Options

Viruses / Vaccines 2

1147148149150152

Comments

  • Options
    benjsbenjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,022
    edited June 7
    this is the key point that idiots think is a gotcha, when there obviously has to be an easy defined and understood cutoff:

    Moreover, I think Americans understood there wasn’t something magical about the exact distance. Did anyone really believe that being five feet away from others was dangerous while seven feet was safe? Rather, this guidance was based on a common-sense understanding that being in close contact with an infected person is risky.
    It's so incredibly stupid when people can't grasp this. You have a novel infection, you have uncertainty over how it's transmitted but highly contagious - so you establish rules under the assumption that airborne is a possibility as a risk mitigation. Then people say "see? it's government overreach!" Give me a fucking break. 

    Edit: ironically, I'd venture to guess that many of these same folks feel the government should ban abortions.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • Options
    Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 10,692
    edited June 7
    benjs said:
    this is the key point that idiots think is a gotcha, when there obviously has to be an easy defined and understood cutoff:

    Moreover, I think Americans understood there wasn’t something magical about the exact distance. Did anyone really believe that being five feet away from others was dangerous while seven feet was safe? Rather, this guidance was based on a common-sense understanding that being in close contact with an infected person is risky.
    It's so incredibly stupid when people can't grasp this. You have a novel infection, you have uncertainty over how it's transmitted but highly contagious - so you establish rules under the assumption that airborne is a possibility as a risk mitigation. Then people say "see? it's government overreach!" Give me a fucking break. 

    Edit: ironically, I'd venture to guess that many of these same folks feel the government should ban abortions.
    MTG and the rest of MAGA blaming Fauci for a pandemic he did his best to steer the country through is the height of this stupidity. She shouldn't even be allowed in the same room as him, let alone question him. 

    Why anyone of any talent or skill would want to serve our government after this bullshit is beyond me. 

    Idiocracy here we come. 
    Post edited by Merkin Baller on
  • Options
    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 37,113
    benjs said:
    this is the key point that idiots think is a gotcha, when there obviously has to be an easy defined and understood cutoff:

    Moreover, I think Americans understood there wasn’t something magical about the exact distance. Did anyone really believe that being five feet away from others was dangerous while seven feet was safe? Rather, this guidance was based on a common-sense understanding that being in close contact with an infected person is risky.
    It's so incredibly stupid when people can't grasp this. You have a novel infection, you have uncertainty over how it's transmitted but highly contagious - so you establish rules under the assumption that airborne is a possibility as a risk mitigation. Then people say "see? it's government overreach!" Give me a fucking break. 

    Edit: ironically, I'd venture to guess that many of these same folks feel the government should ban abortions.
    MTG and the rest of MAGA blaming Fauci for a pandemic he did his best to steer the country through is the height of this stupidity. She shouldn't even be allowed in the same room as him, let alone question him. 

    Why anyone of any talent or skill would want to serve our government after this bullshit is beyond me. 

    Idiocracy here we come. 
    Already there. “Common sense” for way too many is gone. Doesn’t exist. Nothing but misinformation and “doing their own research.” 
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • Options
    benjsbenjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,022
    benjs said:
    this is the key point that idiots think is a gotcha, when there obviously has to be an easy defined and understood cutoff:

    Moreover, I think Americans understood there wasn’t something magical about the exact distance. Did anyone really believe that being five feet away from others was dangerous while seven feet was safe? Rather, this guidance was based on a common-sense understanding that being in close contact with an infected person is risky.
    It's so incredibly stupid when people can't grasp this. You have a novel infection, you have uncertainty over how it's transmitted but highly contagious - so you establish rules under the assumption that airborne is a possibility as a risk mitigation. Then people say "see? it's government overreach!" Give me a fucking break. 

    Edit: ironically, I'd venture to guess that many of these same folks feel the government should ban abortions.
    MTG and the rest of MAGA blaming Fauci for a pandemic he did his best to steer the country through is the height of this stupidity. She shouldn't even be allowed in the same room as him, let alone question him. 

    Why anyone of any talent or skill would want to serve our government after this bullshit is beyond me. 

    Idiocracy here we come. 
    Already there. “Common sense” for way too many is gone. Doesn’t exist. Nothing but misinformation and “doing their own research.” 
    It's actually long past time to retire the expression "common sense". 
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • Options
    23scidoo23scidoo Thessaloniki,Greece Posts: 18,852
    Where was your common sense when the told you about the bats and ..oh, accidentally there is a lab near where the study the virus..
    check the latest statements from ex cdc director..boom!!!
    Athens 2006. Dusseldorf 2007. Berlin 2009. Venice 2010. Amsterdam 1 2012. Amsterdam 1+2 2014. Buenos Aires 2015.
    Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
    EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.

