Viruses / Vaccines 2

tempo_n_groove · October 2022

I was wondering when this was going to happen. I think if this goes to the Supreme Court it sticks.

https://nypost.com/2022/10/25/judge-tosses-nyc-vaccine-mandate-orders-workers-backpay/

static111 · October 2022

I hope the rest of the country follows suit. Trying to remove people from participating in society and having a livelihood for their family always seemed like a bad and divisive move. Especially when we found out that covid still transmits between vaccinated people, natural immunity actually works and the people with the worst outcomes were the elderly and those with preexisting conditions. Oh and that we may have had so many more deaths here partly because health insurance companies have taken over healthcare and private equity companies have closed hospitals in the name of maximizing profits while reducing general medicine availability in favor of revenue generating electives and out patient procedures. At least it is easy and doesn't require any thought to blame those people that had different ideas about the vaccines and pandemic.

HughFreakingDillon · October 2022

static111 said:

I hope the rest of the country follows suit. Trying to remove people from participating in society and having a livelihood for their family always seemed like a bad and divisive move. Especially when we found out that covid still transmits between vaccinated people, natural immunity actually works and the people with the worst outcomes were the elderly and those with preexisting conditions. Oh and that we may have had so many more deaths here partly because health insurance companies have taken over healthcare and private equity companies have closed hospitals in the name of maximizing profits while reducing general medicine availability in favor of revenue generating electives and out patient procedures. At least it is easy and doesn't require any thought to blame those people that had different ideas about the vaccines and pandemic.

“Several studies have provided evidence that vaccines are effective at preventing infection,” it states, “Uninfected people cannot transmit; therefore, the vaccines are also effective at preventing transmission.”

https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o298

static111 · October 2022

HughFreakingDillon said:

static111 said:

I hope the rest of the country follows suit. Trying to remove people from participating in society and having a livelihood for their family always seemed like a bad and divisive move. Especially when we found out that covid still transmits between vaccinated people, natural immunity actually works and the people with the worst outcomes were the elderly and those with preexisting conditions. Oh and that we may have had so many more deaths here partly because health insurance companies have taken over healthcare and private equity companies have closed hospitals in the name of maximizing profits while reducing general medicine availability in favor of revenue generating electives and out patient procedures. At least it is easy and doesn't require any thought to blame those people that had different ideas about the vaccines and pandemic.

“Several studies have provided evidence that vaccines are effective at preventing infection,” it states, “Uninfected people cannot transmit; therefore, the vaccines are also effective at preventing transmission.”

https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o298

Interesting you posted this as I never stated that being vaccinated does not cut down on transmission I stated that you can still spread covid even if vaccinated. By the same data you provided one could infer that unvaccinated individuals that are not infected also can't transmit, therefore being unvaccinated and uninfected is effective at preventing transmission. We are several years into this and people with up to 3 boosters are still getting and spreading covid. People that were never vaccinated are still getting and spreading covid and surviving. We are also at a point where severity of outcomes is much lower than at the start of the pandemic. I am vaccinated and was in favor of some of the more draconian public health measures that took place at the beginning. At this point I am really rethinking my stance. Now I am of the view that if you got the vaccine, great, if you didn't that's great too. It really is time to move on.

lastexitlondon · October 2022

Same as above. My stance has changed due to evidence based studies and everyone i know and have seen with covid.

cincybearcat · October 2022

static111 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

static111 said:

I hope the rest of the country follows suit. Trying to remove people from participating in society and having a livelihood for their family always seemed like a bad and divisive move. Especially when we found out that covid still transmits between vaccinated people, natural immunity actually works and the people with the worst outcomes were the elderly and those with preexisting conditions. Oh and that we may have had so many more deaths here partly because health insurance companies have taken over healthcare and private equity companies have closed hospitals in the name of maximizing profits while reducing general medicine availability in favor of revenue generating electives and out patient procedures. At least it is easy and doesn't require any thought to blame those people that had different ideas about the vaccines and pandemic.

