A passing thought from Dave Abbruzzese

@JH6506, I couldn't have said it better myself. 

DewieCox said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

DewieCox said:

F Me In The Brain said:

How many other musicians make such a big deal out of being kicked out of a band 20+ years later?
There are likely examples but I don't know any.  

I think it’s about as easy naming someone from a band that is successful after their daparture.

There's plenty of examples of that....

Peter Gabriel after leaving Genesis.

Ozzy Osbourne after leaving Black Sabbath.

Dr. Dre and Ice Cube after leaving NWA.

Beyoncé and Justin Timberlake after leaving their respective pop groups.

I meant band’s success…but an interesting flip of the scenario. I bet there was some bitterness from the bands when those folks went onto even bigger success solo. 

I’d imagine if Dave A latched onto another successful band it would’ve ate at some of PJ boys when their popularity kinda stagnated in early 2000s and/or it possibly would’ve raised the likelihood of a guest spot.

I see, so you're looking for scenarios where someone leaves the band, but the band goes onto great heights without them. 

Syd Barrett and Pink Floyd is one....not that Syd probably gave a crap at that point.

Even though they were (in my opinion) a better band with Peter Gabriel, Genesis went on to have a lot of success without him. And even though Van Halen was (in everybody's opinion) a better band with Roth, they had a lot of success without him. 

The worst must be leaving or getting kicked out of a band right before they go onto great success. Pete Best, Dave Krusen, Dave Mustaine. 

Ledbetterman10 said:

DewieCox said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

DewieCox said:

F Me In The Brain said:

How many other musicians make such a big deal out of being kicked out of a band 20+ years later?
There are likely examples but I don't know any.  

I think it’s about as easy naming someone from a band that is successful after their daparture.

There's plenty of examples of that....

Peter Gabriel after leaving Genesis.

Ozzy Osbourne after leaving Black Sabbath.

Dr. Dre and Ice Cube after leaving NWA.

Beyoncé and Justin Timberlake after leaving their respective pop groups.

I meant band’s success…but an interesting flip of the scenario. I bet there was some bitterness from the bands when those folks went onto even bigger success solo. 

I’d imagine if Dave A latched onto another successful band it would’ve ate at some of PJ boys when their popularity kinda stagnated in early 2000s and/or it possibly would’ve raised the likelihood of a guest spot.

I see, so you're looking for scenarios where someone leaves the band, but the band goes onto great heights without them. 

Syd Barrett and Pink Floyd is one....not that Syd probably gave a crap at that point.

Even though they were (in my opinion) a better band with Peter Gabriel, Genesis went on to have a lot of success without him. And even though Van Halen was (in everybody's opinion) a better band with Roth, they had a lot of success without him. 

The worst must be leaving or getting kicked out of a band right before they go onto great success. Pete Best, Dave Krusen, Dave Mustaine. 

I could be mistaken, but I was always under the impression Krusen quit for personal reasons. 

Ledbetterman10 said:

Merkin Baller said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

DewieCox said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

DewieCox said:

F Me In The Brain said:

How many other musicians make such a big deal out of being kicked out of a band 20+ years later?
There are likely examples but I don't know any.  

I think it’s about as easy naming someone from a band that is successful after their daparture.

There's plenty of examples of that....

Peter Gabriel after leaving Genesis.

Ozzy Osbourne after leaving Black Sabbath.

Dr. Dre and Ice Cube after leaving NWA.

Beyoncé and Justin Timberlake after leaving their respective pop groups.

I meant band’s success…but an interesting flip of the scenario. I bet there was some bitterness from the bands when those folks went onto even bigger success solo. 

I’d imagine if Dave A latched onto another successful band it would’ve ate at some of PJ boys when their popularity kinda stagnated in early 2000s and/or it possibly would’ve raised the likelihood of a guest spot.

I see, so you're looking for scenarios where someone leaves the band, but the band goes onto great heights without them. 

Syd Barrett and Pink Floyd is one....not that Syd probably gave a crap at that point.

Even though they were (in my opinion) a better band with Peter Gabriel, Genesis went on to have a lot of success without him. And even though Van Halen was (in everybody's opinion) a better band with Roth, they had a lot of success without him. 

The worst must be leaving or getting kicked out of a band right before they go onto great success. Pete Best, Dave Krusen, Dave Mustaine. 

I could be mistaken, but I was always under the impression Krusen quit for personal reasons. 

Yeah that’s leaving the band. 

Yup... yes it is, missed that part of your comment, thought we were talking about people who were kicked out. 

My bad. 

