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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 41,951
    From NYT email alert:

    New data links pandemic’s origins to raccoon dogs at Wuhan market

    Genetic samples from the market were recently uploaded to an international database and then removed after scientists asked China about them.


    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • 23scidoo
    23scidoo Thessaloniki,Greece Posts: 19,929
    Athens 2006. Dusseldorf 2007. Berlin 2009. Venice 2010. Amsterdam 1 2012. Amsterdam 1+2 2014. Buenos Aires 2015.
    Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
    EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.

    I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
  • myoung321
    myoung321 Posts: 2,855
    brianlux said:
    I really want to get the latest booster and yet I really don't. 
    My only reason not to is that at 71+, I'm trying to keep moving.  I walk every day (only missed 6 days last year, none this year)- walks average one to one and a half miles, sometimes two or three.  I hate the idea of missing a walk day!
    Talk to your doctor. My guess is he will insist that you get it.
    I'm not anti-wax at all, but your argument that your doctor will insist isn't the warm fuzzy hug it used to be... They insisted OxyContin wasn't addictive as well... 
    "The heart and mind are the true lens of the camera." - Yusuf Karsh
     


  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,449
    myoung321 said:
    brianlux said:
    I really want to get the latest booster and yet I really don't. 
    My only reason not to is that at 71+, I'm trying to keep moving.  I walk every day (only missed 6 days last year, none this year)- walks average one to one and a half miles, sometimes two or three.  I hate the idea of missing a walk day!
    Talk to your doctor. My guess is he will insist that you get it.
    I'm not anti-wax at all, but your argument that your doctor will insist isn't the warm fuzzy hug it used to be... They insisted OxyContin wasn't addictive as well... 
    doctors are humans and aren't perfect. it's still better to talk to a licensed professional (especially one that knows your medical history) rather than a youtube video or some random guy on a website. 
    Hugh Freaking Dillon is currently out of the office, returning sometime in the fall




  • myoung321
    myoung321 Posts: 2,855
    edited March 2023
    myoung321 said:
    brianlux said:
    I really want to get the latest booster and yet I really don't. 
    My only reason not to is that at 71+, I'm trying to keep moving.  I walk every day (only missed 6 days last year, none this year)- walks average one to one and a half miles, sometimes two or three.  I hate the idea of missing a walk day!
    Talk to your doctor. My guess is he will insist that you get it.
    I'm not anti-wax at all, but your argument that your doctor will insist isn't the warm fuzzy hug it used to be... They insisted OxyContin wasn't addictive as well... 
    doctors are humans and aren't perfect. it's still better to talk to a licensed professional (especially one that knows your medical history) rather than a youtube video or some random guy on a website. 
    HAHA.... Never said any of that..... I just said its not the same warm fuzzy hug it used to be... especially for something that does not have long term studies.. Even "licensed professionals" are taking the word of Big Pharma and we know the track record of that has some dings in it.. 

    and OMG let me stop you before it starts... I am not Anti-Vax... I think most vaccines are beneficial to everyone and have taken them when suggested by my "licensed professionals"...haha 
    Post edited by myoung321 on
    "The heart and mind are the true lens of the camera." - Yusuf Karsh
     


  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,283

     
    New COVID origins data point to raccoon dogs in China market
    By DAKE KANG and MARIA CHENG
    Today

    BEIJING (AP) — Genetic material collected at a Chinese market near where the first human cases of COVID-19 were identified show raccoon dog DNA comingled with the virus, suggesting the pandemic may have originated from animals, not a lab, international experts say.

    Other experts have not yet verified their analysis, which has yet to appear in a peer-reviewed journal. How the coronavirus began sickening people remains uncertain. The sequences will have to be matched to the genetic record of how the virus evolved to see which came first.

    “These data do not provide a definitive answer to how the pandemic began, but every piece of data is important to moving us closer to that answer,” World Health Organization Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said Friday.

    He criticized China for not sharing the genetic information earlier, telling a press briefing that “this data could have and should have been shared three years ago.”

    The samples were collected from surfaces at the Huanan seafood market in early 2020 in Wuhan, where the first human cases of COVID-19 were found in late 2019.

    Tedros said the genetic sequences were recently uploaded to the world's biggest public virus database by scientists at the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention.