“Several studies have provided evidence that vaccines are effective at preventing infection,” it states, “Uninfected people cannot transmit; therefore, the vaccines are also effective at preventing transmission.”

https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o298

Interesting you posted this as I never stated that being vaccinated does not cut down on transmission I stated that you can still spread covid even if vaccinated. By the same data you provided one could infer that unvaccinated individuals that are not infected also can't transmit, therefore being unvaccinated and uninfected is effective at preventing transmission. We are several years into this and people with up to 3 boosters are still getting and spreading covid. People that were never vaccinated are still getting and spreading covid and surviving. We are also at a point where severity of outcomes is much lower than at the start of the pandemic. I am vaccinated and was in favor of some of the more draconian public health measures that took place at the beginning. At this point I am really rethinking my stance. Now I am of the view that if you got the vaccine, great, if you didn't that's great too. It really is time to move on.

I wonder what would have happened had people not gotten the vaccine….if deaths would be up….if the risk to the elderly and at risk individuals would have been greater….

It’s a bit weird to think it’s ok for at risk people to just deal with it without the help of society. It would be really interesting though to see the multiverse of this…

HughFreakingDillon · October 2022

static111 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

static111 said:

I hope the rest of the country follows suit. Trying to remove people from participating in society and having a livelihood for their family always seemed like a bad and divisive move. Especially when we found out that covid still transmits between vaccinated people, natural immunity actually works and the people with the worst outcomes were the elderly and those with preexisting conditions. Oh and that we may have had so many more deaths here partly because health insurance companies have taken over healthcare and private equity companies have closed hospitals in the name of maximizing profits while reducing general medicine availability in favor of revenue generating electives and out patient procedures. At least it is easy and doesn't require any thought to blame those people that had different ideas about the vaccines and pandemic.

“Several studies have provided evidence that vaccines are effective at preventing infection,” it states, “Uninfected people cannot transmit; therefore, the vaccines are also effective at preventing transmission.”

https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o298

Interesting you posted this as I never stated that being vaccinated does not cut down on transmission I stated that you can still spread covid even if vaccinated. By the same data you provided one could infer that unvaccinated individuals that are not infected also can't transmit, therefore being unvaccinated and uninfected is effective at preventing transmission. We are several years into this and people with up to 3 boosters are still getting and spreading covid. People that were never vaccinated are still getting and spreading covid and surviving. We are also at a point where severity of outcomes is much lower than at the start of the pandemic. I am vaccinated and was in favor of some of the more draconian public health measures that took place at the beginning. At this point I am really rethinking my stance. Now I am of the view that if you got the vaccine, great, if you didn't that's great too. It really is time to move on.

so you agree being vaccinated does cut down transmission. and no, you can't infer the same of unvaxxed. you are more likely to not become infected if vaxxed as opposed to unvaxxed. simple science. proven science.

I really don't give a shit if anyone gets vaxxed at this point. I'm just stating what I've seen of the science as it evolves. In another thread I got attacked for asking someone to clarify some info (ironically being told I was ABOUT to attack that person, like some preemptive strike of some sort). But this person posted BS. And people should expect to be called out on it. every single time.

I'm not sure what you mean by "time to move on". you don't seem to be saying "don't get vaccinated" but if that's not it, what are you inferring? At least where I am, there are zero covid restrictions in place, and haven't been for months. save for doctor and dental offices. Everything is completely mask-optional and no vaccine requirements.

static111 · October 2022

HughFreakingDillon said:

static111 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

static111 said:

I hope the rest of the country follows suit. Trying to remove people from participating in society and having a livelihood for their family always seemed like a bad and divisive move. Especially when we found out that covid still transmits between vaccinated people, natural immunity actually works and the people with the worst outcomes were the elderly and those with preexisting conditions. Oh and that we may have had so many more deaths here partly because health insurance companies have taken over healthcare and private equity companies have closed hospitals in the name of maximizing profits while reducing general medicine availability in favor of revenue generating electives and out patient procedures. At least it is easy and doesn't require any thought to blame those people that had different ideas about the vaccines and pandemic.

