Viruses / Vaccines 2

Tim Simmons

I struggled to decide which thread to put this in (after several posts over the last few weeks), but this one is probably the most appropriate. 

Welcome to the lexicon Gullisism. A portmanteau of gullible and cynicism. Of which a particular swath of Americans suffer from. 

I highly recommend this article (there may be a captcha, but it blocks the pop ups and ads) if you have a free Saturday evening or a nice Sunday morning, please read. Really enlightening. 

https://archive.is/20260309115923/https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/03/cynical-gullible-american-man/686079/

Halifax2TheMax

Tim Simmons said:

I struggled to decide which thread to put this in (after several posts over the last few weeks), but this one is probably the most appropriate. 

Welcome to the lexicon Gullisism. A portmanteau of gullible and cynicism. Of which a particular swath of Americans suffer from. 

I highly recommend this article (there may be a captcha, but it blocks the pop ups and ads) if you have a free Saturday evening or a nice Sunday morning, please read. Really enlightening. 

https://archive.is/20260309115923/https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/03/cynical-gullible-american-man/686079/

*The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

It’s too late, much too late. The US may never recover from what is happening. There’s still 1,036 days to go and even then……

Someone posted that every day is dumber than the previous. I’d argue that every day is 3Xs dumber than the previous. Won’t be long when it’ll be 10X. Good fucking luck.

lastexitlondon

Definitely X10 now

HughFreakingDillon

This is an informative article. At the time, I was in favour of my workplace mandating the vaccine or lose your job. I now believe that is wrong. Sure, vaccine injuries were rare. But I've never been an "only care if it happens to me" person, so I need to be consistent here. I've changed my stance on that. 

‘My organs shut down, now I’m in a wheelchair’: The lives ruined by Covid jabs

Halifax2TheMax

HughFreakingDillon said:

This is an informative article. At the time, I was in favour of my workplace mandating the vaccine or lose your job. I now believe that is wrong. Sure, vaccine injuries were rare. But I've never been an "only care if it happens to me" person, so I need to be consistent here. I've changed my stance on that. 

‘My organs shut down, now I’m in a wheelchair’: The lives ruined by Covid jabs

*The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

You lost me at “jab”. And this passage from the link:

While these reports are not proof of the Covid vaccines causing serious harm and death,

PJ_Soul

HughFreakingDillon said:

This is an informative article. At the time, I was in favour of my workplace mandating the vaccine or lose your job. I now believe that is wrong. Sure, vaccine injuries were rare. But I've never been an "only care if it happens to me" person, so I need to be consistent here. I've changed my stance on that. 

‘My organs shut down, now I’m in a wheelchair’: The lives ruined by Covid jabs

Yeah, I cannot agree with that even a little bit. Even if a minuscule fraction of people had negative effects from the vaccine, the greater good for society is what's most important in this context. Public safety always has to come before individual rights. That is the ONLY time that is true, and it was true for the COVID "jab".  

The story I have is about my mom's friend's sister. She was a nurse in a hospital, and refused the "jab", and before she was prevented from working, she caught COVID at work, very likely spread it around for a while to immunocompromised people who were hospitalized, and then died. What an idiot. 

HughFreakingDillon

this was being mandated when we were all still working from home. It made no logical sense to make people lose their jobs when we could still work from home. This was a choice, at least in my company, to bring people back to the office when it wasn't necessary. 

I never mentioned the broader sense of society as a whole. Only my particular workplace and their policy. 

PJ_Soul

HughFreakingDillon said:

this was being mandated when we were all still working from home. It made no logical sense to make people lose their jobs when we could still work from home. This was a choice, at least in my company, to bring people back to the office when it wasn't necessary. 

I never mentioned the broader sense of society as a whole. Only my particular workplace and their policy. 

But they could still go out in public, plus your workplace likely assumed you'd be coming back at some point. 

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

This is an informative article. At the time, I was in favour of my workplace mandating the vaccine or lose your job. I now believe that is wrong. Sure, vaccine injuries were rare. But I've never been an "only care if it happens to me" person, so I need to be consistent here. I've changed my stance on that. 

‘My organs shut down, now I’m in a wheelchair’: The lives ruined by Covid jabs

Yeah, I cannot agree with that even a little bit. Even if a minuscule fraction of people had negative effects from the vaccine, the greater good for society is what's most important in this context. Public safety always has to come before individual rights. That is the ONLY time that is true, and it was true for the COVID "jab".  

The story I have is about my mom's friend's sister. She was a nurse in a hospital, and refused the "jab", and before she was prevented from working, she caught COVID at work, very likely spread it around for a while to immunocompromised people who were hospitalized, and then died. What an idiot. 

and there are several stories of people lining up for the "jab", then ended up dying or suffering long term consequences as a result. I try to put myself in all shoes, and man, I'd be pretty pissed if one of my loved ones was one of the ones that died as a result of those policies. 

