwon said:

brianlux said:

We have all the protection we need here at home:

https://www.troyrecord.com/2011/05/05/michael-mosleys-trial-for-the-murders-of-arica-lynn-schneider-samuel-frost-holley-starts-today/

How could I forget this one? I literally drove past the crime scene on my way home from work, and it turned out I somewhat knew the killer. I remember all the police and yellow tape around the place. A nice little home invasion resulting in a double murder. Less than 15 minutes from my place. I imagine "Frost" Holley and Arica wished they had some home defense that day. It went unsolved for years until the killer was arrested for domestic assault and was forced to give a DNA sample (all felons must in NY I believe), and it matched DNA at the crime scene.

Michael Mosley, of North Greenbush. You know my hometown and where I reside? North Greenbush.
I didn't know him personally, but I immediately recognized him. He would frequent a tavern that my friends and I attended on football Sundays to watch the games. This was after the murders, but before he was caught. I remember him sitting close to our group many times. Seeing his picture in the paper gave me chills, knowing how close I was to a killer. So, yeah....I am going to keep my guns. They've not been used for anything illegal, and never will be. Unless they sneak out on their own and shoot up a school.

This is horrible and also, this was drug related. The male victim was in a gang and a drug dealer. This wasn't a random stranger breaking in and killing unknowing defenseless victims for property. Goes back to my boogeyman comment and the fear people live in. You've got a 27 year old crack dealer living with an naive young 18 year old girl. A drug addict shows up at your apartment who's desperate and in the moment takes a kitchen knife, not something he brought in with him, and slaughters both people over money and drugs. No one deserves to be killed, especially like that, but using this as a reason to be armed is ridiculous, unless you're also a drug dealer or in a gang.

tempo_n_groove · June 2024

You can use any reason you want to be armed. Its a constitutional right. You don't have to buy one if you don't want.

That's my "murica" answer.

brianlux · June 2024

tempo_n_groove said:

You can use any reason you want to be armed. Its a constitutional right. You don't have to buy one if you don't want.

That's my "murica" answer.

The "constitutional right" argument has, of course, been argued ad infinitum. I'll just make that observation without going down that rabbit hole except to say it wasn't worded very well for today's world. Kind of like what my wife and I were saying about how people will argue endlessly about certain verses in the Bible and how to interpret them. You have to go back to the context of when they were written and also understand the language of the time. But then, how would the second amendment be re-written today? Some would argue for complete elimination of fire arms, some would say improve background checks, etc., some would say arm everyone and see who's the last one standing. I don't see how any of this will ever be resolved.

tempo_n_groove · June 2024

brianlux said:

tempo_n_groove said:

You can use any reason you want to be armed. Its a constitutional right. You don't have to buy one if you don't want.

That's my "murica" answer.

The "constitutional right" argument has, of course, been argued ad infinitum. I'll just make that observation without going down that rabbit hole except to say it wasn't worded very well for today's world. Kind of like what my wife and I were saying about how people will argue endlessly about certain verses in the Bible and how to interpret them. You have to go back to the context of when they were written and also understand the language of the time. But then, how would the second amendment be re-written today? Some would argue for complete elimination of fire arms, some would say improve background checks, etc., some would say arm everyone and see who's the last one standing. I don't see how any of this will ever be resolved.

Its a law in other countries to be armed. Switzerland is one of them. They are a very happy country though so thats a bad example...

Halifax2TheMax · June 2024

But what about all the children of those “responsible” gun owners?

Unintentional shootings involving children increased from 340 in 2015 to 411 in 2023 and nearly 1 in 3 unintentional shooters are 5 and under, according to Everytown for Gun Safety.

And eight children a day are shot and injured or killed unintentionally by an unsecured firearm in the home, according to Brady United Against Gun Violence.

“Guns are very present in our culture and in our country and in our neighborhoods, and they’re so present, they’re almost omnipresent that we don’t realize one in three Americans has a gun,” said Renee Davidson, the vice president of communications for Brady, who is from the same part of Montgomery County where a 3-year-old was shot in Maryland this week. “We need to act as if those are lethal objects that we need to protect safely, because they are.”

Crifasi said that in 90 percent of shootings of minors, the gun used comes from the child’s home or a relative of the child. That was the case in Richneck, Va., last year when a 6-year-old shot and injured his elementary school teacher. In a shooting that drew national attention because of the youth of the shooter, the child’s mother, Deja Taylor, was sentenced to two years after pleading guilty to one county of felony child neglect in state court. She was also sentenced to 21 months in federal court after pleading guilty to one count of being an illegal drug user while possessing a firearm and one count of falsely claiming she did not smoke marijuana on the background check form she filled out when she purchased the handgun her son used in the shooting.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2024/06/05/accidental-shootings-children/

Guns.

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