Viruses / Vaccines 2

static111 said:

mrussel1 said:

JB16057 said:

mrussel1 said:

JB16057 said:

mrussel1 said:

JB16057 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

lastexitlondon said:

And as a parent I decide not you. There is a level of responsibility that once you have children you have that non parents will never ever understand or have.

Do you only have a responsibility to your children as a parent or do you also have a responsibility to society as well? Vaccines or otherwise?

Children as a parent comes before society but only parents would know this.....

That's fine,  but don't expect to use all of the benefits of the society in that case. And yes,  I have three kids. 

Where's your outrage about the illegal immigrants sending their kids off to school without their vaccinations? If I don't get to use the benefits of society as an American citizen paying taxes, illegal immigrants shouldn't be getting those benefits either. It's only fair, right?

Where is that a thing? If it's true,  then yes I would be very much against any student going to school without the vaccinations.  Please share. 

https://cbsaustin.com/news/nation-world/controversy-arises-as-new-york-allows-unvaccinated-migrant-children-in-schools-state-attorney-general-letitia-james-influx-measles-chickenpox-tetanus-health-concerns

WASHINGTON (TND) — When returning to the classroom most have to be vaccinated but New York struggling to deal with an influx of migrant children is now allowing them to attend school and they don't need to have their paperwork on vaccinations.

Thanks.  100% they should not be allowed in school until vaccinated.  This jeopardizes the health of the whole community

But American children don't have to be vaccinated to go to school so why should immigrant children?

JB16057 said:

mickeyrat said:

JB16057 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

lastexitlondon said:

And as a parent I decide not you. There is a level of responsibility that once you have children you have that non parents will never ever understand or have.

Do you only have a responsibility to your children as a parent or do you also have a responsibility to society as well? Vaccines or otherwise?

Children as a parent comes before society but only parents would know this.....

ohhh fan fucking tastic!!!!

does this mean ONLY parents should fund s hooks through property taxes then? I want a refund......

Are you going to pay back what was spent on you to go to school as a child then?

Halifax2TheMax said:

mickeyrat said:

JB16057 said:

mickeyrat said:

JB16057 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

lastexitlondon said:

And as a parent I decide not you. There is a level of responsibility that once you have children you have that non parents will never ever understand or have.

Do you only have a responsibility to your children as a parent or do you also have a responsibility to society as well? Vaccines or otherwise?

Children as a parent comes before society but only parents would know this.....

ohhh fan fucking tastic!!!!

does this mean ONLY parents should fund s hooks through property taxes then? I want a refund......

Are you going to pay back what was spent on you to go to school as a child then?

ummm my parents paid property taxes.

What? You didn’t have a job in second grade and pull yerself up by yer bootstraps? Freeloader, eh? Yer what’s wrong with ‘Murica. Go back to where you came from. We can’t afford youse. 

brianlux said:

AW124797 said:

static111 said:

mrussel1 said:

JB16057 said:

mrussel1 said:

JB16057 said:

mrussel1 said:

JB16057 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

lastexitlondon said:

And as a parent I decide not you. There is a level of responsibility that once you have children you have that non parents will never ever understand or have.

Do you only have a responsibility to your children as a parent or do you also have a responsibility to society as well? Vaccines or otherwise?

Children as a parent comes before society but only parents would know this.....

That's fine,  but don't expect to use all of the benefits of the society in that case. And yes,  I have three kids. 

Where's your outrage about the illegal immigrants sending their kids off to school without their vaccinations? If I don't get to use the benefits of society as an American citizen paying taxes, illegal immigrants shouldn't be getting those benefits either. It's only fair, right?

Where is that a thing? If it's true,  then yes I would be very much against any student going to school without the vaccinations.  Please share. 

https://cbsaustin.com/news/nation-world/controversy-arises-as-new-york-allows-unvaccinated-migrant-children-in-schools-state-attorney-general-letitia-james-influx-measles-chickenpox-tetanus-health-concerns

WASHINGTON (TND) — When returning to the classroom most have to be vaccinated but New York struggling to deal with an influx of migrant children is now allowing them to attend school and they don't need to have their paperwork on vaccinations.

Thanks.  100% they should not be allowed in school until vaccinated.  This jeopardizes the health of the whole community

But American children don't have to be vaccinated to go to school so why should immigrant children?