    Here's the latest for Friday March 17th: US to sell Tomahawk missiles to Australia; Storms cause landslide in Southern California; 10 charged in death of Black man in Virginia mental hospital; Treasury Secretary assures US banking system is safe.

    They were then removed, but not before a French biologist spotted the information by chance and shared it with a group of scientists based outside China that's looking into the origins of the coronavirus.

    The data show that some of the COVID-positive samples collected from a stall known to be involved in the wildlife trade also contained raccoon dog genes, indicating the animals may have been infected by the virus, according to the scientists. Their analysis was first reported in The Atlantic.

    “There’s a good chance that the animals that deposited that DNA also deposited the virus," said Stephen Goldstein, a virologist at the University of Utah who was involved in analyzing the data. “If you were to go and do environmental sampling in the aftermath of a zoonotic spillover event … this is basically exactly what you would expect to find.”

    The canines, named for their raccoon-like faces, are often bred for their fur and sold for meat in animal markets across China.

    Ray Yip, an epidemiologist and founding member of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control office in China, said the findings are significant, even though they aren't definitive.

    “The market environmental sampling data published by China CDC is by far the strongest evidence to support animal origins,” Yip told the AP in an email. He was not connected to the new analysis.

    WHO's COVID-19 technical lead, Maria Van Kerkhove, cautioned that the analysis did not find the virus within any animal, nor did it find any hard evidence that any animals infected humans.

    “What this does provide is clues to help us understand what may have happened,” she said. The international group also told WHO they found DNA from other animals as well as raccoon dogs in the samples from the seafood market, she added.

    “There's molecular evidence that animals were sold at Huanan market and that is new information,” Van Kerkhove said.

    The coronavirus’ genetic code is strikingly similar to that of bat coronaviruses, and many scientists suspect COVID-19 jumped into humans either directly from a bat or via an intermediary animal like pangolins, ferrets or racoon dogs.

    Efforts to determine the origins of the COVID-19 pandemic have been complicated by factors including the massive surge of human infections in the pandemic's first two years and an increasingly bitter political dispute.

    It took virus experts more than a dozen years to pinpoint the animal origin of SARS, a related virus.

    Goldstein and his colleagues say their analysis is the first solid indication that there may have been wildlife infected with the coronavirus at the market. But it is also possible that humans brought the virus to the market and infected the raccoon dogs, or that infected humans simply happened to leave traces of the virus near the animals.

    After scientists in the group contacted the China CDC, they say, the sequences were removed from the global virus database. Researchers are puzzled as to why data on the samples collected over three years ago wasn’t made public sooner. Tedros has pleaded with China to share more of its COVID-19 research data.

    Gao Fu, the former head of the Chinese CDC and lead author of the Chinese paper, didn’t immediately respond to an Associated Press email requesting comment. But he told Science magazine the sequences are “nothing new. It had been known there was illegal animal dealing and this is why the market was immediately shut down.”

    Goldstein said his group presented its findings this week to an advisory panel the WHO has tasked with investigating COVID-19’s origins.

    Mark Woolhouse, an infectious diseases expert at the University of Edinburgh, said it will be crucial to see how the raccoon dogs' genetic sequences match up to what's known about the historic evolution of the COVID-19 virus. If the dogs are shown to have COVID and those viruses prove to have earlier origins than the ones that infected people, “that’s probably as good evidence as we can expect to get that this was a spillover event in the market.”

    After a weeks-long visit to China to study the pandemic's origins, WHO released a report in 2021 concluding that COVID-19 most probably jumped into humans from animals, dismissing the possibility of a lab origin as “extremely unlikely.”

    But the U.N. health agency backtracked the following year, saying “key pieces of data” were still missing. And Tedros has said all hypotheses remain on the table.

    The China CDC scientists who previously analyzed the Huanan market samples published a paper as a preprint in February suggesting that humans brought the virus to the market, not animals, implying that the virus originated elsewhere. Their paper didn't mention that animal genes were found in the samples that tested positive.

    Wuhan, the Chinese city where COVID-19 was first detected, is home to several labs involved in collecting and studying coronaviruses, fueling theories that the virus may have leaked from one.

    In February, the Wall Street Journal reported that the U.S. Department of Energy had assessed “with low confidence” that the virus had leaked from a lab. But others in the U.S. intelligence community disagree, believing it more likely it first came from animals. Experts say the true origin of the pandemic may not be known for many years — if ever.

