Viruses / Vaccines 2

bootlegger10

Thanks everyone, I edited my post to indicate my brother is doing fine.  

mrussel1

OnWis97 said:

bootlegger10 said:

mace1229 said:

So I've been trying to read more about blood clots and their relation to the vaccine and covid.

About a month ago I found myself out of breath just walking. Trying to avoid a $5,000 ER bill I didn't going to the ER right away and got in to see my primary doctor. My oxygen was low and he said I could have my wife drive me to the ER or he was calling 911. I never did find out exactly how many blood clots in my lungs they found, I just remember the ER doctor saying they found multiple pulmonary embolisms in each of several different parts of the lung that he proceeded to name off. Has to be at least 6 or 8, maybe more. I was later told I was lucky to be alive, I had no pain or any other symptoms, so the fact it got that bad before I came in, I was very lucky.

Still waiting on some test results, but so far they can't find a cause. Had my most recent check up Friday, and I asked about a covid link. He confirmed there is a link with post covid and getting a blood clot. But usually a few weeks or couple months later, not a full year like I had. He also said the vaccine clots are blown way out of proportion, they are one in a million, but unexplained clots after covid are much more common.

My coworker told me her doctor told her the link was getting covid after the vaccine, but I haven't read anything that supports that.

They ran some tests for blood disorders and certain times a cancer. If all those come back negative (like I hope), a post covid symptom seems like the most likely scenario. Haven't traveled far, haven't had surgery, no big injuries lately. 

Anyone else know of people getting clots?

Glad you are okay!  My brother (mid 40's) had issues with blood clots about 3 months ago or so.  He was unvaccinated and doesn't know that he ever got Covid.   The docs believe it was triggered due to sitting on a plane for 7 hours the day before and not standing up and walking around.  

He went to urgent care and they basically to him if he was in his 20's it made sense to go to urgent care, but at his age he should have gone straight to the hospital with heart issues.  I think 40's is still young(ish) for heart issues.  They basically said we think you have blood clots, and there is no time to explain and you should get an ambulance to the hospital.

Holy crap...hope he's doing well.

Sitting for seven hours can lead to blood clots that would necessitate an emergency room trip for a middle-aged person? That's wild. 

I've always read that on long flights you should get up and move around to avoid clots.  I'm sure it's worse as you age,, but anyone can clot.

Evel K

mrussel1 said:

Evel K said:

mrussel1 said:

Evel K said:

mrussel1 said:

Evel K said:

Merkin Baller said:

Evel K said:

Someone check my math. 8 billion people in the world. 13 billion shots administered. If I use two shots and a booster that would be about 4 billion people vaccinated. I personally think that number is high and it's probably more like 2 billion people that got initial 2 and multiple boosters. Here's the math part. If 4 billion  people are vaccinated and we end up having a 1% adverse event rate leading to death how many people could the vaccine have the potential to kill? Hint: It's 5x greater than the current covid deaths worldwide total of 7 million.

“we end up having a 1% adverse event rate leading to death”

Wait a minute... you're saying that Pfizer's legal disclosures related to their forward looking financial statements is evidence that 1% of vaccine recipients will die?  Is that a joke?

Real numbers are 13 billion shots administered.  Seeing how it will literally be years before the true adverse events can be tallied to get an accurate percentage AND that number will be skewed by the variables of Covid/Shot/Covid, No Shots/Covid,  unreported cases and so on, the first conclusion I can make is that time will only ADD to the total number of adverse events. I am of the opinion that treating the disease should have been priority one and prevention second. There was a mad rush to market with these vaccines and the one thing that would've stopped everyone in their tracks is a viable treatment. If you don't think money played a part in all this check out who wrote this Jan/2021 article https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.forbes.com/sites/jvchamary/2021/01/31/remdesivir-covid-coronavirus/amp/&ved=2ahUKEwih4MvBkJCCAxUGjokEHfGeBsMQFnoECAwQBQ&usg=AOvVaw2VOHVioMjQ9n_mV861hGTk

Well I'm glad you think that treating the disease was priority one, because the CDC approved remdesivir for usage in Oct of 2020, months before the first vaccine was available.  But of course that was approved too quickly, there are too many adverse effects and deaths, and it will take years for us to really understand how many people were damaged by remdesivir.  Oh yeah, and pharma companies made money off of it...because you know... we live in the US.  