Not true. NY requires vaccinations. 

State or just the city?

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

mrussel1 said:

JB16057 said:

mrussel1 said:

JB16057 said:

mrussel1 said:

JB16057 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

lastexitlondon said:

And as a parent I decide not you. There is a level of responsibility that once you have children you have that non parents will never ever understand or have.

Do you only have a responsibility to your children as a parent or do you also have a responsibility to society as well? Vaccines or otherwise?

Children as a parent comes before society but only parents would know this.....

That's fine,  but don't expect to use all of the benefits of the society in that case. And yes,  I have three kids. 

Where's your outrage about the illegal immigrants sending their kids off to school without their vaccinations? If I don't get to use the benefits of society as an American citizen paying taxes, illegal immigrants shouldn't be getting those benefits either. It's only fair, right?

Where is that a thing? If it's true,  then yes I would be very much against any student going to school without the vaccinations.  Please share. 

https://cbsaustin.com/news/nation-world/controversy-arises-as-new-york-allows-unvaccinated-migrant-children-in-schools-state-attorney-general-letitia-james-influx-measles-chickenpox-tetanus-health-concerns

WASHINGTON (TND) — When returning to the classroom most have to be vaccinated but New York struggling to deal with an influx of migrant children is now allowing them to attend school and they don't need to have their paperwork on vaccinations.

Thanks.  100% they should not be allowed in school until vaccinated.  This jeopardizes the health of the whole community

But American children don't have to be vaccinated to go to school so why should immigrant children?

They are where I live.  It's definitely a state/ local issue,  not federal.  

benjs said:

Evel K said:

Someone check my math. 8 billion people in the world. 13 billion shots administered. If I use two shots and a booster that would be about 4 billion people vaccinated. I personally think that number is high and it's probably more like 2 billion people that got initial 2 and multiple boosters. Here's the math part. If 4 billion  people are vaccinated and we end up having a 1% adverse event rate leading to death how many people could the vaccine have the potential to kill? Hint: It's 5x greater than the current covid deaths worldwide total of 7 million.

Where are you getting an idea of a 1% adverse event rate, and where are you getting an idea of a 1% adverse event rate leading to death. If they're just hypothetical, then you're just fear-mongering.

Evel K said:

Someone check my math. 8 billion people in the world. 13 billion shots administered. If I use two shots and a booster that would be about 4 billion people vaccinated. I personally think that number is high and it's probably more like 2 billion people that got initial 2 and multiple boosters. Here's the math part. If 4 billion  people are vaccinated and we end up having a 1% adverse event rate leading to death how many people could the vaccine have the potential to kill? Hint: It's 5x greater than the current covid deaths worldwide total of 7 million.

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

bootlegger10 said:

mrussel1 said:

bootlegger10 said:

mrussel1 said:

bootlegger10 said:

If I had a kid I wouldn’t give it a vaccine for something that statistically won’t be an issue.   I did the original C19 vax and boosters but done with it at this point unless required too in order to travel.

If you had an elderly or immunocompromised person (someone going through chemo as an example) living in the house,  would you give the child a vaccine? 

I would need to know if the vaccine has any impact on the kid’s ability to catch the virus and spread it.  My understanding is the vaccines don’t prevent you from catching it.  

I think my answer would be no.  

When your symptoms are lighter,  you are less contagious.  You sneeze less,, have lower viral load,  less mucus.  So the only way that it would not make your child less contagious is if the the vaccine literally did nothing.  

The reason I bring this up is that reason that schools closed was not directly about the child being at risk.  It was the teachers,  staff and families that were at a greater risk. 

If I were a parent, I wouldn’t like being told to inject something into my kid while they are still developing because they might catch something and might spread it.  I am not anti-pharma, but am anti taking a drug that isn’t necessary.  Not an easy choice.

No one can make you or your kids take any vaccine or medicine.  But don't start complaining when they can't fully participate in society,  including school.

I would argue that is "making" them do it if they can't participate in society. Many vaccines should be required. I'm not on board with requiring the covid vaccine yet. We don't require the flu shot, and kids get the flu and spread it to elderly all the time. 

