Black Lives Matter

static111

mcgruff10 said:

RYME said:

mcgruff10 said:

RYME said:

Well, do ALL black lives matter?  Or just the ones that advance leftism and anarchy?
Getting rid of Aunt Jemima pancakes, and tearing down statues shows that democrats are trying to erase their history asap before people catch on. Democrats don't want you to know about Andrew Jackson and why they want to get him off the $20 bill( founder of the Democratic Party (Trail of Tears Indian Killer and big time slave owner.  Founders and head of the KKK. ( Democrats)
There are a lot of black people that do not want history erased.
https://youtu.be/wR2lK36Tc4M

FYI: the parties switched right around the passage of the civil rights act of 1964.  So the democrats you mention from the late 1800s are today’s Republicans  and the party of Lincoln are today s Democrats.   
And robert e lee didn’t even want statues; I m not following how we erase history by taking down statues.  
 I m not sure if taking down these statues will have the desired effect everyone is looking for but I am also not a person of color so I am not sure how it affects them.  

ALL BLACK LIVES MATTER, not just some.
FYI: "the parties switched right around the passage of the civil rights act of 1964.  So the democrats you mention from the late 1800s are today’s Republicans  and the party of Lincoln are today s Democrats."  Ok well then,  the Earth is flat, water flows uphill and the moon is made out of cheese.  
That is revisionist history and total LIES. Huge gargantuan lies and false crap!  That is why most of todays colleges are cesspools of disinformation.
Lincoln, Reagan, and Trump are the same party.  
Sorry but youve been lied to.  That is why it's almost impossible to have conversations these days.  Southern Democrats were the Confederacy, and today's Democrats are still the oppressors.
Sorry, but You can't just flip a switch in 1964 for convenience purposes, sorry the Democratic partie owns its long bloody history.  That is very inconvenient for lefties to overcome.  That's why they want to erase it. 
And by the way, nothing has changed much, look what goes on in all the major cities run by democrats for the last 50-100+ years how's it going there?  

You are telling me with a straight face that during the civil rights movement  the parties, especially southern democrats, didn’t switch?
And you honestly think the parties of Lincoln and Trump are the same? What similarities do you see between the two?
and yes southern democrats did create the KKK, no one is trying to rewrite history (where does that even come from?)

Can you go full on history teacher here?  I know a decent amount about the last major party shift around the civil rights act but not enough.  Well enough to know that it is information nowhere near flat earth territory. I have only really been spending time on AMT for a couple months, really expected better from people that pay to be part of a politically active bands message board....

mcgruff10

Halifax2TheMax said:

NVM

You listening to it on vinyl? I always preferred in utero.  

mcgruff10

@static111 here is some summer reading for you:  https://www.history.com/news/how-the-party-of-lincoln-won-over-the-once-democratic-south

static111

mcgruff10 said:

@static111 here is some summer reading for you:  https://www.history.com/news/how-the-party-of-lincoln-won-over-the-once-democratic-south

Thanks!  

static111

mcgruff10 said:

@static111 here is some summer reading for you:  https://www.history.com/news/how-the-party-of-lincoln-won-over-the-once-democratic-south

@mcgruff10 just finished reading.  Thanks. Maybe @RYME will read this informative piece?

mcgruff10

@static111 no problem bud.  I m glad you read the article and learned a little.  

Matts3221

mcgruff10 said:

@static111 no problem bud.  I m glad you read the article and learned a little.  

+1

dankind

Racial injustice in the modern music industry.