“Several studies have provided evidence that vaccines are effective at preventing infection,” it states, “Uninfected people cannot transmit; therefore, the vaccines are also effective at preventing transmission.”

https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o298

Interesting you posted this as I never stated that being vaccinated does not cut down on transmission I stated that you can still spread covid even if vaccinated. By the same data you provided one could infer that unvaccinated individuals that are not infected also can't transmit, therefore being unvaccinated and uninfected is effective at preventing transmission. We are several years into this and people with up to 3 boosters are still getting and spreading covid. People that were never vaccinated are still getting and spreading covid and surviving. We are also at a point where severity of outcomes is much lower than at the start of the pandemic. I am vaccinated and was in favor of some of the more draconian public health measures that took place at the beginning. At this point I am really rethinking my stance. Now I am of the view that if you got the vaccine, great, if you didn't that's great too. It really is time to move on.

so you agree being vaccinated does cut down transmission. and no, you can't infer the same of unvaxxed. you are more likely to not become infected if vaxxed as opposed to unvaxxed. simple science. proven science.

I really don't give a shit if anyone gets vaxxed at this point. I'm just stating what I've seen of the science as it evolves. In another thread I got attacked for asking someone to clarify some info (ironically being told I was ABOUT to attack that person, like some preemptive strike of some sort). But this person posted BS. And people should expect to be called out on it. every single time.

I'm not sure what you mean by "time to move on". you don't seem to be saying "don't get vaccinated" but if that's not it, what are you inferring? At least where I am, there are zero covid restrictions in place, and haven't been for months. save for doctor and dental offices. Everything is completely mask-optional and no vaccine requirements.

You are also less likely to become infected with natural immunity, albeit not to as great of a degree as vaccination.

"Time to move on" from judging the unvaxxed. It has really gotten us nowhere and at best has contributed to deepening the divide in so called western liberal societies. I'm especially referring to the decision to reinstate those who were forced out of work and give them back pay. Seems like a good idea. I think some of these things like forced unemployment contributed to more distrust and as I said deepened the division or created another reason for division in our currently fragile society, in addition to downstream effects like adding to supply chain issues and lack of staff for in demand public facing jobs like sanitation, fire, policing, healthcare(yes even some healthcare professionals chose to be unvaccinated) etc. These people aren't Nazis or Trump Supporters or alt rights as a group, it is many different parts of society, naturalists, homeopaths, hippies as well as all the rest. It is easy to vilify and point blame at these people specifically after a rough time where we were all scared and filled with uncertainty, but they didn't create the disease or the underlying lack of infrastructure to deal with it more effectively.

Knowing what we know now it seems like allowing those who would like the vaccine to have access, prioritizing access to older and at risk people with underlying conditions while letting those with different choices as it comes to healthcare fend for themselves seems pretty ok. If people wish to be at a greater risk, or believe they have a superior immune system, good for them. With the vaccines being as effective as they are it seems that the unvaccinated are ok with their risk factor, so why shouldn't the rest of us.

If it comes to a matter of hospital beds and staffing, look at the statistics regarding the reduction of hospital beds in western countries and especially in the US since the 70s and how this phenomenon correlates with corporate mergers in the healthcare industry meant to increase profit and the rise of the health insurance industry and revenue generating outpatient procedures. We base our health care system on markets and investor dividends rather than public health.

I know people in Texas who would regularly be dyed in the wool Democrat voters that will be voting for Abbott because they don't want the state to shut down if covid ramps up like so many D governed states have in the past. I think this is ridiculous of course, but these are lost Beto votes because some otherwise liberal people viewed some of the covid measures as government overreach. I'm not going to stop talking to these people, because even though I don't agree with them I understand where they are coming from.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/04/08/were-short-hospital-beds-because-washington-let-too-many-hospitals-merge/

"America’s now-disastrous lack of hospital capacity is no accident. It is, in part, a result of consolidation over the past 30 years that concentrated our health-care system in wealthy cities and suburbs, where the prevalence of expensive insurance plans allowed big health systems to rake in profits. There have been more than 680 hospital mergers over the past decade, a trend that is likely to accelerate in the coming years. It involves mergers between hospital systems, as well as large hospital conglomerates’ takeovers of rural hospitals, physician offices, ambulatory surgical centers and other outpatient clinics.

Under a Clinton-era rule, the Federal Trade Commission, which since the mid-1970s has been in charge of policing the health-care industry, will not challenge a merger in which either of the hospital groups has fewer than 100 beds, sidelining the agency when big hospital groups snap up smaller rural facilities. Edith Ramirez, the head of the FTC during the Obama administration, said the agency challenged just 1 percent of all hospital deals.