    I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
  • Options
    23scidoo23scidoo Thessaloniki,Greece Posts: 18,852
    benjs said:
    this is the key point that idiots think is a gotcha, when there obviously has to be an easy defined and understood cutoff:

    Moreover, I think Americans understood there wasn’t something magical about the exact distance. Did anyone really believe that being five feet away from others was dangerous while seven feet was safe? Rather, this guidance was based on a common-sense understanding that being in close contact with an infected person is risky.
    It's so incredibly stupid when people can't grasp this. You have a novel infection, you have uncertainty over how it's transmitted but highly contagious - so you establish rules under the assumption that airborne is a possibility as a risk mitigation. Then people say "see? it's government overreach!" Give me a fucking break. 

    Edit: ironically, I'd venture to guess that many of these same folks feel the government should ban abortions.
    MTG and the rest of MAGA blaming Fauci for a pandemic he did his best to steer the country through is the height of this stupidity. She shouldn't even be allowed in the same room as him, let alone question him. 

    Why anyone of any talent or skill would want to serve our government after this bullshit is beyond me. 

    Idiocracy here we come. 
    He did his best lies, right..idiocracy never left..
    Athens 2006. Dusseldorf 2007. Berlin 2009. Venice 2010. Amsterdam 1 2012. Amsterdam 1+2 2014. Buenos Aires 2015.
    Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
    EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.

    I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
  • Options
    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,585
    https://apnews.com/article/covid-vaccines-updated-moderna-pfizer-novavax-72c2c5fafc46ccc9f2fd89fcda5d99df   FDA advisers urge targeting JN.1 strain in recipe for fall's COVID vaccines




     
    FDA advisers urge targeting JN.1 strain in recipe for fall's COVID vaccines
    By LAURAN NEERGAARD
    5 Jun 2024

    WASHINGTON (AP) — Government advisers Wednesday said it’s time to update the recipe for the COVID-19 vaccines Americans will receive in the fall -- targeting a version of the ever-evolving coronavirus called JN.1.

    While COVID-19 cases currently are low, more surges are inevitable and manufacturers need time to brew shots for fall. Moderna, Pfizer and Novavax all have tested doses updated to match the JN.1 variant that became dominant last winter.

    But just a few months later, numerous offshoots of JN.1 already are on the rise, prompting Moderna and Pfizer to also test a slightly different vaccine formula targeting what’s now the most common U.S. subtype, called KP.2.

    That made for a tough choice as the Food and Drug Administration decides the final recipe. FDA’s advisers voted Wednesday that the next vaccine should come from the JN.1 “lineage” or family. Then FDA vaccine chief Dr. Peter Marks challenged them to be more specific about exactly which variant to target, wondering if KP.2 was a better option.

    “If this evolves further in the fall, will we regret not having been a little bit closer?” Marks said, likening the choice to how he always picks the “freshest” milk with the longest expiration date in the grocery store.

    But KP.2 isn't likely to still be the biggest threat by fall, the panel responded. Having to make the choice now, they preferred the parent JN.1 variant itself rather than trying to predict which of its descendants was most likely to increase in the coming months.

    “Having a vaccine that’s the trunk of the tree rather than the branches makes sense to me,” because it would offer some cross-protection to other subvariants that emerge, said one adviser, Dr. Melinda Wharton of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

    Health officials have told Americans to expect a yearly update to COVID-19 vaccines, just like they get a new flu shot each fall designed to match as best as possible the currently spreading strains. Even though just about everyone has either been infected or had at least one round of COVID-19 vaccinations, the coronavirus keeps churning out new varieties that can dodge prior immunity -– and protection also wanes over time.

    Last fall’s COVID-19 vaccine targeted a completely different section of the coronavirus family tree, and CDC data shows only about 22.5% of adults and 14% of children received it. But even though public concern about COVID-19 has waned, it remains deadlier than the flu, according to a recent analysis of Veterans Affairs hospitalizations this past winter.

    Moderna, Pfizer and Novavax all said they could have supplies of JN.1-specific shots ready by fall, although they didn't provide amounts. Like it has in previous years, the CDC will make recommendations on who should receive updated shots and when.

    ___

    The Associated Press Health and Science Department receives support from the Howard Hughes Medical Institute’s Science and Educational Media Group. The AP is solely responsible for all content.


    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Options
    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,585
    https://apnews.com/article/china-covid-virus-origins-pandemic-lab-leak-bed5ab50dca8e318ab00f60b5911da0c   Toxic: How the search for the origins of COVID-19 turned politically poisonous



     
    Toxic: How the search for the origins of COVID-19 turned politically poisonous
    By DAKE KANG and MARIA CHENG
    22 Apr 2024

    BEIJING (AP) — The hunt for the origins of COVID-19 has gone dark in China, the victim of political infighting after a series of stalled and thwarted attempts to find the source of the virus that killed millions and paralyzed the world for months.