You seem to be well informed but this has changed again. In 2020, it was approved, but only for hospitalized patients. Then you have conflicting results from multiple studies but they are still only giving it to people with severe covid.

Evel K

Evel K said:

mrussel1 said:

Well I'm glad you think that treating the disease was priority one, because the CDC approved remdesivir for usage in Oct of 2020, months before the first vaccine was available.  But of course that was approved too quickly, there are too many adverse effects and deaths, and it will take years for us to really understand how many people were damaged by remdesivir.  Oh yeah, and pharma companies made money off of it...because you know... we live in the US.  

You seem to be well informed but this has changed again. In 2020, it was approved, but only for hospitalized patients. Then you have conflicting results from multiple studies but they are still only giving it to people with severe covid.

And here's March 2023 from Yale Medicine

Evel K

July 10th, 2020 - New England Journal of Medicine publishes that earlier administration of remdesivir would achieve a greater effect on survival. Somehow, Gilead Sciences stock drops for the next 5 months. Fast forward 2 years eight months and 13 billion vaccine SALES and now they're saying NEW DATA suggests it could be helpful.

Halifax2TheMax

Evel K said:

July 10th, 2020 - New England Journal of Medicine publishes that earlier administration of remdesivir would achieve a greater effect on survival. Somehow, Gilead Sciences stock drops for the next 5 months. Fast forward 2 years eight months and 13 billion vaccine SALES and now they're saying NEW DATA suggests it could be helpful.

I, for one, would rather avoid severe illness than have to be treated with one but that’s just me and you are yours. Don’t get vaccinated, choice is yours.

Try posting the link and the other letters to the editor of the NEJM that have information such as the following:

For many viral infections such as influenza and herpesvirus infections, treatment must be initiated soon after symptom onset in order to confer benefit.1,2 In the trial conducted by Beigel et al., it remains unclear whether the varied effect of remdesivir across subgroups was due to various times to treatment initiation. Severe Covid-19 typically manifests 8 to 12 days after symptom onset,3,4 so antiviral agents administered after 9 days may be futile. An analysis of how the time to treatment initiation predicted clinical benefit within each illness severity subgroup would greatly support clinical guidance around the use of remdesivir.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2022236

Halifax2TheMax

Authors responded to the peer reviews but if you’re interested, you can read them yourself at the link. The authors also stated they were revising their report based on some of the factors raised. Please post a link to the revised report when you get a chance. Additional peer review comments:

TO THE EDITOR

Beigel et al. report the results of a trial of remdesivir in patients with Covid-19, and they find a beneficial effect in the form of a shorter time to recovery and decreased mortality that did not reach statistical significance. The article specifies that the use of other medications was allowed if the local protocol allowed it. Given the importance of the results, it would be very important to know what percentage of patients received other treatments such as hydroxychloroquine, lopinavir–ritonavir, azithromycin, or various combinations of these drugs, as well as immunomodulatory treatments such as glucocorticoids or tocilizumab. If these treatments were used, it would also be important to know whether the effect of remdesivir was also verified independently of the rest of the treatments received and whether treatments considered to be rescue agents, such as immunomodulators, were warranted. This analysis would determine conditions not only for the use of remdesivir in clinical practice, but also for the design of subsequent trials in order to start taking steps with certainty in the fight against SARS-CoV-2.

Julián Olalla, M.D., Ph.D.
Hospital Costa del Sol, Marbella, Spain 
julio.olalla@gmail.com

No potential conflict of interest relevant to this letter was reported.