And I have an immunocompromised daughter and mother. 

I think certain industries it made sense to mandate. Like health care. I worked in a bloody office. No need to come in. But they mandated that we come back and get the vaccine or lose your job. In hindsight, that was a choice based on the government (our board is all government officials) wanting people back downtown for the sake of the economy. We already had the infrastructure in place to work from home. 

PJ_Soul

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

This is an informative article. At the time, I was in favour of my workplace mandating the vaccine or lose your job. I now believe that is wrong. Sure, vaccine injuries were rare. But I've never been an "only care if it happens to me" person, so I need to be consistent here. I've changed my stance on that. 

‘My organs shut down, now I’m in a wheelchair’: The lives ruined by Covid jabs

Yeah, I cannot agree with that even a little bit. Even if a minuscule fraction of people had negative effects from the vaccine, the greater good for society is what's most important in this context. Public safety always has to come before individual rights. That is the ONLY time that is true, and it was true for the COVID "jab".  

The story I have is about my mom's friend's sister. She was a nurse in a hospital, and refused the "jab", and before she was prevented from working, she caught COVID at work, very likely spread it around for a while to immunocompromised people who were hospitalized, and then died. What an idiot. 

and there are several stories of people lining up for the "jab", then ended up dying or suffering long term consequences as a result. I try to put myself in all shoes, and man, I'd be pretty pissed if one of my loved ones was one of the ones that died as a result of those policies. 

And I have an immunocompromised daughter and mother. 

I think certain industries it made sense to mandate. Like health care. I worked in a bloody office. No need to come in. But they mandated that we come back and get the vaccine or lose your job. In hindsight, that was a choice based on the government (our board is all government officials) wanting people back downtown for the sake of the economy. We already had the infrastructure in place to work from home. 

I still can't agree. I actually think it should have been mandated to all people by the government itself, for everyone. If my loved out had died as a result of a vaccine I would be upset obviously, but I wouldn't be mad about the mandate, because I understand the law of averages, especially when it comes to medical treatments, and believe strongly in vaccinations. I think it should be illegal, and punishable by prison time, not to vaccinate your children too. 

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

This is an informative article. At the time, I was in favour of my workplace mandating the vaccine or lose your job. I now believe that is wrong. Sure, vaccine injuries were rare. But I've never been an "only care if it happens to me" person, so I need to be consistent here. I've changed my stance on that. 

‘My organs shut down, now I’m in a wheelchair’: The lives ruined by Covid jabs

Yeah, I cannot agree with that even a little bit. Even if a minuscule fraction of people had negative effects from the vaccine, the greater good for society is what's most important in this context. Public safety always has to come before individual rights. That is the ONLY time that is true, and it was true for the COVID "jab".  

The story I have is about my mom's friend's sister. She was a nurse in a hospital, and refused the "jab", and before she was prevented from working, she caught COVID at work, very likely spread it around for a while to immunocompromised people who were hospitalized, and then died. What an idiot. 

and there are several stories of people lining up for the "jab", then ended up dying or suffering long term consequences as a result. I try to put myself in all shoes, and man, I'd be pretty pissed if one of my loved ones was one of the ones that died as a result of those policies. 

And I have an immunocompromised daughter and mother. 

I think certain industries it made sense to mandate. Like health care. I worked in a bloody office. No need to come in. But they mandated that we come back and get the vaccine or lose your job. In hindsight, that was a choice based on the government (our board is all government officials) wanting people back downtown for the sake of the economy. We already had the infrastructure in place to work from home. 

I still can't agree. I actually think it should have been mandated to all people by the government itself, for everyone. If my loved out had died as a result of a vaccine I would be upset obviously, but I wouldn't be mad about the mandate, because I understand the law of averages, especially when it comes to medical treatments, and believe strongly in vaccinations. I think it should be illegal, and punishable by prison time, not to vaccinate your children too. 

forced vaccinations? you realize that's a pretty extreme view?

PJ_Soul

I do, and I stand by it. I would also support children being removed from parents and given vaccines (and given back after). So yeah, my views on vaccines are extreme, but for good reasons. They get more extreme kind of as a mirror put up to anti-vaxxers getting more extreme. 

Bentleyspop

HughFreakingDillon said:

This is an informative article. At the time, I was in favour of my workplace mandating the vaccine or lose your job. I now believe that is wrong. Sure, vaccine injuries were rare. But I've never been an "only care if it happens to me" person, so I need to be consistent here. I've changed my stance on that. 

‘My organs shut down, now I’m in a wheelchair’: The lives ruined by Covid jabs

The use of the anyi-vax dogwhistle "jab" indicates that this is definitely not a peer reviewed article from a medical journal. 