Spiritual_Chaos said:

JH6056 said:

So I don't question their approach to Dave, which as someone said re: Stone's comments, they clearly are not all unified in their views of or feelings about what went down with his departure. But they've figured out how to keep going despite whatever happened, and I hope Dave is figuring out or will figure out a way to do the same. No matter how wronged he feels he was, or still is, and no matter how if ALL the details were publicly known maybe more of us would say "Oh wow, you guys did him WRONG!", no matter any of that, the bottom line is it is HELLA UNHEALTHY and toxic for someone to dwell on something they can't change.  Can't change what happened in the past, and can't try to public shame a group of people into doing something in the present or future.  I feel bad for him more because of how much this still seems to eat at him than for what actually happened back then, whatever it was.  Because today is what he still has power over and he seems to spend a lot of his todays being bitter about yesterday.

For someone talking about "not having an idea of the full scope" of things you have no problems even coming to the conclusion that something is "HELLA UNHEALTHY" with caps.

Draw up a timeline from 1994 to now, and how much has Dave A even talked about Pearl Jam publicly?

Throwing out a snide comment now and then about someone who pulled a rug from underneath your feet and "wronged" you isn't dwelling, it's normal human behavior. No matter if it is 30 years ago. Thank god for people sniding in this world and not trying to lie themselves into some utopian Dr. Phil-way to live ones life. I would be fucking scared being around someone with that attitude regarding their exes, or a shitty boss or whatever parallel one would draw. Just snide like a normal person.

Gotta love it when someone accuses someone else of jumping to conclusions and making assumptions who then goes on to write nothing BUT assumptions and jumped-to conclusions. Alrighty then.

When you say "Thank god for people sniding in this world and not trying to lie themselves into some utopian Dr. Phil-way to live one's life", why don't you take your own advice about what you know and don't know and how easily you jump to a conclusion. I've spent 15+ years working with child abuse victims, all kinds of abuse. I know 15 yrs worth of examples of some of the most horrible things 1 human can and does do to another, and children no less. And you're going to reduce my comment (which I stand by 1000%) that it's unhealthy to dwell on something you can't change) as "Utopian Dr. Phil ways of living one's life"... Interesting. I'll simply say you're talking to one of the least "utopian" people on this planet.  But I'm also a realist, and I'd love to know what you disagree with about me saying it's toxic and unhealthy to dwell on what you can't change.  What about that statement is not true?

The fact that you don't think Dave A is "dwelling, or unhealthy" in his public comments over YEARS about this topic is your right and you clearly have very strong feelings about it.  Cool.

However what you cannot delete or try to discredit with accusations of "utopian sensibilities" is the clear record of public comments Dave has made over years that show he still has strong feelings about it and still spends time voicing publicly that he wants it to change, as evidenced today by the comment you yourself posted. He wants to change his dynamic and relationship to the band, and he says it clearly, publicly, repeatedly, over the years. No utopia-shaming by you changes what is out there in public record for everyone to read.

So many different views here on who did what, what was justified and what wasn't, what the right thing to do now is.  Cool, like I said, anything involving human relationships is sticky sticky sticky.  Rarely simple.  Everyone has a right to speaking what they think about a topic involving public figures on a message board (within the rules, of course).

But what you call "normal person snide-ness" in his public comments comes across to me as bitterness that, by asking or commenting publicly about it regularly over decades indicates he has indeed NOT moved on. 

"Moving on" doesn't mean you accept the past as "justified" or "fine".  It doesn't mean you don't have regrets or aren't still mad at your exes, be they romantic exes, band exes or business exes. And "moving on" doesn't mean you have to "get over it" on someone else's timetable. But since he's a public figure, no one should be surprised that 30 yrs later if he's still commenting on social media that he wishes they'd invite him back to play a couple of full album shows, no one should be surprised that to many that does seem like an unhealthy level of NOT moving on.

And just like you have a right to get all hot and bothered and hypocritical about what is ok and what's not in these conversations, I get to say what I said.

I can honestly say from my heart that I wish Dave A the best. I wish him peace and prosperity, and I hope he finds some work or purpose that turns out to be so compelling and fulfilling, he doesn't have time to be on social media raising the hope of a reunion with PJ.  Because I truly, in the deepest parts of my heart and experience, believe THAT is what moving on looks like at its best.  Given what you said above, you may well find that the most repulsive level of "utopian Dr. Phil views" there are. So be it.  I know what living making the most of today and tomorrow despite real world immense challenges looks like to me, and it's what I hope for & strive for for myself and for everyone else. 
 
Including you. But don't worry, just like you can't catch covid online, I don't think my nasty utopian Dr. Phil-seeming-to-you views are contagious. But then again, I wish they were...