    The Chinese government froze meaningful domestic and international efforts to trace the virus from the first weeks of the outbreak, despite statements supporting open scientific inquiry, an Associated Press investigation found. That pattern continues to this day, with labs closed, collaborations shattered, foreign scientists forced out and Chinese researchers barred from leaving the country.

    The investigation drew on thousands of pages of undisclosed emails and documents and dozens of interviews that showed the freeze began far earlier than previously known and involved political and scientific infighting in China as much as international finger-pointing.

    As early as Jan. 6, 2020, health officials in Beijing closed the lab of a Chinese scientist who sequenced the virus and barred researchers from working with him.

    Scientists warn the willful blindness over coronavirus’ origins leaves the world vulnerable to another outbreak, potentially undermining pandemic treaty talks coordinated by the World Health Organization set to culminate in May.

    At the heart of the question is whether the virus jumped from an animal or came from a laboratory accident. A U.S. intelligence analysis says there is insufficient evidence to prove either theory, but the debate has further tainted relations between the U.S. and China.

    Unlike in the U.S., there is virtually no public debate in China about whether the virus came from nature or from a lab leak. In fact, there is little public discussion at all about the source of the disease, first detected in the central city of Wuhan.

    Crucial initial efforts were hampered by bureaucrats in Wuhan trying to avoid blame who misled the central government; the central government, which muzzled Chinese scientists and subjected visiting WHO officials to stage-managed tours; and the U.N. health agency itself, which may have compromised early opportunities to gather critical information in hopes that by placating China, scientists could gain more access, according to internal materials obtained by AP.

    In a faxed statement, China's Foreign Ministry defended China’s handling of research into the origins, saying the country is open and transparent, shared data and research, and “made the greatest contribution to global origins research.” The National Health Commission, China's top medical authority, said the country “invested huge manpower, material and financial resources” and “has not stopped looking for the origins of the coronavirus.”

    It could have played out differently, as shown by the outbreak of SARS, a genetic relative of COVID-19, nearly 20 years ago. China initially hid infections then, but WHO complained swiftly and publicly. Ultimately, Beijing fired officials and made reforms. The U.N. agency soon found SARS likely jumped to humans from civet cats in southern China and international scientists later collaborated with their Chinese counterparts to pin down bats as SARS’ natural reservoir.

    But different leaders of both China and WHO, China’s quest for control of its researchers, and global tensions have all led to silence when it comes to searching for COVID-19’s origins. Governments in Asia are pressuring scientists not to look for the virus for fear it could be traced inside their borders.

    Even without those complications, experts say identifying how outbreaks begin is incredibly challenging and that it’s rare to know with certainty how some viruses begin spreading.

    “It’s disturbing how quickly the search for the origins of (COVID-19) escalated into politics,” said Mark Woolhouse, a University of Edinburgh outbreak expert. “Now this question may never be definitively answered.”

    CLOUDS OF SECRECY

    Secrecy clouds the beginning of the outbreak. Even the date when Chinese authorities first started searching for the origins is unclear.

    The first publicly known search for the virus took place on Dec. 31, 2019, when Chinese Center for Disease Control scientists visited the Wuhan market where many early COVID-19 cases surfaced.

    However, WHO officials heard of an earlier inspection of the market on Dec. 25, 2019, according to a recording of a confidential WHO meeting provided to AP by an attendee. Such a probe has never been mentioned publicly by either Chinese authorities or WHO.

    In the recording, WHO’s top animal virus expert, Peter Ben Embarek, mentioned the earlier date, describing it as “an interesting detail.” He told colleagues that officials were “looking at what was on sale in the market, whether all the vendors have licenses (and) if there was any illegal (wildlife) trade happening in the market.”

    A colleague asked Ben Embarek, who is no longer with WHO, if that seemed unusual. He responded that “it was not routine,” and that the Chinese “must have had some reason” to investigate the market. “We’ll try to figure out what happened and why they did that.”

    Ben Embarek declined to comment. Another WHO staffer at the Geneva meeting in late January 2020 confirmed Ben Embarek’s comments.

    The Associated Press could not confirm the search independently. It remains a mystery if it took place, what inspectors discovered, or whether they sampled live animals that might point to how COVID-19 emerged.

    A Dec. 25, 2019, inspection would have come when Wuhan authorities were aware of the mysterious disease. The day before, a local doctor sent a sample from an ill market vendor to get sequenced that turned out to contain COVID-19. Chatter about the unknown pneumonia was spreading in Wuhan’s medical circles, according to one doctor and a relative of another who declined to be identified, fearing repercussions.

    A scientist in China when the outbreak occurred said they heard of a Dec. 25 inspection from collaborating virologists in the country. They declined to be named out of fear of retribution.