The modern music industry is built almost entirely on Black art. The wealth that rightfully belonged to Black artists was stolen outright and to this day continues to grow outside their communities. No one artist could come close to paying the debt we owe to the Black originators of our modern music and their children and grandchildren. As an individual I have recognized the unfairness of the life I live in relation to the deprivation of people whose work mine is but a shadow of. I’ve tried to compensate for those inequities in both my public and private life. It hasn’t been enough. I’ve often thought there should be an industry-wide plan to address this enormous injustice. Considering that our business prides itself on its progressive ideals and commitments to social justice, I’ve waited, thinking we would eventually put some type of sustained tithing in place — some initiative that would allow us all to redirect a portion of our revenue to the communities that have been deprived of it. I’ve resisted being the one to initiate such a plan for reasons I find unpersuasive now. I feel it’s important to pledge my personal commitment to paying this debt, and to publicly ask every one of my peers to work toward doing the same. What I propose going forward is a program that allows songwriters and musicians to direct a percentage of their “writer’s share” revenue to organizations that assist and support Black communities. This could take the shape of a box to check on rights management contracts, putting it at the foundation of our business. Or it could take another shape entirely. I don’t possess the expertise to manifest this initiative, but I can begin to do my part by committing 5% of my writer revenue to organizations that are working toward racial justice, which include but are not limited to Movement for Black Lives and Black Women’s Blueprint. To BMI, ASCAP, SESAC, and all other organizations that collect and disburse songwriter’s royalties, I ask you to please investigate a way to implement such a program. To industry leaders: please join me in forming a coalition. My small contribution alone is a sincere but insufficient gesture. Hundreds of us joining together could provide some tremendous relief. Thousands of us committing to a reparations initiative could change our business and the world we live in. Black Lives Matter. Thank you.  - Jeff Tweedy

brianlux

dankind said:

Racial injustice in the modern music industry.

The modern music industry is built almost entirely on Black art. The wealth that rightfully belonged to Black artists was stolen outright and to this day continues to grow outside their communities. No one artist could come close to paying the debt we owe to the Black originators of our modern music and their children and grandchildren. As an individual I have recognized the unfairness of the life I live in relation to the deprivation of people whose work mine is but a shadow of. I’ve tried to compensate for those inequities in both my public and private life. It hasn’t been enough. I’ve often thought there should be an industry-wide plan to address this enormous injustice. Considering that our business prides itself on its progressive ideals and commitments to social justice, I’ve waited, thinking we would eventually put some type of sustained tithing in place — some initiative that would allow us all to redirect a portion of our revenue to the communities that have been deprived of it. I’ve resisted being the one to initiate such a plan for reasons I find unpersuasive now. I feel it’s important to pledge my personal commitment to paying this debt, and to publicly ask every one of my peers to work toward doing the same. What I propose going forward is a program that allows songwriters and musicians to direct a percentage of their “writer’s share” revenue to organizations that assist and support Black communities. This could take the shape of a box to check on rights management contracts, putting it at the foundation of our business. Or it could take another shape entirely. I don’t possess the expertise to manifest this initiative, but I can begin to do my part by committing 5% of my writer revenue to organizations that are working toward racial justice, which include but are not limited to Movement for Black Lives and Black Women’s Blueprint. To BMI, ASCAP, SESAC, and all other organizations that collect and disburse songwriter’s royalties, I ask you to please investigate a way to implement such a program. To industry leaders: please join me in forming a coalition. My small contribution alone is a sincere but insufficient gesture. Hundreds of us joining together could provide some tremendous relief. Thousands of us committing to a reparations initiative could change our business and the world we live in. Black Lives Matter. Thank you.  - Jeff Tweedy

An interesting idea that brings up the touchy subject of reparations.  It seem so to me a lot of well meaning people (and I don't mean Mr. Tweedy- I like his idea of supporting fair management contracts for blacks or righting other inequities in towards black in the music industry), people who good hearts and are generous but who believe that simple giving money is going to make a difference in black lives.  It actually takes a good deal of research to make sure dollars are actually helping people (or in the case of environmental issue- the plant.  I've stopped giving money to a number of environmental organizations that are top heavy and spend far too much money on infrastructure and not enough on actually accomplishing something beneficial to the planet.)

I am in favor of supporting organizations that work toward the betterment of underprivileged people who are victims of prejudice and discrimination.  But I'm more interested in that whole concept of "Give a person a fish, and you feed them for a day. Teach a person to fish, and they learn to feed themselves for a lifetime."  But I think there has to be a better saying than this because that one implies "whites as saviors" syndrome.  But hopefully  the point I'm trying to make with my addled old brain is coming across well enough.

joseph33

cincybearcat said:

hedonist said:

Some of this is ridiculous. Educate by embarrassing, no exceptions. Because belittling someone really opens that door to learning, to another’s view. 

