Black Lives Matter

brianlux said:

what dreams said:

static111 said:

what dreams said:

A thought provoking rebuke of the issue of American racism as it is currently being framed

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/09/06/1619-s06.html

That read was very confusing.  I came out of it feeling like someone was trying very hard to say well slavery wasn’t so bad they abused poor white people too and we didn’t invent the slavery it existed in Africa anyways.  Kind of a sorry not sorry way of trying to wash the hands of the blame of slavery and racism. Reminds me of a talk I had on a jobsite once where someone was telling me that his Irish ancestors actually had it worse than slaves but nobody talks about that....I think somewhere in the article it says racism didn’t cause slavery, slavery caused racism, except there was racism long before slavery in the US.  I feel like I just listened to a hand dryer blow for 10 minutes.  Thanks for the read anyways

I disagree with your take on it. During my college and grad school years, I read enough of the primary sources that the historians in the article discuss to know it is absolutely true that Africans (particularly North Africans) freely participated in court life during the Middle Ages and the Italian Renaissance. There was an extensive free commercial trade with North Africa during that time. Racism, if it existed at all as a concept, was in the form of wondering about the "exotic other" as explorers increasingly interacted with them. The Moors, aka North Africans, actually controlled much of Spain during the Middle Ages. In the  English Renaissance, one of Shakespeare's great tragic heros -- Othello -- was a Moor, a North African. Much has been written about race in Shakespeare's plays, because Othello was not the singular character of African descent featured in his plays. They were not slave characters, except for Caliban in the Tempest, and he is of Caribbean descent and depending on how you interpret the language at the end of the play, Prospero frees him.

The idea of race was not legally codified in the Virginia colony until decades after that 1619 ship *accidentally* arrived, and those first "slaves" in 1619, were actually treated as indentured servants and freed after their seven year period, the same way every indentured servant was. There was a small community of free black people living in Virginia throughout the 17th century until the plantation system took hold, the Triangular Trade Route was established, and the laws began to change to exploit the need for labor. It was only after that time that you begin to see in the primary documents the devaluing of human life and the escalation of cruelty that we now think of with slavery. In the words of Frederick Douglass himself (actually a terrible paraphrase), the institution of slavery works on the mind of the master as much as it works on the mind of the slave. The authors of this article are not the first to posit that racism as a concept was a result of slavery, not the cause of it. I've seen it in the historical research of the period, I've actually quoted it in papers I wrote, and I've looked specifically at the evolution of the language of the Virginia Code with my own eyes.

The authors of this article are not disputing that slavery for Africans was horrible. They are disputing the way the author of the 1619 Project is trying to make it seem like racism is a permanent, innate feature of being white, absent of historical context of the way slavery, emancipation, and the fight for civil rights actually evolved in Europe and the Americas. The author is critiquing the way the capitalist elite power structures, since the dismantling of slavery, have used race as a way to divide the poor and working class who have more in common in their *current* oppression than the race theorists would have us believe (if you were got to the end of the article to see this). Neither view works well for any of us, black or white, and we need to be aware of it.

As someone who watched the movie Selma the other night with tears streaming down my face for a good portion of the movie, I am highly compassionate toward specific injustices carried out toward African Americans. I am not apologizing for being white, nor am I excusing away the resentments of others. I am just highly suspect of simplistic "us versus them, good versus evil" arguments about what is right and what is wrong. On June 10, I attended a seminar with a prominent African American educator who asked the very question: Do the young people on the streets even know their own history? Have we taught them that history? This article just asks that same question in a different way, and suggests the current way the 1619 Project is framing history is just flat out wrong.

Fascinating and educating post. what dreams, thanks!

nicknyr15 said:

Bentleyspop said:

I'll  leave this here....

https://twitter.com/4TheCulture____/status/1274903974114721793?s=19

What are the police supposed to do, let them beat her up? I understand the point that this lady sucks but what does the police protecting her have to do with anything? 

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

PJPOWER said:

tempo_n_groove said:

PJPOWER said:

DarthMaeglin said:

tbergs said:

Well this is fucked up as all hell.