    WHO said in an email that it was “not aware” of the Dec. 25 investigation. It is not included in the U.N. health agency’s official COVID-19 timeline.

    When China CDC researchers from Beijing arrived on Jan. 1 to collect samples at the market, it had been ordered shut and was already being disinfected, destroying critical information about the virus. Gao Fu, then head of the China CDC, mentioned it to an American collaborator.

    “His complaint when I met him was that all the animals were gone,” said Columbia University epidemiologist Ian Lipkin.

    Robert Garry, who studies viruses at Tulane University, said a Dec. 25 probe would be “hugely significant,” given what is known about the virus and its spread.

    “Being able to swab it directly from the animal itself would be pretty convincing and nobody would be arguing” about the origins of COVID-19, he said.

    But perhaps local officials simply feared for their jobs, with memories of firings after the 2003 SARS outbreak still vivid, said Ray Yip, the founding head of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention outpost in China.

    “They were trying to save their skin, hide the evidence,” Yip said.

    The Wuhan government did not respond to a faxed request for comment.

    Another early victim was Zhang Yongzhen, the first scientist to publish a sequence of the virus. A day after he wrote a memo urging health authorities to action, China’s top health official ordered Zhang’s lab closed.

    “They used their official power against me and our colleagues,” Zhang wrote in an email provided to AP by Edward Holmes, an Australian virologist.

    On Jan. 20, 2020, a WHO delegation arrived in Wuhan for a two-day mission. China did not approve a visit to the market, but they stopped by a China CDC lab to examine infection prevention and control procedures, according to an internal WHO travel report. WHO’s then-China representative, Dr. Gauden Galea, told colleagues in a private meeting that inquiries about COVID-19’s origins went unanswered.

    By then, many Chinese were angry at their government. Among Chinese doctors and scientists, the sense grew that Beijing was hunting for someone to blame.

    “There are a few cadres who have performed poorly,” Chinese leader Xi Jinping said in unusually harsh comments in February. “Some dare not take responsibility, wait timidly for orders from above, and don’t move without being pushed.”

    The government opened investigations into top health officials, according to two former and current China CDC staff and three others familiar with the matter. Health officials were encouraged to report colleagues who mishandled the outbreak to Communist Party disciplinary bodies, according to two of the people.

    Some people both inside and outside China speculated about a laboratory leak. Those suspicious included right-wing American politicians, but also researchers close to WHO.

    The focus turned to the Wuhan Institute of Virology, a high-level lab that experimented with some of the world’s most dangerous viruses.

    In early February 2020, some of the West’s leading scientists, headed by Dr. Jeremy Farrar, then at Britain’s Wellcome Trust, and Dr. Anthony Fauci, then director of the U.S. National Institutes of Health, banded together to assess the origins of the virus in calls, a Slack channel and emails.

    They drafted a paper suggesting a natural evolution, but even among themselves, they could not agree on the likeliest scenario. Some were alarmed by features they thought might indicate tinkering.

    “There have (been) suggestions that the virus escaped from the Wuhan lab,” Holmes, the Australian virologist, who believed the virus originated in nature, wrote in a Feb. 7, 2020, email. “I do a lot of work in China, and I can (assure) you that a lot of people there believe they are being lied to.”

    American scientists close to researchers at the Wuhan Institute of Virology warned counterparts there to prepare.

    James LeDuc, head of a Texas lab, emailed his Wuhan colleague on Feb. 9, 2020, saying he’d already been approached by U.S. officials. “Clearly addressing this will be essential, with any kind of documentation you might have,” he wrote.

    The Chinese government was conducting its own secret investigation into the Wuhan Institute. Gao, the then-head of the China CDC, and another Chinese health expert revealed its existence in interviews months and years later. Both said the investigation found no evidence of wrongdoing, which Holmes, the Australian virologist, also heard from another contact in China. But Gao said even he hadn't seen further details, and some experts suspect they may never be released.

    WHO started negotiations with China for a further visit with the virus origins in mind, but it was China’s Foreign Ministry that decided the terms.

    Scientists were sidelined and politicians took control. China refused a visa for Ben Embarek, then WHO’s top animal virus expert. The itinerary dropped nearly all items linked to an origins search, according to draft agendas for the trip obtained by the AP. And Gao, the then-head of the China CDC who is also a respected scientist tasked with investigating the origins, was left off the schedule.

    Instead, Liang Wannian, a politician in the Communist Party hierarchy, took charge of the international delegation. Liang is an epidemiologist close to top Chinese officials and China's Foreign Ministry who is widely seen as pushing the party line, not science-backed policies, according to nine people familiar with the situation who declined to be identified to speak on a sensitive subject.