If you feel someone doesn’t “get it”, how is berating them going to help? Would you want to try to learn that way?

It doesn’t. But just like the people that like to carry guns around it makes them feel superior. They do it for themselves, not for any cause.

Not a gun guy I take it?

what dreams

A thought provoking rebuke of the issue of American racism as it is currently being framed

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/09/06/1619-s06.html

static111

what dreams said:

A thought provoking rebuke of the issue of American racism as it is currently being framed

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/09/06/1619-s06.html

That read was very confusing.  I came out of it feeling like someone was trying very hard to say well slavery wasn’t so bad they abused poor white people too and we didn’t invent the slavery it existed in Africa anyways.  Kind of a sorry not sorry way of trying to wash the hands of the blame of slavery and racism. Reminds me of a talk I had on a jobsite once where someone was telling me that his Irish ancestors actually had it worse than slaves but nobody talks about that....I think somewhere in the article it says racism didn’t cause slavery, slavery caused racism, except there was racism long before slavery in the US.  I feel like I just listened to a hand dryer blow for 10 minutes.  Thanks for the read anyways

what dreams

static111 said:

what dreams said:

A thought provoking rebuke of the issue of American racism as it is currently being framed

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/09/06/1619-s06.html

That read was very confusing.  I came out of it feeling like someone was trying very hard to say well slavery wasn’t so bad they abused poor white people too and we didn’t invent the slavery it existed in Africa anyways.  Kind of a sorry not sorry way of trying to wash the hands of the blame of slavery and racism. Reminds me of a talk I had on a jobsite once where someone was telling me that his Irish ancestors actually had it worse than slaves but nobody talks about that....I think somewhere in the article it says racism didn’t cause slavery, slavery caused racism, except there was racism long before slavery in the US.  I feel like I just listened to a hand dryer blow for 10 minutes.  Thanks for the read anyways

I disagree with your take on it. During my college and grad school years, I read enough of the primary sources that the historians in the article discuss to know it is absolutely true that Africans (particularly North Africans) freely participated in court life during the Middle Ages and the Italian Renaissance. There was an extensive free commercial trade with North Africa during that time. Racism, if it existed at all as a concept, was in the form of wondering about the "exotic other" as explorers increasingly interacted with them. The Moors, aka North Africans, actually controlled much of Spain during the Middle Ages. In the  English Renaissance, one of Shakespeare's great tragic heros -- Othello -- was a Moor, a North African [edit:MARRIED to a WHITE woman, the daughter of a wealthy Venetian}. Much has been written about race in Shakespeare's plays, because Othello was not the singular character of African descent featured in his plays. They were not slave characters, except for Caliban in the Tempest, and he is of Caribbean descent and depending on how you interpret the language at the end of the play, Prospero frees him.

The idea of race was not legally codified in the Virginia colony until decades after that 1619 ship *accidentally* arrived, and those first "slaves" in 1619, were actually treated as indentured servants and freed after their seven year period, the same way every indentured servant was. There was a small community of free black people living in Virginia throughout the 17th century until the plantation system took hold, the Triangular Trade Route was established, and the laws began to change to exploit the need for labor. It was only after that time that you begin to see in the primary documents the devaluing of human life and the escalation of cruelty that we now think of with slavery. In the words of Frederick Douglass himself (actually a terrible paraphrase), the institution of slavery works on the mind of the master as much as it works on the mind of the slave. The authors of this article are not the first to posit that racism as a concept was a result of slavery, not the cause of it. I've seen it in the historical research of the period, I've actually quoted it in papers I wrote, and I've looked specifically at the evolution of the language of the Virginia Code with my own eyes.

The authors of this article are not disputing that slavery for Africans was horrible. They are disputing the way the author of the 1619 Project is trying to make it seem like racism is a permanent, innate feature of being white, absent of historical context of the way slavery, emancipation, and the fight for civil rights actually evolved in Europe and the Americas. The author is critiquing the way the capitalist elite power structures, since the dismantling of slavery, have used race as a way to divide the poor and working class who have more in common in their *current* oppression than the race theorists would have us believe (if you were got to the end of the article to see this). Neither view works well for any of us, black or white, and we need to be aware of it.

