HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

lastexitlondon said:

Why does it always get so hostile on this thread 
 Chill out

I know right?  We are all in this together after all...  Meaning, all of us, the plebes, are in this together.  "The" party and the elites play by a different set of rules.

I know there was a guy from Sweden around here at one time.  I keep seeing different information regarding Sweden and if you look at their numbers, they are pretty damn good.  Hoping you would not mind sharing what your country did so well that others are struggling with?  I have read things but who knows if they are true.  Thanks in advance!

Sweden did their own thing...I guess no mask, no lockdowns, schools stayed open...

They didn't cripple their economy.

Oh, the biggest supporters of lockdowns in Canada were Government employees working from home and those who were making more off government assistance than working...

I will exclude teachers...most teachers I worked with wanted in-person learning...

I love when people use the economy as an excuse, like it's better that people died rather than losing money. 

I interacted with a lot of folks who were so begrudged by lockdowns etc.  Some via text and some on social media. A cousin of mine who owns a restaurant lost his mind on the internet about the lockdowns...  which was understandable in terms of his bitterness.

Then he took it to the next level and started going on about mortality rates and how it didn't make sense to close down because according to him, only a small number would die.  And I asked a simple question of him: "So you would consider losing your father forever to keep your restaurant open?"   Got a lot of push back, but of course not an answer to that very simple question. 

My best friend was working in San Diego during all of this, and when California basically started opening everything, Ontario was closing everything.  He sent us a message almost bragging about his situation and how pissed we must be at our government. 

I immediately looked at the California death numbers compared to Ontario's per capita and I simply responded:  "Do you measure the success of a pandemic response on how quickly you get to go golfing and drinking? Or do you base it on how many people lost life and how many families were torn apart?"    I'm happy to say it did give him some pause. Ultimately I think if you go down the rabbit hole of society everyone would say the same thing:  Yes, we want freedom, yes we want to go to concerts, yes we want to get back to normal.  But no one, not one person would be willing to sacrifice a loved one to get it. And if I met that person who maybe did suggest they would be willing to sacrifice their father for example, I would then want to ask the father. 

Meltdown99 said:

mrussel1 said:

Meltdown99 said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

lastexitlondon said:

Why does it always get so hostile on this thread 
 Chill out

I know right?  We are all in this together after all...  Meaning, all of us, the plebes, are in this together.  "The" party and the elites play by a different set of rules.

I know there was a guy from Sweden around here at one time.  I keep seeing different information regarding Sweden and if you look at their numbers, they are pretty damn good.  Hoping you would not mind sharing what your country did so well that others are struggling with?  I have read things but who knows if they are true.  Thanks in advance!

Sweden did their own thing...I guess no mask, no lockdowns, schools stayed open...

They didn't cripple their economy.

Oh, the biggest supporters of lockdowns in Canada were Government employees working from home and those who were making more off government assistance than working...

I will exclude teachers...most teachers I worked with wanted in-person learning...

What is the death to GDP ratio that you find acceptable?

What was swedens compared to other countries.

I actually also meant to ask were they better off, worse off, or the same?

I do not not if they were.

Canada's official death toll is around 26 000, but some say it's double that?

Canada’s COVID-19 death toll may be double the official count: Report (citynews.ca)

There may be no way of knowing what worked best.

Err...I'll repost what I posted above.  You don't think there's a fair way to evaluate what worked best?

The Swedish numbers were terrible compared the surrounding Norse countries.  They only looked good compared to the US and other poorly managed countries.  

Cases per 100k:

Sweden - 10k
Finland - 1900
Norway - 2589

Deaths per 100k:

Sweden - 143
Finland - 18
Norway - 15

Not a success story.

Parksy said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

lastexitlondon said:

Why does it always get so hostile on this thread 
 Chill out

I know right?  We are all in this together after all...  Meaning, all of us, the plebes, are in this together.  "The" party and the elites play by a different set of rules.

I know there was a guy from Sweden around here at one time.  I keep seeing different information regarding Sweden and if you look at their numbers, they are pretty damn good.  Hoping you would not mind sharing what your country did so well that others are struggling with?  I have read things but who knows if they are true.  Thanks in advance!

Sweden did their own thing...I guess no mask, no lockdowns, schools stayed open...

They didn't cripple their economy.

Oh, the biggest supporters of lockdowns in Canada were Government employees working from home and those who were making more off government assistance than working...

I will exclude teachers...most teachers I worked with wanted in-person learning...

I love when people use the economy as an excuse, like it's better that people died rather than losing money. 

I interacted with a lot of folks who were so begrudged by lockdowns etc.  Some via text and some on social media. A cousin of mine who owns a restaurant lost his mind on the internet about the lockdowns...  which was understandable in terms of his bitterness.

Then he took it to the next level and started going on about mortality rates and how it didn't make sense to close down because according to him, only a small number would die.  And I asked a simple question of him: "So you would consider losing your father forever to keep your restaurant open?"   Got a lot of push back, but of course not an answer to that very simple question. 

My best friend was working in San Diego during all of this, and when California basically started opening everything, Ontario was closing everything.  He sent us a message almost bragging about his situation and how pissed we must be at our government. 