    Liang ruled in favor of shutting the Wuhan market at the beginning of the outbreak, according to a Chinese media interview with a top China CDC official that was later deleted. Significantly, it was Liang who promoted an implausible theory that the virus came from contaminated frozen food imported into China. Liang did not respond to an emailed request for comment.

    Most of the WHO delegation was not allowed to go to Wuhan, which was under lockdown. The few who did learned little. They again had no access to the Wuhan Institute of Virology or the wildlife market and obtained only scant details about China CDC efforts to trace the coronavirus there.

    On the train, Liang lobbied the visiting WHO scientists to praise China’s health response in their public report. Dr. Bruce Aylward, a senior adviser to WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, saw it as the “best way to meet China’s need for a strong assessment of its response.”

    The new section was so flattering that colleagues emailed Aylward to suggest he “dial it back a bit.”

    “It is remarkable how much knowledge about a new virus has been gained in such a short time,” read the final report, which was reviewed by China’s top health official before it went to Tedros.

    As criticism of China grew, the Chinese government deflected blame. Instead of firing health officials, they declared their virus response a success and closed investigations into the officials with few job losses.

    “There were no real reforms, because doing reforms means admitting fault,” said a public health expert in contact with Chinese health officials who asked not to be identified because of the sensitivity of the matter.

    In late February 2020, the internationally respected doctor Zhong Nanshan appeared at a news conference and said that “the epidemic first appeared in China, but it did not necessarily originate in China.”

    Days later, Chinese leader Xi ordered new controls on virus research. A leaked directive from China’s Publicity Department ordered media not to report on the virus origins without permission, and a public WeChat account reposted an essay claiming the U.S. military created COVID-19 at a Fort Detrick lab and spread it to China during a 2019 athletic competition in Wuhan. Days later, a Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson repeated the accusation.

    The false claims enraged U.S. President Donald Trump, who began publicly blaming China for the outbreak, calling COVID-19 “the China virus” and the “kung-flu.”

    Chinese officials told WHO that blood tests on lab workers at the Wuhan Institute of Virology were negative, suggesting COVID-19 wasn’t the result of a lab accident there. But when WHO pressed for an independent audit, Chinese officials balked and demanded WHO investigate the U.S. and other countries as well.


    continues...


    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Options
    HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 36,217
    23scidoo said:
    Where was your common sense when the told you about the bats and ..oh, accidentally there is a lab near where the study the virus..
    check the latest statements from ex cdc director..boom!!!
    google "zoonotic diseases". you're welcome. 
    Flight Risk out NOW!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • Options
    23scidoo23scidoo Thessaloniki,Greece Posts: 18,852
    ΟΜG!!..you still believe this..
    Athens 2006. Dusseldorf 2007. Berlin 2009. Venice 2010. Amsterdam 1 2012. Amsterdam 1+2 2014. Buenos Aires 2015.
    Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
    EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.

    I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
  • Options
    HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 36,217
    23scidoo said:
    ΟΜG!!..you still believe this..
    believe what? that zoonotic diseases exist? yes, it's called science. it was a theory on how this pandemic started. it has now been found to be less likely than the lab leak theory, depending who you speak to. 
    Flight Risk out NOW!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • Options
    23scidoo23scidoo Thessaloniki,Greece Posts: 18,852
    To you..
    Athens 2006. Dusseldorf 2007. Berlin 2009. Venice 2010. Amsterdam 1 2012. Amsterdam 1+2 2014. Buenos Aires 2015.
    Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
    EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.

    I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
  • Options
    jwhjr17jwhjr17 Posts: 1,948
    I can't believe this thread is still going.  It's the gift that keeps on giving I guess.
    1998-06-30 Mpls | 2006-07-06 Las Vegas | 2010-05-03 Kansas City | 2011-07-01 St. Louis EV | 2011-07-02 Mpls EV | 2011-09-03 PJ20
    2011-09-04 PJ20 | 2011-09-17 Winnipeg | 2012-09-30 Missoula | 2012-11-18 Tulsa EV | 2013-07-19 Chicago | 2013-11-15 Dallas
    2013-11-16 OKC | 2014-10-09 Lincoln | 2014-10-17 Moline | 2014-10-19 St. Paul | 2014-10-20 Milwaukee | 2016-08-20 Chicago
    2016-08-22 Chicago | 2018-08-18 Chicago | 2018-08-20 Chicago | 2022-05-09 Phoenix | 2022-05-20 Las Vegas | 2022-09-18 St. Louis 
    2022-09-20 OKC | 2023-08-31 St. Paul | 2023-09-02 St. Paul | 2024-05-16 Las Vegas | 2024-05-18 Las Vegas | **2024-08-31 Chicago**
  • Options
    HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 36,217
    23scidoo said:
    To you..
    you're saying you don't believe zoonotic diseases are real?
    Flight Risk out NOW!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • Options
    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,585
    jwhjr17 said:
    I can't believe this thread is still going.  It's the gift that keeps on giving I guess.
    to be fair, covid isnt gone. continues to morph and becaome "better" at its job. its also not the only virus in existence.

    but the same tired argument drom some quarters is ridiculous imo...