As someone who watched the movie Selma the other night with tears streaming down my face for a good portion of the movie, I am highly compassionate toward specific injustices carried out toward African Americans. I am not apologizing for being white, nor am I excusing away the resentments of others. I am just highly suspect of simplistic "us versus them, good versus evil" arguments about what is right and what is wrong. On June 10, I attended a seminar with a prominent African American educator who asked the very question: Do the young people on the streets even know their own history? Have we taught them that history? This article just asks that same question in a different way, and suggests the current way the 1619 Project is framing history is just flat out wrong.

brianlux

what dreams said:

static111 said:

what dreams said:

A thought provoking rebuke of the issue of American racism as it is currently being framed

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/09/06/1619-s06.html

That read was very confusing.  I came out of it feeling like someone was trying very hard to say well slavery wasn’t so bad they abused poor white people too and we didn’t invent the slavery it existed in Africa anyways.  Kind of a sorry not sorry way of trying to wash the hands of the blame of slavery and racism. Reminds me of a talk I had on a jobsite once where someone was telling me that his Irish ancestors actually had it worse than slaves but nobody talks about that....I think somewhere in the article it says racism didn’t cause slavery, slavery caused racism, except there was racism long before slavery in the US.  I feel like I just listened to a hand dryer blow for 10 minutes.  Thanks for the read anyways

I disagree with your take on it. During my college and grad school years, I read enough of the primary sources that the historians in the article discuss to know it is absolutely true that Africans (particularly North Africans) freely participated in court life during the Middle Ages and the Italian Renaissance. There was an extensive free commercial trade with North Africa during that time. Racism, if it existed at all as a concept, was in the form of wondering about the "exotic other" as explorers increasingly interacted with them. The Moors, aka North Africans, actually controlled much of Spain during the Middle Ages. In the  English Renaissance, one of Shakespeare's great tragic heros -- Othello -- was a Moor, a North African. Much has been written about race in Shakespeare's plays, because Othello was not the singular character of African descent featured in his plays. They were not slave characters, except for Caliban in the Tempest, and he is of Caribbean descent and depending on how you interpret the language at the end of the play, Prospero frees him.

The idea of race was not legally codified in the Virginia colony until decades after that 1619 ship *accidentally* arrived, and those first "slaves" in 1619, were actually treated as indentured servants and freed after their seven year period, the same way every indentured servant was. There was a small community of free black people living in Virginia throughout the 17th century until the plantation system took hold, the Triangular Trade Route was established, and the laws began to change to exploit the need for labor. It was only after that time that you begin to see in the primary documents the devaluing of human life and the escalation of cruelty that we now think of with slavery. In the words of Frederick Douglass himself (actually a terrible paraphrase), the institution of slavery works on the mind of the master as much as it works on the mind of the slave. The authors of this article are not the first to posit that racism as a concept was a result of slavery, not the cause of it. I've seen it in the historical research of the period, I've actually quoted it in papers I wrote, and I've looked specifically at the evolution of the language of the Virginia Code with my own eyes.

The authors of this article are not disputing that slavery for Africans was horrible. They are disputing the way the author of the 1619 Project is trying to make it seem like racism is a permanent, innate feature of being white, absent of historical context of the way slavery, emancipation, and the fight for civil rights actually evolved in Europe and the Americas. The author is critiquing the way the capitalist elite power structures, since the dismantling of slavery, have used race as a way to divide the poor and working class who have more in common in their *current* oppression than the race theorists would have us believe (if you were got to the end of the article to see this). Neither view works well for any of us, black or white, and we need to be aware of it.

As someone who watched the movie Selma the other night with tears streaming down my face for a good portion of the movie, I am highly compassionate toward specific injustices carried out toward African Americans. I am not apologizing for being white, nor am I excusing away the resentments of others. I am just highly suspect of simplistic "us versus them, good versus evil" arguments about what is right and what is wrong. On June 10, I attended a seminar with a prominent African American educator who asked the very question: Do the young people on the streets even know their own history? Have we taught them that history? This article just asks that same question in a different way, and suggests the current way the 1619 Project is framing history is just flat out wrong.

Fascinating and educating post. what dreams, thanks!