NASCAR says noose found in Wallace's garage https://www.espn.com/racing/nascar/story/_/id/29345568/nascar-says-noose-found-bubba-wallace-garage-talladega

I just posted this in the nascar thread, good response from Wallace I thought. Disgusting.

This kind of stuff is so frustrating.  It’s almost like you need to wait a few days before believing any article the media puts out. 

https://mobile.twitter.com/NASCAR/status/1275542920972689409?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1275542920972689409&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.newschannel10.com%2F2020%2F06%2F23%2Ffbi-noose-bubba-wallaces-garage-there-since%2F

So all of this shit stiring was due to a freaking garage door pull rope...just wow...

I know that nascar probably has its fair share of racism, but this “noose” was not an example of it.

What wasn't to believe?  A crew member, not Wallace saw the rope and given the climate, thought it was done on purpose towards Bubba.  NASCAR was quick to have an investigation.

The FBI came in and found it to be there since last year and was not meant as a racial gesture.

I am glad it was nothing.  I'm glad that the WHOLE NASCAR TEAMS rallied around Bubba Wallace.  I am glad that NASCAR had the FBI due their due diligence quickly.

I guess it’s just annoying that so many jumped to conclusions...over nothing...like the media is so hell bent on getting a story about racism that they don’t even attempt investigative journalism.

Not a lot to investigate as NASCAR had the FBI do it for them.

Usually I would agree with you but this to me was handled right.

I also follow NASCAR so I didn't get any info from any other source about this as I can only imagine what it was like from other news outlets.

I haven’t seen pictures of the noose. Was it tied like a real noose, or just a loop?

Also, why did it warrant FBI to investigate? If it was meant for Bubba, yes that’s horrible. But couldn’t local police investigate first? Or, even better, NASCAR take 10 minutes to ask some questions and probably would have learned it had been there almost a year and maybe longer.

Seems like the natural progression would be for NASCAR to to a little digging within. Then reach out to local police if needed, then they ask for FBI assistance if needed. I’m guessing because of the publicity they skipped all that, but there’s a reason to not immediately jump and send 15 federal agents.

A county in Oregon has issued an order requiring face masks to be worn in public but has exempted nonwhite people over fears of racism.

Health officials in Lincoln County, Oregon, which is inhabited by roughly 50,000 people, issued the order for any situation in which individuals might come within 6 feet of another person, but “heightened concerns about racial profiling and harassment” mean that nonwhite people aren’t required to abide by the rule, according to the New York Post.

The decision to exempt nonwhite people from wearing masks comes as some have attempted to make the case that minorities are in danger when required to wear masks.

“For many black people, deciding whether or not to wear a bandana in public to protect themselves and others from contracting coronavirus is a lose-lose situation that can result in life-threatening consequences either way,” American Civil Liberties Union Racial Justice Program Director ReNika Moore said to CNN in April. 

An article published by Stat News in early June displayed the headline: “‘Which death do they choose?’: Many Black men fear wearing a mask more than the coronavirus.”

“When the CDC issued guidelines in early March asking people to wear masks to prevent the spread of coronavirus, the question for many Black men was not where to get a mask or which kind,” the article said. “It was: How do I cover my face and not get shot?”

California, Oregon’s neighbor to the south, recently imposed a similar rule, with Democratic Gov. Gavin Newsom mandating that face masks be worn in public places, which has resulted in pushback from many residents, and some officials have said they won’t enforce the rule. 

Ledbetterman10 said:

lol, let's be racist out of fear of racism. What the fuck?

Oregon county imposes face mask requirement targeting only white people, minorities exempt over racism fears

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/oregon-county-imposes-face-mask-requirement-targeting-only-white-people-minorities-exempt-over-racism-fear

A county in Oregon has issued an order requiring face masks to be worn in public but has exempted nonwhite people over fears of racism.