    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Options
    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,585
    https://apnews.com/article/bird-flu-h5n2-h5n1-85366c76aeba57460eb83646f5c37be3   A man in Mexico died with one form of bird flu, but US officials remain focused on another

    A man in Mexico died with one form of bird flu, but US officials remain focused on another
    By MIKE STOBBE
    6 Jun 2024

    NEW YORK (AP) — The mysterious death of a man in Mexico who had one kind of bird flu is unrelated to outbreaks of a different type at U.S. dairy farms, experts say.

    Here’s a look at the case and the different types of bird flu.

    WHAT HAPPENED IN THE MEXICO BIRD FLU CASE?

    A 59-year-old man in Mexico who had been bedridden because of chronic health problems developed a fever, shortness of breath and diarrhea in April. He died a week later, and the World Health Organization this week reported it.

    The WHO said it was the first time that version of bird flu — H5N2 — had been seen in a person.

    WHAT'S BEEN HAPPENING IN THE U.S. WITH BIRD FLU?

    A different version of bird flu — H5N1 — has been infecting poultry flocks over the last several years, leading to millions of birds being culled. It also has been spreading among all different kinds of animals around the world.

    This year, that flu was detected in U.S. dairy farms. Dozens of herd have seen infections, most recently in Iowa and Minnesota.

    The cow outbreak has been tied to three reported illnesses in farmworkers, one in Texas and two in Michigan. Each had only mild symptoms.

    WHAT'S DO THE LETTERS AND NUMBERS MEAN IN BIRD FLU NAMES?

    So-called influenza A viruses are the only viruses tied to human flu pandemics, so their appearance in animals and people is a concern. These viruses are divided into subtypes based on what kinds of proteins they have on their surface — hemagglutinin (H) and neuraminidase (N).

    Scientists say there are 18 different “H” subtypes and 11 different “N” subtypes, and they appear in scores of combinations. H1N1 and H3N2 are common causes of seasonal flu among humans. There are many versions seen in animals as well.

    H5N1, the version that has worried some U.S. scientists lately, historically has been seen mainly in birds, but has in recent years has spread to a wide variety of mammals.

    WHAT IS H5N2?

    H5N2 has long been seen in Mexican poultry, and farms vaccinate against it.

    It's also no stranger to the United States. An H5N2 outbreak hit a flock of 7,000 chickens in south-central Texas in 2004, the first time in two decades a dangerous-to-poultry avian flu appeared in the U.S.

    H5N2 also was mainly responsible for a wave outbreaks at U.S. commercial poultry farms in 2014 and 2015.

    HOW DANGEROUS IS H5N2?

    Over the years, H5N2 has teetered between being considered a mild threat to birds and a severe threat, but it hasn't been considered much of a human threat at all.

    A decade ago, researchers used mice and ferrets to study the strain afflicting U.S. poultry at the time, and concluded it was less likely to spread and less lethal than H5N1. Officials also said there was no evidence it was spreading among people.

    Rare cases of animal infections are reported each year, so it's not unexpected that a person was diagnosed with H5N2.

    "If you’re a glass half full kind of person, you’d say, ‘This is the system doing exactly what it’s supposed to do: detecting and documenting these rare human infections, where years ago we were stumbling in the dark,’” said Matthew Ferrari, director of Penn State's Center for Infectious Disease Dynamics.

    Indeed, Mexico Health Secretary Jorge Alcocer said kidney and respiratory failure — not the virus — actually caused the man's death.

    Some experts said it is noteworthy that it's not known how he caught the man caught H5N2.

    “The fact there was no reported contact (with an infected bird) does raise the possibility that he was infected by someone else who visited him, but it’s premature to jump to those conclusions,” said Richard Webby, a flu researcher at St. Jude Children’s Research Hospital in Memphis.

    WHAT ABOUT OTHER TYPES OF BIRD FLU?

    At this point, H5N2 is still considered a minor threat compared to some of the other kinds of bird flu out there. Most human illnesses have been attributed to H7N9, H5N6 and H5N1 bird flu viruses.

    From early 2013 through October 2017, five outbreaks of H7N9 were blamed for killing more than 600 people in China. And at least 18 people in China died during an outbreak of H5N6 in 2021, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

    H5N1 was first identified in 1959, but didn't really began to worry health officials until a Hong Kong outbreak in 1997 that involved severe human illnesses and deaths.