    ___

    Cheng reported from London.


    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • 23scidoo
    23scidoo Thessaloniki,Greece Posts: 19,929
    Bat ask what to do stock illustration Illustration of isolated - 127540734
    Athens 2006. Dusseldorf 2007. Berlin 2009. Venice 2010. Amsterdam 1 2012. Amsterdam 1+2 2014. Buenos Aires 2015.
    Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
    EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.

    I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,449
    myoung321 said:
    myoung321 said:
    brianlux said:
    I really want to get the latest booster and yet I really don't. 
    My only reason not to is that at 71+, I'm trying to keep moving.  I walk every day (only missed 6 days last year, none this year)- walks average one to one and a half miles, sometimes two or three.  I hate the idea of missing a walk day!
    Talk to your doctor. My guess is he will insist that you get it.
    I'm not anti-wax at all, but your argument that your doctor will insist isn't the warm fuzzy hug it used to be... They insisted OxyContin wasn't addictive as well... 
    doctors are humans and aren't perfect. it's still better to talk to a licensed professional (especially one that knows your medical history) rather than a youtube video or some random guy on a website. 
    HAHA.... Never said any of that..... I just said its not the same warm fuzzy hug it used to be... especially for something that does not have long term studies.. Even "licensed professionals" are taking the word of Big Pharma and we know the track record of that has some dings in it.. 

    and OMG let me stop you before it starts... I am not Anti-Vax... I think most vaccines are beneficial to everyone and have taken them when suggested by my "licensed professionals"...haha 
    I never said you said the last part of my sentence. just referring to the other extreme in this thread. I never meant to insinuate anything about you. 
    Hugh Freaking Dillon is currently out of the office, returning sometime in the fall




  • TJ25487
    TJ25487 Posts: 1,501
    23scidoo said:
    Bat ask what to do stock illustration Illustration of isolated - 127540734
    Dude! The bat theory is so yesterday! We all know now that it was a raccoon. 
  • TJ25487
    TJ25487 Posts: 1,501
    myoung321 said:
    brianlux said:
    I really want to get the latest booster and yet I really don't. 
    My only reason not to is that at 71+, I'm trying to keep moving.  I walk every day (only missed 6 days last year, none this year)- walks average one to one and a half miles, sometimes two or three.  I hate the idea of missing a walk day!
    Talk to your doctor. My guess is he will insist that you get it.
    I'm not anti-wax at all, but your argument that your doctor will insist isn't the warm fuzzy hug it used to be... They insisted OxyContin wasn't addictive as well... 
    doctors are humans and aren't perfect. it's still better to talk to a licensed professional (especially one that knows your medical history) rather than a youtube video or some random guy on a website. 
    myoung321 said:
    brianlux said:
    I really want to get the latest booster and yet I really don't. 
    My only reason not to is that at 71+, I'm trying to keep moving.  I walk every day (only missed 6 days last year, none this year)- walks average one to one and a half miles, sometimes two or three.  I hate the idea of missing a walk day!
    Talk to your doctor. My guess is he will insist that you get it.
    I'm not anti-wax at all, but your argument that your doctor will insist isn't the warm fuzzy hug it used to be... They insisted OxyContin wasn't addictive as well... 
    doctors are humans and aren't perfect. it's still better to talk to a licensed professional (especially one that knows your medical history) rather than a youtube video or some random guy on a website. 
    Yeah if your going to get sent over a cliff it makes sense to have doctor recommend it first. 
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,449
    super logical comparison! and super clever too!
    Hugh Freaking Dillon is currently out of the office, returning sometime in the fall




  • lastexitlondon
    lastexitlondon Posts: 14,869
    Well covid is here again in my house. See what happens  this time.


    this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,283
    gift article...



    Biden signs bill to declassify intelligence about coronavirus origins
    By Amy B Wang and Mark Johnson
    March 21, 2023 at 13:18 ET
    President Biden on Monday signed a bill into law that directs the federal government to declassify certain information about the origin of the coronavirus, three years after the virus caused a global pandemic that has killed millions of people worldwide.
    “I share the Congress’s goal of releasing as much information as possible about the origin” of the coronavirus, Biden said in a statement after the signing, adding, “We need to get to the bottom of COVID-19’s origins to help ensure we can better prevent future pandemics.”
    The bill requires the Office of the Director of National Intelligence to declassify all information relating to potential links between China’s Wuhan Institute of Virology and the origin of the coronavirus, with redactions only to prevent harm to national security.
    The declassified information must be released within 90 days of the bill being signed into law, although the language in the bill does not establish a mechanism for enforcement. Among other details, the information would include the names, symptoms and roles of any researchers who fell ill at the Wuhan institute in fall 2019, according to the text of the bill.
    The theory that the coronavirus, which causes covid-19, may have escaped from the Wuhan institute has been a subject of debate since early in the pandemic.

    continues....