I immediately looked at the California death numbers compared to Ontario's per capita and I simply responded:  "Do you measure the success of a pandemic response on how quickly you get to go golfing and drinking? Or do you base it on how many people lost life and how many families were torn apart?"    I'm happy to say it did give him some pause. Ultimately I think if you go down the rabbit hole of society everyone would say the same thing:  Yes, we want freedom, yes we want to go to concerts, yes we want to get back to normal.  But no one, not one person would be willing to sacrifice a loved one to get it. And if I met that person who maybe did suggest they would be willing to sacrifice their father for example, I would then want to ask the father. 

most of them turn it into a "I'm fine, protect the elderly and the compromised, let the rest of society move on". like locking up the elderly and the compromised indefinitely would be a great solution. 

it really speaks to a bigger societal problem where a LOT of people consider their right to go a movie more important than someone else's right to be alive. 

HughFreakingDillon said:

Parksy said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

lastexitlondon said:

Why does it always get so hostile on this thread 
 Chill out

I know right?  We are all in this together after all...  Meaning, all of us, the plebes, are in this together.  "The" party and the elites play by a different set of rules.

I know there was a guy from Sweden around here at one time.  I keep seeing different information regarding Sweden and if you look at their numbers, they are pretty damn good.  Hoping you would not mind sharing what your country did so well that others are struggling with?  I have read things but who knows if they are true.  Thanks in advance!

Sweden did their own thing...I guess no mask, no lockdowns, schools stayed open...

They didn't cripple their economy.

Oh, the biggest supporters of lockdowns in Canada were Government employees working from home and those who were making more off government assistance than working...

I will exclude teachers...most teachers I worked with wanted in-person learning...

I love when people use the economy as an excuse, like it's better that people died rather than losing money. 

I interacted with a lot of folks who were so begrudged by lockdowns etc.  Some via text and some on social media. A cousin of mine who owns a restaurant lost his mind on the internet about the lockdowns...  which was understandable in terms of his bitterness.

Then he took it to the next level and started going on about mortality rates and how it didn't make sense to close down because according to him, only a small number would die.  And I asked a simple question of him: "So you would consider losing your father forever to keep your restaurant open?"   Got a lot of push back, but of course not an answer to that very simple question. 

My best friend was working in San Diego during all of this, and when California basically started opening everything, Ontario was closing everything.  He sent us a message almost bragging about his situation and how pissed we must be at our government. 

I immediately looked at the California death numbers compared to Ontario's per capita and I simply responded:  "Do you measure the success of a pandemic response on how quickly you get to go golfing and drinking? Or do you base it on how many people lost life and how many families were torn apart?"    I'm happy to say it did give him some pause. Ultimately I think if you go down the rabbit hole of society everyone would say the same thing:  Yes, we want freedom, yes we want to go to concerts, yes we want to get back to normal.  But no one, not one person would be willing to sacrifice a loved one to get it. And if I met that person who maybe did suggest they would be willing to sacrifice their father for example, I would then want to ask the father. 

most of them turn it into a "I'm fine, protect the elderly and the compromised, let the rest of society move on". like locking up the elderly and the compromised indefinitely would be a great solution. 

it really speaks to a bigger societal problem where a LOT of people consider their right to go a movie more important than someone else's right to be alive. 

100%.   Beyond the governments failures.. to which there are many in many jurisdictions...  This pandemic showed me a lot of people's true colours.   Within discussions about freedoms and economy etc. there seemed to be this weird inability for a lot of people to consider the human life element of this.  Regarding your comment.. I heard a lot of that too. "only affects the elderly and the high risk."   It's like "OK, so.......  we just stop caring about them?"  "We sacrifice them?" And for what?  Money?  Travel?    So many opinions and comments that seemed completely devoid of humanity and dignity. Complete lack of empathy.  And it always seemed stupid to me as well because no one would actually want to risk themselves or a loved one in the same case.  It's like that D-Bag from the movie Titanic who when he learned half of the people on the ship would die he's like "meh, not the better half."  Apparently there are a lot more of those types than I originally thought. 

I often had to say to people.. even in my family...  "Grandpa fought WWII for freedom, yes.  But it wasn't for your freedom to go get a professional haircut, and if you think it was....  you really really really need to read a history book." 

The data has to be normalized for population.  You can't evaluate it in raw numbers.  

More not great news. 

dankind said:

Let's first define the "we" doing "too much" testing: It's generally people who feel ill, particularly with Covid symptoms.

So, no, we're not testing too much. Probably too little from what I've observed anecdotally in a mostly Covid-conscious state.

That couldn’t be more wrong. Leave the US?, get a test…come back to the US…get a test….someone at work positive…get a test….you were within 6 feet of someone….get a test…..your kids school had a positive result….get them a test….the list goes on and on and on and on and on…..

mrussel1 said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

dankind said:

Let's first define the "we" doing "too much" testing: It's generally people who feel ill, particularly with Covid symptoms.

So, no, we're not testing too much. Probably too little from what I've observed anecdotally in a mostly Covid-conscious state.

I totally disagree with this statement.  All of these mandates are coming out and you have to show proof of vaccination to enter or.... a negative test!  If you get contact traced from school or work, you have to wait 14 days or show.... a negative test!

Why are we doing these things if there are no signs or symptoms?  Since I have been down this road, I know the responses are going to come back to asymptomatic spread, *which has since been proven to not be a thing.

Related, and this is something I have not looked into, but someone is getting really, really rich on testing in the US.  Anyone know who?

Someone got really rich off the statin I take.  Therefore I'm not taking it anymore.  That'll show 'em. 

I said "generally."

But reactionaries gonna reactionary (*and of course, spread a little misinformation while they're at it).