    H5N1 cases have continued since then, the vast majority of them involving direct contact between people and infected animals. Globally, more than 460 human deaths have been identified since 2003, according to WHO statistics that suggest it can kill as many as half of the people reported to be infected.

    Like other viruses, H5N1 as evolved over time, spawning newer versions of itself. In the last few years, the predominant version of the virus has spread quickly among a wide range of animals, but counts of human fatalities have slowed.

    ___

    Associated Press writer María Verza in Mexico City contributed to this story.

    ___

    The Associated Press Health and Science Department receives support from the Howard Hughes Medical Institute’s Science and Educational Media Group. The AP is solely responsible for all content.

     

    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Options
    HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 36,217
    must have been Fauci, mick. 
    Flight Risk out NOW!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • Options
    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,585
    pssst ^^^^^^   zoonotic illnesses.....
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Options
    23scidoo23scidoo Thessaloniki,Greece Posts: 18,852
    23scidoo said:
    To you..
    you're saying you don't believe zoonotic diseases are real?
    i was talking about covid, its origin..
    Athens 2006. Dusseldorf 2007. Berlin 2009. Venice 2010. Amsterdam 1 2012. Amsterdam 1+2 2014. Buenos Aires 2015.
    Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
    EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.

    I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
  • Options
    23scidoo23scidoo Thessaloniki,Greece Posts: 18,852
    what will happen, we will not comment on the statements from ex cdc director??..
    or its a hot potato??..
    Athens 2006. Dusseldorf 2007. Berlin 2009. Venice 2010. Amsterdam 1 2012. Amsterdam 1+2 2014. Buenos Aires 2015.
    Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
    EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.

    I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
  • Options
    benjsbenjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,022
    23scidoo said:
    23scidoo said:
    To you..
    you're saying you don't believe zoonotic diseases are real?
    i was talking about covid, its origin..
    This has been explained to you tens of times on here. While the pandemic was killing people across the globe en masse - the consensus amongst most on here was that it did not matter one iota whether it was from a lab or from a wet market. In either case, the Chinese government was unlikely to admit anything, and if they did, what would it change? Clearly it ravaged China as well, so clearly they weren't able to curb the impact regardless. While you were focusing on 'where did it come from', reasonable people were focused on 'how can we stop it from killing people'. It's akin to trying to establish rules for the Hague before the Holocaust was over.

    Now you come on here like you're the only enlightened one who could see the truth from day one (not that your truth has been proven) - you don't seem to realize, people frankly did not care about its origin while they were watching neighbours become hospitalized or die. It's called priorities. What vindication are you seeking here? 
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • Options
    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,585
    23scidoo said:
    what will happen, we will not comment on the statements from ex cdc director??..
    or its a hot potato??..

    well given under his watch he allowed lan cleanliness standards to drop, making it so millions of contaminated test kits had to be trashed, no. I wont comment on his statements. he was serving trump. not the anerican people.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Options
    HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 36,217
    23scidoo said:
    what will happen, we will not comment on the statements from ex cdc director??..
    or its a hot potato??..
    why is it you only believe people in these positions when they agree with your position? none of these folks are to be believed, I thought? They're all part of the conspiracy, I thought?

    and post something he said. I'm not watching a 2.5 hour interview. 
    Flight Risk out NOW!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • Options
    HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 36,217
    and he sat on a panel with this POS:


    Flight Risk out NOW!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • Options
    23scidoo23scidoo Thessaloniki,Greece Posts: 18,852
    benjs said:
    23scidoo said:
    23scidoo said:
    To you..
    you're saying you don't believe zoonotic diseases are real?
    i was talking about covid, its origin..
    This has been explained to you tens of times on here. While the pandemic was killing people across the globe en masse - the consensus amongst most on here was that it did not matter one iota whether it was from a lab or from a wet market. In either case, the Chinese government was unlikely to admit anything, and if they did, what would it change? Clearly it ravaged China as well, so clearly they weren't able to curb the impact regardless. While you were focusing on 'where did it come from', reasonable people were focused on 'how can we stop it from killing people'. It's akin to trying to establish rules for the Hague before the Holocaust was over.

    Now you come on here like you're the only enlightened one who could see the truth from day one (not that your truth has been proven) - you don't seem to realize, people frankly did not care about its origin while they were watching neighbours become hospitalized or die. It's called priorities. What vindication are you seeking here? 
    topic of principles..if you don't understand, we have different values..
    ''where did it come from''..the issue is who knew about it and hide it and who funded the research..bingo!!..
    Athens 2006. Dusseldorf 2007. Berlin 2009. Venice 2010. Amsterdam 1 2012. Amsterdam 1+2 2014. Buenos Aires 2015.
    Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
    EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.