This letter was published on July 10, 2020, at NEJM.org.

GlowGirl

mrussel1 said:

OnWis97 said:

bootlegger10 said:

mace1229 said:

So I've been trying to read more about blood clots and their relation to the vaccine and covid.

About a month ago I found myself out of breath just walking. Trying to avoid a $5,000 ER bill I didn't going to the ER right away and got in to see my primary doctor. My oxygen was low and he said I could have my wife drive me to the ER or he was calling 911. I never did find out exactly how many blood clots in my lungs they found, I just remember the ER doctor saying they found multiple pulmonary embolisms in each of several different parts of the lung that he proceeded to name off. Has to be at least 6 or 8, maybe more. I was later told I was lucky to be alive, I had no pain or any other symptoms, so the fact it got that bad before I came in, I was very lucky.

Still waiting on some test results, but so far they can't find a cause. Had my most recent check up Friday, and I asked about a covid link. He confirmed there is a link with post covid and getting a blood clot. But usually a few weeks or couple months later, not a full year like I had. He also said the vaccine clots are blown way out of proportion, they are one in a million, but unexplained clots after covid are much more common.

My coworker told me her doctor told her the link was getting covid after the vaccine, but I haven't read anything that supports that.

They ran some tests for blood disorders and certain times a cancer. If all those come back negative (like I hope), a post covid symptom seems like the most likely scenario. Haven't traveled far, haven't had surgery, no big injuries lately. 

Anyone else know of people getting clots?

Glad you are okay!  My brother (mid 40's) had issues with blood clots about 3 months ago or so.  He was unvaccinated and doesn't know that he ever got Covid.   The docs believe it was triggered due to sitting on a plane for 7 hours the day before and not standing up and walking around.  

He went to urgent care and they basically to him if he was in his 20's it made sense to go to urgent care, but at his age he should have gone straight to the hospital with heart issues.  I think 40's is still young(ish) for heart issues.  They basically said we think you have blood clots, and there is no time to explain and you should get an ambulance to the hospital.

Holy crap...hope he's doing well.

Sitting for seven hours can lead to blood clots that would necessitate an emergency room trip for a middle-aged person? That's wild. 

I've always read that on long flights you should get up and move around to avoid clots.  I'm sure it's worse as you age,, but anyone can clot.

Yes. Moving around on long flights is a necessity. They say you should get up and walk every hour or two. I have never tried compression socks on a flight but they say that works as well to help prevent blood clots. 

mrussel1

Evel K said:

mrussel1 said:

Evel K said:

mrussel1 said:

Evel K said:

mrussel1 said:

Evel K said:

Merkin Baller said:

Evel K said:

Someone check my math. 8 billion people in the world. 13 billion shots administered. If I use two shots and a booster that would be about 4 billion people vaccinated. I personally think that number is high and it's probably more like 2 billion people that got initial 2 and multiple boosters. Here's the math part. If 4 billion  people are vaccinated and we end up having a 1% adverse event rate leading to death how many people could the vaccine have the potential to kill? Hint: It's 5x greater than the current covid deaths worldwide total of 7 million.

“we end up having a 1% adverse event rate leading to death”

Wait a minute... you're saying that Pfizer's legal disclosures related to their forward looking financial statements is evidence that 1% of vaccine recipients will die?  Is that a joke?