Health officials in Lincoln County, Oregon, which is inhabited by roughly 50,000 people, issued the order for any situation in which individuals might come within 6 feet of another person, but “heightened concerns about racial profiling and harassment” mean that nonwhite people aren’t required to abide by the rule, according to the New York Post.

The decision to exempt nonwhite people from wearing masks comes as some have attempted to make the case that minorities are in danger when required to wear masks.

“For many black people, deciding whether or not to wear a bandana in public to protect themselves and others from contracting coronavirus is a lose-lose situation that can result in life-threatening consequences either way,” American Civil Liberties Union Racial Justice Program Director ReNika Moore said to CNN in April. 

An article published by Stat News in early June displayed the headline: “‘Which death do they choose?’: Many Black men fear wearing a mask more than the coronavirus.”

“When the CDC issued guidelines in early March asking people to wear masks to prevent the spread of coronavirus, the question for many Black men was not where to get a mask or which kind,” the article said. “It was: How do I cover my face and not get shot?”

California, Oregon’s neighbor to the south, recently imposed a similar rule, with Democratic Gov. Gavin Newsom mandating that face masks be worn in public places, which has resulted in pushback from many residents, and some officials have said they won’t enforce the rule. 

Thanks for making a complex situation worse, COVID-19. 

Ledbetterman10 said:

brianlux said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

lol, let's be racist out of fear of racism. What the fuck?

Oregon county imposes face mask requirement targeting only white people, minorities exempt over racism fears

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/oregon-county-imposes-face-mask-requirement-targeting-only-white-people-minorities-exempt-over-racism-fear

A county in Oregon has issued an order requiring face masks to be worn in public but has exempted nonwhite people over fears of racism.

Health officials in Lincoln County, Oregon, which is inhabited by roughly 50,000 people, issued the order for any situation in which individuals might come within 6 feet of another person, but “heightened concerns about racial profiling and harassment” mean that nonwhite people aren’t required to abide by the rule, according to the New York Post.

The decision to exempt nonwhite people from wearing masks comes as some have attempted to make the case that minorities are in danger when required to wear masks.

“For many black people, deciding whether or not to wear a bandana in public to protect themselves and others from contracting coronavirus is a lose-lose situation that can result in life-threatening consequences either way,” American Civil Liberties Union Racial Justice Program Director ReNika Moore said to CNN in April. 

An article published by Stat News in early June displayed the headline: “‘Which death do they choose?’: Many Black men fear wearing a mask more than the coronavirus.”

“When the CDC issued guidelines in early March asking people to wear masks to prevent the spread of coronavirus, the question for many Black men was not where to get a mask or which kind,” the article said. “It was: How do I cover my face and not get shot?”

California, Oregon’s neighbor to the south, recently imposed a similar rule, with Democratic Gov. Gavin Newsom mandating that face masks be worn in public places, which has resulted in pushback from many residents, and some officials have said they won’t enforce the rule. 

On the surface, I admit this looks like another example over over-blown attempts to be politically correct.  But then you get to the part where it says, the question for many Black men was not where to get a mask or which kind,” the article said. “It was: How do I cover my face and not get shot?”, then it makes sense assuming that means "If I'm black and I cover my mace someone may think I'm a robber and might shoot me."  I don't know how likely that is, but I'm not black so I don't know how fearful I would be wearing a mask if I were black.

Thanks for making a complex situation worse, COVID-19. 

That might be fair enough. I mean, it looks like that's what happened to Elijah McClain (who I posted about in the Police Abuse thread). He was wearing a mask because he lived in Colorado and had sickle-cell, and it appears the mask is what made him look "suspicious."

tbergs said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

This is what he should've said yesterday rather than going on Don Lemon and continuing to play the victim. Better late than never I guess....

https://twitter.com/BubbaWallace/status/1275844030144950272?s=20

I think in these times, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. If they don't say anything and it leaks out that a hate crime possibly occurred; it's a cover-up, but if they report on it right away and it later turns out to be a misunderstanding, it's sensationalizing the issue before confirmation. Burned either way by one side.

F Me In The Brain said:

You knew some of the hee-haws were going to come out with their flag love