    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • 23scidoo
    23scidoo Thessaloniki,Greece Posts: 19,929
    mrussel1 said:
    23scidoo said:
    Maybe that's what happens in your country, based on meritless innuendo.  But here in America, we follow the rule of law which includes evidence.  Stick to your own third world bullshit.  
    In my own third world??..hahahahaha..at least my nation is not sick..
    Athens 2006. Dusseldorf 2007. Berlin 2009. Venice 2010. Amsterdam 1 2012. Amsterdam 1+2 2014. Buenos Aires 2015.
    Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
    EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.

    I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
  • 23scidoo
    23scidoo Thessaloniki,Greece Posts: 19,929
    and with the word ''sick'', you know, I was very kind..
    Athens 2006. Dusseldorf 2007. Berlin 2009. Venice 2010. Amsterdam 1 2012. Amsterdam 1+2 2014. Buenos Aires 2015.
    Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
    EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.

    I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
  • 23scidoo
    23scidoo Thessaloniki,Greece Posts: 19,929
    TJ25487 said:
    23scidoo said:
    Bat ask what to do stock illustration Illustration of isolated - 127540734
    Dude! The bat theory is so yesterday! We all know now that it was a raccoon. 
    ι read somerthing about cats..
    Athens 2006. Dusseldorf 2007. Berlin 2009. Venice 2010. Amsterdam 1 2012. Amsterdam 1+2 2014. Buenos Aires 2015.
    Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
    EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.

    I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,876
    23scidoo said:
    mrussel1 said:
    23scidoo said:
    Maybe that's what happens in your country, based on meritless innuendo.  But here in America, we follow the rule of law which includes evidence.  Stick to your own third world bullshit.  
    In my own third world??..hahahahaha..at least my nation is not sick..
    "Gallows" was your suggestion.  That's not the rule of law. 
  • 23scidoo
    23scidoo Thessaloniki,Greece Posts: 19,929
    mrussel1 said:P
    23scidoo said:
    mrussel1 said:
    23scidoo said:
    Maybe that's what happens in your country, based on meritless innuendo.  But here in America, we follow the rule of law which includes evidence.  Stick to your own third world bullshit.  
    In my own third world??..hahahahaha..at least my nation is not sick..
    "Gallows" was your suggestion.  That's not the rule of law. 
    You know well that was manner of speaking..
    Athens 2006. Dusseldorf 2007. Berlin 2009. Venice 2010. Amsterdam 1 2012. Amsterdam 1+2 2014. Buenos Aires 2015.
    Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
    EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.

    I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,876
    23scidoo said:
    mrussel1 said:P
    23scidoo said:
    mrussel1 said:
    23scidoo said:
    Maybe that's what happens in your country, based on meritless innuendo.  But here in America, we follow the rule of law which includes evidence.  Stick to your own third world bullshit.  
    In my own third world??..hahahahaha..at least my nation is not sick..
    "Gallows" was your suggestion.  That's not the rule of law. 
    You know well that was manner of speaking..
    No,  I don't.  Radical words lead to radical action. 

    HANG MIKE PENCE

    Do you remember that chant? Pepperidge Farms remembers.
  • nicknyr15
    nicknyr15 Posts: 9,199
    mrussel1 said:
    23scidoo said:
    mrussel1 said:P
    23scidoo said:
    mrussel1 said:
    23scidoo said:
    Maybe that's what happens in your country, based on meritless innuendo.  But here in America, we follow the rule of law which includes evidence.  Stick to your own third world bullshit.  
    In my own third world??..hahahahaha..at least my nation is not sick..
    "Gallows" was your suggestion.  That's not the rule of law. 
    You know well that was manner of speaking..
    No,  I don't.  Radical words lead to radical action. 

    HANG MIKE PENCE

    Do you remember that chant? Pepperidge Farms remembers.
    Incredible.