The wave of takeovers the FTC oversaw has contributed to the loss of rural hospitals and a decline in the number of beds across the country. Today, there are about 15 percent fewer community hospitals in the United States than in the mid-1970s; since 2010, about a dozen merged rural hospitals have shuttered. The impact of hospital consolidation is particularly painful in the context of the pandemic: Mergers and closures have contributed to the reduction in hospital beds in the United States, from around 1.5 million in 1975 to just more than 900,000 in 2017.

Further exacerbating the effects of these mergers, at least 120 rural hospitals have shuttered over the past decade. The loss of providers is a result of a number of factors, including shrinking populations in rural areas. But consolidation has played a part. The Affordable Care Act increased the pace of consolidation, and the hospital industry is now highly concentrated in 90 percent of all U.S. cities, according to a Commonwealth Fund study. These mergers and rural closures have moved decision-making further and further away from the communities most affected.

Rural hospitals in particular have struggled for myriad reasons, including the decision of many Southern and Midwestern states to not expand Medicaid under the Affordable Care Act. In fact, none of the six states with the greatest number of hospital closures since 2010 (Texas, Tennessee, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi and North Carolina) expanded Medicaid, resulting in a health landscape where patients are in worse health and have fewer providers to treat them.

Recent studies have shown that even before covid-19 began to strain rural health systems, 1 out of every 5 rural hospitals was at risk of closing because of financial pressure. Part of this pressure comes from sicker patient populations that are more likely to rely on Medicare or Medicaid, which have lower reimbursement rates than private insurance does. That has made for an underlying health crisis upon which the covid-19 pandemic is now layered. If hospitals had not undergone such sweeping consolidation over the past decades, our health-care system probably would be better equipped for the outbreak now. “It is definitely a piece of the overall puzzle,” says Dunc Williams, who researched rural hospital mergers and closures at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.

This trend is just one example of the increase in corporate power that has characterized the economy over the past few decades. It has also hurt patient care and driven up patient and insurer costs — which means more cash for already-wealthy hospital conglomerates and the executives who run them.

The latest hospital merger wave has been fueled by the financial sector’s influence in the health sector. Investors have pressured hospitals to cut costs, buy their rivals and then raise profits by imposing a largely outpatient health-care model. Outpatient hospital prices have grown four times faster than what doctors charge — a trend that has both reduced beds and propelled hospitals’ frenzied takeover of independent physician groups. Between 2016 and 2018, hospitals acquired more than 8,000 doctors groups."

23scidoo · October 2022

HughFreakingDillon said:

static111 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

static111 said:

I hope the rest of the country follows suit. Trying to remove people from participating in society and having a livelihood for their family always seemed like a bad and divisive move. Especially when we found out that covid still transmits between vaccinated people, natural immunity actually works and the people with the worst outcomes were the elderly and those with preexisting conditions. Oh and that we may have had so many more deaths here partly because health insurance companies have taken over healthcare and private equity companies have closed hospitals in the name of maximizing profits while reducing general medicine availability in favor of revenue generating electives and out patient procedures. At least it is easy and doesn't require any thought to blame those people that had different ideas about the vaccines and pandemic.

“Several studies have provided evidence that vaccines are effective at preventing infection,” it states, “Uninfected people cannot transmit; therefore, the vaccines are also effective at preventing transmission.”

https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o298

Interesting you posted this as I never stated that being vaccinated does not cut down on transmission I stated that you can still spread covid even if vaccinated. By the same data you provided one could infer that unvaccinated individuals that are not infected also can't transmit, therefore being unvaccinated and uninfected is effective at preventing transmission. We are several years into this and people with up to 3 boosters are still getting and spreading covid. People that were never vaccinated are still getting and spreading covid and surviving. We are also at a point where severity of outcomes is much lower than at the start of the pandemic. I am vaccinated and was in favor of some of the more draconian public health measures that took place at the beginning. At this point I am really rethinking my stance. Now I am of the view that if you got the vaccine, great, if you didn't that's great too. It really is time to move on.

so you agree being vaccinated does cut down transmission. and no, you can't infer the same of unvaxxed. you are more likely to not become infected if vaxxed as opposed to unvaxxed. simple science. proven science.