But we knew in 2020/21 what the virus was doing to the elderly.  Let's not conflate that higher mortality strain to the strains of the past 18 months

I'm not disagreeing with that.
But we didn't have the vaccine until almost halfway though 2021. It wasn't approved for kids until even later. So vaccinating children didn't;t impact the high death dolls for the elderly in the early months of the virus.
I'm just saying at this stage, I don't think kids should be mandated to take the vaccine. And refusing them an education is making someone do something. I don't think any states have done that, but that was your example I responded to. If denied entry to school over a vaccine, that is making someone take it.

Kids aren't mandated,  anywhere.  It seems like you are applying what we know now,, after the less deadly mutations,  to decisions that were made before we had that knowledge.  And I say that because of the comparison to Influenza,  which is a fair one today,  but absurd for the first two stains.  

Yes, I understand they aren't mandated anywhere. But I was responding to your comment. Someone posted they don't plan to vaccinate their kids, and you no one makes you do anything, just don't complain when they can't go to school. 
It was hypothetical because you're right, it is not mandated. But if they ever were to require it to go to school, that qualifies as making someone take it in my book. And at this point, I don't think it should be mandated. Maybe in the future, maybe not. I don't know. 

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

bootlegger10 said:

mrussel1 said:

bootlegger10 said:

mrussel1 said:

bootlegger10 said:

If I had a kid I wouldn’t give it a vaccine for something that statistically won’t be an issue.   I did the original C19 vax and boosters but done with it at this point unless required too in order to travel.

If you had an elderly or immunocompromised person (someone going through chemo as an example) living in the house,  would you give the child a vaccine? 

I would need to know if the vaccine has any impact on the kid’s ability to catch the virus and spread it.  My understanding is the vaccines don’t prevent you from catching it.  

I think my answer would be no.  

When your symptoms are lighter,  you are less contagious.  You sneeze less,, have lower viral load,  less mucus.  So the only way that it would not make your child less contagious is if the the vaccine literally did nothing.  

The reason I bring this up is that reason that schools closed was not directly about the child being at risk.  It was the teachers,  staff and families that were at a greater risk. 

If I were a parent, I wouldn’t like being told to inject something into my kid while they are still developing because they might catch something and might spread it.  I am not anti-pharma, but am anti taking a drug that isn’t necessary.  Not an easy choice.

No one can make you or your kids take any vaccine or medicine.  But don't start complaining when they can't fully participate in society,  including school.

I would argue that is "making" them do it if they can't participate in society. Many vaccines should be required. I'm not on board with requiring the covid vaccine yet. We don't require the flu shot, and kids get the flu and spread it to elderly all the time. 

But we knew in 2020/21 what the virus was doing to the elderly.  Let's not conflate that higher mortality strain to the strains of the past 18 months

I'm not disagreeing with that.
But we didn't have the vaccine until almost halfway though 2021. It wasn't approved for kids until even later. So vaccinating children didn't;t impact the high death dolls for the elderly in the early months of the virus.
I'm just saying at this stage, I don't think kids should be mandated to take the vaccine. And refusing them an education is making someone do something. I don't think any states have done that, but that was your example I responded to. If denied entry to school over a vaccine, that is making someone take it.

Kids aren't mandated,  anywhere.  It seems like you are applying what we know now,, after the less deadly mutations,  to decisions that were made before we had that knowledge.  And I say that because of the comparison to Influenza,  which is a fair one today,  but absurd for the first two stains.  

Yes, I understand they aren't mandated anywhere. But I was responding to your comment. Someone posted they don't plan to vaccinate their kids, and you no one makes you do anything, just don't complain when they can't go to school. 
It was hypothetical because you're right, it is not mandated. But if they ever were to require it to go to school, that qualifies as making someone take it in my book. And at this point, I don't think it should be mandated. Maybe in the future, maybe not. I don't know. 

I don't think it will be mandated unless some terrible mutant strain shows up.  Now we have vaccines,  treatments that work very well and the virus continues to mutate in a way that seems to be less deadly.  Also our bodies have adapted.  

But I don't necessarily agree with your statement about what constitutes a mandate.  I would say that the measles shot is mandated to attend public school,  but not mandated to be a citizen,  avoid a fine or avoid jail.  That's a mandate.