    I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
  • Options
    23scidoo23scidoo Thessaloniki,Greece Posts: 18,852
    23scidoo said:
    what will happen, we will not comment on the statements from ex cdc director??..
    or its a hot potato??..
    why is it you only believe people in these positions when they agree with your position? none of these folks are to be believed, I thought? They're all part of the conspiracy, I thought?

    and post something he said. I'm not watching a 2.5 hour interview. 
    mother google..
    Athens 2006. Dusseldorf 2007. Berlin 2009. Venice 2010. Amsterdam 1 2012. Amsterdam 1+2 2014. Buenos Aires 2015.
    Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
    EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.

    I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
  • Options
    23scidoo23scidoo Thessaloniki,Greece Posts: 18,852
    mickeyrat said:
    23scidoo said:
    what will happen, we will not comment on the statements from ex cdc director??..
    or its a hot potato??..

    well given under his watch he allowed lan cleanliness standards to drop, making it so millions of contaminated test kits had to be trashed, no. I wont comment on his statements. he was serving trump. not the anerican people.
    as I've said in the past, I get it, no one wants to be caught making a fool of themselves, and it's hard to admit it..
    Athens 2006. Dusseldorf 2007. Berlin 2009. Venice 2010. Amsterdam 1 2012. Amsterdam 1+2 2014. Buenos Aires 2015.
    Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
    EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.

    I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
  • Options
    benjsbenjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,022
    23scidoo said:
    benjs said:
    23scidoo said:
    23scidoo said:
    To you..
    you're saying you don't believe zoonotic diseases are real?
    i was talking about covid, its origin..
    This has been explained to you tens of times on here. While the pandemic was killing people across the globe en masse - the consensus amongst most on here was that it did not matter one iota whether it was from a lab or from a wet market. In either case, the Chinese government was unlikely to admit anything, and if they did, what would it change? Clearly it ravaged China as well, so clearly they weren't able to curb the impact regardless. While you were focusing on 'where did it come from', reasonable people were focused on 'how can we stop it from killing people'. It's akin to trying to establish rules for the Hague before the Holocaust was over.

    Now you come on here like you're the only enlightened one who could see the truth from day one (not that your truth has been proven) - you don't seem to realize, people frankly did not care about its origin while they were watching neighbours become hospitalized or die. It's called priorities. What vindication are you seeking here? 
    topic of principles..if you don't understand, we have different values..
    ''where did it come from''..the issue is who knew about it and hide it and who funded the research..bingo!!..
    I have no opposition with you seeking it these days when crisis is no longer at hand. What I found frankly stupid, was when as I said, people were dying of CoVID on a regular basis, and you had this obsession over where it came from. If you want to be obsessed today, have at it. Maybe if your ilk shared statistical evidence or pursued having articles published, it would lend a bit more credibility to your unearned confidence. Seems to me there are two unproven theories, you just like to speak about one of them like it's proven but suppressed. Given that "suppression", it's impossible to disprove, but also impossible to prove. That's the territory that conspiracy theorists love to live in.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • Options
    HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 36,217
    23scidoo said:
    23scidoo said:
    what will happen, we will not comment on the statements from ex cdc director??..
    or its a hot potato??..
    why is it you only believe people in these positions when they agree with your position? none of these folks are to be believed, I thought? They're all part of the conspiracy, I thought?

    and post something he said. I'm not watching a 2.5 hour interview. 
    mother google..
    no. show your work or I'm not marking it. 
    Flight Risk out NOW!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • Options
    jwhjr17jwhjr17 Posts: 1,948
    mickeyrat said:
    jwhjr17 said:
    I can't believe this thread is still going.  It's the gift that keeps on giving I guess.
    to be fair, covid isnt gone. continues to morph and becaome "better" at its job. its also not the only virus in existence.

    but the same tired argument drom some quarters is ridiculous imo...


    This exactly
    1998-06-30 Mpls | 2006-07-06 Las Vegas | 2010-05-03 Kansas City | 2011-07-01 St. Louis EV | 2011-07-02 Mpls EV | 2011-09-03 PJ20
    2011-09-04 PJ20 | 2011-09-17 Winnipeg | 2012-09-30 Missoula | 2012-11-18 Tulsa EV | 2013-07-19 Chicago | 2013-11-15 Dallas
    2013-11-16 OKC | 2014-10-09 Lincoln | 2014-10-17 Moline | 2014-10-19 St. Paul | 2014-10-20 Milwaukee | 2016-08-20 Chicago
    2016-08-22 Chicago | 2018-08-18 Chicago | 2018-08-20 Chicago | 2022-05-09 Phoenix | 2022-05-20 Las Vegas | 2022-09-18 St. Louis 
    2022-09-20 OKC | 2023-08-31 St. Paul | 2023-09-02 St. Paul | 2024-05-16 Las Vegas | 2024-05-18 Las Vegas | **2024-08-31 Chicago**
Sign In or Register to comment.