I really don't give a shit if anyone gets vaxxed at this point. I'm just stating what I've seen of the science as it evolves. In another thread I got attacked for asking someone to clarify some info (ironically being told I was ABOUT to attack that person, like some preemptive strike of some sort). But this person posted BS. And people should expect to be called out on it. every single time.

I'm not sure what you mean by "time to move on". you don't seem to be saying "don't get vaccinated" but if that's not it, what are you inferring? At least where I am, there are zero covid restrictions in place, and haven't been for months. save for doctor and dental offices. Everything is completely mask-optional and no vaccine requirements.

BS??

tempo_n_groove · October 2022

At this point I too don't care if you're vaxxed or not.

In the beginning when not much was known about it we all did what we thought was right. Maybe it was a little obsessive, I mean I wiped down EVERYTHING i bought at the supermarket...

Now, I don't give a shit.

josevolution · October 2022

Now it’s about just talking care of number 1 for me and family, wear mask and keep safe, I’m just getting over my 1st bout with COVID and even though I’m triple vaccinated it wasn’t anything to just brush off.

tempo_n_groove · October 2022

josevolution said:

Now it’s about just talking care of number 1 for me and family, wear mask and keep safe, I’m just getting over my 1st bout with COVID and even though I’m triple vaccinated it wasn’t anything to just brush off.

How bad was it Jose? I was sick for only a day, sluggish for two after that then fine.

It amazes me how this hits people differently.

josevolution · October 2022

tempo_n_groove said:

josevolution said:

Now it’s about just talking care of number 1 for me and family, wear mask and keep safe, I’m just getting over my 1st bout with COVID and even though I’m triple vaccinated it wasn’t anything to just brush off.

How bad was it Jose? I was sick for only a day, sluggish for two after that then fine.

It amazes me how this hits people differently.

It def took me by surprise at how my head was affected! Today is my 6th day out and last night I still felt cloudy and still have a slight cough

static111 · October 2022

tempo_n_groove said:

At this point I too don't care if you're vaxxed or not.

In the beginning when not much was known about it we all did what we thought was right. Maybe it was a little obsessive, I mean I wiped down EVERYTHING i bought at the supermarket...

Now, I don't give a shit.

The same. Those first few weeks I was wiping everydamn thing down and then maybe even wiping it down again when I pulled it out of the fridge.

tempo_n_groove · October 2022

josevolution said:

tempo_n_groove said:

josevolution said:

Now it’s about just talking care of number 1 for me and family, wear mask and keep safe, I’m just getting over my 1st bout with COVID and even though I’m triple vaccinated it wasn’t anything to just brush off.

How bad was it Jose? I was sick for only a day, sluggish for two after that then fine.

It amazes me how this hits people differently.

It def took me by surprise at how my head was affected! Today is my 6th day out and last night I still felt cloudy and still have a slight cough

I had a dumb cough two months after so possibly expect that. The fog lifted for me after a few days thankfully. I know others had/still have it. Let's hope yours goes away soon.

Glad you're feeling better though.

josevolution · October 2022

tempo_n_groove said:

josevolution said:

tempo_n_groove said:

josevolution said:

Now it’s about just talking care of number 1 for me and family, wear mask and keep safe, I’m just getting over my 1st bout with COVID and even though I’m triple vaccinated it wasn’t anything to just brush off.

How bad was it Jose? I was sick for only a day, sluggish for two after that then fine.

It amazes me how this hits people differently.

It def took me by surprise at how my head was affected! Today is my 6th day out and last night I still felt cloudy and still have a slight cough

I had a dumb cough two months after so possibly expect that. The fog lifted for me after a few days thankfully. I know others had/still have it. Let's hope yours goes away soon.

Glad you're feeling better though.

Thanks Chris! My wife has gotten it twice in three months I def don’t want it again so I’ll be careful about my whereabouts.

tempo_n_groove · October 2022

josevolution said:

tempo_n_groove said:

josevolution said:

tempo_n_groove said:

josevolution said:

Now it’s about just talking care of number 1 for me and family, wear mask and keep safe, I’m just getting over my 1st bout with COVID and even though I’m triple vaccinated it wasn’t anything to just brush off.