Real numbers are 13 billion shots administered.  Seeing how it will literally be years before the true adverse events can be tallied to get an accurate percentage AND that number will be skewed by the variables of Covid/Shot/Covid, No Shots/Covid,  unreported cases and so on, the first conclusion I can make is that time will only ADD to the total number of adverse events. I am of the opinion that treating the disease should have been priority one and prevention second. There was a mad rush to market with these vaccines and the one thing that would've stopped everyone in their tracks is a viable treatment. If you don't think money played a part in all this check out who wrote this Jan/2021 article https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.forbes.com/sites/jvchamary/2021/01/31/remdesivir-covid-coronavirus/amp/&ved=2ahUKEwih4MvBkJCCAxUGjokEHfGeBsMQFnoECAwQBQ&usg=AOvVaw2VOHVioMjQ9n_mV861hGTk

Well I'm glad you think that treating the disease was priority one, because the CDC approved remdesivir for usage in Oct of 2020, months before the first vaccine was available.  But of course that was approved too quickly, there are too many adverse effects and deaths, and it will take years for us to really understand how many people were damaged by remdesivir.  Oh yeah, and pharma companies made money off of it...because you know... we live in the US.  

You seem to be well informed but this has changed again. In 2020, it was approved, but only for hospitalized patients. Then you have conflicting results from multiple studies but they are still only giving it to people with severe covid.

Let's recap. You said we should have worked on treatment before vaccine (since apparently the nation's drug researchers can only do one thing at a time), I gave you a prime example where treatment came first.  Now your bar is that they should have had "at home" treatments before vaccines.  To boot, there was another treatment that was released as well, Regeneren, for severe cases.  There may even have been more, but I'm not going to keep arguing with someone who invents numbers and moves the bar, in order to make some argument that doesn't make any sense.  

1. You said imagine there was a 1% death rate for vaccines.  You literally made up that number.  The real number of adverse reaction (not death) is basis points of your imaginary number. 
2. You used their financial disclosure statements as "evidence" which is silliness
3. You said we should have worked on treatment first.  We did.
4. You said, well that wasn't approved for home use.  That's called moving the goal posts. 

Remember when I asked you if your arguments were a joke?  I didn't mean like "haha, that's funny".  

OnWis97

GlowGirl said:

mrussel1 said:

OnWis97 said:

bootlegger10 said:

mace1229 said:

So I've been trying to read more about blood clots and their relation to the vaccine and covid.

About a month ago I found myself out of breath just walking. Trying to avoid a $5,000 ER bill I didn't going to the ER right away and got in to see my primary doctor. My oxygen was low and he said I could have my wife drive me to the ER or he was calling 911. I never did find out exactly how many blood clots in my lungs they found, I just remember the ER doctor saying they found multiple pulmonary embolisms in each of several different parts of the lung that he proceeded to name off. Has to be at least 6 or 8, maybe more. I was later told I was lucky to be alive, I had no pain or any other symptoms, so the fact it got that bad before I came in, I was very lucky.

Still waiting on some test results, but so far they can't find a cause. Had my most recent check up Friday, and I asked about a covid link. He confirmed there is a link with post covid and getting a blood clot. But usually a few weeks or couple months later, not a full year like I had. He also said the vaccine clots are blown way out of proportion, they are one in a million, but unexplained clots after covid are much more common.

My coworker told me her doctor told her the link was getting covid after the vaccine, but I haven't read anything that supports that.

They ran some tests for blood disorders and certain times a cancer. If all those come back negative (like I hope), a post covid symptom seems like the most likely scenario. Haven't traveled far, haven't had surgery, no big injuries lately. 

Anyone else know of people getting clots?

Glad you are okay!  My brother (mid 40's) had issues with blood clots about 3 months ago or so.  He was unvaccinated and doesn't know that he ever got Covid.   The docs believe it was triggered due to sitting on a plane for 7 hours the day before and not standing up and walking around.  

He went to urgent care and they basically to him if he was in his 20's it made sense to go to urgent care, but at his age he should have gone straight to the hospital with heart issues.  I think 40's is still young(ish) for heart issues.  They basically said we think you have blood clots, and there is no time to explain and you should get an ambulance to the hospital.

Holy crap...hope he's doing well.

Sitting for seven hours can lead to blood clots that would necessitate an emergency room trip for a middle-aged person? That's wild. 

I've always read that on long flights you should get up and move around to avoid clots.  I'm sure it's worse as you age,, but anyone can clot.