Bentleyspop

I'll  leave this here....

https://twitter.com/4TheCulture____/status/1274903974114721793?s=19

nicknyr15

Bentleyspop said:

I'll  leave this here....

https://twitter.com/4TheCulture____/status/1274903974114721793?s=19

What are the police supposed to do, let them beat her up? I understand the point that this lady sucks but what does the police protecting her have to do with anything? 

brianlux

Bentleyspop said:

I'll  leave this here....

https://twitter.com/4TheCulture____/status/1274903974114721793?s=19

"I will teach my grand-kids to hate you all."

Oh yeah?  Idiots. 

PJPOWER

DarthMaeglin said:

tbergs said:

Well this is fucked up as all hell.

NASCAR says noose found in Wallace's garage https://www.espn.com/racing/nascar/story/_/id/29345568/nascar-says-noose-found-bubba-wallace-garage-talladega

I just posted this in the nascar thread, good response from Wallace I thought. Disgusting.

This kind of stuff is so frustrating.  It’s almost like you need to wait a few days before believing any article the media puts out. 

https://mobile.twitter.com/NASCAR/status/1275542920972689409?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1275542920972689409&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.newschannel10.com%2F2020%2F06%2F23%2Ffbi-noose-bubba-wallaces-garage-there-since%2F

So all of this shit stiring was due to a freaking garage door pull rope...just wow...

I know that nascar probably has its fair share of racism, but this “noose” was not an example of it.

tempo_n_groove

PJPOWER said:

DarthMaeglin said:

tbergs said:

Well this is fucked up as all hell.

NASCAR says noose found in Wallace's garage https://www.espn.com/racing/nascar/story/_/id/29345568/nascar-says-noose-found-bubba-wallace-garage-talladega

I just posted this in the nascar thread, good response from Wallace I thought. Disgusting.

This kind of stuff is so frustrating.  It’s almost like you need to wait a few days before believing any article the media puts out. 

https://mobile.twitter.com/NASCAR/status/1275542920972689409?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1275542920972689409&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.newschannel10.com%2F2020%2F06%2F23%2Ffbi-noose-bubba-wallaces-garage-there-since%2F

So all of this shit stiring was due to a freaking garage door pull rope...just wow...

I know that nascar probably has its fair share of racism, but this “noose” was not an example of it.

What wasn't to believe?  A crew member, not Wallace saw the rope and given the climate, thought it was done on purpose towards Bubba.  NASCAR was quick to have an investigation.

The FBI came in and found it to be there since last year and was not meant as a racial gesture.

I am glad it was nothing.  I'm glad that the WHOLE NASCAR TEAMS rallied around Bubba Wallace.  I am glad that NASCAR had the FBI due their due diligence quickly.

PJPOWER

tempo_n_groove said:

PJPOWER said:

DarthMaeglin said:

tbergs said:

Well this is fucked up as all hell.

NASCAR says noose found in Wallace's garage https://www.espn.com/racing/nascar/story/_/id/29345568/nascar-says-noose-found-bubba-wallace-garage-talladega

I just posted this in the nascar thread, good response from Wallace I thought. Disgusting.

This kind of stuff is so frustrating.  It’s almost like you need to wait a few days before believing any article the media puts out. 

https://mobile.twitter.com/NASCAR/status/1275542920972689409?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1275542920972689409&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.newschannel10.com%2F2020%2F06%2F23%2Ffbi-noose-bubba-wallaces-garage-there-since%2F

So all of this shit stiring was due to a freaking garage door pull rope...just wow...

I know that nascar probably has its fair share of racism, but this “noose” was not an example of it.

What wasn't to believe?  A crew member, not Wallace saw the rope and given the climate, thought it was done on purpose towards Bubba.  NASCAR was quick to have an investigation.

The FBI came in and found it to be there since last year and was not meant as a racial gesture.

I am glad it was nothing.  I'm glad that the WHOLE NASCAR TEAMS rallied around Bubba Wallace.  I am glad that NASCAR had the FBI due their due diligence quickly.

I guess it’s just annoying that so many jumped to conclusions...over nothing...like the media is so hell bent on getting a story about racism that they don’t even attempt investigative journalism.