How bad was it Jose? I was sick for only a day, sluggish for two after that then fine.

It amazes me how this hits people differently.

It def took me by surprise at how my head was affected! Today is my 6th day out and last night I still felt cloudy and still have a slight cough

I had a dumb cough two months after so possibly expect that. The fog lifted for me after a few days thankfully. I know others had/still have it. Let's hope yours goes away soon.

Glad you're feeling better though.

Thanks Chris! My wife has gotten it twice in three months I def don’t want it again so I’ll be careful about my whereabouts.

Twice in 3 months? I thought immunity lasted longer than that? Wow.

mickeyrat · October 2022

tempo_n_groove said:

josevolution said:

tempo_n_groove said:

josevolution said:

tempo_n_groove said:

josevolution said:

Now it’s about just talking care of number 1 for me and family, wear mask and keep safe, I’m just getting over my 1st bout with COVID and even though I’m triple vaccinated it wasn’t anything to just brush off.

How bad was it Jose? I was sick for only a day, sluggish for two after that then fine.

It amazes me how this hits people differently.

It def took me by surprise at how my head was affected! Today is my 6th day out and last night I still felt cloudy and still have a slight cough

I had a dumb cough two months after so possibly expect that. The fog lifted for me after a few days thankfully. I know others had/still have it. Let's hope yours goes away soon.

Glad you're feeling better though.

Thanks Chris! My wife has gotten it twice in three months I def don’t want it again so I’ll be careful about my whereabouts.

Twice in 3 months? I thought immunity lasted longer than that? Wow.

suppose variant comes into play.

although my doc suggested 6 months between boosters or booster 3 months after postive infection.

josevolution · October 2022

mickeyrat said:

tempo_n_groove said:

josevolution said:

tempo_n_groove said:

josevolution said:

tempo_n_groove said:

josevolution said:

Now it’s about just talking care of number 1 for me and family, wear mask and keep safe, I’m just getting over my 1st bout with COVID and even though I’m triple vaccinated it wasn’t anything to just brush off.

How bad was it Jose? I was sick for only a day, sluggish for two after that then fine.

It amazes me how this hits people differently.

It def took me by surprise at how my head was affected! Today is my 6th day out and last night I still felt cloudy and still have a slight cough

I had a dumb cough two months after so possibly expect that. The fog lifted for me after a few days thankfully. I know others had/still have it. Let's hope yours goes away soon.

Glad you're feeling better though.

Thanks Chris! My wife has gotten it twice in three months I def don’t want it again so I’ll be careful about my whereabouts.

Twice in 3 months? I thought immunity lasted longer than that? Wow.

suppose variant comes into play.

although my doc suggested 6 months between boosters or booster 3 months after postive infection.

Yep now I have to wait 3 months to get my 2nd booster so does my wife, I can get the flu shot on Monday when I go back to work.

HughFreakingDillon · October 2022

static111 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

At this point I too don't care if you're vaxxed or not.

In the beginning when not much was known about it we all did what we thought was right. Maybe it was a little obsessive, I mean I wiped down EVERYTHING i bought at the supermarket...

Now, I don't give a shit.

The same. Those first few weeks I was wiping everydamn thing down and then maybe even wiping it down again when I pulled it out of the fridge.

I was washing and sanitizing my hands more than usual, but that's about it. I wasn't wiping anything down that I couldn't tell was dirty.

I think you're probably right about the forced unemployment thing. At the time, I think it was justified because of what we knew/didn't know during that time period. Too many people are judging last year's actions with this year's knowledge, and that just doesn't make any sense. But I have no issue with back pay for those that lost their jobs.

Oddly, my workplace STILL advertises job postings with a vaxxed requirement, which surprises me, especially with the job market today, plus, they aren't exactly forcing current employees from proving they've gotten boosters, so someone who got one dose 2 years ago is at the same immunity level as a non vaxxed, so it's pretty stupid. Unless they are just keeping it that way in case of a new surge/variant/etc. Not sure.

Viruses / Vaccines 2

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