Yes. Moving around on long flights is a necessity. They say you should get up and walk every hour or two. I have never tried compression socks on a flight but they say that works as well to help prevent blood clots. 

I'm glad to have seen this discussion. Last time I was on a flight of over 5 hours, I was in my 30s. Next time I'll be over 50. I'm glad to be aware of this.

lastexitlondon

The socks are well worth doing .

benjs

lastexitlondon said:

The socks are well worth doing .

I think we're all falling for the sock industry's propaganda. We should probably remain barefoot. My proof is that they have a financial interest in selling socks.

mrussel1

benjs said:

lastexitlondon said:

The socks are well worth doing .

I think we're all falling for the sock industry's propaganda. We should probably remain barefoot. My proof is that they have a financial interest in selling socks.

Checking on the stock price of Big Sock now.
  They are definitely in cahoots with cardiovascular doctors. 

HughFreakingDillon

Queens of the Stone Age have a sock of the month club. 

Sell outs. 

I think @tempo_n_groove has a bunch of #sockstock

benjs

mrussel1 said:

benjs said:

lastexitlondon said:

The socks are well worth doing .

I think we're all falling for the sock industry's propaganda. We should probably remain barefoot. My proof is that they have a financial interest in selling socks.

Checking on the stock price of Big Sock now.
  They are definitely in cahoots with cardiovascular doctors. 

The truth will be unraveled. 

lastexitlondon

benjs said:

lastexitlondon said:

The socks are well worth doing .

I think we're all falling for the sock industry's propaganda. We should probably remain barefoot. My proof is that they have a financial interest in selling socks.

Safe and effective 

brianlux

Socks really do make a difference in a number of ways.  For example, when I was in middle school I was our track and field team.  I needed to get some new gym socks and found some that had racing stripes across the top of the foot.  My ability to run faster increased almost immediately!

mrussel1

brianlux said:

Socks really do make a difference in a number of ways.  For example, when I was in middle school I was our track and field team.  I needed to get some new gym socks and found some that had racing stripes across the top of the foot.  My ability to run faster increased almost immediately!

That's a great story.  Along the same line,  I keep an extra pair of socks in my golf bag in case I have an emergency #2 pooping situation.  I can use my sock and have a backup to wear.  

But again,  this is where the Big Sock lobbyists try to infiltrate all parts of your life

Halifax2TheMax

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

Socks really do make a difference in a number of ways.  For example, when I was in middle school I was our track and field team.  I needed to get some new gym socks and found some that had racing stripes across the top of the foot.  My ability to run faster increased almost immediately!

That's a great story.  Along the same line,  I keep an extra pair of socks in my golf bag in case I have an emergency #2 pooping situation.  I can use my sock and have a backup to wear.  

But again,  this is where the Big Sock lobbyists try to infiltrate all parts of your life

I found making sock puppets and selling them on Etsy and eBay beats the sock globalists at their own game. I’m in the process of turning my closet into a podcast and social media lair to become a sock influencer. Mr. Lux might be my first guest to discuss faster track speeds and the impact of the color of the stripes on same.

benjs

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

Socks really do make a difference in a number of ways.  For example, when I was in middle school I was our track and field team.  I needed to get some new gym socks and found some that had racing stripes across the top of the foot.  My ability to run faster increased almost immediately!

That's a great story.  Along the same line,  I keep an extra pair of socks in my golf bag in case I have an emergency #2 pooping situation.  I can use my sock and have a backup to wear.  

But again,  this is where the Big Sock lobbyists try to infiltrate all parts of your life

I found making sock puppets and selling them on Etsy and eBay beats the sock globalists at their own game. I’m in the process of turning my closet into a podcast and social media lair to become a sock influencer. Mr. Lux might be my first guest to discuss faster track speeds and the impact of the color of the stripes on same.

I like it - make sock puppets before big sock make puppets out of you.