23scidoo

lol

OnWis97

It's an interesting balance. Vaccine injuries do happen. So, with something MMR to go to school do the societal benefits outweigh those instances? Not in the US, where we don't really believe in societal benefits but probably so in other countries. 

But an unproven vaccination with no history of benefits or risks to lean on? No. It was bad policy; not its existence but the requirements be they from government or other employers. 

HughFreakingDillon

Bentleyspop said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

This is an informative article. At the time, I was in favour of my workplace mandating the vaccine or lose your job. I now believe that is wrong. Sure, vaccine injuries were rare. But I've never been an "only care if it happens to me" person, so I need to be consistent here. I've changed my stance on that. 

‘My organs shut down, now I’m in a wheelchair’: The lives ruined by Covid jabs

The use of the anyi-vax dogwhistle "jab" indicates that this is definitely not a peer reviewed article from a medical journal. 

it's journalism, not a scientific paper. it cites actual data. not sure why people are dismissing it because of the use of the word "jab". vaxxers and anti-vaxxers have both been using that term. 

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

I do, and I stand by it. I would also support children being removed from parents and given vaccines (and given back after). So yeah, my views on vaccines are extreme, but for good reasons. They get more extreme kind of as a mirror put up to anti-vaxxers getting more extreme. 

"extreme views" followed by "good reasons" are pretty contradictory. extreme views generally don't stem from good reasons. 

HughFreakingDillon

OnWis97 said:

It's an interesting balance. Vaccine injuries do happen. So, with something MMR to go to school do the societal benefits outweigh those instances? Not in the US, where we don't really believe in societal benefits but probably so in other countries. 

But an unproven vaccination with no history of benefits or risks to lean on? No. It was bad policy; not its existence but the requirements be they from government or other employers. 

they did the necessary control groups. it wasn't "rushed". the technology was not new, and had been used for years with no adverse effects. Introducing a dead virus as vaccination has been done for decades. but there is always a risk for vaccine injury. 

had it not been mandated on a global scale by workplaces and in government policy, would we still be in cyclical lockdowns 6 years later? who knows. would we have had many more millions die without those measures? likely. 

I want to keep stressing that my original comment was in context of my workplace situation only. It wasn't necessary with the technology that was available. it was only done for economic reasons. 

PJ_Soul

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

I do, and I stand by it. I would also support children being removed from parents and given vaccines (and given back after). So yeah, my views on vaccines are extreme, but for good reasons. They get more extreme kind of as a mirror put up to anti-vaxxers getting more extreme. 

"extreme views" followed by "good reasons" are pretty contradictory. extreme views generally don't stem from good reasons. 

I think this is literally the only time it's got good reason, because it's the only there where the actions of very, very few could very literally hurt and kill many, many other people. I would never say the same kinds of things about anything else, because such measures aren't called for in any other circumstance. The only reason my view seems extreme is because it would force people to do something they don't want to do.... but if that will prevent the death of many, many people, why isn't that reasonable? I think it is. 

OnWis97

HughFreakingDillon said:

OnWis97 said:

It's an interesting balance. Vaccine injuries do happen. So, with something MMR to go to school do the societal benefits outweigh those instances? Not in the US, where we don't really believe in societal benefits but probably so in other countries. 

But an unproven vaccination with no history of benefits or risks to lean on? No. It was bad policy; not its existence but the requirements be they from government or other employers. 

they did the necessary control groups. it wasn't "rushed". the technology was not new, and had been used for years with no adverse effects. Introducing a dead virus as vaccination has been done for decades. but there is always a risk for vaccine injury. 

had it not been mandated on a global scale by workplaces and in government policy, would we still be in cyclical lockdowns 6 years later? who knows. would we have had many more millions die without those measures? likely. 

I want to keep stressing that my original comment was in context of my workplace situation only. It wasn't necessary with the technology that was available. it was only done for economic reasons. 

In the US, no. We'll never take another broad precaution again. 

I think most people, right or wrong, see a vaccine that nobody took until 2021 as experimental. And also right or wrong they see it as not having been effective, particularly as we got new variants and the vax seemed to help only with severity.

It is funny though that early on someone (Fauci?) said that if all the precautions are successful, people will say that we didn't need them. They were not all successful. We still had a LOT of deaths from (not "with") covid. If we'd done literally nothing, it would have been catastrophic.  

As for the italicized, I'm pretty much with you anyway. My office job never had a requirement. They brought us back into the office faster than I would have if I were king. THAT's the precaution I'd have taken; jab if you want, but work from home for much longer. 

We act like it's over, seemingly because we wish it was over. Covid still exists and it still kills. Even worse, it's likely to have long-term negative impacts, which I'm betting will be blamed on the vaccination and not the illness.